Scottish Independence discussion area

anothernight

I'm surprised at how strongly some of the Irish people in this thread feel about the Scottish independence (or lack thereof..). I work with quite a few Scottish people. When we asked them how they felt about the referendum, their answer was along the lines of "meh..". Exceptions being one (really stupid) girl who thought Scotland should be independent because "look at Dublin and the amazing public transport system it has" , and a guy who was worried about becoming a foreigner in his own country and needing a visa to continue working here in England.

LorMal

BlibBlab wrote: »

I think people are too willing to run the country down. We're one of the most advanced, developed, least corrupt and happiest countries in the world according to several metrics. People look at the period after independence and say we failed, but conveniently forget the previous century which included war, slums and famine. We got our independence after ww1 and a war of independence and civil war just before the Depression and ww2, which was always going to be tough. Could things have been done better? Definitely, but we had a tough time of it. And while I disagree with us staying neutral for the duration of ww2, getting bombed to bits wouldn't have done much for us either.

Depends on who you are comparing us with. Definitely less corrupt and more developed than most third world nations.
How do we fare against other European neighbours? We are more corrupt, less developed (mostly), hugely more in debt, poorer Heath service and public service in general.
We are doing okay - our advance was slowed by lousy politicians and the drag of the Catholic Church. I am not trying to disrespect or put us down.. We have great attributes as a nation. But, I am not at all surprised by this outcome as many are on here. As if they had the opportunity to enter the paradise of independence and blew it. It ain't that comfortable as a small independent nation on the periphery of Europe beholden to Berlin.

Billy86

Wurzelbert wrote: »

i mean that in general and in any country

But that's what people used to say about under 30s and under 21s, which has not proven to be the case. I actually think the younger voters acquitted themselves very well on this vote in terms of how they conducted themselves, and most reports had them as being surprisingly well informed and involved in the matter.

Berserker

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The conspiracy forum lads are going to love this!!

Didn't take long did it! It'll all be the Brits fault by lunch time tomorrow.

bnt wrote: »

with the possible exception of North Korea's - and so the issues of currencies, imports and exports, and fiscal policies need to be carefully examined and explained.

I agree with your point but just one point of note. North Korea economy isn't and wasn't standalone. They trade with Russia, China and get food etc by blackmailing the world using their 'nuclear arms'. When the old USSR and China stopped giving them trade (handouts), it resulted in a horrific famine in which millions died.

dlouth15

anothernight wrote: »

I work with quite a few Scottish people. When we asked them how they felt about the referendum, their answer was along the lines of "meh.."

Turnout was 84.5%. This does not suggest indifference among the Scottish people.

who the fug

dlouth15 wrote: »

Turnout was 84.5%. This does not suggest indifference among the Scottish people.

The indifference being south of Hadrians wall by some Scottish expats

anothernight

dlouth15 wrote: »

Turnout was 84.5%. This does not suggest indifference among the Scottish people.

I should have mentioned that my coworkers were happy to get to vote in a referendum, for some reason. But at least they (small sample size and all) weren't particularly bothered about the actual outcome. The girl I mentioned was the only one who seemed in any way passionate about it, and who made us sit through her ranting against the UK government (to an audience of mostly English people!).

Berserker

dlouth15 wrote: »

Turnout was 84.5%. This does not suggest indifference among the Scottish people.

Yep, it was most certainly a fantastic success when it came to getting people engaged in politics. It was the least 'Meh-ish' competitive referendum I can ever recall in this part of the world.

who the fug wrote: »

The indifference being south of Hadrians wall by some Scottish expats

Theres a town in the Northern part of England, can't remember the name, where lots of Scottish people moved to and they were very interested in it, even though most of them couldn't vote. I think the a huge majority of Scottish people around the world paid attention to the referendum.

porsche959

pablomakaveli wrote: »

A lot of people starting to show their true colours on this thread. I think there was a lot of people on this site who wanted a Yes vote just to stick it to the UK and that they didn't really give a **** about Scotland. Evidenced by the people openly mocking the Scots for not making the decision these posters wanted.

As much as people like to think it is, independence isn't always the way forward. It worked for us eventually but there was a lot of painful years before it did. The Scots obviously feel like this isn't the right time for them. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Meh. People have looked at the demographic analysis provided by one of the polling companies and drawn their conclusions, that's all.

Fact is if it wasn't for the over 65's it would have passed. The same age cohort probably those most likely to read and pay attention to scaremongering and "wrap the Union Jack around me" propaganda from the likes of the Telegraph and the Mail.

Dozen Wicked Words

Berserker wrote: »

Theres a town in the Northern part of England, can't remember the name, where lots of Scottish people moved to and they were very interested in it, even though most of them couldn't vote. I think the a huge majority of Scottish people around the world paid attention to the referendum.

Town in England is in the East Midlands, not the North. Corby has a huge Scottish population and those descended from Scots because huge numbers moved down for the steel works. Definitely stirred up interest there.

LorMal

porsche959 wrote: »

Meh. People have looked at the demographic analysis provided by one of the polling companies and drawn their conclusions, that's all.

Fact is if it wasn't for the over 65's it would have passed. The same age cohort probably those most likely to read and pay attention to scaremongering and "wrap the Union Jack around me" propaganda from the likes of the Telegraph and the Mail.

Such disrespect for older people. Ever think that they might be a bit more strategic and wise than the youth?

tayto lover

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Maybe you could give me the answer to this please as I can't find it.

Has any country refused independence before?. Anywhere in the world?

cloud493

Has Australia not had a referendum on this before? Or something to do with Quebec in canada.

LorMal

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you could give me the answer to this please as I can't find it.

Has any country refused independence before?. Anywhere in the world?

We have been through this a few times here. See wikipedia

tayto lover

LorMal wrote: »

We have been through this a few times here. See wikipedia

What will I type in? Wimpish nations?

Grandpa Hassan

Piliger wrote: »

Exactly. That the Scottish people are so lacking in any self belief and self confidence and pride that they actually think that without the glorious English they are incapable of managing an economy. It's really really sad and a low point in the long and previously proud history of a nation.

That's some amount of projection there. That comment reflects more on you than the scots

Billy86

Breakdown of votes by age:

18 - 24: 51% YES
25 - 34: 59% YES
35 - 44: 53% YES
45 - 54: 52% YES
55 - 64: 58% NO
65+: 73% NO

To me, this is reflects poorly on the older generation. There are obviously closer/longer lasted connections with the UK amongst that group and other factors. However, this wasn't a referendum that divided the three typical different age brackets (e.g. a cannabis legalisation referendum would likely have a high byes vote in under 30s, a high no vote in over 60s, and a probable reasonably strong lean towards no for 31 - 59 year olds).

There were good arguments for both sides, and this was reflected the whole way up to the over 65s (and my guess is the 55-64 bracket is slanted somewhat by over 60s). Being the only age demographic with such a heavy slant in either direction really does make them look more susceptible to scare tactics and likely to vote in terms of self interest rather than the bigger picture.

I was more inclined to side with the YES crowd but didn't have a strong inclination in either direction since the impact on us is absolutely miniscule compared to what would have been for Scotland. But that is a very, very disappointing breakdown of how the votes went.

LorMal

tayto lover wrote: »

What will I type in? Wimpish nations?

'No chip on shoulder'

porsche959

LorMal wrote: »

Such disrespect for older people. Ever think that they might be a bit more strategic and wise than the youth?

Meh. Actually I'm pretty sure there is scientific evidence IQ declines with age, on average. The best scientists usually do their best research work under the age 40.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

kingchess

they do not seem too fond of each other in Glasgow now on sky news,a small stand off in progress they say.

LorMal

porsche959 wrote: »

Meh. Actually I'm pretty sure there is scientific evidence IQ declines with age, on average. The best scientists usually do their best research work under the age 40.

Nope.

tayto lover

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

"We do not want to run our own country and would prefer to be governed from London"

Never thought i'd see the day, cowardly nation.

tayto lover

LorMal wrote: »

'No chip on shoulder'

Braveheart maybe :pac:

LorMal

tayto lover wrote: »

Braveheart maybe :pac:

Ah, the Braveheart joke. Haven't seen this for almost 30 minutes on here.

A Dub in Glasgo

Here is the timetable & vow made to the Scottish people but is now being rolled back




The OO type brigade are now chasing Yes people off George Sq

tayto lover

LorMal wrote: »

Ah, the Braveheart joke. Haven't seen this for almost 30 minutes on here.

Is the Scottish national Anthem now officially "God Save the Queen"?

Donkey Oaty

tayto lover wrote: »

"We do not want to run our own country and would prefer to be governed from London"

Never thought i'd see the day, cowardly nation.

Or you could equally say: We do want to run our own affairs mostly, such as education, health, etc, and we would welcome increased powers to raise our own taxes, etc, but when it comes to international affairs, defence, promoting trade abroad, having a strong currency and such, we are much better being in a union with our English-speaking neighbours and having representatives in that government, or even one of our own as PM.

tayto lover

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Or you could equally say: We do want to run our own affairs mostly, such as education, health, etc, and we would welcome increased powers to raise our own taxes, etc, but when it comes to international affairs, defence, promoting trade abroad, having a strong currency and such, we are much better being in a union with our English-speaking neighbours and having representatives in that government, or even one of our own as PM.

Yes indeed. Cop out.

eeepaulo

porsche959 wrote: »

Meh. Actually I'm pretty sure there is scientific evidence IQ declines with age, on average. The best scientists usually do their best research work under the age 40.

Thats the opinion will take away from this referendum, it was a rational evidence based discussion, attempting to take into acount the possible eventualities. It really tested a persons reasoning ability.

Billy86

...and it appears in Glasgow they've confused the whole thing for a Celtic/Rangers cup final.

pablomakaveli

tayto lover wrote: »

"We do not want to run our own country and would prefer to be governed from London"

Never thought i'd see the day, cowardly nation.

I think having a go at the Scots on an internet forum because they didn't vote the way you want is pretty cowardly.

Tell us what your vested interest in an independent Scotland is since your so critical of them.

padd b1975

Billy86 wrote: »

Breakdown of votes by age:

18 - 24: 51% YES
25 - 34: 59% YES
35 - 44: 53% YES
45 - 54: 52% YES
55 - 64: 58% NO
65+: 73% NO

The grey vote, it really couldn't be clearer.

It's not what happens on social media that matters, it's all about the paper and pencil.

tayto lover

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I think having a go at the Scots on an internet forum because they didn't vote the way you want is pretty cowardly.

Tell us what your vested interest in an independent Scotland is since your so critical of them.

I have read a lot of Scottish history.
I'd say some of the heroes of Scotland's past are spinning in their graves.
At least there should be a rise in the labour force as they may now have to take down Hadrian's Wall.

I have no connections except for a few distant relatives living there however it was a cowardly vote in any man's language. Disappointed for the Yes campaigners who had dreams of seeing Scots running Scotland.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

"We do not want to run our own country and would prefer to be governed from London"

Never thought i'd see the day, cowardly nation.

Strange really, must be in the Irish psyche to assume that Scotland wants to break away from the UK, Scottish people have in the main had it good being part of the UK. The vote has proven that the majority want it to stay that way.

dundalkfc10

Billy86 wrote: »

...and it appears in Glasgow they've confused the whole thing for a Celtic/Rangers cup final.

What about the people in Glasgow who dont support Celtic or Sevco

Billy86

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

What about the people in Glasgow who dont support Celtic or Sevco

They're at home making milk and cookies.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange really, must be in the Irish psyche to assume that Scotland wants to break away from the UK, Scottish people have in the main had it good being part of the UK. The vote has proven that the majority want it to stay that way.

The pound is stronger than the heart obviously.

LorMal

tayto lover wrote: »

Is the Scottish national Anthem now officially "God Save the Queen"?

They don't have one. Maybe it should be '**** off and mind your own business'

tayto lover

LorMal wrote: »

They don't have one. Maybe it should be '**** off and mind your own business'

Or "Oh cowards of Scotland when will we see your likes again..."

pablomakaveli

tayto lover wrote: »

I have read a lot of Scottish history.
I'd say some of the heroes of Scotland's past are spinning in their graves.
At least there should be a rise in the labour force as they may now have to take down Hadrian's Wall.

I have no connections except for a few distant relatives living there however it was a cowardly vote in any man's language. Disappointed for the Yes campaigners who had dreams of seeing Scots running Scotland.

So little connection to Scotland then, meaning the outcome would have little effect on you and yet you still feel the need to have a go at them because you assume you know whats best for Scotland.

Who are you to have a go at them when you couldn't really give a **** about Scotland?

pablomakaveli

tayto lover wrote: »

The pound is stronger than the heart obviously.

People who vote purely with their heart are idiots.

Billy86

padd b1975 wrote: »

The grey vote, it really couldn't be clearer.

It's not what happens on social media that matters, it's all about the paper and pencil.

It really does look bad though given how even it was in every other age demographic. People have been talking about younger people's capacity to weigh up both sides in a vote, yet they were the closest out of everyone while their grandparents appear to have been the ones that were unable to do so and who we're most susceptible to media bias, scare tactics and self interest.

tayto lover

pablomakaveli wrote: »

So little connection to Scotland then, meaning the outcome would have little effect on you and yet you still feel the need to have a go at them because you assume you know whats best for Scotland.

Who are you to have a go at them when you couldn't really give a **** about Scotland?

Do you have to be Scottish to care or have an interest?
They deserve having a go at for refusing independence imo. Pathetic really.

tayto lover

pablomakaveli wrote: »

People who vote purely with their heart are idiots.

and people who vote through greed equally so.

Donkey Oaty

It was obviously a grave miscalculation on the SNP's part to allow the Scottish people to make the decision rather than allowing an AH poll to decide.

pablomakaveli

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you have to be Scottish to care or have an interest?
They deserve having a go at for refusing independence imo. Pathetic really.

You don't have to be Scottish to have an interest but your assuming you know whats best for Scotland and having a go at them because they voted differently.

Admit it. All you cared about was Scotland sticking it to the UK. You didn't get to see that and now you're throwing a strop and having a go at the Scots.

eeepaulo

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Who are you to have a go at them when you couldn't really give a **** about Scotland?

He read a few books about them, probably should have been allowed to vote .

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you have to be Scottish to care or have an interest?
They deserve having a go at for refusing independence imo. Pathetic really.

To use words like cowardly because people choose to vote based on how they feel the country should be now as opposed to how your books tell you the heroes of the past lived, do you think they should respect your opinion?

tayto lover

eeepaulo wrote: »

He read a few books about them, probably should have been allowed to vote .




To use words like cowardly because people choose to vote based on how they feel the country should be now as opposed to how your books tell you the heroes of the past lived, do you think they should respect your opinion?

Well we know what's under their kilts now and it ain't balls.

Basil Fawlty

There is a serious lack of respect from some people here towards the Scottish and their choice. If nothing else we should admire the conduct of all involved for carrying out a peaceful exercise. They have chosen to remain in the UK and I for one am happy with their choice, however had the vote went the other way I would have wished them well.

The Scottish are no cowards!