Scottish Independence discussion area

strongback

I was hoping for a yes vote as it would set up a good president for a vote on a united Ireland and for Welsh independence.

Economics didn't really come into it for me as the market always finds a way to reach some kind of equilibrium.

It's a bit too much of a generalisation to say money concerns were the big worry but then again this is a country that has inspired more than a joke or two about its citizens legendary tightness.

I suppose Scottish jokes about England will fall a bit flat in the future.

Lnaa

tayto lover wrote: »

The first few lines showed a lot of intelligence.:pac:

Its not An Phoblacht so I doubt you'll read it but...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29201541

https://bdaily.co.uk/entrepreneurship/19-09-2014/cry-for-devolution-of-power-to-manchester-sparked-by-scotlands-no-vote/

http://www.lgcplus.com/opinion/manchesters-ambition-illuminates-the-path-to-devolution/5074861.article?blocktitle=We-say...&contentID=2251

Lnaa

Yamanoto wrote: »

Rather than accepting that all Scots went out and voted with careful consideration and in good conscience, it sits more comfortably for the chuckys hereabouts to frame it in terms of gutlessness and obsequiousness on the part of the No side. It fits into their world view is of course, as how could anyone not see Britain as the malevolent pit of avarice, wickedness and slayer of puppies and kittens that it so clearly is.

The same yokes that hate England but wouldn't dream of wanting Ireland out of the EU? Yep, those yokes :rolleyes:.

tayto lover

Lnaa wrote: »

Its not An Phoblacht so I doubt you'll read it but...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29201541

https://bdaily.co.uk/entrepreneurship/19-09-2014/cry-for-devolution-of-power-to-manchester-sparked-by-scotlands-no-vote/

http://www.lgcplus.com/opinion/manchesters-ambition-illuminates-the-path-to-devolution/5074861.article?blocktitle=We-say...&contentID=2251

Never read An Phoblacht in my life.
Have a mind of my own too.

Galwayguy35

Lawlesz wrote: »

Some of the crap on here is unbelievable. Losing respect for Scotland, they bottled it etc.

Having lived there for a number of years (until April of this year) I have been following this closely. My two cents for what it is worth, is that Scottish Independence was never going to succeed. Salmonds 'crackpot' economic plan was never going to work. He was found out over and over again in his exaggeration of figures, uncertainty on currency, uncertainty on EU membership, the threats from the big businesses to pull out etc. He let his ego run away with him. He should have played the long game, held out for more guarantees than what he had. Going to the polls with so much uncertainty was suicidal. I know the UK government were not going to lie down and guarantee everything he wanted, but it seemed like he was happy to get the referendum at all, and make policy up as he went along. If he had have hung fire for a few more years, negotiated some concessions from the UKGOV and then went to the polls with a coherent plan (instead of the 'feck it lads, we'll be grand, trust me'), he might have had some chance.

You don't see parties like Sinn Fein (bad as they are) pushing for a United Ireland anymore; reason being A) they know we are f***ed and couldn't afford them, and the folks in the North are well enough off without joining a UI. I am sure when the circumstances are right and they know they have a very very good (almost certain) chance of winning, they will start pushing again. Adams will be long gone by the time that happens. Poor Wee Eck, bless him, couldn't stand to play the long game, and risk somebody else being 'the man who freed Scotland'.

Life in Scotland is not that bad, public transport is miles ahead of our own, free education, free health service. They really don't have it so bad, so for people here to claim they 'bottled it' shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation.

I have seen it the last few weeks, the Barstool Republican Brigade in Ireland, going on about Scottish Independence. For a lot of them, it was a no brainer; go ahead, f**k the English, get your freedom etc. How many of these actually done any reading on the subject? And now today, people on this thread 'losing respect' for Scottish people. 'They s**t themselves and voted no' etc. You can be patriotic and proud to be a Scot and still vote no. What is the point in voting YES for the sake of it, knowing in all likelihood they would be worse off than before? Romantic notions of patriotism doesn't put bread on the table.

Nobody s**t themselves, the Scottish people had an objective think about the situation and went with what they felt was right for them. The will of the people won out, and that's democracy for you. So for those of you who have 'lost respect', how about taking the blinkers off and admiring them for having the conviction to go with what they felt was right.

Sure we will have an opinion on it here, but tomorrow we will wake up in a free independant counrty and get on with our lives, you mention respect, at the moment it's nearly half the population that have lost respect for the other half.

Now that is a sad situation.

tayto lover

Lnaa wrote: »

The same yokes that hate England but wouldn't dream of wanting Ireland out of the EU? Yep, those yokes :rolleyes:.

yes when you're beaten for words throw stones :pac:

Lnaa

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

But I think Manchester will be bought off by investment. HS2 is a big deal for them. I am in business in London and people openly talk about the attractiveness of Manchester. I know a couple of major companies relocating people there. Ironically RBS is one, Manchester will do okay no matter what. It's the NE that will be screwed by English devolution

You could be right, I hope not. I do think Manchester has a pair big enough to want to run its own shop. That said, I think Liverpool is in bigger need of it than Manchester. I admit a certain north-west bias for personal reasons but I really hope something gets sorted.

I thought HS2 was only going to Birmingham though?

Lnaa

tayto lover wrote: »

yes when you're beaten for words throw stones :pac:

How exactly? By suggesting that demanding sovereignity on the one hand and letting it go with the other doesn't really make sense?

Galwayguy35

Lnaa wrote: »

As I said earlier, I wait with abaited breath for the armchair republicans to demand a referendum on EU membership. Wanting freedom from England on the one hand only to cede sovereignity to Brussels and Berlin on the other is shíttalk.

You might want to take a look back at the post I was quoting, it was in relation to our independance from British rule, not EU membership.

SharpshooterTom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think the referendum on eu membership will go the same way. The silent majority will come out and vote to stay in. Those that want change are always the most proactive.

Scottish independence was always highly energised. No one honestly gives a sh1t about the EU in the same way, you'll get bucket loads of people voting to leave it, but you wont get people queuing up outside polling stations so they vote to "STAY IN THE EU" lol.

If Middle England had one remaining political wish in the next 30 years it would be get the UK out of the EU, and I think they can do it.

porsche959

Yamanoto wrote: »

Rather than accepting that all Scots went out and voted with careful consideration and in good conscience, it sits more comfortably for the chuckys hereabouts to frame it in terms of gutlessness and obsequiousness on the part of the No side. It fits into their world view is of course, as how could anyone not see Britain as the malevolent pit of avarice, wickedness and slayer of puppies and kittens that it so clearly is.

Your implication that 45% of the Scots electorate, and those who support them internationally, are "chuckies", is disgraceful.

Aidric

Good night for currency trading all the same. :pac:

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RadioClydeNews

https://vine.co/v/OWPzrhni0Aj

Lnaa

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You might want to take a look back at the post I was quoting, it was in relation to our independance from British rule, not EU membership.

I know what it was in reference to. However, shouting down somebody for questioning Irish independence whilst there is an accepted situation of Irish independence resting largely in the hands of Brussels doesn't wash.

Grandpa Hassan

Lnaa wrote: »

You could be right, I hope not. I do think Manchester has a pair big enough to want to run its own shop. That said, I think Liverpool is in bigger need of it than Manchester. I admit a certain north-west bias for personal reasons but I really hope something gets sorted.

I thought HS2 was only going to Birmingham though?

Liverpool will benefit from Manchester investment. Looked at as a Manchester / Liverpool region. The connection is phase 2, but that's what business is looking to. Not much interest in Birmingham....HS2 is ultimately about Manchester, whatever the government says. They are also very well connected by air.

But I agree if Manchester does not lead a regional devolution drive, it's not going to happen. And it will be English devolution centered in Westminster. To the detriment of the north

Lnaa

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Liverpool will benefit from Manchester investment. Looked at as a Manchester / Liverpool region. The connection is phase 2, but that's what business is looking to. Not much interest in Birmingham....HS2 is ultimately about Manchester, whatever the government says. They are also very well connected by air.

But I agree if Manchester does not lead a regional devolution drive, it's not going to happen. And it will be English devolution centered in Westminster. To the detriment of the north

Liverpool may get the scraps that Manchester doesn't want, but it won't become what it should be unless it runs its own affairs. Newcastle, as you say, is probably in a more precarious situation but I don't know the north-east like I do the north-west. I really do believe Manchester, and even more so, Liverpool deserve better than they have at the moment.

Also, a devolved England could turn out to be the dog that bites the Tories' @rse. If England does get devolution, it will be Tory dominated, completely and utterly. Neither Manchester nor Liverpool would be happy with that situation. Those two cities are arguably redder than Scotland and Wales.

tayto lover

"I am William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen,
here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And
free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?"
"Two thousand against ten?" - the veteran shouted. "No! We will
run - and live!"
"Yes!" Wallace shouted back. "Fight and you may die. Run and you
will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for
one chance, just one cahnce, to come back here as young men and tell
our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take
our freedom!"

cloud493

Yeah, alright :rolleyes:

Grandpa Hassan

Oh Christ. Not William Wallace again

Lnaa

tayto lover wrote: »

"I am William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen,
here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And
free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?"
"Two thousand against ten?" - the veteran shouted. "No! We will
run - and live!"
"Yes!" Wallace shouted back. "Fight and you may die. Run and you
will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for
one chance, just one cahnce, to come back here as young men and tell
our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take
our freedom!"

Miska Muska, Mickey Mouse
M I C K E Y M O U S E
That's me
M I C K E Y M O U S E

It's the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
Come inside, it's fun inside
It's the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
Roll call

Donald, present
Daisy, here
Goofy, hyuck, here
Pluto, ruff ruff
Minnie, oh, here
Mickey, right here

It's the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
Come inside, it's fun inside
M I C K E Y M O U S E

tayto lover

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Oh Christ. Not William Wallace again

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!

cloud493

Going along those lines, Ireland should model itself on the lyrics of the wolfetones .

Lnaa

tayto lover wrote: »

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!

As gaeilge?

eeepaulo

tayto lover wrote: »

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!

When you said you read some books on scottish history earlier you were lying werent you.

You just watched braveheart didnt you.

Grandpa Hassan

tayto lover wrote: »

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!

Yeah yeah. Burns. We get it. Do you have a point?

I think that this thread has run out of cotton!

tayto lover

eeepaulo wrote: »

When you said you read some books on scottish history earlier you were lying werent you.

You just watched braveheart didnt you.

No actually Mel Gibson rang me to say he's taken very ill for some reason.
Very weak indeed he said.

moxin

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RadioClydeNews

https://vine.co/v/OWPzrhni0Aj

Can someone explain why a No voter would replace the Scottish Saltire flag with a Union flag?
It was said that a No vote was patriotic for Scotland?!

Lnaa

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Yeah yeah. Burns. We get it. Do you have a point?

"Its a wild and lonely place, yee understand?"

Lnaa

moxin wrote: »

Can someone explain why a No voter would replace the Scottish Saltire flag with a Union flag?
It was said that a No vote was patriotic for Scotland?!

Again, 100 latchycos Scotland does not make.

cloud493

Lnaa wrote: »

"Its a wild and lonely place, yee understand?"

We're doomed. DOOMED!

Fratton Fred

My favourite part was when Wallace slept with the queen.

She was 12 years old when Wallace was executed, maybe operation yewtree still has a lot of digging to do.

Lnaa

cloud493 wrote: »

We're doomed. DOOMED!

I'm for a world where Jack and James are amicable !

Lnaa

Fratton Fred wrote: »

My favourite part was when Wallace slept with the queen.

She was 12 years old when Wallace was executed, maybe operation yewtree still has a lot of digging to do.

I especially liked it because I thought a rough-ársed country yokel giving Sophie Marceau one was very realistic .

Aidric

Fratton Fred wrote: »

My favourite part was when Wallace slept with the queen.

She was 12 years old when Wallace was executed, maybe operation yewtree still has a lot of digging to do.

'Robin Hood Men in Tights' has about as much relavance to this referendum as 'Braveheart'.

Lnaa

I reckon we should decide national hegemony by the quality of national anthems...

Contenders...

Danny Boy
God Save the Queen
Flower of Scotland
Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau

When do we move the UK government to Cardiff?

LorMal

tayto lover wrote: »

"I am William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen,
here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And
free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?"
"Two thousand against ten?" - the veteran shouted. "No! We will
run - and live!"
"Yes!" Wallace shouted back. "Fight and you may die. Run and you
will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for
one chance, just one cahnce, to come back here as young men and tell
our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take
our freedom!"

please stop cutting and pasting the lyrics of songs, and quotes from speeches and clips of Braveheart and then saying you have a mind of your own.
You are boring.

Wurzelbert

cloud493 wrote: »

We're doomed. DOOMED!

DOOOOOOOMED!

Lnaa

Wurzelbert wrote: »

DOOOOOOOMED!

Don't panic, they've voted no Mr. Mainwaring, DON'T PANIC!!!!!!!!!!

tayto lover

LorMal wrote: »

please stop cutting and pasting the lyrics of songs, and quotes from speeches and clips of Braveheart and then saying you have a mind of your own.
You are boring.

Those copy and paste clips were very fitting i thought.
Like -

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie

reminded me of the voters, England's little brothers so to speak.

Grandpa Hassan

tayto lover wrote: »

Those copy and paste clips were very fitting i thought.
Like -

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie

reminded me of the voters, England's little brothers so to speak.

The bitterness is astonishing

tayto lover

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

The bitterness is astonishing

The vote was more astonishing tbh.

Donkey Oaty

tayto lover wrote: »

Those copy and paste clips were very fitting i thought.
Like -

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie

reminded me of the voters, England's little brothers so to speak.

You'll be aware that Robert Burns was a unionist?

Be Britain still to Britain true
Amang ourself united
For never but by British hands maun British wrongs be righted

tayto lover

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

You'll be aware that Robert Burns was a unionist?

His poem was fitting though.
He must have been a very prophetic Unionist.

Lnaa

tayto lover wrote: »

Those copy and paste clips were very fitting i thought.
Like -

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim'rous beastie

reminded me of the voters, England's little brothers so to speak.

It's the twenty-first century for Christ's sake, move on...

tayto lover

Lnaa wrote: »

It's the twenty-first century for Christ's sake, move on...

So daring in love, and so dauntless in war,
Have ye e'er heard of gallant like young Lochinvar?

Yes moving from this thread now but still so disappointed for Scotland.

Grandpa Hassan

tayto lover wrote: »

The vote was more astonishing tbh.

Not really. Pretty much expected from day 1

dundalkfc10

tayto lover wrote: »

The vote was more astonishing tbh.

Considering the Bookies had the NO vote at 1/5 and even as short as 1/20 over last month or two, it was pretty much expected!

BarryLyndon

A lot of projecting going on in this thread!

Lnaa

tayto lover wrote: »

So daring in love, and so dauntless in war,
Have ye e'er heard of gallant like young Lochinvar?

Sara,
tu vai dritta e non ti devi vergognare.