Scottish Independence discussion area

A Dub in Glasgo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If one side can pick a small groups of scumbags and use them as representatives of that whole side, can the other not?

If it is wrong for one side then surely it is wrong for the other? You posted the thing about rapists and kiddie fiddlers therefore you must think it is right?

A Dub in Glasgo

moxin wrote: »

True representative of No in a majority Yes city.

Awaiting condemnation of their violence from Darling, Brown and Cameron.

There will be very little as it is hardly being reported in the main stream media. It is only evident from FB and twitter at the moment

Lnaa

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I haven't really taken the claims seriously as I would be astonished if they even tried it

Anyone, it was reported in the media that about 10 cases of potential fraud where votes had already been placed when the person tried to vote

I don't deny for a second the possibility that that happened... but do we really believe that they're aren't nobends who try to vote twice or more in EVERY election?

Lnaa

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The problem is that there is little incentive for Westminster to deal with it. It would have been a different story if the people in the UK voted for PR instead of keeping the discredited FPTP system

True, but there is already news that Manchester is making noises about devolution. Ten years ago there was a vote about devolution in the north-east of England. It wound up as a resounding no. OK, that's a fact, but I sincerely doubt that the north-east is as cocksure of itself as Manchester. Lets face facts, if devolution in England is to start anywhere it will start in Manchester or Liverpool. Not in the north-east.

eeepaulo

porsche959 wrote: »

People with Union Jacks doing Nazi salutes in front of a war memorial.

The 'Better Together' campaign has some interesting allies, is all I'd say.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Among the yes voters were some rapists and kiddie fiddlers. (I'm guessing tbh but I'd say its a safe one)

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

WTF?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why cut the 2nd half? You had to actually make an effort to delete a bit.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

because it seems so fcuked up a post even if it is clarified

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If one side can pick a small groups of scumbags and use them as representatives of that whole side, can the other not?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If it is wrong for one side then surely it is wrong for the other? You posted the thing about rapists and kiddie fiddlers therefore you must think it is right?

Just a synopsis

EDIT: in context

Berserker

This thread is going to a silly place now.

Lnaa

I watched this report about "loyalist" agitation in George Square in Glasgow. Whilst is disgusts me, it doesn't surprise me. That there should be 100 or so fúcking meatheads who probably left school before they joined key stage two looking for trouble is pretty normal in any society. They are knobheads of the first degree. However, that doesn't mean that the other side is immune from latchycos either. Fortunately, Scotland is not the tinderbox that the north of Ireland was (and there is no downtrodden community in Scotland, certainly not on 6 counties scale anyway) and these yahoos will be forgotten about tomorrow. I would still say, however, that the arrest rate in Glasgow will be no higher tonight than in any other city of similar size.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/292808-loyalist-demonstrators-gather-in-glasgows-george-square-for-rally/

Guy:Incognito

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If it is wrong for one side then surely it is wrong for the other? You posted the thing about rapists and kiddie fiddlers therefore you must think it is right?

Yes its wrong, but I'm not pointing at a few people from one side and implying they are all like that.

Guy:Incognito

Lnaa wrote: »

I don't deny for a second the possibility that that happened... but do we really believe that they're aren't nobends who try to vote twice or more in EVERY election?

Vote early and vote often.:)

porsche959

nm wrote: »

You can once there is numerous photo and video footage of them leading a march in Scotland flags and YES banners.

Of course there won't be though, it's all just 'No' scum out there tonight, trying to start a riot even though they won.

Braindead scum are on video right now representing the NO side like it or not, and looking for ridiculous imaginary strawmen to argue about isn't going to change that.

I've heard of sore losers, seems some on No side are sore winners.


Or -to be strictly accurate - fascist sociopathic loyalist BNP scumbags.

Lnaa

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yes its wrong, but I'm not pointing at a few people from one side and implying they are all like that.

Exactly, the vast majority of people vote out of good conscience (even Conservatives). However, every major group in any sphere will have a group of yahoos attached to it. If someone voted no yesterday and then went and punched a yes voter today that isn't indicative of him being a no voter. Of being a criminal, certainly, but of being a no voter, sorry, but no.

Lnaa

porsche959 wrote: »

I've heard of sore losers, seems some on No side are sore winners.


Or -to be strictly accurate - fascist sociopathic loyalist BNP scumbags.

Yeah, cos everyone who lives in England is in the BNP... scumbags :rolleyes:!

moxin

Lnaa wrote: »

Exactly, the vast majority of people vote out of good conscience (even Conservatives). However, every major group in any sphere will have a group of yahoos attached to it. If someone voted no yesterday and then went and punched a yes voter today that isn't indicative of him being a no voter. Of being a criminal, certainly, but of being a no voter, sorry, but no.

Do you condemn the violent No protesters? (2nd time asking)

Lnaa

moxin wrote: »

Do you condemn the violent No protesters? (2nd time asking)

I condemn anyone who resorts to violence over what should be a civil issue, be they yes or no.

That said, please remember that, for certain reasons, I was for yes.

Lnaa

Incidentally, the only reason I didn't condemn the violent mob in Glasgow the first time of asking was because I didn't see your question. I thoroughly condemn them, and I would argue whether they have a brain cell between them. However, I do await with abaited breath the admittance that there may be a latchyco or two on the yes side...

Lnaa

Also, please try to understand that that mob that has descended on George's Square in Glasgow are (a)either the deadhead factor of the Rangers' support or they are (b)idiots that have arrived in Scotland to create trouble.

The Union Jack means **** ALL to Scottish people and Welsh people. It is NOT their flag (in fact its very little used now outside of certain estates in the six counties) and the vast majority of English no longer use it either. It has been taken on by a fúcking yob minority, and that is what you are seeing in Glasgow tonight.

Berserker

Going to be a tense day in Glasgow with Orange and Republican marches in the city. Pity the police.

Lnaa

Berserker wrote: »

Going to be a tense day in Glasgow with Orange and Republican marches in the city. Pity the police.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Wimbledon this year when Andy walks out of centre court...

dundalkfc10

Lnaa wrote: »

Personally, I'm looking forward to Wimbledon this year when Andy walks out of centre court...

Next year

His mother is getting stick over it (she is in Strictly Come Dancing) Its in front of one tomorrows Brit Tabloids

BlutendeRabe

Think the SNP are going to go the way of the Parti Quebecois.
Really shocked about Salmond resigning.

porsche959

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

Think the SNP are going to go the way of the Parti Quebecois.
Really shocked about Salmond resigning.

Why?

Lnaa

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Next year

His mother is getting stick over it (she is in Strictly Come Dancing) Its in front of one tomorrows Brit Tabloids

Beh... the vast majority of people south of the Scottish border couldn't give díck about the whole issue. The viewing figures will bear that out. Although it was an issue that very much involved the whole of the UK, south of the border it was seen as an issue that only effected Scotland.

Even on this forum, it was viewed from a Scotland only viewpoint. What particularly interested me was, at least from the ultras yes posters, what was their view on what would happen to Wales should Scotland declare indepedence? Historically, though I viewed it as questionable, I could understand their anti-England agenda. The problem is a yes vote would have massively affected Wales too. However, that doesn't seem to have entered into the equation. I would be interested to know the general consensus of feeling towards Wales.

Crooked Jack

porsche959 wrote: »

Why?

Probably because despite missing out on total victory, he has been at the helm of an incredible achievement.

feargale

The Scots have given their verdict. I'm sure every right thinking person here will respect it. The greatest good that might come of it is to shame Madrid into recognising the right of Catalonia to likewise decide its future.

davemc180

id say there was a lot of lock ins last night and a lot of damage caused!!

porsche959

Cameron's statement:

https://www.facebook.com/DavidCameronOfficial/posts/846948598662793

porsche959

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Probably because despite missing out on total victory, he has been at the helm of an incredible achievement.

I take your point, but his resignation was the right thing to do and also puts the morality of some of his enemies into sharp context.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I heard Ginty McGinty and Hardcore Country wanted to do a live show at Ibrox tonight. Thankfully it was averted, Ginty darling belongs in a good working mans club.

It wouldn't have been a good idea to open up the stadium to lager louts on a freebee.

Kermit.de.frog

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx38l4YIEAAFahD.jpg

Iwasfrozen

FTA69 wrote: »

I know. All these silly ideas like free health care, a living wage for workers and workers' rights are simply a nuisance to the real heroes of the UK, namely big business.

And who's going to pay for all that? "big business" I suppose.

eire4

Lnaa wrote: »

Beh... the vast majority of people south of the Scottish border couldn't give díck about the whole issue. The viewing figures will bear that out. Although it was an issue that very much involved the whole of the UK, south of the border it was seen as an issue that only effected Scotland.

Even on this forum, it was viewed from a Scotland only viewpoint. What particularly interested me was, at least from the ultras yes posters, what was their view on what would happen to Wales should Scotland declare indepedence? Historically, though I viewed it as questionable, I could understand their anti-England agenda. The problem is a yes vote would have massively affected Wales too. However, that doesn't seem to have entered into the equation. I would be interested to know the general consensus of feeling towards Wales.

Personally I would be in support of further powers for the Welsh assembly and would support them if they wanted a similar vote on full independance.

Richard

Lnaa wrote: »

The Union Jack means **** ALL to Scottish people and Welsh people. It is NOT their flag (in fact its very little used now outside of certain estates in the six counties) and the vast majority of English no longer use it either.

That's actually not true. You speak for the Scottish, Welsh and English, do you?

Richard

porsche959 wrote: »

People with Union Jacks doing Nazi salutes in front of a war memorial.

The 'Better Together' campaign has some interesting allies, is all I'd say.

The Better Together campaign had nothing to do with them. They refused help from the Orange Order and NI Unionists, too.

Richard

porsche959 wrote: »

Here's the difference, and let me try to explain it to you.

Had the result being a Yes vote, Yes voters wouldn't have tried to immobilise a city that voted No, with Nazi salutes, threats, violence and firebombing of newspaper's offices.


https://twitter.com/kitmacdonald/status/513087175047786497/photo/1

Yes supporters were causing problems too: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-historic-day-marred-by-isolated-reports-of-intimidation-abuse-and-violence-9741987.html

They also set fire to "No Thanks" boards etc.

tayto lover

I'm still shocked and saddened that a so-called proud people decided against having independence and running their own affairs. Scots have seriously gone down in my estimation.

FTA69

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And who's going to pay for all that? "big business" I suppose.

Yes, I believe that profitable businesses should pay their workers a wage upon which they can live. That isn't a bizarre idea like. You can work 50 hours a week on minimum wage in the UK for a company like McDonalds or Sports Direct and still be below the poverty line. That's obscene. In fact you're so poor that you're actually entitled to Working Tax Credit i.e. partial dole. We have a situation where the taxpayer is subsidising poverty wages to increase the profit margin of corporations. That's wrong.

Henry Sidney

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm still shocked and saddened that a so-called proud people decided against having independence and running their own affairs. Scots have seriously gone down in my estimation.

I suppose they could have become independent and then had to run cap in hand to the UK for a €7bn loan at preferential rates because they can't run their own country, like somewhere else I can think of.

tayto lover

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I suppose they could have become independent and then had to run cap in hand to the UK for a €7bn loan at preferential rates because they can't run their own country, like somewhere else I can think of.

Have you seen this -

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

They made a brilliant choice :rolleyes:

Richard

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm still shocked and saddened that a so-called proud people decided against having independence and running their own affairs. Scots have seriously gone down in my estimation.

It isn't about that. Proud people all over Europe are part of something bigger.

Scotland has devolution and is getting more, you know?

tayto lover

Richard wrote: »

It isn't about that. Proud people all over Europe are part of something bigger.

Scotland has devolution and is getting more, you know?

Crumbs from the table so.

Henry Sidney

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you seen this -

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

They made a brilliant choice :rolleyes:

Absolutely, UK national debt is at 90%of GDP, which is very acceptable.

Ireland's is 121% which is unbelievably poor and a result of a failure to manage it's own affairs

Guy:Incognito

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you seen this -

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

They made a brilliant choice :rolleyes:

£ 22.903 debt per citizen

That's about €8000 a head better off than us going by this http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

fryup

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm still shocked and saddened that a so-called proud people decided against having independence and running their own affairs. Scots have seriously gone down in my estimation.

i'm sure they're devastated :rolleyes:

and you know whats best for them do ya??????? do you live there????

Smiles35

tayto lover wrote: »

Crumbs from the table so.

It won't be like that. A harder head will pop-up in Scotland and negociate strong terms.

SpaceTime

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

£ 22.903 debt per citizen

That's about €8000 a head better off than us going by this http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Well, that's still pretty bad by international standards and Scotland wouldn't have had the aftermath of a property bubble and oversized construction sector to deal with and the it's got the hindsight not to repeat that scenario.

The UK is still running an enormous trade deficit (Ireland's running a trade surplus) and their EU stance is placing the City of London's status as Europe's financial hub at risk.

Guy:Incognito

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well, that's still pretty bad by international standards and Scotland wouldn't have had the aftermath of a property bubble and oversized construction sector to deal with and the it's got the hindsight not to repeat that scenario.

No, it'd have the set up costs of a health service, the rest of a public service. The admin costs of everything associated with setting up a new country etc.

SpaceTime

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, it'd have the set up costs of a health service, the rest of a public service. The admin costs of everything associated with setting up a new country etc.

Well it would have to ensure local funding of existing services. That's the only major change. The systems are already in place.

There's a lot of things already devolved to Scotland anyway but they'd need a lot of high level services like a central bank, financial regulators, various regulated industry regulators equivalent to ComReg etc and all of the other services and facilities that are Whitehall based.

Costs might go up. It's hard to know as Scottish economic stats aren't really available in the same way as a country's stats are.

Smiles35

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, it'd have the set up costs of a health service.

That's what should have been on the table, keeping the link-up with the NHS and a direct cost per head in Scotland worked out.

Dayum

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well it would have to ensure local funding of existing services. That's the only major change. The systems are already in place.

There's a lot of things already devolved to Scotland anyway but they'd need a lot of high level services like a central bank, financial regulators, various regulated industry regulators equivalent to ComReg etc and all of the other services and facilities that are Whitehall based.

Costs might go up. It's hard to know as Scottish economic stats aren't really available in the same way as a country's stats are.

The last thing Scotland needs is a Central Bank and regulators. They could have lowered taxes to attract investment and deregulated to attract business. Abolish the legal tender laws and they'd be well on their way to becoming Hong Kong 2.0.

But they've shat themselves.

tayto lover

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

£ 22.903 debt per citizen

That's about €8000 a head better off than us going by this http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Yeas "my willie is bigger...":pac: