Scottish Independence discussion area

Guy:Incognito

tayto lover wrote: »

Yeas "my willie is bigger...":pac:

That's not an answer.

RandomName2

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm still shocked and saddened that a so-called proud people decided against having independence and running their own affairs. Scots have seriously gone down in my estimation.

Ah! Can add you to the list as well.

It wouldn't have made a huge difference in the end if Scotland had entered the EU anyhow.

Micky Dolenz

Someone asked me was I happy they stayed in the union, with me being British and all. I said I was from Southern Ireland. They said "yeah, part of the UK".

Moral of the story, most people don't know or care about other countries politics.

tayto lover

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That's not an answer.

Ok.
Our debt id less than yours.
A great reason to reject the freedom to run your own country and try make it better.
It's just a cop-out reason.

Fratton Fred

tayto lover wrote: »

Ok.
Our debt id less than yours.
A great reason to reject the freedom to run your own country and try make it better.
It's just a cop-out reason.

Scotland would have taken on a share of that debt. Their position would be no different.

Iwasfrozen

FTA69 wrote: »

Yes, I believe that profitable businesses should pay their workers a wage upon which they can live. That isn't a bizarre idea like. You can work 50 hours a week on minimum wage in the UK for a company like McDonalds or Sports Direct and still be below the poverty line. That's obscene. In fact you're so poor that you're actually entitled to Working Tax Credit i.e. partial dole. We have a situation where the taxpayer is subsidising poverty wages to increase the profit margin of corporations. That's wrong.

If you raise the minimum wage companies won't cut into their profit they'll just fire people.

Lnaa

FTA69 wrote: »

Yes, I believe that profitable businesses should pay their workers a wage upon which they can live. That isn't a bizarre idea like. You can work 50 hours a week on minimum wage in the UK for a company like McDonalds or Sports Direct and still be below the poverty line. That's obscene. In fact you're so poor that you're actually entitled to Working Tax Credit i.e. partial dole. We have a situation where the taxpayer is subsidising poverty wages to increase the profit margin of corporations. That's wrong.

Absolutely. But the result of the Scottish referendum wasn't going to change that either way.

A Dub in Glasgo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Southern Ireland

:eek:

SpaceTime

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Someone asked me was I happy they stayed in the union, with me being British and all. I said I was from Southern Ireland. They said "yeah, part of the UK".

Moral of the story, most people don't know or care about other countries politics.

Best one I ever had was in Belgium.
Some really dumb person put "UK Citizen" on a legal document.
I brought it up with her and she actually argued with me that the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain is "the United Kingdom of England and the Republic of Ireland".

I pointed out that it wasn't and she said "well that's a matter of political opinion I guess".

I said "yes, if your desk is somehow caught in a time-warp and you're speaking to me from 1920"

She continued to argue the point, even after I showed her my passport.

So, I said : well, I'm really enjoying my time here in Germany.
Then *SHE* got angry with me!

Some people are just unbelievably stupid and arrogant.

I ended up having to call her manager, a very friendly Flemish lady who was very apologetic on her behalf.

...

Meanwhile, I had to show my passport to get an ID number in Spain in the Basque Country and the lady behind the desk was like "Oh! That's really interesting that they're bilingual, we could do that on the new Basque Passports when we declare independence !!"

You can assume nothing about people's knowledge of world geography / history / politics.

One person in the US I was speaking to actually thought Ireland was near New York and was part of the US all based on the fact that I spoke English!
A friend of mine from England was also asked what her native language was because she 'spoke English with a very strange accent". (She's from Newcastle)

tayto lover

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Scotland would have taken on a share of that debt. Their position would be no different.

By that reasoning they don't have a share of it now.

indioblack

tayto lover wrote: »

Ok.
Our debt id less than yours.
A great reason to reject the freedom to run your own country and try make it better.
It's just a cop-out reason.

If I was a registered voter in Scotland I would be thinking that Salmond's case was more style than substance. Independence at any price is understandable with regard to Ireland a century ago.
The world has moved on since then.

Micky Dolenz

SpaceTime wrote: »

Best one I ever had was in Belgium.
Some really dumb person put "UK Citizen" on a legal document.
I brought it up with her and she actually argued with me that the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain is "the United Kingdom of England and the Republic of Ireland".

I pointed out that it wasn't and she said "well that's a matter of political opinion I guess".

I said "yes, if your desk is somehow caught in a time-warp and you're speaking to me from 1920"

She continued to argue the point, even after I showed her my passport.

So, I said : well, I'm really enjoying my time here in Germany.
Then *SHE* got angry with me!

Some people are just unbelievably stupid and arrogant.

I ended up having to call her manager, a very friendly Flemish lady who was very apologetic on her behalf.

...

Meanwhile, I had to show my passport to get an ID number in Spain in the Basque Country and the lady behind the desk was like "Oh! That's really interesting that they're bilingual, we could do that on the new Basque Passports when we declare independence !!"

You can assume nothing about people's knowledge of world geography / history / politics.

One person in the US I was speaking to actually thought Ireland was near New York and was part of the US all based on the fact that I spoke English!
A friend of mine from England was also asked what her native language was because she 'spoke English with a very strange accent". (She's from Newcastle)

I had something similar when I lived in London, of all places, can't remember why exactly the conversation took place but it was in a professional capacity. She nearly had me convinced the south was part of the UK for a finish

Guy:Incognito

tayto lover wrote: »

By that reasoning they don't have a share of it now.

Hows that?

Lnaa

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I had something similar when I lived in London, of all places, can't remember why exactly the conversation took place but it was in a professional capacity. She nearly had me convinced the south was part of the UK for a finish

Even within a country people are often unfathomably thick. Whilst in conversation with a local in Dublin, I made the statement that I tended to drink at home rather than go to the pub. I was promptly asked did I have to buy beers whilst I was up in Dublin to take home. I said no, I buy them from the local shop or supermarket to the astonishment of the Dub... I mean, who'd have thought that we have off licences and supermarkets in rural Ireland :rolleyes:.

I'm not sure whether it beats the "do you have Sky in Ireland" question I often get asked in the UK.

Henry Sidney

Lnaa wrote: »

Even within a country people are often unfathomably thick. Whilst in conversation with a local in Dublin, I made the statement that I tended to drink at home rather than go to the pub. I was promptly asked did I have to buy beers whilst I was up in Dublin to take home. I said no, I buy them from the local shop or supermarket to the astonishment of the Dub... I mean, who'd have thought that we have off licences and supermarkets in rural Ireland :rolleyes:.

I'm not sure whether it beats the "do you have Sky in Ireland" question I often get asked in the UK.

The Sky question is a reasonable one. Different countries have different tv companies. no Sky in France for example. No RTE in England or Saorview either.

Lnaa

Henry Sidney wrote: »

The Sky question is a reasonable one. Different countries have different tv companies. no Sky in France for example. No RTE in England or Saorview either.

I think the question is asked more as a "do you have satellite tv in Ireland" than do you have a service named Sky. The British do have a serious habit of thinking Ireland is stuck back in the 1950s.

Lnaa

Lnaa wrote: »

I think the question is asked more as a "do you have satellite tv in Ireland" than do you have a service named Sky. The British do have a serious habit of thinking Ireland is stuck back in the 1950s.

Certain attitudes are from back in the 1950s from an English perspective.
Various aspects of healthcare spring to mind.

Henry Sidney

Lnaa wrote: »

I think the question is asked more as a "do you have satellite tv in Ireland" than do you have a service named Sky. The British do have a serious habit of thinking Ireland is stuck back in the 1950s.

I'm English and spent over a decade in Ireland. Parts of it felt like an episode of Heartbeat, particularly anything to do with the HSE or politics. I still have a fondness for Ireland, but it is still stuck behind the times in many ways. That's one of the reasons I left.

The_Valeyard

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I'm English and spent over a decade in Ireland. Parts of it felt like an episode of Heartbeat, particularly anything to do with the HSE or politics. I still have a fondness for Ireland, but it is still stuck behind the times in many ways. That's one of the reasons I left.

We really miss you..... :rolleyes:

Henry Sidney

The_Valeyard wrote: »

We really miss you..... :rolleyes:

Probably as much as I miss Ireland

The_Valeyard

Henry Sidney wrote: »

Probably as much as I miss Ireland

Come on, just hug it out, you will be fine

tayto lover

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I'm English and spent over a decade in Ireland. Parts of it felt like an episode of Heartbeat, particularly anything to do with the HSE or politics. I still have a fondness for Ireland, but it is still stuck behind the times in many ways. That's one of the reasons I left.

Yes indeed. Ity has the same problem as England i.e. politicians.

Piliger

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes indeed. Ity has the same problem as England i.e. politicians.

Better known as stupid voters.

Piliger

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I'm English and spent over a decade in Ireland. Parts of it felt like an episode of Heartbeat, particularly anything to do with the HSE or politics. I still have a fondness for Ireland, but it is still stuck behind the times in many ways. That's one of the reasons I left.

Yeah right ... and parts of England don't ...... hilarious.

SharpshooterTom

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I'm English and spent over a decade in Ireland. Parts of it felt like an episode of Heartbeat, particularly anything to do with the HSE or politics. I still have a fondness for Ireland, but it is still stuck behind the times in many ways. That's one of the reasons I left.

Really? I find that hard to believe.

Skimming through your posts I'm struggling to find any positive things you've said about Ireland. Its almost all negative.

If you dislike country so much and now you've left, why then waste your time on an Irish internet forum interacting with Irish people for? Surely that's the whole point of leaving wasn't it?

To be fair there's a Irish Republican nut on the DigitalSpy forums who hates everything about the UK but continues to post sh1te about how evil Britain is and defends every PIRA action going. I honestly don't know why he bothers, but I guess some people just get off on being silly provocative WUMs.

SpaceTime

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Really? I find that hard to believe.

Skimming through your posts I'm struggling to find any positive things you've said about Ireland. Its almost all negative.

If you dislike country so much and now you've left, why then waste your time on an Irish internet forum interacting with Irish people for? Surely that's the whole point of leaving wasn't it?

To be fair there's a Irish Republican nut on the DigitalSpy forums who hates everything about the UK but continues to post sh1te about how evil Britain is and defends every PIRA action going. I honestly don't know why he bothers, but I guess some people just get off on being silly provocative WUMs.

Probably turn out to be an eccentric member of the aristocracy trolling.

SpaceTime

Lnaa wrote: »

I think the question is asked more as a "do you have satellite tv in Ireland" than do you have a service named Sky. The British do have a serious habit of thinking Ireland is stuck back in the 1950s.

I find a lot of it tends to be comparing Central London with some remote village in Leitrim.

Plenty of parts of Rural England that were inspiration for The League of Gentlemen...

As for the politics, other than the abortion issue the majority of modern day Irish politics is centre / centre left. I find the place is increasingly more like northern European style consensus centrism.

The UK system is showboating parties on the left and right.

Also Irish politics is lower key because you've a totally proportional voting system and very non presidential style campaigning due to legal budget limits and smaller scale.

Also I've friends from Yorkshire who Londoners seem to either think live in Wuthering Heights or down a coal mine.
One of them had a Londoner attempting to explain what a Kebab was to her.

They actually give "Northerners" a much harder time than Irish people. They're a bit more "culturally sensitive" about Ireland and Scotland but Northern England is seemingly fair game. Accent mocked, but of jokes etc etc.

Aidric

Anyone else read Irvine Walsh's piece for the Guardian. Think it was pretty on the money.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/20/irvine-welsh-scottish-independence-glorious-failure?CMP=fb_gu

A Dub in Glasgo

Aidric wrote: »

Anyone else read Irvine Walsh's piece for the Guardian. Think it was pretty on the money.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/20/irvine-welsh-scottish-independence-glorious-failure?CMP=fb_gu

Very good, I have already met a couple of No voters who, in hindsight, disappointed themselves especially when they fell for the faster, quicker promise of 'more powers'

Capt'n Midnight

An Irishman and Two British men walk into a bar...

Dayum

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

An Irishman and Two British men walk into a bar...

...and what?

fryup

they start fighting, and then make up after a few pints

Fratton Fred

SpaceTime wrote: »

Also I've friends from Yorkshire who Londoners seem to either think live in Wuthering Heights or down a coal mine.
One of them had a Londoner attempting to explain what a Kebab was to her.

They actually give "Northerners" a much harder time than Irish people. They're a bit more "culturally sensitive" about Ireland and Scotland but Northern England is seemingly fair game. Accent mocked, but of jokes etc etc.

How is that any different to the Dub/culchie thing.

porsche959

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 1 min Interesting fact on #indyref. If voters up to 54 it's YES. If only voters over 54 it's NO. 16-54: YES 54%, NO 46% 55+: YES 34%, NO 66%

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

they voted no get over it

porsche959

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

they voted no get over it

Who are you talking to?

That tweet was posted by Lord Ashcroft just a few minutes ago, so evidently I am not the only person on the face of the planet to find the analysis interesting.

fryup

thats two of you that find it interesting

A Dub in Glasgo

I find it interesting as well, maybe the SNP should annul the free Scotland wide bus travel for the over 60's

Full detail of age groups in the link below (presumably based on a sample or number of samples)

http://postimg.org/image/yf8nlgk6n/

SharpshooterTom

porsche959 wrote: »

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 1 min Interesting fact on #indyref. If voters up to 54 it's YES. If only voters over 54 it's NO. 16-54: YES 54%, NO 46% 55+: YES 34%, NO 66%

This has been posted already but individually the age groups are:

16 - 24: 51% YES
25 - 34: 59% YES
35 - 44: 53% YES
45 - 54: 52% YES
55 - 64: 57% NO
65+: 73% NO

EDIT: Dub's beaten me to it, I guess the 18-24 year olds might have been a bit of an outlier, bizarre how only a couple years difference it goes to over 70% YES for 16-17 year olds. The consensus is amongst 16-54 year olds they have a lukewarm majority.

Its important because not only is the vote relatively close, but because it was older voters who heavily voted NO, it means in another generation from now 15-20 years the SNP could realistically have another shot.

A Dub in Glasgo

I suspect the 18-24 group contains a load of University students who voted No (nearly 10% of students are from south of the border paying fees in Scotland)

P_1

It is interesting looking at the breakdown of votes by age alright. To be fair I am a bit of a stats nerd though...

Wurzelbert

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

This has been posted already but individually the age groups are:

16 - 24: 51% YES
25 - 34: 59% YES
35 - 44: 53% YES
45 - 54: 52% YES
55 - 64: 57% NO
65+: 73% NO
[...]

so scotland’s future voted yes while scotland’s past voted no…of course, harder to think of the future and vote for change when you’re already in your twilight years…

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

It is interesting looking at the breakdown of votes by age alright. To be fair I am a bit of a stats nerd though...

Scotland must have quite a sizeable percentage of older people for those age groups to have had such an affect on the outcome.

A Dub in Glasgo

Age profile

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/DataGrid/Age/AgePopMig

Its Only Ray Parlour

Is there any reason why the older Scots prefer the Union, or why the younger Scots prefer independence?

Aidric

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Full detail of age groups in the link below (presumably based on a sample or number of samples)

http://postimg.org/image/yf8nlgk6n/

Thanks for that, revealing demographic. The socio demographic stats were also telling. As far as I know the yes vote was carried in the traditional working class areas like Glasgow and Dundee which speaks for the alienation of these people from centralised government.

TheBeardedLady

Have you heard about the rigging rumours in the referendum?

http://shar.es/1asR3h

A Dub in Glasgo

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

Is there any reason why the older Scots prefer the Union, or why the younger Scots prefer independence?

I put forward 3 main reason for the older gen voting No

1. You take less risks as you get older
2. The scare stories from the No side went straight for that demographic
3. They are more likely to have an affinity for the union

porsche959

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I put forward 3 main reason for the older gen voting No

1. You take less risks as you get older
2. The scare stories from the No side went straight for that demographic
3. They are more likely to have an affinity for the union

I think those make sense and would add:

4. More likely to get their news wholly or mainly from traditional media, vast majority of which were against Scottish independence.

A Dub in Glasgo

Yeah, that is definitely a reason