Very short-lived restaurants

Boulevardier

I go to the Epicurean quite a lot because it is handy for work and I can fill up cheaply.

They are now open later each evening than before so that is handy.

I would hate it if they closed.

Muahahaha

Boulevardier wrote: »

I go to the Epicurean quite a lot because it is handy for work and I can fill up cheaply.

They are now open later each evening than before so that is handy.

I would hate it if they closed.

Me too but I think it is fair to say that they need to up their game, things have become a lot more competitive in the food space during the recession but the Epicurean seems to have stood still. They don't need to spend a wad of cash or anything but the place could do with a lick of paint and a small investment in more comfortable seating. It's still a wonderful place and I wish Dublin had more food halls like it.

Sulla Felix

Far from standing still, I think they've regressed. The offerings when it opened were far superior. The fromagerie and patisserie and Christophes were all excellent and have never really been replaced.

chopper6

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Far from standing still, I think they've regressed. The offerings when it opened were far superior. The fromagerie and patisserie and Christophes were all excellent and have never really been replaced.

It's funny but when that place was known as the Abbey mall they had one very basic sandwich place/cafe that was always busy and was there for more than a decade.

Likewise just outside was an Italian chipper with a sit-down section that had been there since the 1970's.

I think the place and the area generally is now much too crowded with places to eat and quality has declined as businesses compete for a handfull of customers who are now more than willing to shop around.

Johnwayne98

Does anyone remember a restaurant on Talbot street years ago called "The American Connection"?
I think it was where the "111 Talbot " restaurant is today.

It was a great restaurant,huge Al Capone type murals on the walls,the toilets were affectionately known as "the john",the Elton John(gents)and the Olivia Newton John(ladies).

washiskin

For me the heart of The Epicurean when it opened first was Istanbul. Akif, the man who ran it, spent time getting to know his customers & I could guarantee the same people would drift in on a Thursday evening. He was keen to promote Turkish cuisine and was regularly introducing different dishes. I was so hooked I went to Turkey fully aware of what I would be getting to eat. He then sold the place to his business partner who changed it to a glorified Abrakebabra.

The patisserie at the Liffey St door was also a revelation but over the past few years the authentic-ness of the Food Hall has eroded with the spread of ethnic eateries over all over the city centre.

Muahahaha

Yeah I think when the Epricurean opened it was really all about quality ethnic cuisine. Now when you go in most of what you see is curries and dried out chicken sitting in Bain maries for god knows how many hours. The management have allowed it to deteriorate by not demanding higher standards from the traders and instead they've gone for the lowest common dominator.

It's rare I go in there anymore, if I'm in that area and want a cheap eat then the IFI is a far better pick- decent food with main courses starting at €7.50, good surroundings and table service.

Boulevardier

The thread has gone a bit off-topic.

ongarboy

Muahahaha wrote: »

The dreamers theory certainly would explain most of it.

You make a good point when you talk about how businesses dont even seem to try, often you will find it is the case that they do try but they do not know the correct way to try. You only need to look at programs like At Your Service and Fergal Quinn's Retail Therapy to find out that often in hospitality and retail the owners themselves don't have a clue what they're doing and need to have their hand held while camera crews film the lot. Programs like that show me that some people are in business because they were the first to open their variety of retail premises in the town and usually no one else competes. But then when someone does set up and compete the owner gets the sh1ts because suddenly they've been caught with their pants down by a competitor for the first time and they are running rings around them in terms of price/value/service and suddenly their turnover is down 30-50% and they're in trouble.

I think another factor why businesses open and close so quick is the location they choose and the number of competitors already around you. Asian immigrants can often be guilty of this but sometimes Irish businesses too. If an Asian food entrepreneur sees an Asian cafe and then another one sets up shortly after very near to it he is not thinking that maybe the street is saturated with Asian food and I should set up a Tex Mex, he's thinking that the street is calling out for a third Asian cafe because two isn't enough to satisfy the demand. You can see this problem on Dame Street where there are about five or six Asian or Chinese restaurants within a stones throw and none of them do great business as there just isnt enough business to go around.

Also as well there are certain trends that underpin the type of food that people go out and eat. This doesn't apply to all diners but some are swayed by trends. For example in Dublin 2 years ago it seemed like everyone was raving on about Burritoes, there was huge threads on it here and university students all over Dublin were going wild for them. In the space of 6 months about 10 different burrito shops had opened and at the beginning they were all packed. But two years on pass them now and they aren't as busy as they once were and I'd expect to see a few of them hit the wall in the next while, the quality ones in good locations will survive. Maybe the trend has moved onto noodle bars or sushi trains, I don't know, but any simple observation of bums on seats will show you it's moved away from Burritoes somewhat. For the Burrito shop owner that's a pain in the ass but he is no longer 'on trend' with the market he serves, a demographic who can be very fickle and go from loving your restaurant to boycotting it altogether in a very short space of time because something 'cooler' has come along and all the crowd are now going there.

I really noticed the trend thing too. I remember it was all about smoothie bars, then more recently the milk shake bars, the buritto bars and you've a lot of inexperienced people jumping on the bandwagon because of a temporary fad. Hardly any of them lasted. I remember one couple who opened a smoothie bar being interviewed in my home town in the local press. They had apparently never heard of smoothies before and were in the big smoke one day and saw a queue of people paying 4 euro for a drink made out of blended fresh fruit and they said "sure we can do that" and that seemed to be the extent of their business plan. Needless to say, they didn't last long.

Also what you say about some fairly clueless people running businesses as exposed on At Your Service, The Takeover, the Fergal Quinn show etc. While I'm not remotely expert in running a business, I as a layman would cringe at some of the attitudes or beliefs of some of the business people interviewed in these shows. The dogs in the street would be able to point out why some of their businesses weren't working. I do think naive dreaming is a lot to do with it. I still have to admire these people for taking risks (or else are they so naive they weren't even aware there was risk??)

Boulevardier

I suppose you are right- these are probably people who are sinking redundancy money, inheritances or whatever into these ill-fated enterprises.

They surely cannot be getting credit from financial institutions, unless these have become even more foolish in recent years than they were during the boom!

Piliger

It is admirable that we have so many optimistic people willing to start their own business. However the restaurant business is one of the more difficult ones to make a success. Too many of the proprietors come to the business from a love of food and the atmosphere that surrounds the food business, while they have pitifully poor knowledge of business and especially how to run the finances of the restaurant business.
I hate to see these closing. I know that each one represents a lost dream and a shed load of money that most of them will be paying off for many many more years.