Immune System prob??

angeldaisy

Well, to cut a long story short, we heard back from the vet today about Rusty.

We took him to the vet about 10 days ago as he had a cough and was lethargic. We were told he was very anaemic and they would run blood tests, but were advised that we should prepare for the worst given his age, he's almost 12, and a collie x.

Today we were told that the tests indicated no obvious cancers, but they suggested an immune system problem which was probably attacking his red blood cells.

They've suggested trialling him on steroids and then retesting his blood in a week or so to see if there has been any improvement.

The vet did say that they could do further tests, such as xrays etc... but said that it would probably not alter his treatments.

My gut feeling is not to get further tests done as he gets so stressed out being in the vet as it is. I'm going to give the steroids a try, he's on antibiotics as well at the moment. I think I'll also give him a strong worm / parasite dose - just to be on the safe side as well. Even though I only treated him about 3 weeks ago.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions - or been through this with their own dog?

cocker5

angeldaisy wrote: »

Well, to cut a long story short, we heard back from the vet today about Rusty.

We took him to the vet about 10 days ago as he had a cough and was lethargic. We were told he was very anaemic and they would run blood tests, but were advised that we should prepare for the worst given his age, he's almost 12, and a collie x.

Today we were told that the tests indicated no obvious cancers, but they suggested an immune system problem which was probably attacking his red blood cells.

They've suggested trialling him on steroids and then retesting his blood in a week or so to see if there has been any improvement.

The vet did say that they could do further tests, such as xrays etc... but said that it would probably not alter his treatments.

My gut feeling is not to get further tests done as he gets so stressed out being in the vet as it is. I'm going to give the steroids a try, he's on antibiotics as well at the moment. I think I'll also give him a strong worm / parasite dose - just to be on the safe side as well. Even though I only treated him about 3 weeks ago.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions - or been through this with their own dog?

Really sorry to haer about your dog

Whilie i havent been through this per say my cocker (whos 9 this satrurday) was run down, really quiet, lethargic etc.
Brought him to the vet they did lots of tests (€300 worth) nothing came back as a possible cause with one exception they he was anaemic not very bad yet but still high enough...

So my vet suggested i give hime lambs liver once per week for two months, while would help with his iron levels and it has massively.

Not an answer to your poor dogs problems but maybe it will help too...

try lambs liver twice per week for your guy and see if it helps?

BTW my cocker LOVES liver, it makes me gag but if it helps your guys its worth a try

Best of luck

X

angeldaisy

thanks Cocker5, his anaemia is moderate at the moment.

Did you give him the liver raw?

We've spent over 250 so far on tests, so I would rather spend any extra money on spoiling him! He's going to be getting even more spoilt than he normally is. He's lost weight as it is, he was 31kg about 3 years ago, went down to 27 last year and is now around 24kg. He's never been a greedy dog though so it can be difficult getting him to eat extra sometimes. but i'm sure he won't refuse special treats!

Thanks again

cocker5

angeldaisy wrote: »

thanks Cocker5, his anaemia is moderate at the moment.

Did you give him the liver raw?

We've spent over 250 so far on tests, so I would rather spend any extra money on spoiling him! He's going to be getting even more spoilt than he normally is. He's lost weight as it is, he was 31kg about 3 years ago, went down to 27 last year and is now around 24kg. He's never been a greedy dog though so it can be difficult getting him to eat extra sometimes. but i'm sure he won't refuse special treats!

Thanks again

poor mite, hope he is ok.

No I cooked his liver, I lightly fried it… he adores it… he goes wild for it, but im sure you can feed it raw or cooked and Im sure from iron content raw would be better as it wouldn’t be damaged in the cooking process.
its smells dreadful TBH but they love it.

I would def. try it twice per week for 4 weeks then, reduce down to once per week and see how he is.

Hope he feels better soon, give me an update if you try the liver?

aonb

Poor Rusty - but good that its not a cancer?
I was going to suggest upping his iron levels - liver sounds like a good suggestion - my old guy goes nuts for it too - worth a try? Have you discussed with your vet an iron supplement possibility? I know there are products on the market that specifically boost a dogs immune system.
I give my elderly dog Coconut Oil to help his immune system (and lots of other things - google it!) I also only feed him home cooked food - chicken/rice or beef/potato or liver/veg and weekly raw bones. Reckon theres too much bad things for his compromised system in commercial dog foods. I also give him probiotic yogourt - either in his food, or he will eat small amounts at a time.

Completely understand how you feel about spoiling him at his age, rather than more tests/treatments if hes stressed about vets etc.

angeldaisy

aonb wrote: »

Poor Rusty - but good that its not a cancer?
I was going to suggest upping his iron levels - liver sounds like a good suggestion - my old guy goes nuts for it too - worth a try? Have you discussed with your vet an iron supplement possibility? I know there are products on the market that specifically boost a dogs immune system.
I give my elderly dog Coconut Oil to help his immune system (and lots of other things - google it!) I also only feed him home cooked food - chicken/rice or beef/potato or liver/veg and weekly raw bones. Reckon theres too much bad things for his compromised system in commercial dog foods. I also give him probiotic yogourt - either in his food, or he will eat small amounts at a time.

Completely understand how you feel about spoiling him at his age, rather than more tests/treatments if hes stressed about vets etc.

Some great advice there Aonb. The vet can't be sure that he'll last anylonger with it being an immune system problem, so are being cautious with their prognosis.

I tried him with some chicken and rice at the weekend - it was comical - he picked out all the chicken and left the rice - whereas her ladyship (Tara) wolfed the lot of it.

I must try to feed him more home cooked stuff, he gets chicken regularly and sardines occasionally. I always worry though that he isn't getting enough. Do you know of any websites that provide guidance on that??

cocker5

These may help :

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade3.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7462804

http://www.merckmanuals.com/pethealth/dog_disorders_and_diseases/blood_disorders_of_dogs/anemia_in_dogs.html

aonb

Im sure more knowledgeable folks will be along soon with more info. With the elderly dogs its just such a worry if they arent great to eat. One of my old guys had a terrible appetite, the other old guy is obsessed with food.

I guess the important thing is to get decent food/meat in to him, they need protein. You could give him the chicken without the rice. You could buy some liver. Will he eat raw bones? They're great for calcium, good for his teeth. Raw. Raw chicken bones are good roughage. If he will eat raw meat, that would probably be the best option. Try the coconut oil (E6 for a huge tub in Supervalu - a tsp in his food) - wont go to waste - very good for humans too! Try probiotics. Try garlic.

I reckon that keeping an elderly dog happy/comfortable is one of the best things we can do for them.

This looks interesting:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/05/26/three-major-reasons-to-feed-your-pet-a-homemade-diet.aspx

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/digestive-enzymes-for-pet/

http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html

anniehoo

Very sorry to hear this diagnosis Angeldaisy. While it's good that's it's not cancer if it's IMHA (immune mediated haemolytic anaemia) it can also be quite serious too I'm afraid

As you're probably learning there are a number of causes of anaemia in dogs and if it's "immune linked" or "mediated" then it basically means there's an immune reaction happening within Rusty that basically involves cells called macrophages ingesting his own red cells (erythrocytes). The best way initially to suppress this is with steroids such as prednisone to stop this immune response. Your vet needs to determine then whether it's regenerative (making more red cells) or non regenerative (not making more) and whether there's bone marrow issues then.

I'm not sure if supplementing with liver is recommended either as iron-loss anaemia isn't that common in dogs, mainly humans. Open to correction on that though.

cocker5 wrote: »

These may help :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7462804

This isn't actually a good article to link to as the outcome caused:

wrote:

Significant abnormalities of liver function developed in all cholesterol-fed dogs. Hematocrit declined beginning at 6 weeks, with a parallel increase in osmotic fragility.

Although this paper is from 1980 it basically is saying that dogs (beagles and greyhounds) fed a diet supplemented with cholesterol and coconut oil caused negative effects with liver function problems and decrease in Hct which is exactly what you don't want. Atherogenic means it causes fatty deposits on the arteries.

But, the Merck vet manual link cocker5 also posted would be a good place to start your research into this Angeldaisy.

boomerang

angeldaisy wrote: »

I tried him with some chicken and rice at the weekend - it was comical - he picked out all the chicken and left the rice - whereas her ladyship (Tara) wolfed the lot of it.

When my dog was very sick I put the chicken and rice together in the blender to make a "smoothie" - might be an idea.

angeldaisy

thanks for all your help, started him on the steroids last night, so we'll see how he goes with that.

Ordered some chicken mince from Dogs First so will try feeding him naturally from now on - have about a months worth left of his dried food so will gradually change him over. I'll be giving him other bits and peices as well, all I can do is make him as comfortable and happy as I can if his lifespan is to be shorter than we hoped.

Cue one very spoiled (not that he isn't already!) doggy.

aonb

angeldaisy wrote: »

thanks for all your help, started him on the steroids last night, so we'll see how he goes with that.

Ordered some chicken mince from Dogs First so will try feeding him naturally from now on - have about a months worth left of his dried food so will gradually change him over. I'll be giving him other bits and peices as well, all I can do is make him as comfortable and happy as I can if his lifespan is to be shorter than we hoped.

Cue one very spoiled (not that he isn't already!) doggy.

Hope things work out for Rusty on the steroids.
All we can do really is try to make them comfortable and happy when they are in trouble - food and lots of love and spoiling.

angeldaisy

Thanks, he's not so good this evening. His breathing is quite laboured. but he has been eating and drinking so hopefully it's just a blip.

he wolfed soft scrambled egg for his lunch:) then he decided he was going to try to go for a little walk.
Think that might have been a bit too much for him.

angeldaisy

Unfortunately rusty passed tonight in his sleep. Truly heartbroken.

Just wanted to thank all who helped with their advice

DBB

I'm so sorry to hear this sad news angeldaisy, I think Rusty had a lot of people here rooting for him.
I hope you can get some comfort from knowing he had a great life, and went off peacefully in the end. It's a terrible shock for you, but a nice way for him to go.
Look after yourself.

anniehoo

Absolutely gutted for you angeldaisy. Tears here

RIP Rusty, you were very much loved x

boomerang

I'm so sorry angeldaisy, truly. xxx

fatmammycat

Sorry to hear this angeldaisy, poor old boy. Thoughts with you.

jimf

that's so sad but what a lovely end for him take solace from the fact you didn't have to make that dreaded decision we often have to make

take care

maggiepip

Im so sorry for you angledaisy but it was good he passed peacefully and he was a very lucky dog to have been loved so much.

aonb

Very sad to hear about Rusty, but when they go in their sleep its so much easier - for them and for you - no decisions or worrying about is it time - and he went in his bed in his house in his sleep. A tiny crumb of comfort for you in that. Take care

cocker5

Really sorry to hear about Rusty XX RIP little man

borderlinemeath

I'm so sorry Angeldaisy, I can only echo what other posters have said and its best he went in his sleep, in his own bed and home rather than having to take the dreaded trip to the vets.

tk123

So sorry to hear this! RIP Rusty!!

Whispered

RIP rusty x