Civil Servants want their money back.....

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

One of the terms of the original PSA (croke park) was a restoration of paycuts if and when the situation improved.

The PS have taken a dissproportionate share of the hit on thier wages and if the private sector are receiving pay raises then it's high time the PS got thier money back.

If the Govt "cant afford it" they need to start kicking people off the dole sharpish.



Yeah...so in two years there was absolutely no job at al you could take?

thats a lie and one that should not be allowed stand..how many public sector employees lost their jobs?? answer zero all of the 250k people that joined the dole about 95% were from the private sector or self employed...The other 5% from the public sector went so voluntarily with a juicy lump sum in their pockets.

And its not their money its the tax payers money the public sector IMO need another pay cut and they need to be told where to go with regards to pensions..They need to have this sh1te of defined benefit cut out and let them pay for their own pension....the head on you..they want their money back....We the tax payer want our phucking money back..your not worth the cash we pay for the crap service you lot provide

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

That's one option. of course the Government have the option of making the Public service profitable by increasing charges for services, doubt that one would be very popular either.

Eh is that not what our taxes pay for so what services are these that you are on about..the last time I checked every service these days I have to pay either by direct or indirect taxes...

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

Ah but they do..

And if they dont get it they bugger off elsewhere...unless of course they're not good enough to merit a raise.

I dont know of anybody in the private sector working for the same wages five years in a row.

Well you meet one here with me pal...I know plenty..is that the game we are playing I know a guy who has a goldfish whos antie says so?

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

There you go, perhaps introducing/increasing prices for all public services, Education/Health/Policing etc on an end user pays private sector prices basis would work .

Right well then does that mean I no longer have to pay any income tax as that is what this is basically for ? These services? I would have no problem with that I would save a fortune

fliball123

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I don't have any problem with them asking for a pay increase and no one should either . They need to do a full evaluation of the civil service from top to bottom . If anyone is found to be bad at their job then they should face the sack . I don't think this country should have the whole jobs for life like some of these people have . If they worked in the private sector I'm sure a proportion of them would have been fired by now . So do a full evaluation and pay people to do a good job and get rid of the rest .

They get increments this is a pay rise..my god they were not stopped even during the mare that was 2009 - 2011 and now they want more pay rises...Where are these people living..Did Enda find a money tree out the back where the 200billion+ we owe and the 10billion we need to find this year is bearing fruit?

marc_faber

JDD wrote: »

If we compare the Irish Government to a private employer, this is the situation we were and now are in. Economy goes into tailspin, Ireland Inc teeters towards bankruptcy. In order to avoid this they increase the price paid for the services they provide (taxes) and cut the costs of those services (2 x pay cuts and 1 x pension levy for staff).

Now, there are hints that Ireland Inc are recovering, and they face a dilemma. Should they now reduce the price of their services (taxes) or increase payment to their staff? Most people would say that you would only increase your staff payments if there was a risk that skilled people would leave. Keep in mind those of you who say that PS workers should only get a pay rise if procedures are changed so that low performing staff can be fired, and that it was the low performing staff that contributed to the economic collapse in the first place. I have no issue with the procedures being changed, but saying that low performing staff were the issue is a little off the mark. Public service entities were understaffed for the job they had to do, and were staffed with people who did not have the right experience. The reason why PS entities were benchmarked at the start of the boom was that they couldn't hold onto their experienced staff with the pay that was on offer. Even when benchmarked, certainly in the financial services sector, the private sector could always pay more. Since the bust, excellent experienced personnel have flooded the public service, mostly because they were the only ones hiring and the job security was attractive in such a volatile market. Now that the private sector is recovering, and since the recent PS pay cuts, we are seeing the start of a reverse flow of those excellent people back into the private sector. How is that good for the economy? How is that going to assist us from making the same mistakes as before?

Look, I believe tax cuts should be the first step if and when the economy gets to a place that it can sustain the cuts. But the pay rises can't be too far behind otherwise we're going to again end up with a public service that is staffed with the wrong people who can't get a job elsewhere.

public servants receive pay rises based on their union reps ability to extract deals out of goverment

thats all anyone needs to know , everything else is academic

DublinWriter

Please tell me it's not true that the delegates at the current two-day Union conference in Killarney are on paid leave...please tell me it ain't so...

chopper6

fliball123 wrote: »

Eh is that not what our taxes pay for so what services are these that you are on about..the last time I checked every service these days I have to pay either by direct or indirect taxes...

So you dont use public services?

Hehehe.

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

So you dont use public services?

Hehehe.

I didnt say that I said I already pay via direct and indirect taxes for services.

chopper6

marc_faber wrote: »

public servants receive pay rises based on their union reps ability to extract deals out of goverment

thats all anyone needs to know , everything else is academic

What about private servants? Do they not join unions to get more money?

Was it not the unions reccomended that DELL staff take redundancy instead of a paycut?


Oh look:

Electricians' union threatening strike so they can get more money!


A two second search dug that one up.

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

What about private servants? Do they not join unions to get more money?

Was it not the unions reccomended that DELL staff take redundancy instead of a paycut?


Oh look:

Electricians' union threatening strike so they can get more money!


A two second search dug that one up.

The difference is if Dell stop making a profit and start making a loss they will only stay in business for a limited amount of time..There is not a snowballs chance in hell they would be allowed go over 200billion in debt or borrow 10 billion a year in order to pay increments and payrises and to keep the show on the road..The company would hit the wall like many private sector companies did during the bust..at one stage 5 private sector companies a week were going to the wall..Yet with these facts freely available to the unions and seeing the tax payer stumping up more for property tax and with the impending water charges coming in..these clowns are looking for a payrise...They are living in a parallel universe

creedp

marc_faber wrote: »

public servants receive pay rises based on their union reps ability to extract deals out of goverment

thats all anyone needs to know , everything else is academic

Union leaders should be sacked so since all they've managed to extract since 2008 is pay cuts and reductions in terms and conditions.

Hesh's Umpire

DublinWriter wrote: »

Please tell me it's not true that the delegates at the current two-day Union conference in Killarney are on paid leave...please tell me it ain't so...

Would that not be their statutory entitlement and apply to any person, public or private sector?

fliball123

creedp wrote: »

Union leaders should be sacked so since all they've managed to extract since 2008 is pay cuts and reductions in terms and conditions.

And what about increments..? They should be told fo phuck off by the gov ....they are stirring at the moment ... They got pay cuts as the 2008 pay and pensions bill was off the scale in any comparison ..in comparison to the private sector or to other public sectors in the OCED..Yet when the benchmarking word was uttered in 2008 not one union leader had the sack to agree to a third round of benchmarking against the then very weak private sector. In fact government said all details of how the first two rounds of benchmarking that took place were no longer available ... Go figure

Vizzy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

or by increasing efficiency and reducing costs. But they've been 'trying' that for the last few years and failing miserably.

It is always nice to get an international perspective on the situation.

The Muppet

fliball123 wrote: »

Eh is that not what our taxes pay for so what services are these that you are on about..the last time I checked every service these days I have to pay either by direct or indirect taxes...

obviously our taxes are not covering the full cost,otherwise we wouldn't have to be borrowing would we?

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

obviously our taxes are not covering the full cost,otherwise we wouldn't have to be borrowing would we?

Hang on there pal for all of these so called services..I pay a wedge of cash on earnings before 32k, then after 32k I have to pay 52 cent in every euro I earn in income tax to cover this sh1te..Not to mention Carbon tax, VAT, Car tax, Water charges ( coming soon), DIRT, property tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, I pay if I ring for a fire brigade, I have to pay for my medical bills, I pay for school uniforms and books, I had to pay for 3rd level education.

So any service I get I have to pay for with a few exceptions.

When you pool that all together I pay way up and above for what in a lot of areas is a dirt poor service

chopper6

fliball123 wrote: »

The difference is if Dell stop making a profit and start making a loss they will only stay in business for a limited amount of time..There is not a snowballs chance in hell they would be allowed go over 200billion in debt or borrow 10 billion a year in order to pay increments and payrises and to keep the show on the road

So you reckon increments and "pay rises" are costing 10 billion a year?

Or is the small matter of running the ****ing country with all the costs that countries incur?

Such as transport
social welfare
healthcare
second level education
third level education
policing
Govt departments,
infastructure
transport
roadbuilding
Social services
Prisons
Hospitals

etc etc

Some idiots think this country should be run like a business :rolleyes:

chopper6

fliball123 wrote: »

I had to pay for 3rd level education.

No you didnt...unless you went to a private college.

see that's where alot of my tax money goes...subsidising college for people who can't afford to go privately.

ryan101

I think the media is being more than mischievous in trying to divide ordinary working people yet again.

This economy needs to stay competitive, tax breaks would be a better bet, with perhaps restoring pay for the lower grades, but as for all those legions of "managers" in the public service . . . . no way. Just my 2 cent.

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

So you reckon increments and "pay rises" are costing 10 billion a year?

Or is the small matter of running the ****ing country with all the costs that countries incur?

Such as transport
social welfare
healthcare
second level education
third level education
policing
Govt departments,
infastructure
transport
roadbuilding
Social services
Prisons
Hospitals

etc etc

Some idiots think this country should be run like a business :rolleyes:

Read again I put in and also keep the show on the road meaning all other expenses that the state pay out. They were costing somewhere in the region of 150million to 250million each year over the last 4/5 years if I remember correctly..So relax a bit and read the post before spouting off.

As for your last quip ..Some idiots think the tax payers money is their own private money tree which should be used public sector pay rises.. So do you think we should continue borrowing billions and billions in the public sectors name? remember the spirralling debt is as much due to the public sector overspend over the last decade as it is to do with dole or the banks

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

No you didnt...unless you went to a private college.

see that's where alot of my tax money goes...subsidising college for people who can't afford to go privately.

I went to trinity college as a mature student and I paid a shed load of cash..nearly 20k for the privilege

Barely There

fliball123 wrote: »

Hang on there pal for all of these so called services..I pay a wedge of cash on earnings before 32k, then after 32k I have to pay 52 cent in every euro I earn in income tax to cover this sh1te..Not to mention Carbon tax, VAT, Car tax, Water charges ( coming soon), DIRT, property tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, I pay if I ring for a fire brigade, I have to pay for my medical bills, I pay for school uniforms and books, I had to pay for 3rd level education.

So any service I get I have to pay for with a few exceptions.

When you pool that all together I pay way up and above for what in a lot of areas is a dirt poor service

The majority of your taxes go on SW, Health and Education pal.

Idbatterim

Some idiots think this country should be run like a business

point taken, but some think it should be a charity to some, on the taxpayers hard work...

fliball123

Barely There wrote: »

The majority of your taxes go on SW, Health and Education pal.

Health 70% of its budget is used for wages and Education 80% of its budget is used for wages..They are all workers who are part of the public service..Nice try do.. I agree with you on the Social welfare but that bill is coming down thank god.

DublinWriter

fliball123 wrote: »

Health 70% of its budget is used for wages and Education 80% of its budget is used for wages..

...and how much of that is comprised of bloated middle-management?

God forbid we should have two Clerical Officers from different departments talk to each other without going through their respective EOs, HEOs and APs.

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

I agree with you on the Social welfare but that bill is coming down thank god.

Unfortunately not.

See here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsapril2014/#.U1qGr_ldWSo

See tables 1 and 4 for Social Benefits expenditure.

2009 = 28,471m

2011 = 28,952m

2013 = 28,559m

Flat over 5 years.

Payment rates have fallen, but more recipients.

fliball123

DublinWriter wrote: »

...and how much of that is comprised of bloated middle-management?

God forbid we should have two Clerical Officers from different departments talk to each other without going through their respective EOs, HEOs and APs.

I couldnt give a flying phuck who gets it..I have to work damn hard to pay taxes in order to cover it...My point being no one in the public service should be getting increments or pay rises (even do they are obviously the same thing) until their employer is no longer borrowing..The tax payer is being bleed dry and if any relief is to be given it should be to them which fortunately the public sector are tax payers also.....But this should not happen until we stop borrowing

Geuze

Note that the public wage/pension bill has fallen, but Social Benefits expenditure hasn't really.


Here is the total wage/pension bill over 2009-2013:

Compensation of employees D1 20,705 19,284 19,113 18,784 18,423


More than a 2 billion fall.

Social Benefits exp is actually up over the 5 years.

ryan101

fliball123 wrote: »

Health 70% of its budget is used for wages and Education 80% of its budget is used for wages..They are all workers who are part of the public service..Nice try do.. I agree with you on the Social welfare but that bill is coming down thank god.

I've no problem with paying nurses and teachers a decent wage, I want good, happy, and able candidates attracted to and retained in those backbone professions, not leftovers.
Teachers and Nurses did not cause the problems in this country. Yet that's all we ever hear about, teachers, nurses, guards. It's an obsession while the real culprits get away scot free.

Where I see money being wasted in the public service is on the legions of managers on very fat salaries, and why do we need a department of health and a HSE for example ?

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

Note that the public wage/pension bill has fallen, but Social Benefits expenditure hasn't really.


Here is the total wage/pension bill over 2009-2013:

Compensation of employees D1 20,705 19,284 19,113 18,784 18,423


More than a 2 billion fall.

Social Benefits exp is actually up over the 5 years.

Your being a bit sneaky there
40k less working in the public sector and as far as I am aware there are no actual figures these were guestimates or projected figures back in 2012.

250k joined the dole in the same period.

Dont get me wrong I think Social welfare should be cut as well but you cannot turn and say we are not making a saving there after 250k more people join the dole queue in the last 4/5 years and when I said it was coming down I was pointing to the number on the live register..I should of clarified that.

fliball123

ryan101 wrote: »

I've no problem with paying nurses and teachers a decent wage, I want good, happy, and able candidates attracted to and retained in those backbone professions, not leftovers.
Teachers and Nurses did not cause the problems in this country. Yet that's all we ever hear about, teachers, nurses, guards. It's an obsession while the real culprits get away scot free.

Where I see money being wasted in the public service is on the legions of managers on very fat salaries, and why do we need a department of health and a HSE for example ?

They are over paid aswell , they get great benefits and pensions. Do they do a tough job yes they do but they are overpaid for it.. Tell them they are free to go else where if they think they been treated unfair here in this country. It would be a good stat to see how many people over the last decade who emigrated were formally employees of the public service.

ryan101

fliball123 wrote: »

They are over paid aswell , they get great benefits and pensions. Do they do a tough job yes they do but they are overpaid for it.. Tell them they are free to go else where if they think they been treated unfair here in this country. It would be a good stat to see how many people over the last decade who emigrated were formally employees of the public service.

I don't go along with that spin tbh.

The Muppet

fliball123 wrote: »

Hang on there pal for all of these so called services..I pay a wedge of cash on earnings before 32k, then after 32k I have to pay 52 cent in every euro I earn in income tax to cover this sh1te..Not to mention Carbon tax, VAT, Car tax, Water charges ( coming soon), DIRT, property tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, I pay if I ring for a fire brigade, I have to pay for my medical bills, I pay for school uniforms and books, I had to pay for 3rd level education.

So any service I get I have to pay for with a few exceptions.

When you pool that all together I pay way up and above for what in a lot of areas is a dirt poor service

Paying for School Books and Uniform does not go anywhere near covering the cost of educating your children now does it? It is highly subsidised by the state, can the state still afford to pay for this and similar while borrowing to pay for it?

Celticfire

fliball123 wrote: »

Hang on there pal for all of these so called services..I pay a wedge of cash on earnings before 32k, then after 32k I have to pay 52 cent in every euro I earn in income tax to cover this sh1te..Not to mention Carbon tax, VAT, Car tax, Water charges ( coming soon), DIRT, property tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, I pay if I ring for a fire brigade, I have to pay for my medical bills, I pay for school uniforms and books, I had to pay for 3rd level education.

So any service I get I have to pay for with a few exceptions.

When you pool that all together I pay way up and above for what in a lot of areas is a dirt poor service

I don't see any extra tax that you pay as a Private sector worker that I don't pay as a public sector worker. When you find one then you can spout on about how you're the overburdened taxpayer keeping the Public sector worker in the regal lifestyle. Until then Pal you're just another taxpayer, nothing special.

fliball123 wrote: »

They are over paid aswell , they get great benefits and pensions. Do they do a tough job yes they do but they are overpaid for it.. Tell them they are free to go else where if they think they been treated unfair here in this country. It would be a good stat to see how many people over the last decade who emigrated were formally employees of the public service.

Did you not meet any Nurses when you emigrated to Australia for three whole weeks a while ago but then decided to return to this country you swore a hole in the pot you couldn't bear to come back to because of your hatred of the Public sector ? (or have you forgotten?)

ryan101

What's this obsession with Guards, Nurses and Teachers, they are not the ones that wrecked this country, quite the opposite in fact, they are the ones holding it together.

fliball123

ryan101 wrote: »

I don't go along with that spin tbh.

Well your entitled to your opinion..I point you back to the question of how many people left the public service (voluntarily) during the crash as apposed to those in the private sector? If it was so bad for them there would of been thousands leaving the public sector without the redundancy handouts.

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

Paying for School Books and Uniform does not go anywhere near covering the cost of educating your children now does it? It is highly subsidised by the state, can the state still afford to pay for this and similar while borrowing to pay for it?

Currently I have a 3 year old who I pay 845 a month for creche so no one is covering phucking anything for my kid buddy.. secondly we do not get free education we pay phucking tax for this...The reason why it is so costly to educate is because we have some of the best paid teachers in the world...Why should I have to pay more in taxes to cover pay rises for these people when my income tax as far as I am aware will only get Gaurds/Ambulance (if i need them, never have so far but they do a good job) and free education for my kid (and he will be going to a private school so I will be paying that aswell but I understand the state does cover some of that cost) Free street lighting..What other services do I get for my taxes? You could argue the street cleaners but is that not part and parcel of what our property tax is paying..God forbid if I want bang for my buck..But the tax payer in the majority cannot afford pay rises for any sector. Not whilst borrowing 10 billion this year

ryan101

fliball123 wrote: »

Well your entitled to your opinion..I point you back to the question of how mnay people left the public servants (voluntarily) during the crash as apposed to those in the private sector? If it was so bad for them there would of been thousands leaving the public sector without the redundancy handouts.

How many people did not leave there even shytter private sector jobs in droves ?
Does that give employers the right to reduce pay and conditions, or freeze them in the private sector ?

fliball123

Celticfire wrote: »

I don't see any extra tax that you pay as a Private sector worker that I don't pay as a public sector worker. When you find one then you can spout on about how you're the overburdened taxpayer keeping the Public sector worker in the regal lifestyle. Until then Pal you're just another taxpayer, nothing special.





Did you not meet any Nurses when you emigrated to Australia for three whole weeks a while ago but then decided to return to this country you swore a hole in the pot you couldn't bear to come back to because of your hatred of the Public sector ? (or have you forgotten?)

Its extra charges for everyone....I never said as an individual if you look at my speak ..I have always used the phrase tax payers... I did meet nurses and I have also meet a lot of nurses in this country who are not from Ireland...Its there choice to work here or not..I do not see why I (as a tax payer) should be paying above the average for this service.. I dont have a hatred of the public service , I have a hate of the waste that goes on in there and their sense of entitlement. Not to mention the complete ignorance of the unions which represent them. I have many a friend who are guards and nurses...But god forbid as I look out at the lads slapping in my water meter I dare ask for a bit of value for money and not pay excessively for a public service that in a lot of areas is not fit for purpose.

By the way there had been phuck all public sector bashing on here for a good while and its this type of crap that the unions set in motion that kick starts it again.

fliball123

ryan101 wrote: »

What's this obsession with Guards, Nurses and Teachers, they are not the ones that wrecked this country, quite the opposite in fact, they are the ones holding it together.

With megaphones ..:)

fliball123

ryan101 wrote: »

How many people did not leave there even shytter private sector jobs in droves ?
Does that give employers the right to reduce pay and conditions, or freeze them in the private sector ?

Well nett emigration since 2008 has been somewhere in the region of 60k so that takes into account the foreign immigrants..so you do the maths there pal..

Your living in a dream land if you dont think that private sector employees didnt take hits...FFS 250k joined the dole queue...We have 1.8 million employees of that about 300k are public sector add in another 50k for quangos...so in total we have about say 1.5m private sector employees today..so losing 1/6th of jobs in a sector is not a freeze..its a phucking total annihilation and still doesnt take into account paycuts and hour cuts in the private sector...A private sector company would not exist under the realm of being 200billion in debt and borrowing 10billion..With the obvious exception that are the banks..

ryan101

fliball123 wrote: »

Well nett emigration since 2008 has been somewhere in the region of 60k so that takes into account the foreign immigrants..so you do the maths there pal..

Your living in a dream land if you dont think that private sector employees didnt take hits...FFS 250k joined the dole queue...We have 1.8 million employees of that about 300k are public sector add in another 50k for quangos...so in total we have about say 1.5m private sector employees today..so losing 1/6th of jobs in a sector is not a freeze..its a phucking total annihilation and still doesnt take into account paycuts and hour cuts in the private sector...A private sector company would not exist under the realm of being 200billion in debt and borrowing 10billion..With the obvious exception that are the banks..

Maybe you could answer the actual post, I'm not buying that spin

fliball123

ryan101 wrote: »

Maybe you could answer the actual post, I'm not buying that spin

I dont care what you buy or dont buy..the fact is on average over the last 8 years our nett emigration is 60k so 60k * 8 = just shy of 1/2 a million....I said in a previous post I would love to see how many people actually left the public service in that time and emigrated (there are no stats on it) but I can take a guess that when you being paid above the average within the OCED countries and getting annual increments not to mention a very very good pension at the end of it..the number would be very very low.

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

but I can take a guess .

That about sums it up

ryan101

fliball123 wrote: »

I dont care what you buy or dont buy..the fact is on average over the last 8 years our nett emigration is 60k so 60k * 8 = just shy of 1/2 a million....I said in a previous post I would love to see how many people actually left the public service in that time and emigrated (there are no stats on it) but I can take a guess that when you being paid above the average within the OCED countries and getting annual increments not to mention a very very good pension at the end of it..the number would be very very low.

wrong again, and I don't work in the PS

marc_faber

ryan101 wrote: »

I don't go along with that spin tbh.

teachers , nurses and guards are extremely well paid in this country if you exclude new entrants , a forty something member of any of the above professions is still on about 15% more than their counterparts in the uk and thats without comparing pensions

marc_faber

ryan101 wrote: »

I've no problem with paying nurses and teachers a decent wage, I want good, happy, and able candidates attracted to and retained in those backbone professions, not leftovers.
Teachers and Nurses did not cause the problems in this country. Yet that's all we ever hear about, teachers, nurses, guards. It's an obsession while the real culprits get away scot free.

Where I see money being wasted in the public service is on the legions of managers on very fat salaries, and why do we need a department of health and a HSE for example ?

its a childish - populist arguement to trot out slogans like " nurses didnt cause the crash "

their wasnt one single dasatardly individual who caused it , it was a myriad of reasons but when you break it all down , our spending was based on bubble revenues , nurses unions like every other union kept calling for higher wages

irish public servants should be paid around the same as their counterparts in other mid level EU nations , in reality , they are paid higher than public servants in top level nations like germany

ryan101

marc_faber wrote: »

teachers , nurses and guards are extremely well paid in this country if you exclude new entrants , a forty something member of any of the above professions is still on about 15% more than their counterparts in the uk and thats without comparing pensions

I'd be delighted to go down the UK route FOR EVERYONE. Every single job here is paid better than the UK, and taxed more. If you want UK wages then everyone needs to take them, and that includes the much cheaper UK prices in the shops, and the lower UK taxes.

The Muppet

fliball123 wrote: »

Currently I have a 3 year old who I pay 845 a month for creche so no one is covering phucking anything for my kid buddy.. secondly we do not get free education we pay phucking tax for this...The reason why it is so costly to educate is because we have some of the best paid teachers in the world...Why should I have to pay more in taxes to cover pay rises for these people when my income tax as far as I am aware will only get Gaurds/Ambulance (if i need them, never have so far but they do a good job) and free education for my kid (and he will be going to a private school so I will be paying that aswell but I understand the state does cover some of that cost) Free street lighting..What other services do I get for my taxes? You could argue the street cleaners but is that not part and parcel of what our property tax is paying..God forbid if I want bang for my buck..But the tax payer in the majority cannot afford pay rises for any sector. Not whilst borrowing 10 billion this year

Who pays you children's allowance. Are you availing of the free year in preschool Who pays for that? Can we afford to borrow to pay for such services

it's not just public service wages that are the cause of the country having to borrow to meet the country's commitments .

You want a bang for you book at the expense of public service workers living standard. These workers pay the same taxes , mortgage rates , Childcare cost , living expenses etc as the private sector workers. They were forced to take big reductions in their take home pay and have not had any wage increase on six years. Very few of them are living the high life on their salary I think they have every right to look to reverse the cuts to get their income back to pre 2008 levels