Building after the British left

Victor

These houses were some of the first houses built after independence - on the site of the former Linenhall Barracks, which was burnt down during the Easter Rising. Note they have slate roofs, but plastered walls, which is a relatively rare combination for such houses.

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.351211,-6.272035&spn=0.001127,0.006899&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.351212,-6.272033&panoid=JmDmw5b-lo5N0qKN8q1tgg&cbp=11,335.84,,0,-1.9

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715045,734857,7,9

willfarmerman

dubhthach wrote: »

Well prime example of a "mega project" by new Free State Government was Ardnacrusha power station, obviously before this there was alot of rebuilding required for infrastructure given rail bridges destroyed during the civil war.

There was no money left in the kitty. The state if anything owed the British money under the terms of the treaty eg. share of Imperial debt -- unstated amount (abrogated in 1926 I believe) + the annual annuity for the farmers (land act schemes etc.)

Ardnacrusha cost over £5million pounds at the time, the entire state budget for 1925 was £25m !

Designed and built by German engineers...

pedroeibar1

Victor wrote: »

These houses were some of the first houses built after independence - on the site of the former Linenhall Barracks, which was burnt down during the Easter Rising. Note they have slate roofs, but plastered walls, which is a relatively rare combination for such houses.
https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.351211,-6.272035&spn=0.001127,0.006899&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.351212,-6.272033&panoid=JmDmw5b-lo5N0qKN8q1tgg&cbp=11,335.84,,0,-1.9

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715045,734857,7,9

Interesting housing - also bears out the terrible things that are done in Ireland in the name of 'fashion'. Most contain the very worst of what sadly is regarded by too many as ‘stylish’ glazing, shiny artificial slates, specimens with stuck-on artificial stone, plastic bricks and pillars, not to mention the one with balustrade.

The initial plan for housing there dates to 1912, for a proposed designed by Charles McCarthy, the City architect. Irish born & trained, the son of an architect. He designed many public buildings, including libraries, fire stations, the Bolton Street Technical School, and over 1,700 dwellings under the 'Housing of the Working Classes Acts.'

What was built (c1926) was by Frederick Hicks, an Englishman, who designed the 63 two-storey houses for Linenhall Public Utility Society. No.20 looks as if it has not been touched, except for the front door, as it has the steel windows that were being introduced here around that time and the old roof slate pattern. Hicks came to Dublin just after he qualified and was very prolific in his works, ranging from workers cottages to the Foxrock home for Sam Beckett’s father and Rathmines Tech and Library.

dubhthach

willfarmerman wrote: »

Designed and built by German engineers...

But envisioned by an Irish engineer who had worked for Siemens in Germany before coming back to Ireland and then selling the idea to the Free State government, it's no coincidence as a result that Siemens were chosen over say a British firm (which would have been the "safe bet" at the time)

It's no wonder therefore that the British press at the time were very much against the project, basically calling it a white elephant. It was the biggest project that Siemens were involved with it in the immediate post-war period and provided them with some much need hard foreign currency.

Jellybaby1

Just to give everyone here a head's up on a TV programme concerning this subject:

Building Ireland
RTE1 Tuesday 8th July 7pm
"New series in which a team of experts explore some of the finest example of Ireland's building and engineering heritage."

They must have been following this thread! I'm due some royalties methinks!

chughes

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Just to give everyone here a head's up on a TV programme concerning this subject:

Building Ireland
RTE1 Tuesday 8th July 7pm
"New series in which a team of experts explore some of the finest example of Ireland's building and engineering heritage."

They must have been following this thread! I'm due some royalties methinks!

I'm a mature student in St Pats, Drumcondra and one of the presenters is one of my geography lecturers, Susan Hegarty. I'm looking forward to this series.

pedroeibar1

There was a great article by Graham Hickey on Dublin's Georgian Squares in yesterday's Sunday Times magazine. Also, if anyone is passing by Merrion Sq. there are great models of Eileen Gray's houses in the Irish Archi Archive @ No. 45.

tac foley

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

There was a great article by Graham Hickey on Dublin's Georgian Squares in yesterday's Sunday Times magazine. Also, if anyone is passing by Merrion Sq. there are great models of Eileen Gray's houses in the Irish Archi Archive @ No. 45.

Sir, by your very use of the term 'Georgian', you have distanced your comment from 'Irish' architecture.

The fact is that prior to the Anglo-Norman invasion and occupation of the island, there were NO non-eclesiastical structures that have remained in existence that could rightly be called Irish vernacular architecture.

Since the occupation there are, indeed, countless examples of cottages and other rural dwellings, but where are the entirely Irish-designed 'great houses' that are devoid of any external, ie., European architectural influence?

IOW, what would an entirely ethnic - non-eclesiastical - large building look like? Sure, there must have been great halls - 'The harp that once through Tara's halls, etc' - but where are they now?

Or have I got the whole thing wrong again?

tac

chughes

tac foley wrote: »

Sir, by your very use of the term 'Georgian', you have distanced your comment from 'Irish' architecture.

I have to say that I disagree with the premise that Georgian architecture in Ireland isn't Irish.
The fact is that during the time these buildings were built, Ireland was a part of the British Empire. In many cases the houses were built of materials sourced in Ireland. The style of houses being built did copy the architectural style of houses built in Britain but these, in turn, would have had a European influence.
Please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting you but I have the impression that you are saying that any architectural styles in Ireland that have an English influence are not, by definition, Irish. This would mean that unless its a crannog or a ringfort its not really Irish.

Jellybaby1

And I think I've disturbed a wasp's nest again, sorry about that. I thought this had run its course, this has all been discussed before in this thread fascinating as it all was. The TV programme should be interesting and I am looking forward to it.

tac foley

chughes wrote: »

Please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting you but I have the impression that you are saying that any architectural styles in Ireland that have an English influence are not, by definition, Irish. This would mean that unless its a crannog or a ringfort its not really Irish.

I'd say that just about nails it for me, at least.

Neither ringforts nor crannogs are uniquely Irish, either, but you know that. Ring/hillforts can be found all over mainland UK, particularly in the west of the island, although there is one not far from here, just outside Cambridge. And crannogs, too, wherever the landscape is conducive to their construction.

What then, bereft of ANY external influence whatsoever, it it were possible, do you suppose that a solely Irish architectural style would be, and is there anything at all, today, that reflects that style?

I would say that there is not.

Best.

tac

Tombo2001

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

You put some effort into that list, Victor, thanks. Had a scan through, most of the buildings don’t attract my eye, but these ones from your list which stand out for me.

O’Connell Street still has some beauty, if you look very hard beyond the tack, its there.
Fairview
Cottages in cul-de-sac, Quarry Road, Cabra
Flats complex in James’ Street
Mount Brown cottages
Richmond Hospital (could easily be the site of a Victorian murder mystery)
Shrewsbury Road
Foxrock (Tudor style building)
Brighton Road Foxrock
Cork Street (I think it’s a Nursing Home? – I was always attracted by the little balcony).

I quite understand when you say that architecture is not country-specific but some of those awful buildings just scream ‘Russia’ to me or ‘Germany’ as mentioned before. Some may appreciate that type of architecture, but its not for me.

After all your work, I can’t say that I have ever seen any building that stands out as being of ‘Irish design’ or ‘typically Irish’ except the country cottages and longhouses but they could be found in Scotland and other places also. It’s different when it comes to the other arts of course, paintings, sculptures, jewellery etc. But Irish design in architecture just does not seem to exist does it?

This began as a history question but is turning into an arts question and I apologise for that. I wanted Ireland to have produced something wonderful but I haven’t found it yet. Someone may yet point me toward it.

I've lived in that area for the past ten years. While the houses are small, I think they are lovely. You get a similar type of house in many parts of the city, all built I would think in the 1930s. The nicest ones in my view are around Walsh Road in Glasnevin and in Marino. I believe all these houses were privately built. The local authority houses built in the 1950s are not as nice.

The problem with these areas are that they were never protected. They were never seen as being of arcitectural heritage.

Specifically, it has never been a problem for a Cabra resident to rip out their front gardens and put in a driveway.

This has meant a change from a fairly uniform consistent street where houses are differentiated by the colour of the roses in the front garden to one where its all dirty cobblelock with hideous looking mansion style gates. Also, the original windows were gorgeous on these houses, but around in East Cabra I'd say there are just maybe 3 out of 300 houses with the original windows left. And again, the replacement windows are often quite hideous.

In short, while I love that part of Cabra, I believe the street scape would have been far far nicer in the 1950s than it is today.

pedroeibar1

tac foley wrote: »

Sir, by your very use of the term 'Georgian', you have distanced your comment from 'Irish' architecture.

The fact is that prior to the Anglo-Norman invasion and occupation of the island, there were NO non-eclesiastical structures that have remained in existence that could rightly be called Irish vernacular architecture.

Since the occupation there are, indeed, countless examples of cottages and other rural dwellings, but where are the entirely Irish-designed 'great houses' that are devoid of any external, ie., European architectural influence?

IOW, what would an entirely ethnic - non-eclesiastical - large building look like? Sure, there must have been great halls - 'The harp that once through Tara's halls, etc' - but where are they now?

Or have I got the whole thing wrong again?

tac

Tac,
At this stage all I can do is recommend to you 'The Third Policeman', a work by Flann O'Brian. In it he has an all-powerful policeman character who built a policestation into the walls of a house. Another lived in a hole in the ground. Both did so to save on the rates - (quote :- Sixteen and eightpence in the pound with thruppence in the pound for bad yellow water that I would not use and fourpence by your kind leave for technical education.)
Way back there was a seafaring saint, Brendan, who before he went wandering afloat , retired to a cave to escape the thronging masses and do a bit of penance. The locality and Parish - near Tralee - is now called O'Brennan (from Uaimh Brennain) but the cave no longer exists - it was hacked out and used as a quarry. So there you have it, the early Irish architecture up to the present day was/is troglodytic and destroyed. as for poor old Tara, her walls were timber and secumbed to the worm, years ago.

edit - Georgian is primarily Palladian, from a gent who lived in the bogs behind Venice so it IS appropriate to Ireland.

tac foley

Ah, thank you, that performs an excellent summation and clarification for me.

Tom Moore got it right then, with 'Tara's vaulted halls no longer ring...to the music of voice or string'.

Sad, eh?

tac

ChicagoJoe

tac foley wrote: »

I'd say that just about nails it for me, at least.

Neither ringforts nor crannogs are uniquely Irish, either, but you know that. Ring/hillforts can be found all over mainland UK, particularly in the west of the island, although there is one not far from here, just outside Cambridge. And crannogs, too, wherever the landscape is conducive to their construction.

What then, bereft of ANY external influence whatsoever, it it were possible, do you suppose that a solely Irish architectural style would be, and is there anything at all, today, that reflects that style?

I would say that there is not.

Best.

tac

Ring/hillforts are indeed found in Britain, but they can also be found in other areas of north west Europe, the Breton region of France in particular demonstrating us once again where our Celtic ancestors came from. They do in fact tend to be much more common in Ireland than anywhere else in Europe.

In ancient Ireland dwellings and fortifications were almost exclusively built of wood, hence only the foundations they were built on sometimes remains. But from the 9th century on stone and mortar became used, a fine example been round towers which were developed as a solely Irish architectural style .