Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": *HAVE* read the books

Peregrine

Notes:

Styr's raiders are approaching
Thorne is already at the Wall
Bronn asking Jaime "Are you gonna fight for him now?"
Brienne being sent away with Oathkeeper
And this:

December2012

In light of last weeks scene between Cersei and Jamie, it would be a relief if there was a Scarlett O'Hara / gone with the wind type of scene for Cersei.

In case you don't know, Rhett picks Scarlett up over his shoulder and carries her off to bed for some sex. She is protesting. But the next scene you see her in is post coital and all loved up, smug and satisfied with herself - the idea being that similar to Asha and Qarl this is just the way they "play".

Cos that scene really was awful and given the talk from the Directors it seems it was not supposed to be as rapey as it clearly was!

Barna77

Well Cersie and Jamie look like getting on very well there after last week's episode....

On a side note, I read an interview with some of the people in the production team, saw sketches of Braavosi people wearing black and white... So are we having Cat of the canals this season?

Washington Irving

Barna77 wrote: »

Well Cersie and Jamie look like getting on very well there after last week's episode....

On a side note, I read an interview with some of the people in the production team, saw sketches of Braavosi people wearing black and white... So are we having Cat of the canals this season?

Probably not, but Stannis will be taking a stop there on his journey north.

Liam O

Might be time to stop watching the show...

Sea Sharp

Well, well, well.
They deviated from the books quite a lot in the last 6 minutes. Perhaps taking new info from The Winds of Winter?

Also, perhaps my memory is a bit fuzzy, but Bran, Hodor etc being held captive in Craster's keep; that wasn't in the book was it??

It seems they're changing the story of Jon being sent out to talk with Mance to Jon going back to Craster's keep and eventually bumping into Mance.

Graham_B18C

Enjoyed this week's far more than last week's. Majorly deviated from the books though, doesn't bother me as long as it's done well.

Bran and his crew were never held at Craster's and Jon never went north to Craster's after returning either. Didn't Jon send ghost back to the wall when he was in the north? Also Sam never told Jon about meeting or helping Bran in the book.

Very enjoyable episode though. I really hoped Meera would stab that dude in his eye after him bragging about being able to kill any knight. I'm still hopeful that's how they'll escape!

mrkite77

This episode annoyed me... I don't understand why there's so much filler when they have so much story to get through.

I'm guessing Cold Hands will slaughter the people at Craster's Keep and rescue Bran? Or maybe Snow will do it, and Cold Hands won't be in it.

Why is Vargo Hoat at the wall? Shouldn't he be getting dismembered by The Mountain right about now?

Liam O

mrkite77 wrote: »

This episode annoyed me... I don't understand why there's so much filler when they have so much story to get through.

I'm guessing Cold Hands will slaughter the people at Craster's Keep and rescue Bran? Or maybe Snow will do it, and Cold Hands won't be in it.

Why is Vargo Hoat at the wall? Shouldn't he be getting dismembered by The Mountain right about now?

I reckon he'll be killed by Jon when he tries to kill Bran, GRRM apparently wouldn't let them call him Vargo Hoat in the show because he was such a deviation from the book character.

bopper

Understandably a lot of book readers will probably be pissed off, but I'm personally glad of this new storyline they've given Bran. Probably for the first time since the very start of the show I'm actually looking forward to seeing what happens with his character next week.

I'm not sure if they're showing us something due to appear in WOW, I think they've probably just added an extra hurdle to Bran's journey to flesh out the story a bit more. I mean there's only so many scenes they can show of him, Meera, Jojen and Hodor walking along somewhere really cold.

Probably the slowest episode of the series for me so far, but I loved the last few minutes.

mrkite77

This comment in the non-reader thread made me laugh:

I hope the Daenerys story arc picks up soon, I'm not interested in that at all.

I expect that comment to be included after every episode over the next 2 seasons...

Liam O

mrkite77 wrote: »

This comment in the non-reader thread made me laugh:



I expect that comment to be included after every episode over the next 2 seasons...

Not if they handle it right. The growth of the Dragons and politics of Meereen are quite interesting when you're not rushing through it.

turnikett1

Haven't seen it yet but unfortunate to hear that non-book readers are getting fed up with Daenerys' scenes... They have been pretty much my favourite chapters since book 1, and they only got better and better in my opinion.

Mr Freeze

turnikett1 wrote: »

They have been pretty much my favourite chapters since book 1, and they only got better and better in my opinion.

Haven't seen the episode yet but it is not surprising that non-book readers are getting fed up with her.

I liked her in Book 1 and 3, I thought she did nothing in 2, but in ADWD, she really annoyed me, and became my least favourite character.

I can definitely see her show screen time being minimized to hide how slow her storyline is becoming.

Tom.D.BJJ

Liam O wrote: »

Might be time to stop watching the show...

It jumped the ****ing shark with that last scene. Was that a crown?

Sleepy

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Haven't seen the episode yet but it is not surprising that non-book readers are getting fed up with her.

I liked her in Book 1 and 3, I thought she did nothing in 2, but in ADWD, she really annoyed me, and became my least favourite character.

I can definitely see her show screen time being minimized to hide how slow her storyline is becoming.

Read this and you might find some of your love for Dany returning: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

Mr Freeze

Sleepy wrote: »

Read this and you might find some of your love for Dany returning: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

That's blocked here at work, but I may have read that before, it has been posted here before I think.

RobbingBandit

Bronn backhanding Jamie with the golden hand, ha ha ha.

Rosy Posy

I'm actually quite enjoying the major departure from the book storyline. I wonder if it's because they knew that if they tried to be faithful to the book they'd have a million book fans nit picking over it so they just decided to make something totally new. In the book it was the mutineers from Crasters that came after Sam and Gilly in Wight form, but obviously this can't happen now, and in general you'd imagine that they'd let them alone after their sacrifice. I found that scene hard to watch (I have a baby of similar age). Yer man the murderer who's leading the mutineers appears to be a new invention too. He creeps me right out, I'd be happy to see him spiked on the end of Meera's frog spear. It looks like they're shaping up for a showdown between the Nights Watch and the mutineers with the wild cards of Bran, Locke, and the white walkers thrown into the mix. It's a good way to inject drama into Brans otherwise staid storyline. Also they could hardly have two and a half seasons of him having prophetic visions and turning into a tree. I really hope they introduce Coldhands at some stage. All in all it's enhancing my enjoyment of the show being left guessing on some counts at least.

turnikett1

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Haven't seen the episode yet but it is not surprising that non-book readers are getting fed up with her.

I liked her in Book 1 and 3, I thought she did nothing in 2, but in ADWD, she really annoyed me, and became my least favourite character.

I can definitely see her show screen time being minimized to hide how slow her storyline is becoming.

What was wrong with her chapters in ADWD? I guess I can agree herself as a character got kind of annoying as time went on - it's just the setting/world/location, the other characters and the story that I love from the Dany chapters, maybe not Dany herself. The Tyrion chapters from ADWD were also a favourite and also Arya in Braavos with the Faceless Men - absolutely class!

Shame about her really, oh well, only another 1/2ish years till we get to see the Faceless Men on screen!

December2012

I thought that episode was brilliant! Im kind of speechless!

Mr Freeze

turnikett1 wrote: »

What was wrong with her chapters in ADWD?

There was nothing wrong with her chapters, I just didn't like what she was doing.

She seemed to be doing a really bad job of ruling. And then Quentyn shows up and is offering her the armies of Dorne to take Westeros! "Nah" she thinks, "he looks a boy, I like men like Daario, F You Dornish boy".

I don't think we are supposed to like Dany at this point, she is proving to be very naive (yes she is a child afterall), but she was good advisors, but ignores them, constantly.

ArmaniJeanss

turnikett1 wrote: »

What was wrong with her chapters in ADWD?

For me is was the supporting cast that was the problem with the chapters. Hizdaq, Shavepate, Green Grace, Harpy, various slaveowners and bands of sellswords outside.
I never felt interested in any of them the way I was interested in the minor characters in Kings Landing or Winterfell or at the Wall. Her interactions with Drogo (and the rest of the khal), Illyrio and Viserys back in Book1 were much more personally involving.

RobbingBandit

Too much deviation from the books, interesting episode seeing the makings of the white walkers was good, poor hodor.

podgemonster

It was an unsettling yet addictive feelin watching the show deviate like that. Physically jumped when summer got trapped!

We will always know where Bran is headed once he does gets out of this bind but we won't know when Locke will make his play and if Jon and Bran will intereact which makes it really important.

The shot of the land of always Winter is jaw dropping and the perception that some sort of civility or order exists within the walkers is another reveal. The shot of the Nights Knight chilled me!

Mr.Prodston

What in seven hells was that at the end?!

I'm trying to figure out if I'm excited or disgusted. If that is something from The Winds of Winter then I really don't think that sort of stuff is on. I mean chances are that's all we'll see of the White Walkers all season but still that's pretty much giving book readers the middle finger and I thought the writers and GRRM himself would have known better. As somebody who goes out of my way to prevent anyone I know, or don't know from seeing spoilers it's not fair as I would much prefer to find out when the book is released!

In saying all that it was the most intriguing and riveting 5 minutes of the show since I read the books after season 2 :pac: I really want to know more about North of the wall and the WW!

As for Bran I don't mind adding the story in but having Sam tell Jon (and not seeing that conversation with Sam for that matter) and knowing Bran is alive and north of the wall then that doesn't sit well with me. It could have been a good way of introducing Coldhands and presumably still will be. I'd imagine Jon et al will run into Mance and won't reach Crasters at all.

Littlefinger's accent was a little more consistent this week too. Tommen was truly like the cat that got the cream :P

Tom.D.BJJ

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

What in seven hells was that at the end?!

I'm trying to figure out if I'm excited or disgusted. If that is something from The Winds of Winter then I really don't think that sort of stuff is on. I mean chances are that's all we'll see of the White Walkers all season but still that's pretty much giving book readers the middle finger and I thought the writers and GRRM himself would have known better. As somebody who goes out of my way to prevent anyone I know, or don't know from seeing spoilers it's not fair as I would much prefer to find out when the book is released!

In saying all that it was the most intriguing and riveting 5 minutes of the show since I read the books after season 2 :pac: I really want to know more about North of the wall and the WW!

HBO ****ed up

http://i.imgur.com/G1pdcan.png

subsequently changed to

http://imgur.com/2UahBxn

That's a crown, and as such a huge spoiler for future books

http://i.imgur.com/HMZwi6y.jpg

KonFusion

That ending........

Normally as a book reader I've the smug satisfaction of knowing what's going on :P Not today. That is some serious book deviation.

Also can someone explain to me what the lad from the Dreadfort was doing in the watch? I don't remember that from the books. (did it even happen in the books?)

TimeToShine

Quite a bit of filler nonsense but WTF was that at the end?

Kunkka

I'm looking forward to watching this now!

Oranage2

What character Locke suppose to be? Obviously hoat but who know?

Did cersei send one of her guards she was banging to the wal,l is that him, can someone remind why she did it again

Not sure how I feel about these potential spoilers...don't think I'd mind if the book was soon but it's presumably still a while away so we won't know for ages... o.O

Tristram

Feck sake, the "*HAVE* read the books" thread isn't even safe any more with potential spoilers like that. Need a new "*HAVE* read the books *NO SPOILERS FROM SHOW*" thread. :eek:

Not sure what to do now

StaticAge11

It seems the tables have turned. Normally its the book readers teasing the non-book readers with spoilers, now its the other way around!

flyingoutside

It is the night's king isn't it?

Iwasfrozen

Yey Night's King! Well that answers some questions from the books.

Daith

StaticAge11 wrote: »

It seems the tables have turned. Normally its the book readers teasing the non-book readers with spoilers, now its the other way around!

It's worse than that. The non book readers are on a level playing field to us now! :eek:

username123

Daith wrote: »

It's worse than that. The non book readers are on a level playing field to us now! :eek:

We have all become Unsullied.

PhlegmyMoses

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yey Night's King! Well that answers some questions from the books.

What does it answer? Whether the WWs have a heirarchy?

Mr Freeze

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

What does it answer? Whether the WWs have a hierarchy?

I suppose it doesn't. They were shown laughing and taunting their victims in the prologue to AGOT, so they are obviously intelligent.

It's obvious that there has to be some sort of hierarchy, but they are just much more mysterious in the books, because you see so little of them, and hear tales of the wights, etc.

PhlegmyMoses

Weird. You fixed my misspelling in your quote.

Luft Ballon

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

What in seven hells was that at the end?!

I'm trying to figure out if I'm excited or disgusted. If that is something from The Winds of Winter then I really don't think that sort of stuff is on. I mean chances are that's all we'll see of the White Walkers all season but still that's pretty much giving book readers the middle finger and I thought the writers and GRRM himself would have known better. As somebody who goes out of my way to prevent anyone I know, or don't know from seeing spoilers it's not fair as I would much prefer to find out when the book is released!

I don't think thats fair, the show is its own beast and has never claimed to be an exactly faithful recreation of the books, and chances are the show will have to overtake the books at some stage anyway

Mr Freeze

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Weird. You fixed my misspelling in your quote.

OCD :pac:

Mr.Prodston

Luft Ballon wrote: »

I don't think thats fair, the show is its own beast and has never claimed to be an exactly faithful recreation of the books, and chances are the show will have to overtake the books at some stage anyway

What also isn't fair is not quoting the next thing I said:

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

In saying all that it was the most intriguing and riveting 5 minutes of the show since I read the books after season 2 :pac: I really want to know more about North of the wall and the WW!

Which really just highlights my frustration at wanting to know more about that storyline especially when it seems to have been shoehorned in as part of storyline that could potentially diverge massively depending on whether Jon and Bran meet.

It's something we certainly didn't expect to see so soon. I get they're different things but it just seemed out of place to me. Like I said I was intrigued with it all the same.

celica00

can't wait to watch it now! hope the WTF moment isnt as bad as the red wedding WTF moment :O

Barna77

What happened there? Bran and co at Craster's. Jon knowing that Bran is alive.

Also, pretty much Joffrey's death explained in your face

And the end...

:eek:

titan18

That looked like it could have been a future spoiler, so fcuk this, I'm done with the show. Could be the first of many

Son0vagun

Great episode. Loved the deviations from the book. Hopefully there'll be more to come!

bopper

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Littlefinger's accent was a little more consistent this week too. Tommen was truly like the cat that got the cream :P

Did anyone else think they noticed Littlefinger's dialogue go up and down in volume? It sounded like he some of his lines were redubbed to me.

The Margaery/Tommen scene was a bit :eek: I though she was actually going to kiss him on the mouth at the end!

Paddy Cow

I loved this episode. The deviations from the book are great. Normally I'm sitting there knowing what's going to happen but for the first time I genuinely don't know how an arc is going to play out and it makes it much more fun.

titan18

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I loved this episode. The deviations from the book are great. Normally I'm sitting there knowing what's going to happen but for the first time I genuinely don't know how an arc is going to play out and it makes it much more fun.

I'd rather be like that reading the book. The show is a poor imitation of it