Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": *HAVE* read the books

Witcher

Gbear wrote: »

I don't really get how Locke could convince Jon he's from the Stormlands given that he'd know house Locke are sworn to the Dreadfort.
And that he's a northerner.

Locke isn't from a noble house, he's just a man at arms.

There's a House Locke in the books but it's not sworn to the Boltons.

December2012

bopper wrote: »

Well if Penny didn't appear at Joffrey's wedding then we know she won't appear until next series. I think it makes sense that they wouldn't feature her in that episode because there was so much going on anyway, trying to introduce another character might have been a bit much, especially one who won't appear again for the whole series.

I think Penny was Robb Stark in the War of the Five Kings display. You never saw "his" head.

Gbear

Blay wrote: »

Locke isn't from a noble house, he's just a man at arms.

There's a House Locke in the books but it's not sworn to the Boltons.

Yeah. I was puzzled because it says on the wiki that House Locke is sworn to the Boltons but I assumed that meant they were their direct underlings. It just refers to the Boltons being the Overlords of the North.

They're actually from the same bracket as all the other noble houses.

He could be from house Locke. If he was one of the lesser sons it's not inconceivable that he'd take up service in a house just up the road.
Lord, Castellan and the likes are the only titles up north, by and large. You wouldn't expect him to be a "Ser".

Although he probably ruled that out that in this episode when he referred to Thorne as highborn, which would imply Locke isn't.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

It's likely that Jon might not have been as well educated as the Stark children. IIRC there was a scene, either in season 1 or 2 where Bran was being taught the various houses of the North to prepare him to rule in Robb's place, and given that Jon won't get to rule Winterfell it might have been unnecessary to teach him.

The suggestion from Jon's flashbacks is that they did everything together because they were the same age.

I'd say Jon sat in on all the lessons Robb had, just the same as they learned how to fight together.

I can't imagine Ned would want to exclude him and, unlike the girls, it doesn't seem like Cat had much influence in raising the boys.

mrkite77

Noopti wrote: »

Public apology.... :rolleyes:

He owes Theon Greyjoy a pubic apology.

RobbingBandit

longhalloween wrote: »

HAIL HYDRA!

Take out Targaryen and put in Greyjoy if you wanna go Hailing Hydra.

Liam O

Noopti wrote: »

http://m.imgur.com/a/2DtPH

This does a good job at explaining it. Although it could easily be construed from it that Margaery is involved, based on the subsequent scenes in the latest episode it is obvious she wasn't. She just innocently placed the cup on her Grandmothers table, giving her the perfect opportunity to place the poison. Even if she hadn't placed the cup there - it is a wedding feast. They would all get drunker and drunker and of course there would be plenty of opportunities to place the poison in his cup at some stage. The Queen of Thorns is a wily auld woman.

That doesn't explain shìt, the only way she could have put the strangler in is if she got up and moved 5 feet. People seem to have convinced themselves that the cup was placed in front of Olenna but at the time the camera lingered on her when Marge put it down it was on the bride and grooms table. Would have been very obvious to a lot of people if not any at the high table what happened if Olenna was to put it in at that time. What if Margaery had then drank the wine? It doesn't make sense to me, probably just more bad direction though.

Rosy Posy

celica00 wrote: »

that's embarrassing now but I read the book ages ago and forgot how Slynt is involved? Im just not good with names ha

Janos Slynt was commander of the City Watch at KL (the gold cloaks). Ned asked Littlefinger to buy their support for when he revealed that Joffery was not Roberts son and deposed him, but he was counter bribed with a Lordship (and Harrenhall in the books, not sure if it went down like that in the tv show) by the Lannisters and so ended up capturing Ned instead. If Slynt and Littlefinger had kept their word to Ned then Joffery would have been deposed, Ned would have taken the throne for Stannis and kept his head. Slynt's desire for a lordship effectively cost Ned his head. Afaik Jon Snow doesn't know this. In the book Tyrion sends Slynt to the wall, I'm not entirely sure why but he's definitely loyal to Cersei.

Daith

Liam O wrote: »

That doesn't explain shìt, the only way she could have put the strangler in is if she got up and moved 5 feet. People seem to have convinced themselves that the cup was placed in front of Olenna but at the time the camera lingered on her when Marge put it down it was on the bride and grooms table. Would have been very obvious to a lot of people if not any at the high table what happened if Olenna was to put it in at that time.

They were all a bit distracted at the time. Maybe Olenna shuffled up to get a closer look at the commotion and shuffled back. Or she's an excellent thrower. Does it matter?

Liam O wrote: »

What if Margaery had then drank the wine?

Why would she drink from the Kings cup?

Liam O wrote: »

It doesn't make sense to me, probably just more bad direction though.

It's essentially what happened in the books though. It makes more sense than Aegon (if that who he really is) being alive.

GerB40

longhalloween wrote: »

Someone said in a previous thread he was going to get romantic with Dany too.

Dany and Missandei? Grey Worm you slút... He has nayra bollóx i.e he's been neutered, how could he have these feelings towards the two girls? If he had hormones an shít I'd understand, they're both rides after all.

Rosy Posy

GerB40 wrote: »

Dany and Missandei? Grey Worm you slút... He has nayra bollóx i.e he's been neutered, how could he have these feelings towards the two girls? If he had hormones an shít I'd understand, they're both rides after all.

I agree that it's a ludicrous and pointless plot line, especially when they've dropped so many legitimate threads from the books, but in the book some of the unsullied were visiting prostitutes for cuddles- just cause they've got no junk doesn't mean they don't have feelings (there's the bones of a nirvana lyric in there somewhere )

celica00

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Janos Slynt was commander of the City Watch at KL (the gold cloaks). Ned asked Littlefinger to buy their support for when he revealed that Joffery was not Roberts son and deposed him, but he was counter bribed with a Lordship (and Harrenhall in the books, not sure if it went down like that in the tv show) by the Lannisters and so ended up capturing Ned instead. If Slynt and Littlefinger had kept their word to Ned then Joffery would have been deposed, Ned would have taken the throne for Stannis and kept his head. Slynt's desire for a lordship effectively cost Ned his head. Afaik Jon Snow doesn't know this. In the book Tyrion sends Slynt to the wall, I'm not entirely sure why but he's definitely loyal to Cersei.

Alright, I simply forgot that Slynt is the commander of the City watch, the rest I remember, thanks!

Morag

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/04/29/game-of-thrones-spoilers-hbo-white-walker-nights-king/

Seems we saw the Night King.

ThunbergsAreGo

bobbyg wrote: »

Jon can't really be the one to save Bran can he? He would hardly save him then let him go north.

Also they still haven't introduced Mance's son, will that be this season.

Reckon itll be "Coldhands"

username123

Morag wrote: »

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/04/29/game-of-thrones-spoilers-hbo-white-walker-nights-king/

Seems we saw the Night King.

Yes, Ive seen this floating about the internet, Ive also seen explanations from George himself stating that the people who write the episode synopsis are not necessarily book readers and will use various wiki's to get character names etc, so it may have been a blunder, or it may not.

Noopti

naughtb4 wrote: »

Reckon itll be "Coldhands"

I think so too. I reckon Jon and his band will come across the aftermath to be honest

Mr Freeze

Noopti wrote: »

I think so too. I reckon Jon and his band will come across the aftermath to be honest

Just something I saw in the trailer, will spoiler it in case people purposely avoid trailers.

It shows Jon and co in combat with the Mutineers at Crasters, but that still doesn't rule out Cold Hands appearing

But as far as I know, Coldhands hasn't even been cast, or maybe its secret/surprise, same as Lady Stoneheart.

longhalloween

Mr Freeze wrote: »

But as far as I know, Coldhands hasn't even been cast, or maybe its secret/surprise, same as Lady Stoneheart.

Benjen Stark has been cast, so maybe he'll make an appearance, though most likely it'll be an extra in a big black cloak with no visible face.

Mr Freeze

longhalloween wrote: »

Benjen Stark has been cast, so maybe he'll make an appearance, though most likely it'll be an extra in a big black cloak with no visible face.

Ah, but Benjen isn't Coldhands!

Graham_B18C

Can someone tell me, the Night Knight or King or whoever he is, how does anyone know to call him that or know who he is? I never even noticed a crown (I assumed they were horns). From what I remember he was never mentioned in the books?

A Neurotic

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Can someone tell me, the Night Knight or King or whoever he is, how does anyone know to call him that or know who he is? I never even noticed a crown (I assumed they were horns). From what I remember he was never mentioned in the books?

The official HBO plot synopsis initially named him the Night's King but was quickly changed to "A Walker". Old Nan tells Bran the story of the Night's King in the books.

longhalloween

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ah, but Benjen isn't Coldhands!

Maybe he is on the show.

I was thinking, what if the books and the TV show came up with different answers to Jon Snow's parentage?

Mickeroo

longhalloween wrote: »

Maybe he is on the show.

I was thinking, what if the books and the TV show came up with different answers to Jon Snow's parentage?

Wont happen, they won't change something that big and possibly integral to the outcome of the entire series.

Hyzepher

I'm pretty sure we'll get to see some frequent deviations from the books from this point onwards. Although the books have a lot of content/characters, there is a lot of stuff that won't transfer well to a ratings hungry TV schedule. Some of the plots in the books take a long time to develop and there is just not enough time in the series to give them the development they need.

Graham_B18C

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ah, but Benjen isn't Coldhands!

How do you know this?

A Neurotic wrote: »

The official HBO plot synopsis initially named him the Night's King but was quickly changed to "A Walker". Old Nan tells Bran the story of the Night's King in the books.

So everyone is now calling him that after a slip up on the HBO site? And there's people in here getting their knickers in a twist about references to the trailer for next weeks episode?!

Michael D Not Higgins

Graham_B18C wrote: »

How do you know this?

"Leaf, the child of the forest Bran meets at the cave of the Last Greenseer, says of Coldhands: "They killed him long ago." Will, Waymar Royce and Benjen Stark died/went missing only two years prior, a small amount of time for someone over 200 years old."

Mickeroo

Graham_B18C wrote: »

So everyone is now calling him that after a slip up on the HBO site? And there's people in here getting their knickers in a twist about references to the trailer for next weeks episode?!

I think it was pretty obvious who it was supposed to be regardless of the slip up.

Mr Freeze

Graham_B18C wrote: »

How do you know this?

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

"Leaf, the child of the forest Bran meets at the cave of the Last Greenseer, says of Coldhands: "They killed him long ago." Will, Waymar Royce and Benjen Stark died/went missing only two years prior, a small amount of time for someone over 200 years old."

What Michael D Not Higgins said. I'm pretty sure Coldhands is not Benjen.

Most likely he is just a wight being controlled by Bloodraven.

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Can someone tell me, the Night Knight or King or whoever he is, how does anyone know to call him that or know who he is? I never even noticed a crown (I assumed they were horns). From what I remember he was never mentioned in the books?

Either Old Nan tells a tale of him to Bran, or Bran repeats a tale Old Nan told him when they were at the Nights Fort on their way north before they met Sam.

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think it was pretty obvious who it was supposed to be regardless of the slip up.

I never would have thought that was the Nights King, I would just have assumed it was a Walker with horns and a general or something.

The Nights King was human after all, no mention of him becoming something else, or was there?

Graham_B18C

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think it was pretty obvious who it was supposed to be regardless of the slip up.

Myself and my GF both read the books and that went completely over our heads, a character mentioned in a story told to Bran by his Nan is hardly memorable or obvious. How and ever my questions have been answered so thanks!

Daith

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Myself and my GF both read the books and that went completely over our heads, a character mentioned in a story told to Bran by his Nan is hardly memorable or obvious. How and ever my questions have been answered so thanks!

It's a thing with the books that because there's such a long delay in them being released and that GRRM drops hints all over the place that huge amounts of theories have been created.

Most people or creatures that Old Nan mention are fairly popular and sure wasn't Nan just there to watch over Bran as a servant of the Others anyway! :P

Mickeroo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I never would have thought that was the Nights King, I would just have assumed it was a Walker with horns and a general or something.

The Nights King was human after all, no mention of him becoming something else, or was there?

Well to be honest, I had forgotten all about the Night's King myself too but from the way the horns very deliberately look like a crown I think they obviously wanted to convey hi mas a king and he looks a fair bit different from the ageing hippy walkers we've seen.

He was human yeah but if he sill lives then he's hundreds/thousands of years old so must have been altered quite a bit. Another possibility is it's one of the original night's king descendants or children.

I'd never really read up on him before but the wiki entry is interesting:

According to legend, the Night's King lived during the Age of Heroes, not long after the Wall was complete. He was a fearless warrior, who was named the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Later he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars", he chased her and loved her though "her skin was cold as ice", and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.[1] (Her description matches that of the Others.)
He brought her back to the Nightfort and after the unholy union, he declared himself king and her his queen, and ruled the Nightfort as his own castle for thirteen years. During the dark years of his reign, horrific atrocities were committed, of which tales are still told in the North. It was not until his own brother, the King in the North, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, joined forces that the Night's King was brought down and the Night's Watch freed. After his fall, when it was discovered that he had been sacrificing to the Others (possibly in similar way to Craster), all records of him were destroyed and his very name was forbidden.[1] It is likely this led the lords of the North to forbid the Night's Watch to construct walls at their keeps, ensuring the keeps would always be accessible from the south.

PopePalpatine

Was there ever a scene in Game of Thrones where Nan tells Bran about the Night's King? If not, that was a wasted opportunity.

Having read about the Night's King on A Wiki of Ice and Fire, I want to see his Queen soon.

FunLover18

Re Greyworm and Missandei; isn't it revealed that they are siblings in the books?

Re Night's King; is it possible that it is now a title and that we could be seeing a descendent of the original? Or it could be the original seeing as he turned the baby into an Other with a touch the same could have happened to him. Do we have any indication to what the Others' lifespan is?

The timeline is now definitely all over the place. Tyrion is still in the dungeon with a week left till the trial but yet Locke is already at the Wall after two weeks? It used to be there'd be weeks between episodes but I'm now getting really confused.

PopePalpatine

I had no idea Grey Worm and Missandei were siblings. I would have thought that their masters would have tried their damnednest to keep them apart.

Sleepy

FunLover18 wrote: »

Re Greyworm and Missandei; isn't it revealed that they are siblings in the books?

Nope but I can see them going that way in the show...

Missandei has three brothers, all of whom are/were unsullied. One of them died during his training, Marselen is part of Dany's army and Mossador was killed in Meereen.

StaticAge11

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Was there ever a scene in Game of Thrones where Nan tells Bran about the Night's King? If not, that was a wasted opportunity.

Having read about the Night's King on A Wiki of Ice and Fire, I want to see his Queen soon.

There was a scene last season in the Nightfort where Bran told the Reeds the story about the Nights King, just before Sam showed up. Foreshadowing perhaps?

Mr Freeze

StaticAge11 wrote: »

There was a scene last season in the Nightfort where Bran told the Reeds the story about the Nights King, just before Sam showed up. Foreshadowing perhaps?

That was the Rat Cook no?

StaticAge11

Mr Freeze wrote: »

That was the Rat Cook no?

My bad, you are right!

Kunkka

Pretty cool (sorry for the pun....)

http://www.glacialart.com/game-of-thrones-call-on-glacial-art/

GerB40

Daith wrote: »

No he doesn't.


You make it seem like writing a book is easy.

Writing a book is easy. Writing a good book however, isn't. Writing an epic masterpiece like George Martin has is nigh on impossible so people should really cut the lad some slack and be grateful for the books/characters/storylines we love so much.

Even those who are angry with him are only angry because of the passion they have for his creation (impatience I understand, not anger).

As the great man said himself "Art isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship". We mightn't always like it but that's the way it is..

Michael D Not Higgins

GerB40 wrote: »

Writing a book is easy. Writing a good book however, isn't. Writing an epic masterpiece like George Martin has is nigh on impossible so people should really cut the lad some slack and be grateful for the books/characters/storylines we love so much.

Even those who are angry with him are only angry because of the passion they have for his creation (impatience I understand, not anger).

As the great man said himself "Art isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship". We mightn't always like it but that's the way it is..

Sometimes you'd think they're the only books in the world, the way some people carry on. Read something else in the meantime!

GerB40

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Sometimes you'd think they're the only books in the world, the way some people carry on. Read something else in the meantime!

Exactly. I've found biographies to be very good books to read to get out of that whole fantasy mind set for a while. Che Guevara & Muhammad Ali did it for me while I got too bored to finish A feast for crows. After those I started back on AFFC again with a new type of appreciation and patience for it..

Daith

GerB40 wrote: »

Writing a book is easy. Writing a good book however, isn't. Writing an epic masterpiece like George Martin has is nigh on impossible so people should really cut the lad some slack and be grateful for the books/characters/storylines we love so much.

Even those who are angry with him are only angry because of the passion they have for his creation (impatience I understand, not anger).

As the great man said himself "Art isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship". We mightn't always like it but that's the way it is..

To be honest what I find more annoying is the mindset of "What do you mean he's going to a convention, shouldn't he you know be writing".

Mr Freeze

Daith wrote: »

To be honest what I find more annoying is the mindset of "What do you mean he's going to a convention, shouldn't he you know be writing".

Conventions are fine, meeting the fans and all, its probably a nice break for him from writing, but I do think HBO is taking up loads of his time that could be better spent writing the books.

Still some of the best episodes of the show so far have been the episodes he wrote, so we can't win! :pac:

Mr.Prodston

I wonder will we see Rickon and Osha this season considering all the deviations in this episode and Theon last year?

Kunkka

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I wonder will we see Rickon and Osha this season considering all the deviations in this episode and Theon last year?

Possibly

She's been doing a load of interviews regarding reactions to season 4 so far. However she isn't noted to be cast on the HBO site but either is Cat's actress... so you don't know.

Son0vagun

Kunkka wrote: »

Possibly

She's been doing a load of interviews regarding reactions to season 4 so far. However she isn't noted to be cast on the HBO site but either is Cat's actress... so you don't know.

I recall the young actor who plays Rickon, tweeted that it was good to be back in Belfast filming. He however didn't say it was anything to do with GoT, but it could have been.

Kunkka

I can't remember did we know that there would be scenes with Theon in Season 3 prior to seeing it?

Savage Tyrant

Kunkka wrote: »

I can't remember did we know that there would be scenes with Theon in Season 3 prior to seeing it?

I dont think it was 100% known. But it was kind of unlikely they'd have put the actor on a 2/3 year hiatus waiting for the story to catch up. So it stood to reason they'd have to either fill his storyline with something or bring it forward.

Liam O

I'm still annoyed they left out the Reek storyline from Clash of Kings. Reading it again now and it's one of the more clever turns in the book.

Barna77

Same as Rickon, are we seeing any of Myrcella in Dorne this season?