UK uses ugly stick on long term unemployed

woodoo

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes because no one lost their jobs at the end of the boom did they

People did lose their jobs. But surely 7 years later they should be getting back on their feet. At some stage they have to take responsibility and do something productive.

Obliq

artful_codger wrote: »

I'm an Anglophile, but we don't need their unemployed and pensioners moving here, we need their skilled workers.

Ah for feck'sake. Even their skilled workers get old y'kno. My fella 52 already - worked here 20 years. Are you saying throw him out?

And do you realise you sound just like the "no dogs, no blacks, no irish" reasoning that the English had for us (pick anytime over the last 100 years over there for an example, not least the last 10 years...)

Edit: sorry, touchy subject really. Not pointing fingers at you in particular, just the whole "we only want the good ones" business. Of course we do, but the English never had that luxury with us coming over, did they?!

darkpagandeath

woodoo wrote: »

People did lose their jobs. But surely 7 years later they should be getting back on their feet. At some stage they have to take responsibility and do something productive.

As i have said 70,000 jobs created since then... were do the other 380k get a job from ?

Vincent Vega

NipNip wrote: »

It's a terrible policy and assumes long term unemployed are there for a reason (the suggested reason being laziness). I don't actually know of anyone who is mentally well, who would not like to work. If they want to approach it from a mental health perspective, then don't humiliate or traumatise people. There are some people who fall between nets. They're not considered unwell enough to be on a payment which would sustain them, but they're also not well enough to be seeking employment. If they will offer support to such people, fair enough. Otherwise, it's like having to sign on when you're on bail or parole and it diminishes your rights to privacy.

I think this is something that people all too often overlook.

It's always the same with these threads. the 'wasters on the dole' crowd.

I think after some time on the dole, and a number of unsuccessful attempts to find employment it is quite normal for a person to lose hope in ever finding something and to fall into a debilitating depression.
Your motivation and self confidence can take a real beating.

It can get to the point where your previous work experience & references become redundant, and at that stage many places won't even entertain the idea of offering you an interview.

Sure, there are some who don't see the point in working at all and boast about getting a lie in every morning.
I'd reckon there are just as many who have fallen into the dole rut and are struggling to see a way back into employment.

woodoo

darkpagandeath wrote: »

As i have said 70,000 jobs created since then... were do the other 380k get a job from ?

250,000 lost jobs since 2007 and there was about 150,000 on the dole in 2007. So the figure is a lot less that 380,000. Many should be in further education and if there is no work move to another country for a while.

Smithwicks Man

woodoo wrote: »

250,000 lost jobs since 2007 and there was about 150,000 on the dole in 2007. So the figure is a lot less that 380,000. Many should be in further education and if there is no work move to another country for a while.

What about the countless students who came out of college with no work available?

You can't trust statistics these days. Every argument can use stats to back up the point but those stats very rarely tell the whole story.

tomwaterford

woodoo wrote: »

250,000 lost jobs since 2007 and there was about 150,000 on the dole in 2007. So the figure is a lot less that 380,000. Many should be in further education and if there is no work move to another country for a while.

and where do you propose the long term unemployed would get the money to do this:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:...

when I was signing I was lucky to have e8-10 after 3 days with bills etc....try living on e10 for 4 days a week long term and come back to me when you figure out how to save enough to move abroad/or even better manage to enjoy it!!!

orangesoda

ryan101 wrote: »

Why would getting a job be annoying ? Hmmmm

selling the car i'm taking about, because you would need the car to get to work, public transport is terrible around here and everyone uses cars

wes

Barely There wrote: »

Either point me in the direction of these posts or admit you're talking ****e.

Good lad.

Now, now, just calling a spade a spade. You clearly support this kind of thing, then its pretty clear how you feel about the people affected. See no reason to pretend otherwise. Now, if you want to change your position on this, then that a different story, but as long as you support heaping more crap on people who are down on there luck, I see no reason to not call a spade a spade.

Smithwicks Man

wes wrote: »

Now, now, just calling a spade a spade. You clearly support this kind of thing, then its pretty clear how you feel about the people affected. See no reason to pretend otherwise. Now, if you want to change your position on this, then that a different story, but as long as you support heaping more crap on people who are down on there luck, I see no reason to not call a spade a space.

:pac:

corner of hells

bumper234 wrote: »

Brilliant idea that should be bought in here too.

Brilliant ? What like sign in the UK and then head here and sign on the same day , posh welfare tourism ?

Idbatterim

maybe when posting here we should all identify what we contribute to the exchequer. Its easy not to give a **** when your not contributing! Paying scandalous rates of marginal tax from E32,800, 52% to fund this s**t! The thing is, the scroungers (Losers) are also victims, they just cant see it. Our government fail them, they actually give them the option to opt out of society and spawn another generation to do the same ad nauseam. Living from the state from cradle to grave, the figures must be eye watering.

Some here obviously believe it is acceptable to simply opt out and keep your hand out! This is more acceptable here than anywhere else from my experience!

Give people a heads up and then introduce a welfare cap. dads name has to be on birth cert and a certain % of welfare to support the child. Watch out how they keep it in their pants or wrap it up when they think they rather than the state will be at the end of a large financial loss! Welfare reduced to minuscule levels after a certain period. the money saved can be used for income tax cuts and free childcare for working parents. A carrot and stick is needed. Its a win win for everyone involved, even the current wasters, the just dont know it!

steddyeddy

Guys would some of you ever stop drinking/smoking and cop onto yourselves about the job situation. There's science graduates coming out of college and not getting jobs so stop dreaming up reasons to hate people.

darkpagandeath

steddyeddy wrote: »

Guys would some of you ever stop drinking/smoking and cop onto yourselves about the job situation. There's science graduates coming out of college and not getting jobs so stop dreaming up reasons to hate people.

The same people will tell you that they should go work in a hotel for €5.50 an hour.

kingchess

so why dont we double or triple the dole??wait-that means people who are working will have to pay more tax and take home less,they might as well go on the dole too,and then where will the country get money to pay the dole??the dole should give people a helping hand and it should not be for life,

Freddie Dodge

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The same people will tell you that they should go work in a hotel for €5.50 an hour.

Why would they do that when we have a generous welfare system and they can lie in bed dreaming of that 50k job which is just around the corner.

In 2011 I closed my company which I'd had for 20 years almost. It was construction based.

No dole for me. I haven't starved in that time. Ive done jobs I'd rather not do. I'm now doing better, earning more in a job I enjoy.

Difference is I was/am highly motivated by the fact that there was/is no dole for me.

I put the question to you "But there are no jobs"/ "There are 28 people per job" /bullsh1t statistic merchants.

How did I find several? with the sum total of my non working time being one week in the last three years?

My answer: because I am motivated by not having the safety net.

We need more motivation.

Turtwig

kingchess wrote: »

so why dont we double or triple the dole??wait-that means people who are working will have to pay more tax and take home less,they might as well go on the dole too,and then where will the country get money to pay the dole??the dole should give people a helping hand and it should not be life,

Why don't we treble the minimum wage? Why don't we abolish the minimum wage?
Because everything is about balance. Having a dole exceeding the salary of a CEO is clearly stupid. Having a dole of €1 per week is also stupid.

Can people not understand that in society you will always have unemployed people. You will always long term unemployed with unattractive skill sets and little motivation. The solution of course is to piss on these more because they're fraudsters in the systems.

They're also fraudsters employed and avoiding tax. Why don't we raise taxes to accommodate this? :rolleyes:

Because that would be examining the complexity of the system with blinkered eyes.

Turtwig

Freddie Dodge wrote: »

Why would they do that when we have a generous welfare system and they can lie in bed dreaming of that 50k job which is just around the corner.

In 2011 I closed my company which I'd had for 20 years almost. It was construction based.

No dole for me. I haven't starved in that time. Ive done jobs I'd rather not do. I'm now doing better, earning more in a job I enjoy.

Difference is I was/am highly motivated by the fact that there was/is no dole for me.

I put the question to you "But there are no jobs"/ "There are 28 people per job" /bullsh1t statistic merchants.

How did I find several? with the sum total of my non working time being one week in the last three years?

My answer: because I am motivated by not having the safety net.

We need more motivation.

Blank the slate. Take away all your skills, possible savings and experience. See where your lack of safety net leads you then.

People who lost their business and jobs never seem to grasp how huge an advantage they still have over various demographics of society

kingchess

so people who are working should keep working-they are supporting a lot of people who cant be bothered signing on more than one day a week.

mikom

Freddie Dodge wrote: »

Why would they do that when we have a generous welfare system and they can lie in bed dreaming of that 50k job which is just around the corner.

In 2011 I closed my company which I'd had for 20 years almost. It was construction based.

No dole for me. I haven't starved in that time. Ive done jobs I'd rather not do. I'm now doing better, earning more in a job I enjoy.

Difference is I was/am highly motivated by the fact that there was/is no dole for me.

I put the question to you "But there are no jobs"/ "There are 28 people per job" /bullsh1t statistic merchants.

How did I find several? with the sum total of my non working time being one week in the last three years?

My answer: because I am motivated by not having the safety net.

We need more motivation.

Turtwig wrote: »

Blank the slate. Take away all your skills, possible savings and experience. See where your lack of safety net leads you then.

People who lost their business and jobs never seem to grasp how huge an advantage they still have over various demographics of society

If you blank the slate then you must explain what he was doing for the 20 years after his schooling not to have attained skills, possible savings and experience. This is older person we are taking about here.

darkpagandeath

kingchess wrote: »

so people who are working should keep working-they are supporting a lot of people who cant be bothered signing on more than one day a week.

You are not working to support anyone's lifestyle, You work you are obliged to pay taxes. The government then decide were to spend this money. A responsible progressive society looks after the people who are unable to look after themselves. Yes there are a minority that will never work for what ever reason. But this is no reason to tar everyone with the same brush.

steddyeddy

kingchess wrote: »

so people who are working should keep working-they are supporting a lot of people who cant be bothered signing on more than one day a week.

Nah stop working if you want. I won't stop working just because some people hate unemployed people or whoever.

Tigger

NipNip wrote: »

That would be an awful pain in the rear end. What happens if you've to go somewhere and can't sign?

I feel the same about work
What if I have stuff to do?

Smithwicks Man

Tigger wrote: »

I feel the same about work
What if I have stuff to do?

Hardly an identical situation seeing as there is no reason to make people sign on everyday other than to discourage them from doing so. It's nonsense.

darkpagandeath

Tigger wrote: »

I feel the same about work
What if I have stuff to do?

You arrange your life around work. You do not arrange your job searching activities around how long you have to stand in a line stopping you from looking for said work. If you want people to sign on every day then expect when the question of what have you done to look for work comes up. Answer of “Not alot I have been traveling on the bus to and from the dole office and waiting in line for most of the week”.

Turtwig

kingchess wrote: »

so people who are working should keep working-they are supporting a lot of people who cant be bothered signing on more than one day a week.

No people in society with the ability to pay and help others should. The goal is to have society with the highest standard of living that is equally distributed. That a person born into a family with no income has the same potential in life as a person born into a family of billionaires. Now, that's not feasible, but we should move towards that spectrum rather than opposite whereby income and circumstances determine your potential. Ireland is a very lucky place to be if the sh*t ever hits the fan there's a safety net there to catch you!

Signing on daily, making 'examples' out of people in such a way can dent a person's sent of dignity. Which isn't really going to motivate them into conforming to the societal way you expect them to behave.

mikom wrote: »

If you blank the slate then you must explain what he was doing for the 20 years after his schooling not to have attained skills, possible savings and experience. This is older person we are taking about here.

You miss the point.

Take him/her 20 years ago, put them in a time capsule and transport them into today's society. See how they fare without the safety net they wish to remove. Part of the battle with getting a job - getting anywhere in society- is having the required skillsets and experience. Some people never get to attain either.

mikom

Turtwig wrote: »

You miss the point.

Take him/her 20 years ago, put them in a time capsule and transport them into today's society. See how they fare without the safety net they wish to remove. Part of the battle with getting a job - getting anywhere in society- is having the required skillsets and experience. Some people never get to attain either.

And older people may be overlooked for positions............ but the poster we are referring to has found employment.

Smithwicks Man

mikom wrote: »

And older people may be overlooked for positions............ but the poster we are referring to has found employment.

Yes but he's saying the difference between him finding employment and others not finding it is because he was so motivated, partly due to the fact that he's a motivated person and also due to the fact that he could not sign on to the dole.

In reality however, he most likely found employment so easily because he also had 20+ years of experience - a luxury that most do not have when heading into a job interview.



For many young people it's a Catch 22 - You need experience to get the job but you need the job to get experience. Disaster.

Turtwig

mikom wrote: »

And older people may be overlooked for positions............ but the poster we are referring to has found employment.

How likely is it that this person have found employment if they had:
-) No prior work experience.
-) No training or required skillset.
-) Not Prospered enough to be a position to actually apply for the job in the first place.
-) No motivation and not bothered.

Motivation isn't the only factor, that's the point.

Freddie Dodge

Turtwig wrote: »

Blank the slate. Take away all your skills, possible savings and experience. See where your lack of safety net leads you then.

People who lost their business and jobs never seem to grasp how huge an advantage they still have over various demographics of society

Skills? The fact that I can get up in time to show up to a job without being drunk/hungover/drugged is a massive advantage ??? Over who? Oh, those poor people this thread is "bashing" -The "most vulnerable" I forgot.

Savings? You really know fcuk all about the world.

Experience? Well, yeah, ive had the "experience" of having no money for food for next week never mind the mortgage or bills, so yeah, you got me there, - I have that.

Turtwig wrote: »

You miss the point.

Take him/her 20 years ago, put them in a time capsule and transport them into today's society. See how they fare without the safety net they wish to remove. Part of the battle with getting a job - getting anywhere in society- is having the required skillsets and experience. Some people never get to attain either.

And you just shot your own point dead here, cos im now doing what I did as a summer job 20 years ago.

So could you. Or the rest of them.

Please re-read your post when you learn something about life my young friend. You'll cringe at yourself.

mikom

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

For many young people it's a Catch 22 - You need experience to get the job but you need the job to get experience. Disaster.

Always was the case......... apart from when we were all selling houses to one another.
Start at the bottom.
I'd hate to tell you what my first paid job during school was.

Turtwig

Freddie Dodge wrote: »

Skills? The fact that I can get up in time to show up to a job without being drunk/hungover/drugged is a massive advantage ??? Over who? Oh, those poor people this thread is "bashing" -The "most vulnerable" I forgot.

Savings? You really know fcuk all about the world.

Experience? Well, yeah, ive had the "experience" of having no money for food for next week never mind the mortgage or bills, so yeah, you got me there, - I have that.




And you just shot your own point dead here, cos im now doing what I did as a summer job 20 years ago.

So could you. Or the rest of them.

Please re-read your post when you learn something about life my young friend. You'll cringe at yourself.

No need to be condescending.

I was using experience in the career vernacular the type you put on a CV not the everyday personal experience. Sorry to read you'd to struggle with the bills and food.

I have no idea why you brought drink or drugs into this.

Savings was mentioned because re-skilled takes investment. Having none or having other burdens makes finding employment all the more difficult.

I leave personal experiences out for a reason. If one person had a pleasant experience of a drug would you use that person's testimony to say the drug is completely safe? Likewise, if one person had a negative experience of the same drug would you use that testimony to say it's unsafe? No you can't aggregate things that way. Same goes for society. We can all find that person born in the slums of poverty that prospered in society. That doesn't suddenly mean poverty isn't an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Edit: Forgot to add, the fact you did the summer job before likely makes you the more attractive option over someone who never did it.

Freddie Dodge

Turtwig wrote: »

No need to be condescending.

I was using experience in the career vernacular the type you put on a CV not the everyday personal experience. Sorry to read you'd to struggle with the bills and food.

I have no idea why you brought drink or drugs into this.

Savings was mentioned because re-skilled takes investment. Having none or having other burdens makes finding employment all the more difficult.

I leave personal experiences out for a reason. If one person had a pleasant experience of a drug would you use that person's testimony to say the drug is completely safe? Likewise, if one person had a negative experience of the same drug would you use that testimony to say it's unsafe? No you can't aggregate things that way. Same goes for society. We can all find that person born in the slums of poverty that prospered in society. That doesn't suddenly mean poverty isn't an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Sorry for the condescension, but I get annoyed by excuses for not doing anything.

This post of yours is full of more of them and ignores the fact that as I posted above, in the job I do now, my previous experience, education, and qualifications are redundant. I did this job as a summer job 20 years ago. All these are not on my cv, because I dont have one currently.

Motivation, not excuses is the answer.

Turtwig

Apology accepted.

I still think we're on a different wavelength here.
We've been there before, on the employment ladder so to speak. Imagine you were never there. Imagine you never got a chance to attain the skills to be there and circumstances are wholly different. Imagine also the appetite to relish and face challenges was never instilled into you by either your parents, or society or for whatever reason you never got it. There's more inequality now than there every was. More disconnect. My point is that motivation is great and if you're not motivated you're not going to get anywhere but for people with prior careers, experience and aptitude it is far far easier to get back on the ladder than it is for first timers to get on it. Kind of like riding a bicycle for the first time as opposed to falling off it and getting injured and hopping back on it?
Society needs to encourage people to take the bike lessons, not piss on them because they're not taking it, or expect them to learn to cycle without training wheels.
Hopefully this convey the spirit of the point I'm trying to make.

Edit: Also, I see that I also generalised my assumptions too much about you using prior experience to get a job. I think it was probably still a factor but not probably not as significant as my initial post may have implied. Apologies.

Tippex

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Install this in every dole office in ireland? maybe in 2050!

Then they will realise that eh they don;t actually work the way we thought they would so we will go back to the trusty pen and paper and put all these new fangled machines in a warehouse for years and pay for security.

God no we would never do something like that oh wait........

mikom

Turtwig wrote: »

Kind of like riding a bicycle for the first time as opposed to falling off it and getting injured and hopping back on it?
Society needs to encourage people to take the bike lessons, not piss on them because they're not taking it, or expect them to learn to cycle without training wheels.

If it ain't got an engine and an Apple logo, many would not even look twice at it.

jank

Turtwig wrote: »

How likely is it that this person have found employment if they had:
-) No prior work experience.
-) No training or required skillset.
-) Not Prospered enough to be a position to actually apply for the job in the first place.
-) No motivation and not bothered.

Motivation isn't the only factor, that's the point.

Some points.

1)Isnt there jobbridge or more commonly named on boards slavebridge? This is an opportunity for people to get work experience but people have criticised it endlessly about it just exploiting people for free.
2) Everyone in the state has free education up to 2 second level and arguably to 3rd level. There are tons to back to eduacation allowences and FAS schemes available yet again people moan about these and expect eduaction to fall on their lap with no actual effort on their own part.
3) I dont know what you mean by this. Do you mean that they can't afford to apply for a job, as in go to the local library and use their free internet to send off a CV?
4) Not bothered or motivated because the state will give them their free money with no effort in return. So you are right, why bother?

Motivation is the overall primary factor to human endevour and progress. The state has to make people motivated to look for work and better themselves in the first place. I dont blame people that refuse to take a job as they might be worse off by losing their benefits, I blame the state and the system for that.

So even if you give people work experience, education and a framework to go into employment at the end of the day the person themselves have to be motivated to take it up in the first place. People with neither of those but are motivated will end up at somestage with something.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Turtwig

jank wrote: »

Some points.

1)Isnt there jobbridge or more commonly named on boards slavebridge? This is an opportunity for people to get work experience but people have criticised it endlessly about it just exploiting people for free.
2) Everyone in the state has free education up to 2 second level and arguably to 3rd level. There are tons to back to eduacation allowences and FAS schemes available yet again people moan about these and expect eduaction to fall on their lap with no actual effort on their own part.
3) I dont know what you mean by this. Do you mean that they can't afford to apply for a job, as in go to the local libarary and use their free internet to send off a CV?
4) Not bothered or motivated because the state will give them their free money with no effort in return. So you are right, why bother?

Motivation is the overall primary factor to human endevour and progress. The state has to make people motivated to look for work and better themselves in the first place. I dont blame people that refuse to take a job as they might be worse off by losing their benefits, I blame the state and the system for that.

So even if you give people work experience, education and a framework to go into employment at the end of the day the person themselves have to be motivated to take it up in the first place.

1)
Jobridge is a decent idea but it's also got problems. Chief among them is many companies are using to get the state pay for employment when they're offering little training or personal development in return.
2) That's why I noted that Ireland is lucky place to be.
3) I mean, that society has different cultures and circumstances. Some people won't engage with a system that she has been authoritarian or dictating. Others won't engage if they see crime or the black market, or as you pointed out state benefits, as being more lucrative.
4) Well, I had other reasons for no motivation in line. Learned helpnesses been chief among those. Generally speaking if a person is out of work for a few years their sense of self worth drops and they generally accept their fate. Kind of like how if you torture a dog in a cage eventually it just takes the beatings. Even if you make is simple to escape from the cage. A new dog would just hop out but the old dog having experience it for so will simply sit there and take it. That's one of the reasons why punitive efforts to motivate often back fire. There needs to be a targeted and balanced approach.
There are other reasons for lack of motivation but I think that's enough for now.

Motivation and persistence is a HUGE factor. I'm not disputing that. This is one of my favourite quotes of all time:

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

But we cannot assume it is as simply black and white as just press on. There are other factors that determine the chances of person getting employed. Any society ignores these at it own peril.

Ray Palmer

jacksie66 wrote: »

Some people on boards need to get off their high horses and realise everyone can't get a job so here's no need to look down on them. All these dole threads just turn into a snobbery match and a finger pointing exercise for the people fortunate enough to have work...

Equally people should stop defending people in a blanket way without looking at the context. This is really about long term unemployed.

Having a job is not a fortunate thing it is a hard thing. People have to swallow their pride and put up with all manner of unpleasant things for their jobs.

The reason I have a job is because I worked at it. If somebody has been out of work 3 years and not availed of any of the training or schemes. That is a reality and not a small number of people.

I actually think they realistically need to start classing people as unemployable in the private sector. They then should have to go to specialist services with physiological assistance. They do it to a small extent but they need to ramp it up.

I don't particularly blame some people for their outlook on life but they won't change on their own. Some are simply beyond help. Hopefully some want better for their children.

Don't ever forget their is reverse snobbery who try to better them selves. Some people genuinely don't want their children to do better than themselves.

Smithwicks Man

jank wrote: »

Some points.

1)Isnt there jobbridge or more commonly named on boards slavebridge? This is an opportunity for people to get work experience but people have criticised it endlessly about it just exploiting people for free.
2) Everyone in the state has free education up to 2 second level and arguably to 3rd level. There are tons to back to eduacation allowences and FAS schemes available yet again people moan about these and expect eduaction to fall on their lap with no actual effort on their own part.

I can see where you're coming from and I do agree with the rest of your post but Jobbridge is a laughing stock. Expecting people to work full 40 hour weeks for €50 is a joke - and it is being exploited by business and is actually costing the state serious money because of business chooses to hire folks on Jobbridge rather than hire actual employees on a full wage.

And in what world is 3rd level education free here? It may be cheaper than other countries but it is most certainly not free.

Ray Palmer

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from and I do agree with the rest of your post but Jobbridge is a laughing stock. Expecting people to work full 40 hour weeks for €50 is a joke - and it is being exploited by business and is actually costing the state serious money because of business chooses to hire folks on Jobbridge rather than hire actual employees on a full wage.

And in what world is 3rd level education free here? It may be cheaper than other countries but it is most certainly not free.

Jobsbridge is extremely successful. I get people dislike it but it works. It is not costing the state money as it gets people jobs. You don't get €50 to work 40 hours you get nothing and an extra allowance for expenses. They don't pay you to go to school either

They do put people in college here for free by paying the registration fee. It certainly doesn't put people into debt like in other countries. The whole registration fees aspect is a seriously messed up but college is technically free here.

osarusan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Jobsbridge is extremely successful. I get people dislike it but it works. It is not costing the state money as it gets people jobs.

It would have to create jobs to save the state money.

In the vast majority of cases, any job would still have been available whether jobbridge was around or not. Jobbridge might make one unemployed person more likely to get the job than another, but that position would have been filled without jobbridge.

Ray Palmer

osarusan wrote: »

It would have to create jobs to save the state money.

In the vast majority of cases, any job would still have been available whether jobbridge was around or not. Jobbridge might make one unemployed person more likely to get the job than another, but that position would have been filled without jobbridge.

Wrong. The country currently brings in many foreign workers to fill positions our own population can't fill. By getting people into these jobs and getting experience they get people off the dole who otherwise may stay on it. Companies also create jobs for people because they find the people useful.

You just don't like jobsbridge which is fine but you haven't got your facts straight.

jank

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from and I do agree with the rest of your post but Jobbridge is a laughing stock. Expecting people to work full 40 hour weeks for €50 is a joke - and it is being exploited by business and is actually costing the state serious money because of business chooses to hire folks on Jobbridge rather than hire actual employees on a full wage.

And in what world is 3rd level education free here? It may be cheaper than other countries but it is most certainly not free.

They don't get 50 euro for 40 hours work. They get Job seekers allowance + 50 euro, quite a difference. For someone with zero work experience it is an option. Now one can moan about it, complain that it is not perfect and so on but the stats are clear that it is a good gateway to employment. Could it be improved, possibly but the thing is if it didn't exist people would be complaining about that too. Of course the reason why people find it hard to get that first job is the minimum wage but it seems that is a sacred cow.

On 3rd level I did say 'arguably' but after one pays a registration fee (sometimes the local council pays that depending on your circumstances and there are scholarships too) they get their lectures, labs and tutorials etc. for free. Certainly cheaper than most other OECD countries where one could be in debt years. This being Ireland, we want the best of everything but when asked to pay for it, blue murder! By the way I disagree with free 3rd level as it's vote getter for the middle classes (labours bread and butter). Money should be going to pre-school and primary education first and foremost

osarusan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Companies also create jobs for people because they find the people useful.

And companies also use free interns when, in the absence of the scheme, they were 'highly likely' or 'fairly likely' have offered a paid position. This was admitted by 29% of companies in a survey carried out by Indecon.

jank

osarusan wrote: »

And companies also use free interns when, in the absence of the scheme, they were 'highly likely' or 'fairly likely' have offered a paid position. This was admitted by 29% of companies in a survey carried out by Indecon.

So 71% of positions are new positions created by jobbridge. That is not too bad to be honest.

osarusan

jank wrote: »

So 71% of positions are new positions created by jobbridge. That is not too bad to be honest.

You have to be kidding me? Is that seriously what you take from that statistic?

Ray Palmer

jank wrote: »

So 71% of positions are new positions created by jobbridge. That is not too bad to be honest.

Making it a highly effective scheme. The country will be reaping the rewards of this scheme for years to come. Less reliance on hiring experienced people from outside of the EU and giving the visas.

osarusan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Making it a highly effective scheme. The country will be reaping the rewards of this scheme for years to come. Less reliance on hiring experienced people from outside of the EU and giving the visas.

If you also think that the statistics I postd can be interpreted in that way, you haven't the slightest notion what you are saying.