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Setanta Insurance

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  • 28-04-2014 2:40pm
    #1
    bugs_bus
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭


    I renewed my van insurance through a broker with Setanta. I paid the €500 premium on the 15th of January this year for the policy start date of the 6th of February.
    Last week I received a letter from the broker telling me Setanta was out of business, however in the first line of the letter they say that they sent a letter in early February informing me that Setanta were no longer issuing insurance and renewals etc. The thing is I didn't receive this letter and I suspect that they never sent me this letter to inform me. If they had I could have cancelled my policy and gone elsewhere. Have I any legal recourse in this instance?


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Comments

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    #2
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Broker arent running around trying to cover their asses at the moment. They are running around trying to cover their clients vehicles!

    No. You have no legal recourse. There was no legal requirement to issue a letter.


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    #4
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #5
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Which is what Fred?


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    #6
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    Hi Bugs Bus, you should demand a refund from your broker, as Setanta issued a statement on 24th of January saying from that date they were not doing any renewals or taking any new customers, this was reported in the media ....check Irish Times 27th January, article by Fiona Reddan headline was" Setanta Insurance closes to new business", if this was in the newspaper its indefensible to take money from you after this date.


    Also if you look at Setanta's web site it says that they are regulated by the Central Bank Of Ireland, they were not !
    So why was a professional body such as Insurance broker dealing with a company which is misleading its customers ?

    Contact the Consumer Association in the first instance , write a letter to your broker asking for a refund on the basis that it was in the public domain that Setanta was closing from the 24th January and then if you do not get a refund you should report this to the Financial Services Ombudsman.
    Good Luck


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    #7
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    Yeah Fred, I'm going to report this to my local Garda station as well as I do believe that this should be looked into, there is an EU commission set up to investigate the operation and closure of Setanta, the EU commissioner that has landed the job is Michel Barnier (French obviously) so he will be able to tell us who was noble and who is not .... in relation to this..so we will eventually know why Irish brokers were taking money for a company that was going doing the plug hole.


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    #9
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Why would they? As has been stated over and over again, brokers were aware of Setanta planning an exit of the market. That doesn't stop them from being a position of running their book off effectively at the time of renewal.


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    #10
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #11
    bugs_bus
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭bugs_bus


    Thanks for replies and suggestions. I was also told by another guy in insurance that the broker would normally hold onto the clients money for 6-8 weeks before paying the insurance company. So even though I paid on the 15th January, they would have had my money in their account when they learnt of the winding down. Whether they didn't have a legal obligation to inform their customers I think they would have a moral obligation - and so I think I do have a case against them.


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    #12
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    Bugs bus you definitely have a case, just go the correct route to find a solution, ie. the cheapest for you, if you go down the solicitor route the refund may not cover the cost of the solicitor as the broker would settle before the court and therefore no award of costs, each would have to pay their own, and if your broker has the typical brass neck of a broker then he'd have deeper pockets than you and run it out so that the costs were above what its worth in the first place...as I said earlier go to the Consumer Agency and report it, then request a refund and then the Financial Services Ombudsman, there's always the small claims court !


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    #13
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Where did you get that from? They were not 'gone' by then, they announced they were exiting the market in a 12 month run off which happens ALL THE TIME in the Irish insurance market


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    #14
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #15
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    A run off, means no new business ! Setanta announced no new business on 24th January and new insurances policies were given to people in February, that's not a run off that a RIP OFF, and it does not happen all the time, when were 75000 people affected last by insurance exiting the market like Setanta ? Quinn was bailed, as was PMPA .


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    #16
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No, that's a different argument. You stated that brokers knew that Setanta was 'gone' on Feb 1 which is factually incorrect.

    This is a topic which has generated more threads than I have seen before between AH, Banking & Insurance & Motors. Those affected are correctly annoyed, as I would be, but rubbish like that has me ending my assistance to fellow posters looking for answers


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    #17
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    That is my view

    Yes, but not not it doesn't make it correct. Nor does your constant repetition.

    Insurers of various sorts have run down their business over the years. This doesn't mean that they would not be in a position to fund claims/pay outs after a point.

    So unless you have to very specific evidence that folks would have known this case was different, and are going to share it with us all, I'm going to say stop this constant implication you've smattered across every thread on this topic.


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    #18
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    If I was a broker and I knew on Feb 1 that Setanta was gone and then took money for a renewal of Feb 2 and paid that to Setanta I would be getting some legal advice from a criminal lawyer.

    The correct thing would be to have told the person I will have to find you some other cover and do that, rather than screw over the client.

    This is the reason I would never use a broker.

    Brokers seem to be completely unwilling to admit they did wrong. Instead it is double commissions for all!

    Fred you are showing your complete lack of understanding about the matter bar what you may have heard. Setanta were not gone on 2 February. They were gone from 17 April. That they indicated they were withdrawing from the market doesnt mean that one should assume they were in trouble. A lot of insurers withdraw from certain lines of business. Aviva stopped doing motor bikes years ago, doesn't mean they were going bust!


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    #19
    Nicki6000
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nicki6000


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Fred you are showing your complete lack of understanding about the matter bar what you may have heard. Setanta were not gone on 2 February. They were gone from 17 April. That they indicated they were withdrawing from the market doesnt mean that one should assume they were in trouble. A lot of insurers withdraw from certain lines of business. Aviva stopped doing motor bikes years ago, doesn't mean they were going bust!

    Exactly, Travelers Insurance withdrew from the Motor Insurance market a few years back. No broker could have foreseen this disaster and for people to come online and say the brokers are being 'exposed for what they are' is just ignorant..


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    #20
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    The time frame and facts are. On the 24th of Jan 2014 Setanta stated that they were withdrawing from writing new cover and renewals from close of business in Ireland. Setanta, although Maltese registered did not operate in any other country apart from Ireland, so if they were pulling out of Ireland they were essentially winding up the company. The only reason that they would stop trading is they were making no money or losing money... the risk now being that funds would not be available to meet existing claims or future claims, one would expect so that from the 24th Jan 2014 it would not be even possible to start a new policy or a renewal, yet there are hundreds if not thousands who have had policies renewed by brokers after the notice that the company was withdrawing, this is the reason why people are so angry, they were given incorrect or misleading advise by a professional broker who at the least should've known better. Where the company took money directly from customers on their website after 24th January would be considered wreckless trading and the liquidator would report this to the Maltese Financial Services Authority for him to act as he sees fit, oh and Setanta said on their website that they are regulated by the Central Bank Of Ireland, they are not are were never.So you can make up your own mind why brokers went ahead and gave cover and its not a case of having foresight, the info was in the public domain never mind in Insurance circles.


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    #21
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Incorrect Mercfisher. So don't say something is fact when it isn't. It was possible to renew after January as they were conducting an orderly wind down. There would have been clients from every other month prior to that that needed to be run off.

    Also their website says that they are regulated by Central Bank Ireland for business conduct rules.

    Get it right or don't bother.


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    #22
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Incorrect Mercfisher. So don't say something is fact when it isn't. It was possible to renew after January as they were conducting an orderly wind down. There would have been clients from every other month prior to that that needed to be run off.

    Also their website says that they are regulated by Central Bank Ireland for business conduct rules.

    Get it right or don't bother.

    Orderly wind down? They went bust!


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    #23
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Orderly wind down? They went bust!

    Yeah on the 17th April! Not in January as indicated above.


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    #24
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    pete2b you are not looking at this objectively, it was stated by Setanta and reported in the media (Irish Times article by Fiona Reddan that no new business or no new renewals would take place after close of business on 24th January FACT heres an extract from the article

    Setanta Insurance, a Dublin-based insurer, has ceased writing new business and issuing renewals as of last Friday, January 24th.

    The company's offices in Blanchardstown, west Dublin, will remain open to handle all existing and any future claims arising and also assist with any queries.

    Brokers some how managed to deal with a company that had a liquidity problem after Jan24th but they shouldn't have FACT.

    If you need to know anything else please ask


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    #25
    mercfisher
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭mercfisher


    They went into liquidation in April 17th yeah of course, but told the world on Jan24th that they were in trouble and not continuing with any new policies or renewals, this is very easy to understand !


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    #26
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    mercfisher wrote: »
    pete2b you are not looking at this objectively, it was stated by Setanta and reported in the media (Irish Times article by Fiona Reddan that no new business or no new renewals would take place after close of business on 24th January FACT heres an extract from the article

    Setanta Insurance, a Dublin-based insurer, has ceased writing new business and issuing renewals as of last Friday, January 24th.

    The company's offices in Blanchardstown, west Dublin, will remain open to handle all existing and any future claims arising and also assist with any queries.

    Brokers some how managed to deal with a company that had a liquidity problem after Jan24th but they shouldn't have FACT.

    If you need to know anything else please ask

    That doesn't say they weren't renewing policies. That says they weren't issuing more renewals. By that time they had issued renewals up until March. Fact.

    Just because a company announces a wind down it doesn't mean they have liquidity issues. Fact.

    So you feel free to ask anything.


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    #27
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    peteb2 wrote: »
    ....Just because a company announces a wind down it doesn't mean they have liquidity issues. Fact.

    Absolutely, but in the case of the company we're discussing it turns out that they did.

    Please try to stay on topic.


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    #28
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Absolutely, but in the case of the company we're discussing it turns out that they did.

    Please try to stay on topic.

    That wasn't what was stated. They didnt go bust in January. And if youve a problem with what ive said feel free to refer it to a moderator. Which I note you aren't.


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    #29
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Anyone any news from there special meeting today.

    I recieved a letter telling me about the meeting but don't know what has been decided.


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    #30
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    peteb2 wrote: »
    That wasn't what was stated. They didnt go bust in January. And if youve a problem with what ive said feel free to refer it to a moderator. Which I note you aren't.

    By whom? The facts are that Setanta were in trouble and subsequently went bust.

    Are you trying to dispute this?


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    #31
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    By whom? The facts are that Setanta were in trouble and subsequently went bust.

    Are you trying to dispute this?

    No. Mercfisher stated for a fact something that wasn't in January. They gave no indication of being in trouble in January. That they went bust indicates they were. But there were no abnormal outward signs in January.


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