Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid (Second Leg) (Allianz Arena) KO: 7:45PM (ITV1 + TV3)

Son Of A Vidic

A masterclass from Madrid, a joy to watch. Pace, power and lethal in attack. Casillas didn't break a sweat over the two legs. A pity about Alonso missing the final though, he's been immense all season.

WallyGUFC

WallyGUFC wrote: »

As a United fan, if both managers were available, I wouldn't have Guardiola near the club ever. Tika-taka is boring to watch. Give me the excitement of Real tonight, or United of old, over this pass pass pass repeat any day. Luckily for Guardiola, he's young and has time to adapt his style, and he will really have to. You don't win a game on the possession stats. Bayern have dominated possession tonight and are 4-0 down. Real have created all of the chances and have been truly clinical. That, to me, is exciting football.

Seen someone in the Utd thread earlier saying they wouldn't want Ancellotti near Utd. Thought it was a mad one. He's top class and has been been for a long time.

thebigredone

The lads on itv just spent the last 20 minutes talking about chelsea and mourinho going to lisbon and being reunited with former teams and former players etc., like they didn't have to play a game against the team thats top of la liga.

Too Tough To Die

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

A bitter taste of defeat before heading in to the World Cup where expectations are high for the German players.

Styles are very contrasting and the set up is very different. Dont think it will be an issue.

Kylo Ren

Andersonisgod

Fudge You wrote: »

Barca were not playing tonight. It was bayern Munich against Madrid

Really? I think some people can only see blaugrana.

From a tiki taka standpoint and as someone who firmly believes in that philosophy, Bayern over two legs (apart from a strong first 15 minutes in Madrid) did not reach anywhere near the standards of what it should be. That's harsh though because it is their first season trying to implement such a philosophy, while Pep's Barcelona had been playing that way since they were kids. Certainly I wouldn't be writing off Bayern Munich as a force, Pep will get this together, that I do believe.

thebigredone

thebigredone wrote: »

The lads on itv just spent the last 20 minutes talking about chelsea and mourinho going to lisbon and being reunited with former teams and former players etc., like they didn't have to play a game against the team thats top of la liga.

What i wouldnt give for Atletico to sneak a win while parking the bus though the thoughts of Ancelotti getting his revenge on Chelsea by Ronaldo and co going to town on them is also appealing.

Fudge You

Montroseee wrote: »

He's killing the tika taka footballing philsophy that originated at Barca and has now been wrongly thrust upon a side it shouldn't.

Well do you remember last month when Messi got a hattrick against Madrid.
I really dont know why you bring Barca into this thread. Munich knew what Pep would do...
And also its debatable, where passing football came from, dont think it was invented by pep in 2008. Sure he was brought up on it when he played for barca in the 90s.

Dozen Wicked Words

rarnes1 wrote: »

Seen someone in the Utd thread earlier saying they wouldn't want Ancellotti near Utd. Thought it was a mad one. He's top class and has been been for a long time.

Pure class, should never have been sacked by Chelsea. Utd would be very lucky to have him.

Ulysses Gaze

rarnes1 wrote: »

Seen someone in the Utd thread earlier saying they wouldn't want Ancellotti near Utd. Thought it was a mad one. He's top class and has been been for a long time.

Not sure why, but he seems underrated by a lot of people.

Won titles in every country he has managed - including a double in England in his first season.

Man Utd would be lucky to get a manager like him.

Professional Griefer

Great day for football

WallyGUFC

shamrock55 wrote: »

You would be lucky to get ian dowie never mind pep

That's quite insightful really. I'm not quite sure of Iain dowie's footballing philosophy. Can you tell me?

Guardiola has shown nothing whatsoever to suggest he will adapt his tactics. If he doesn't, he will fail repeatedly at CL level from now on because pacy teams such as Real and Dortmund know how to play him. Passing is an art which he perfected at Barca for a period. Defending is an art which Mourinho has mastered with multiple teams. Clinical counter attacking is an art which Ancelotti perfected tonight and with Real throughout the season. Ancelotti didn't always play this way, he has adapted throughout his career.

He is one of the best managers in the world but he is barely noticed because he doesn't seek attention and doesn't wax lyrical about any "philosophy." He plays what's in front of him, and that's why I think Real will win the CL.

Turtwig

Woeful defending of set plays cost Bayern the game. Still think it was wrong not to have Martinez on from the start to help snuff out Counter Attacks. Madrids defense were excellent but in many ways an impotent Bayern flattered. Have to feel for Pep. Horrendous week for him. Delighted for Ancelloti, never lost against Bayern, but more so that Madrid team he has created this season is quality.

Unfortunately the last thing the neutrals want now is Atletico Madrid to make the finals. Those derbies are ugly, very ugly. The fact it is a final will likely made things worse.

As for Pep's tika taka or whatever been made redundant. Madness, he lost one game match. In sport you're always going to lose more than you win. His model managed to produce the opposite. No point in abandoning ship now. More to the point, if any team defends like Chelsea/Madrid have done in the latter parts of the season then any opposition will struggle to break that down. What plan does someone propose? Two flat rows of fours inside the box are incredibly difficult to penetrate.

DenMan

I put my hands up! I sure got this one wrong!

Well done Real on a superb performance tonight! What a first ever win in Munich! Disappointed for Alonso! Back to the drawing board for Munich now as they were well beaten tonight and just didn't show up for the two legs!

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What they need is their manager from last season tbh.

Maybe Guardiola needs more time and the support in order to get his own type of players in. He will have to adjust a bit though and find a style that suits some of his better players.

The reason Barca were successful is because Messi is simply magic and Iniesta and Xavi could pass through the eye of a needle. You also had Busquets, Toure, Abidal, and Keita there who could protect the back four as well as launching attacks with Dani Alves very effective down the flanks

MD1990

Ronaldo has 16 in 10 in the CL. Some very good strikers struggle to score that many in a league season.Definitely the best player in the world.

Too Tough To Die

Pep is like an addict chasing that first high. He needs to realise that he will never have a collection of players with the ability to perfect his dream style like his Barca team at their best could. We were lucky to witness that Barca side, people should appreciate that.

Diabhal Beag

Aul Jupp Heyneckes really did a brilliant job

rarnes1

rarnes1 wrote: »

Seen someone in the Utd thread earlier saying they wouldn't want Ancellotti near Utd. Thought it was a mad one. He's top class and has been been for a long time.

For Chelsea to sack him was just as bonkers. He won a few games 8-0 that double winning season. He won two European cups with Milan and bar Liverpools miracle it probably should have been three. Absolutely insane. If he wanted the Arsenal job should Wenger decide to go id gladly have him.

Turtwig

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo has 16 in 10 in the CL. Some very good strikers struggle to score that many in a league season.Definitely the best player in the world.

Modric has been better than him this season. Won't get the recognition though. Something about Carlo and getting the best out of players. It's amazing really.

Ok, slight exaggeration, just want Modric to get some credit dammit!

Seaneh

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo has 16 in 10 in the CL. Some very good strikers struggle to score that many in a league season.Definitely the best player in the world.

Has to be a record?

LuckyLloyd

Fudge You wrote: »

Well do you remember last month when Messi got a hattrick against Madrid.
I really dont know why you bring Barca into this thread. Munich knew what Pep would do...
And also its debatable, where passing football came from, dont think it was invented by pep in 2008. Sure he was brought up on it when he played for barca in the 90s.

Also, this seeming desire to diminish the significance of Barca / Spain 2008 - 2012 is a little bizarre. It wasn't just 'passing football ala Ajax / Milan of previous decades'. It was extremely slow grind out possession retention allied to squeezing high up the pitch with a never before seen intensity. The arguments in this thread are hilarious really. People are kidding themselves if they think the reverses in key games post 2011 are nothing to do with tactical adaptation and merely a facet of Barcelona just aging.

Guardiola took over the best squad in Europe hands down. The tactics he is employing are not getting the best from them.

Rayne Wooney

Ronaldo breaks record for most goals in a CL campaign

Mushy

Seaneh wrote: »

Has to be a record?

Equalled record with his first tonight, 15th of the campaign. 16 is crazy.

Barr

Delighted for Ancelotti … such a great manager

upstairs for coffee

Gary Neville is making an awful wally of himself on twitter.

Gary Neville ‏@GNev2 14 mins

Has Pep ruined German Football!That Will be the next one.. Cycles!!

Son Of A Vidic

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ronaldo breaks record for most goals in a CL campaign

16 in one campaign is almost hard to fathom. An unrivaled goal machine.

dreamers75

Seaneh wrote: »

Has to be a record?

14 was the record Messi had it.

shrewdness

Mushy wrote: »

Equalled record with his first tonight, 15th of the campaign. 16 is crazy.

He'd already equalled the record against Dortmund I thought, along with Messi from a couple of years ago? He's now two clear.

LuckyLloyd

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo has 16 in 10 in the CL. Some very good strikers struggle to score that many in a league season.Definitely the best player in the world.

Not even a conversation right now. Will be interested to see how he gets on in the World Cup.

Bleating Lamb

Missed game,were Bayern poor or Real excellent???....or a bit of both??

shrewdness

WallyGUFC wrote: »

As a United fan, if both managers were available, I wouldn't have Guardiola near the club ever. Tika-taka is boring to watch. Give me the excitement of Real tonight, or United of old, over this pass pass pass repeat any day. Luckily for Guardiola, he's young and has time to adapt his style, and he will really have to. You don't win a game on the possession stats. Bayern have dominated possession tonight and are 4-0 down. Real have created all of the chances and have been truly clinical. That, to me, is exciting football.

Spot on, Gary Neville summed it up well on twitter earlier:

Gary Neville ‏@GNev2 1h
United fans- this is our philosophy ! Scrap that tippy tappy crap!! Fast/ furious / aggressive and real!

MD1990

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Gary Neville is making an awful wally of himself on twitter.

Gary Neville ‏@GNev2 14 mins

Has Pep ruined German Football!That Will be the next one.. Cycles!!

its because English teams can't retain the ball that he is going on this anti tik taka route.Just because Bayern's tik taka tactics were not suited to tonight doesn't mean teams should abandon that style. U need exceptional players to use that style though.

kryogen

rarnes1 wrote: »

Seen someone in the Utd thread earlier saying they wouldn't want Ancellotti near Utd. Thought it was a mad one. He's top class and has been been for a long time.

He will also be delighted with this result

shrewdness

shrewdness wrote: »

Spot on, Gary Neville summed it up well on twitter earlier:

Gary Neville ‏@GNev2 1h
United fans- this is our philosophy ! Scrap that tippy tappy crap!! Fast/ furious / aggressive and real!

Barca spanked United in two finals and Gary wasn't as boisterous then though.

Turtwig

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Missed game,were Bayern poor or Real excellent???....or a bit of both??

Bayern dreadful at defending set plays. Shot themselves in the foot. Got shell shocked and looked like they were ready to be steam rolled over. Toothless in attack. All round Real were excellent. Bayern were excellent at keeping the ball if that counts for anything. Not able to do much, if anything, with it.

shrewdness

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not even a conversation right now. Will be interested to see how he gets on in the World Cup.

Yet some are still adamant he never was or never will be the best, sad really.

The man is a freak, and worryingly(for everyone else) shows no signs of slowing down. A joy to watch.

LuckyLloyd

MD1990 wrote: »

its because English teams can't retain the ball that he is going on this anti tik taka route.Just because Bayern's tik taka tactics were not suited to tonight doesn't mean teams should abandon that style. U need exceptional players to use that style though.

Can't say Bayern don't have exceptional players!!

upstairs for coffee

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Gary Neville is making an awful wally of himself on twitter.

Gary Neville ‏@GNev2 14 mins

Has Pep ruined German Football!That Will be the next one.. Cycles!!

Same chap thinks Moyes should have been given more time...

Soft Falling Rain

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Missed game,were Bayern poor or Real excellent???....or a bit of both??

They gave up after the 1st never mind the 2nd.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

He will also be delighted with this result

Was it you?

I couldn't remember who it was.

It wasn't a jibe btw, just thought it was a mad one to discount Ancellotti

Too Tough To Die

shrewdness wrote: »

Yet some are still adamant he never was or never will be the best, sad really.

The man is a freak, and worryingly(for everyone else) shows no signs of slowing down. A joy to watch.

I think everyone agrees or did agree that if Messi falls off, Ronaldo will be the best. Messi has fallen off somewhat...

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Can't say Bayern don't have exceptional players!!

Different style though and i know im repeating myself at this stage but i cant imagine Toni Kroos for example adapting to Tiki Taka. He likes to shoot or play the ball up to the forward as quick as possible.

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Can't say Bayern don't have exceptional players!!

yes they do.They won the Bundesliga in March.Having such a high line against Real is madness though.

shrewdness

Deleted User wrote: »

Barca spanked United in two finals and Gary wasn't as boisterous then though.

Eh, what has Barca got to do with this? As others have said, this is Bayern that were playing, and it seems to me Neville is commenting on Real Madrid's style and how it is effective. And as he says, it's like Utd's philosophy, in 2008/09 Utd on the counter-attack were brilliant to watch. Unfortunately it's not been like that lately but people want to see that again.

shrewdness

shrewdness wrote: »

Eh, what has Barca got to do with this? As others have said, this is Bayern that were playing, and it seems to me Neville is commenting on Real Madrid's style and how it is effective. And as he says, it's like Utd's philosophy, in 2008/09 Utd on the counter-attack were brilliant to watch. Unfortunately it's not been like that lately but people want to see that again.

The point i was making though is that its perhaps being a bit fickle of Neville to knock tiki taka when it was proven to have been very effective against his own team in the past.

shrewdness

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I think everyone agrees or did agree that if Messi falls off, Ronaldo will be the best. Messi has fallen off somewhat...

Nothing to do with Messi imo, Ronaldo is the best in the world on merit and based on his own performances.

Brendan Filone

Ronaldo hugged Roy Keane on the touchline after the game, nice to see.

shrewdness

shrewdness wrote: »

Nothing to do with Messi imo, Ronaldo is the best in the world on merit and based on his own performances.

Ronaldo has upped the ante but Messi has been dogged with one or two injuries tbf to him also

Brendan Filone

Brendan Filone wrote: »

Ronaldo hugged Roy Keane on the touchline after the game, nice to see.

Brave man. So long as he dont ask him to take a selfie with him