Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid (Second Leg) (Allianz Arena) KO: 7:45PM (ITV1 + TV3)

.jacksparrow.

Poor pep, meant to be heart broken over the death of Tito, now this.

Bad week for him.

Fudge You

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Ahhhh stop with this "destroying tiki-taka". Tiki taka is keeping possession. Doesn't stop a team from defending properly when they lose the ball.

Exactly. Pep said plenty of times, he just wants to keep the ball, and the main reason is, the other team have less of a chance of scoring.

Tonight for exampe, the third goal was a rubbish pass, went straight to Bale, I forget from who.

MisterAnarchy

Seaneh wrote: »

Last years Bayern would have blown 2011 Barca off the park too, it wouldn't have been the hammering it was, but it would have been a Bayern win, last season Bayern were unplayable, their intensity, pace, physical style of play and tactics were perfect and designed to destroy tiki-tika.

No chance,you are seriously underestimating how good that Barcelona side were.

adox

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That's called reasoning, I thought it was sorely lacking and I'd rather not join in with the newspaper headline doomsday sayers if that's alright.

No it's called making excuses for a team being beaten in the semi final of champions league at home 3-0 and 4-0 overall.

kryogen

Agueroooo wrote: »

It was actually 5-2-2-1 for large parts with Bale and Benzema in the second row of 2 and pulling the Bayern midfield wide, and tight on occasions.

really really impressive stuff and the Bayern midfield rendered useless.

I honestly can't say I paid it too much attention, but I know they started with Ronaldo right up top with Benzema, was delighted with the set up, take the risk, you have a bit of insurance, all it takes is one counter attack and this tie is hugely in Madrid favour. And so it was. Beautiful

Fuzzy_Dunlop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This collection of Bayern players did the treble last year and were magnificent in the process - including an annihilation of Barca in the semi. The players are being asked to play in an exploitable and inefficient manner which wastes their rather fine attributes.

Extreme footballing philosophies have no place in football. When you are deliberately choosing not to play in the manner most likely to win you're missing the point.

In fairness, this season they've won the league in record time and are in the final of the cup so could very well do the double. You're making it seem like they've been a complete failure this season due to pep/tikka takka, largely based on this one game.

Now I'm also of the opinion that they were better and more dynamic/exciting last year, but some people go way too far overboard based on one or two games.

LuckyLloyd

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That was a freak result against a jaded Barcelona side ,one that spurred alot of pundits into foolishly saying Bayern would dominate Europe for 5 years .
Bayern have regressed under Guardiola but they were overrated last season .

It was a 7 - 0 trashing sir. It was utter domination by a team playing a far superior brand of football.

LuckyLloyd

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

In fairness, this season they've won the league in record time and are in the final of the cup so could very well do the double. You're making it seem like they've been a complete failure this season due to pep/tikka takka, largely based on this one game.

Now I'm also of the opinion that they were better and more dynamic/exciting last year, but some people go way too far overboard based on one or two games.

The German league has regressed significantly this year. Look at the performances in Europe from the non Dortmund teams. Dortmund are a shadow of what they were last year too.

Mushy

That is the sort of thing Bayern need to do more

Andersonisgod

adox wrote: »

No it's called making excuses for a team being beaten in the semi final of champions league at home 3-0 and 4-0 overall.

No it's reasoning. Something I find to have a bit more substance than hurling around blunt, quasi-prophetic statements like "tiki taka is dead" without giving any reasoning or context.

Montroseee

RIP Tika Taka.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Tika taka was found out long ago, barcelona where mauled by bayern last year.why would pep turn a devestating direct team into a predictable possession based team.

Well i suppose Pep has his philosophy and Bayern (Germany in general) have a different outlook. From that point of view it was a marriage that was always going to be rocky in terms of the European game.

In fairness i disagree it was found out. Just that the likes of Xavi and Iniesta have perhaps gone over the peak points of their careers. It only seems like it was found out but the reality probably is that Barca couldnt keep that dominance up forever. A yard of pace was bound to be lost overall at some stage.

Fudge You

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Bayern have regressed under Guardiola but they were overrated last season .

I agree with you. Barca were overrated when they were the best in spain for 4 years. A good few teams did stop them.
Then Spain themselves were overrated when they won the world cup in 2010, they lost to switzerland, 1-0, (now that was a masterclass by the swiss), then struggled against Paraguay with the crazy penos. Portugal too.
And Bayern were not too good last year, Barely got top spot in the group after losing to Lile, and struggled against Dortmund in the final

Seaneh

This Bayern team should have dominated Europe for several years, instead they are being hamstrung by the dogmatism and tactical naivety of a coach who cares more about "philosophy" than reality.

Stainless_Steel

Montroseee wrote: »

RIP Tika Taka.

Oh for the love of god...

Agueroooo

Is it true Bayern fans paid just £6 for a ticket to tonight's game?

Seaneh

Agueroooo wrote: »

Is it true Bayern fans paid just £6 for a ticket to tonight's game?

I'd believe it for some seats, maybe not all, they treat their fans very well and their ticket prices, on average, are extremely low on a normal night.

klose

Very surprised how well bale settled into madrid so fast

Fudge You

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The German league has regressed significantly this year. Look at the performances in Europe from the non Dortmund teams. Dortmund are a shadow of what they were last year too.

What?
Did you miss them against Madrid bout 3/4 weeks ago. A shadow???? Dont think so.

Francie Barrett

Is Guardiola and Tika Taka done?

Gbear

rob316 wrote: »

Your not the only one. Never got the hype about him, robben is a much better player.

I don't think he's up to much either to be honest.

I mean that in a relative sense. He might be one-dimensional, but it's a very good dimension.

But still, while each player in Bayern's attack has plenty going for them, as a front 4 they're a bit light on sheer quality - miles away from what Barca and Real have.
Football is first and foremost about having good players. Pep didn't magic up Barca's dominance with tactics - he had one of the best players to ever play the game as it's focal point.


There's nothing wrong with how Pep has approached this season IMO. I don't think you can assume he's being dogmatic about it - Barca were still pretty good when he left and I don't think you can attribute Bayern's thumping of Barca to Guardiola or his style of football.

It was always going to be tricky to match what they did last season. The measure of Pep will be how he adapts to this. When all's said and done, he's done pretty well.

Seaneh

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Is Guardiola and Tika Taka done?

For the latter, hopefully.

Pep still has time to adapt and survive.

Stainless_Steel

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Is Guardiola and Tika Taka done?

No. Some people are just talking $hit.

MisterAnarchy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It was a 7 - 0 trashing sir. It was utter domination by a team playing a far superior brand of football.

Against a jaded Barcelona side running on fumes after 5 years of high tempo football.
Most of the Barcelona side havent had a summer off since 2007.

shrewdness

This is Guardiola's heaviest ever competitive defeat as it stands.

Ulysses Gaze

klose wrote: »

Very surprised how well bale settled into madrid so fast

Think it helps that Ronaldo, Modric and even Ancelotti know him (as a player).

Also, Ancelotti is a fantastic man manager and that will have helped him bedding in.

LuckyLloyd

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

No. Some people are just talking $hit.

You want it to be one way. But it's the other way.

Oat23

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The German league has regressed significantly this year. Look at the performances in Europe from the non Dortmund teams. Dortmund are a shadow of what they were last year too.

No.

Bayer are a terrible team in Europe. Always have been and they had the inexperienced Hyypia in charge this season.

Schalke got drawn with Madrid right after the group stage. Tough luck for them.

Dortmund reached the quarter finals with a team decimated by injures all season, before running into Madrid and going out.

Bayern reached the semi-final and are going out deservedly.

The Bundesliga hasn't regressed.

Fudge You

Munich Fans are class. Still a good atmosphere there.

NIMAN

How bad has Riberys career dipped?

Providing next to nothing over these 2 legs. Young RB has him in his back pocket.

And couple of years ago he was being talked of as a £50mill player.:rolleyes:

Fudge You

Fudge You wrote: »

I agree with you. Barca were overrated when they were the best in spain for 4 years. A good few teams did stop them.
Then Spain themselves were overrated when they won the world cup in 2010, they lost to switzerland, 1-0, (now that was a masterclass by the swiss), then struggled against Paraguay with the crazy penos. Portugal too.
And Bayern were not too good last year, Barely got top spot in the group after losing to Lile, and struggled against Dortmund in the final

Ah here, Barca under Pep won

La Liga
2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11

Copa del Rey
Winners 2008–09, 2011–12

Supercopa de España[153]
Winners 2009, 2010, 2011


European Cup / UEFA Champions League[156]
Winners 2008–09, 2010–11


European Super Cup / UEFA Super Cup
2009, 2011

A fair haul for an overrated team. They even had the better of Mourinho's Real for 3 out of the 4 seasons in la liga and also Europe

Spain themselves won the World cup and 2 European championships.

Professional Griefer

Fudge You wrote: »

Munich Fans are class. Still a good atmosphere there.

I don't watch a awful lot of German football, but their fans seem to be like that, they create a incredible atmosphere.

LuckyLloyd

Fudge You wrote: »

What?
Did you miss them against Madrid bout 3/4 weeks ago. A shadow???? Dont think so.

Oat23 wrote: »

No.

Bayer are a terrible team in Europe. Always have been and they had the inexperienced Hyypia in charge this season.

Schalke got drawn with Madrid right after the group stage. Tough luck for them.

Dortmund reached the quarter finals with a team decimated by injures all season, before running into Madrid and going out.

Bayern reached the semi-final and are going out deservedly.

The Bundesliga hasn't regressed.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

Gbear

Seaneh wrote: »

This Bayern team should have dominated Europe for several years, instead they are being hamstrung by the dogmatism and tactical naivety of a coach who cares more about "philosophy" than reality.

Why should they have dominated?

Did someone replace their team with all the best players in Europe when I wasn't looking?

HazDanz

NIMAN wrote: »

How bad has Riberys career dipped?

Providing next to nothing over these 2 legs. Young RB has him in his back pocket.

And couple of years ago he was being talked of as a £50mill player.:rolleyes:

What are you on about? Third best footballer in Europe last year.

AdamD

I've watched Ribery a few times now and I've gotta say I just don't see it. 3rd best player in the world??

Oat23

NIMAN wrote: »

How bad has Riberys career dipped?

Providing next to nothing over these 2 legs. Young RB has him in his back pocket.

And couple of years ago he was being talked of as a £50mill player.:rolleyes:

Carvajal is terrific tbf.

Stainless_Steel

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You want it to be one way. But it's the other way.

What makes you say that?

I'll explain it very simply. A team plays ultra tiki-taka. Passing for the craic like.

They lose the ball. They defend well. They pick up men at set pieces etc.

How in gods name can you "find it out"?

Agueroooo

Love him or hate him ..Pepe is an immense CB.

Andersonisgod

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah here, Barca under Pep won



A fair haul for an overrated team. They even had the better of Mourinho's Real for 3 out of the 4 seasons in la liga and also Europe

Spain themselves won the World cup and 2 European championships.

You're doing it wrong. Generic doomsday slogans are the order of the day, not these facts and reasoning and providing context.

RainMaker

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Against a jaded Barcelona side running on fumes after 5 years of high tempo football.
Most of the Barcelona side havent had a summer off since 2007.

Maybe they should have bought some midfielders or defenders instead of blowing their transfer budget on Neymar... most of Barcelona's problems are self inflicted really.

Liam O

Real had a significant off day in the first leg against Dortmund last year and still nearly clawed it back, I believe they would have beaten Bayern last season, it would have been close yes but Bayern lack something that Real have, one of the top 3 players of all time. Real may not be the most consistent of teams but on their day with both Bale and Ronaldo who are very consistent(very surprisingly to me for Bale) now they are unstoppable when it clicks and they''ve shown the ability to make it click when it counts. Balonaldo is here to stay and Europe beware.

Fudge You

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here, Barca under Pep won



A fair haul for an overrated team. They even had the better of Mourinho's Real for 3 out of the 4 seasons in la liga and also Europe

Spain themselves won the World cup and 2 European championships.

The point I was making that even when you win, you are never as good as they make you out to be.
And likewise, you are never as bad as you are made out to be, when you lose.

Prime example tonight, Munich are not as bad as everyone says, and Madrid are not as good as everyone says.

Fudge You

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

I sense sarcasm. Maybe you forget the second leg Dortmund/ Madrid. Dortmund were so close to putting Madrid out. About 6inches!

LuckyLloyd

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

What makes you say that?

I'll explain it very simply. A team plays ultra tiki-taka. Passing for the craic like.

They lose the ball. They defend well. They pick up men at set pieces etc.

How in gods name can you "find it out"?

Oh okay, Guardiolaball still works, it's just that Barcelona forgot how to defend after 2011 and Bayern forgot same in the space of a year. And Span didn't fancy the Confederations Cup. Got it.

LuckyLloyd

Fudge You wrote: »

I sense sarcasm. Maybe you forget the second leg Dortmund/ Madrid. Dortmund were so close to putting Madrid out. About 6inches!

No, I genuinely concede the point to the reasonable posts. Jaysus.

Fudge You

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, I genuinely concede the point to the reasonable posts. Jaysus.

Whoops a daisy.
My apologies!!

Montroseee

Montroseee wrote: »

RIP Tika Taka.

Tiki Taka is not dead. It will just come back down the line in another manifestation.

Ajax were the original 'tiki-taka's' of the 70s and then AC Milan came along in the late 80s/early 90s with the Dutch spine in their team. Ajax came again in the 90s. Had Ajax not sold that team they would undoubtedly have won more European cups. Which leads us near the present day when Pep and Barca swept all before them. Passing football will never die and thank god for that.

Barr

BM going out without a whimper

Stainless_Steel

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh okay, Guardiolaball still works, it's just that Barcelona forgot how to defend after 2011 and Bayern forgot same in the space of a year. And Span didn't fancy the Confederations Cup. Got it.

Jesus. Read my post again. Tiki-taka <> Defending. If you defend badly, you will lose against good teams. It is not because of your philosophy of keeping the ball.

What you're suggesting is that a lot of managers have suddenly found a genius way of playing against some of the best sides the world has seen. Only the teams with brilliant players stand a chance against the best. It is that simple.