Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Bidding on a house

Options
  • 29-04-2014 2:16pm
    #1
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭


    Looking for some insight into bidding on a house.

    After losing bidding wars on 7 properties so far, we found a property a bit further out that we were planning but it was "perfect" and after viewing the bidding was at asking+15K, so we put in a cash offer of asking+35K. The agent took our details and then told us on the very same phone call that someone called earlier to put in an offer of asking+90K but with a deadline of noon the following day and does that change our offer?

    I told him No, he asked me to put my offer in writing which I did. I rang back the following afternoon to see if they accepted the much higher offer and was told it was declined on the basis that the house has only been on the market for 2 weeks and they feel that it hasn't had enough time yet. Our offer is now the highest offer, the other bidders have dropped out but there are viewings lined up for this week and he would keep me in the loop if anyone else bids.

    By way of a check I had a friend call to see if EA was telling people the bidding is at asking+35K (our offer) or asking+90K (the offer that was turned down). He was told about our bid, not the other one. So at least the story ties in with what we have been told.

    Just looking for opinions on this. Logic tells me that if they refused asking +90K, then either the estate agent or the vendor thinks they can get more than that. However its a very risky play to turn down such a high offer. In order for the EA to not lose face with the vendor he needs to secure at least asking+90 for the house now.

    Does anyone have any advice on how we should proceed? We are in a position to offer more but we were hoping not to go over the amount we already bid. Would it be fair to say there is no way they will sell at that price now, even if no one else bids, as they have an expectation that they can get asking+90k, even if that offer is more or less gone now, since the person who put in the offer has presumably moved on since last week.

    Or is the whole thing a ploy to get the asking+90 bidder to up his offer and we are just pawns in the process, hoping to play the two of us off against each other?


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I bid on a property a while back and got the bit about they wanting it on the market for longer. Needless to say, its still on the market and I talked myself out of it as I got sick of their waiting games.


  • Options
    #3
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    what is the asking price on the property?! I wouldnt expect asking plus 90k unless the place was massively undervalued or a property worth half a million plus, at least!


  • Options
    #4
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    TheDriver, was your offer above asking price?

    I can understand if the offer is at asking or below, that they would want to wait. But when an offer is way above asking, I am struggling to see the logic in turning it down. They could wait months for a similar offer, or never see it again.


  • Options
    #5
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    what is the asking price on the property?! I wouldnt expect asking plus 90k unless the place was massively undervalued or a property worth half a million plus, at least!

    The estate agent is a large, well established agency, been around for a long, long time. They know the market. The asking price was set by them, if it was set too low, then it was a ploy to pull in viewers, because otherwise they haven't a clue what they are doing, which I don't buy.

    Its not SCD. I would presume there isn't the same rush for properties here (the property is in Wicklow). When I viewed it there were 4 other viewers, 3 of us bid. The other two have dropped out. Looking at other houses for sale in the area the asking price does look to be a bit on the low side. But not 90K too low. Or maybe it will go for asking+200K. In this current climate nothing would surprise me. Maybe the SCD insane asking prices has extended all the way down the N11 to Wicklow.


  • Options
    #6
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,334 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    It may very well be the case that they had little faith that the other "bidder" had the ability to finance the purchase and therefore turned it down. At the same time mentioning it to you and other bidders (perhaps) to ginger things along.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    Marcusm wrote: »
    It may very well be the case that they had little faith that the other "bidder" had the ability to finance the purchase and therefore turned it down. At the same time mentioning it to you and other bidders (perhaps) to ginger things along.

    Interesting. But for such a high bid, wouldn't you take the chance that they could complete the sale? You haven't lost anything by accepting it and then having it fall through a few weeks later. Going by the EA logic they want it on the market for a few more weeks anyway.

    I can only assume they think they can get a higher price for it.

    Can I ask anyone out there who has gone sale agreed, did you put in higher bid, then have EA ask you if you would bid higher and you said No. Then they came back and said you got it? Or did you put in a higher bid, EA said they will come back, and then said you go it? In other words, do you have to say No to going higher before you hear back that you got it? Its very difficult to know if you are bidding against yourself.


  • Options
    #8
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    homeOwner wrote: »
    TheDriver, was your offer above asking price?

    I can understand if the offer is at asking or below, that they would want to wait. But when an offer is way above asking, I am struggling to see the logic in turning it down. They could wait months for a similar offer, or never see it again.

    It was about the asking. We asked what it would take for sale to complete and then agreed to the figure. Then suddenly something happened in the owners mind (greed maybe??).


  • Options
    #9
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    homeOwner wrote: »
    Its very difficult to know if you are bidding against yourself.

    Over excited EA is one way, drooling at the mouth over bids. Another is a strange sudden bidder when the house has been sitting there for a while


  • Options
    #10
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    TheDriver wrote: »
    It was about the asking. We asked what it would take for sale to complete and then agreed to the figure. Then suddenly something happened in the owners mind (greed maybe??).

    We had something similar happen a few weeks back. We were the only bidders on a property that was on the market for a long time. EA indicated a particular amount would close the sale. We offered that, then he came back and said they got an offer of 6K more, we offered a further 4K more. Then he came back and said they got an offer of another 10K. (ie 20K more than what they originally indicated they would accept). We walked away. I don't believe there was ever another bidder. He then called us back on Monday to say the other bidder dropped out and they would accept an offer for us matching their offer. We declined. They wont accept our last offer either. No other bidders from what I can tell. Maybe it was all true but in any case they don't seem to be in a hurry to sell.


  • Options
    #11
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,310 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Struggling to see why you'd bid the price up by 20k but maybe it shook off the others who viewed it with you. With that obvious resistance from the others at that price, it would seem like it's close to a market value, it's a bit surprising that someone would be bidding it up by another 55k. What has your experience been in bidding on other properties? What kind of bidding increments were there? My own experience last year was that increments didn't go any higher than 10k and as little as 2k.

    One last thing, don't bid against yourself.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Struggling to see why you'd bid the price up by 20k but maybe it shook off the others who viewed it with you. With that obvious resistance from the others at that price, it would seem like it's close to a market value, it's a bit surprising that someone would be bidding it up by another 55k. What has your experience been in bidding on other properties? What kind of bidding increments were there? My own experience last year was that increments didn't go any higher than 10k and as little as 2k.

    One last thing, don't bid against yourself.

    We decided what was comfortable for us to bid on this house, we didn't want to go backwards and forwards in 2K increments totally dragging out the process by weeks and yes we decided to shake off the other bidders by going in with 20K more.

    Increments have been 3K-10K on most of the houses we have been bidding on. In my experience in the past few months increments are small at the beginning and then someone comes in with a big increase and property goes sale agreed shortly after.

    As regards not bidding against myself, I wish I had a magic mirror to see into the EA's mind. The thing is you dont know if you are bidding against yourself. Most EAs are way too savvy to let anything slip. But then what do I know. I have been outbid on 7 properties in the past 4 months.


  • Options
    #13
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Bit worrying to see estate agents asking bidders for a bid in writing, on the basis that it could be in any way construed as a written note or memorandum of a sale of land.

    Even the prospect of getting dragged into litigation is unpleasant.


  • Options
    #14
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    homeOwner wrote: »
    We had something similar happen a few weeks back. We were the only bidders on a property that was on the market for a long time. EA indicated a particular amount would close the sale. We offered that, then he came back and said they got an offer of 6K more, we offered a further 4K more. Then he came back and said they got an offer of another 10K. (ie 20K more than what they originally indicated they would accept). We walked away. I don't believe there was ever another bidder. He then called us back on Monday to say the other bidder dropped out and they would accept an offer for us matching their offer. We declined. They wont accept our last offer either. No other bidders from what I can tell. Maybe it was all true but in any case they don't seem to be in a hurry to sell.

    Very annoying but in our case, I would have no pity if they were still there in a few years time with their messing around. We were the only bidder, only person interested etc. I don't know how they thought there would be a queue.......


  • Options
    #15
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Some disgraceful carry on described above.

    The old nonsense seems to have reared its ugly head again...


  • Options
    #16
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,618 ✭✭✭Villa05


    homeOwner wrote: »
    Looking for some insight into bidding on a house.

    After losing bidding wars on 7 properties so far, we found a property a bit further out that we were planning but it was "perfect" and after viewing the bidding was at asking+15K, so we put in a cash offer of asking+35K. The agent took our details and then told us on the very same phone call that someone called earlier to put in an offer of asking+90K but with a deadline of noon the following day and does that change our offer?

    20K is 8 months average salary, If somebody offered 20k over the existing offer, I'm pretty sure the EA would assume that this person desperately wants the house so no harm in pushing to see how much they could extract out of them.

    Instinct is telling me 90k+ offer never existed but was a pawn to see how desperate you are

    my 2 cents

    Disclaimer: I'm sheltered from what is happening in Dublin and its environs


  • Options
    #17
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Very annoying but in our case, I would have no pity if they were still there in a few years time with their messing around. We were the only bidder, only person interested etc. I don't know how they thought there would be a queue.......

    It does feel like 2006 all over again. My gut says it can't last and prices will fall back again but I thought the same in 2002 and it lasted another 4 years.

    Meantime life goes on and the kids get older and we get more jaded and soon there will be no point in moving. Maybe we should just ride out their younger years in our tiny house which will be perfectly suitable for us when we are old and grey and they have all moved out.
    First world problems, I know!


  • Options
    #18
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    Villa05 wrote: »
    20K is 8 months average salary, If somebody offered 20k over the existing offer, I'm pretty sure the EA would assume that this person desperately wants the house so no harm in pushing to see how much they could extract out of them.

    Instinct is telling me 90k+ offer never existed but was a pawn to see how desperate you are

    my 2 cents

    Disclaimer: I'm sheltered from what is happening in Dublin and its environs

    I get your point. But as far as the EA knows we have moved on to another property and they have lost the offer. We told him we would not increase on our offer and he said he wanted to wait until the property was on the market for a few weeks. Which makes sense from a vendor's point of view, if you think you can do better. But he doesn't expect us to sit waiting for him to come back to us. He knows we are ready to move and looking at other properties. So either he is a very shrewd poker play after turning down two offers considerably above asking or he genuinely believes he can do better from other parties who have yet to view the house or the house is not actually for sale and its one of those properties that the seller wants the bank to think they are trying to sell but they are not actually trying to sell it.


  • Options
    #19
    Senecio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Senecio


    I'm just about to enter this process and to tell you the truth, this sort of carry on scares me. I know it's not relevant but I much prefer the process from home in Australia.

    The first person to bid enters into a negotiation with the vendor. The vendor must accept or reject the bid and if rejected, the bidder has the right to come back with a revised offer. During this time and before sale agreed the property enters an "under offer" status. Until this process is complete and both parties walk away from the deal the EA can not put any other offers in front of the vendor.

    It just seems a fairer process to me.

    Best of luck OP.


  • Options
    #20
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Im interested in a house thats on offer for 260 asking price. started out at over 300k 18 months ago

    EA tells me there is an offer on the house for 250

    Is there any way of finding out if the EA is telling lies ?


  • Options
    #21
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    mickman wrote: »
    Im interested in a house thats on offer for 260 asking price. started out at over 300k 18 months ago

    EA tells me there is an offer on the house for 250

    Is there any way of finding out if the EA is telling lies ?

    Not really.

    When I hear this from EA I interpret it as - don't bother bidding below this as it wont be accepted. In all the houses I have gone to view, there is always a low-ball offer on the house according to the EA, np matter how long the house has been on the market. Whether there is or not, they have set the floor for the price and the bidding needs to go upwards from there.

    Presumably the person who put in the offer of 250 on the house you are interested in has been told their offer wasn't accepted and has moved on. So is there really a *current* offer of 250? Anyway it doesn't matter because they wont accept anything under that.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    homeOwner wrote: »
    Not really.

    When I hear this from EA I interpret it as - don't bother bidding below this as it wont be accepted. In all the houses I have gone to view, there is always a low-ball offer on the house according to the EA, np matter how long the house has been on the market. Whether there is or not, they have set the floor for the price and the bidding needs to go upwards from there.

    Presumably the person who put in the offer of 250 on the house you are interested in has been told their offer wasn't accepted and has moved on. So is there really a *current* offer of 250? Anyway it doesn't matter because they wont accept anything under that.

    Interesting, thanks for that. I just find it weird that if the asking price was 260 and an offer was made of 250, surely a deal would have been reached ? If the offer was 50k less then i would believe it but 10 k less is not much to haggle over (between seller and buyer)

    Does make sense though that telling me this offer (close to asking price) is there, really meaning that there is no negotiation under that price


  • Options
    #23
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    mickman wrote: »
    Interesting, thanks for that. I just find it weird that if the asking price was 260 and an offer was made of 250, surely a deal would have been reached ? If the offer was 50k less then i would believe it but 10 k less is not much to haggle over (between seller and buyer)

    Maybe the bidder wasn't prepared to go any higher and stuck to the offer of 250K. If the seller wants to sell and the property has been on the market for 18 months, then I presume either they are not in a hurry to move and will wait till they get the price they want which could be anywhere northwards of that....or the house is not really for sale and they are going through the exercise to please the bank.

    If you are interested in the house, maybe you could ask the EA how long ago that offer of 250K was made and if the seller is willing to come down from their asking price (if you are prepared to meet them in the middle). Otherwise you are just bidding fodder for them. If you put in an offer of 252K, the EA will tell people that is the current offer regardless of how long it sits there (like my offer on the house I was interested in).

    Bid what you are comfortable with and be prepared to walk. The EA holds all the cards and is working for the seller.


  • Options
    #24
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    homeOwner wrote: »
    Maybe the bidder wasn't prepared to go any higher and stuck to the offer of 250K. If the seller wants to sell and the property has been on the market for 18 months, then I presume either they are not in a hurry to move and will wait till they get the price they want which could be anywhere northwards of that....or the house is not really for sale and they are going through the exercise to please the bank.

    If you are interested in the house, maybe you could ask the EA how long ago that offer of 250K was made and if the seller is willing to come down from their asking price (if you are prepared to meet them in the middle). Otherwise you are just bidding fodder for them. If you put in an offer of 252K, the EA will tell people that is the current offer regardless of how long it sits there (like my offer on the house I was interested in).

    Bid what you are comfortable with and be prepared to walk. The EA holds all the cards and is working for the seller.

    but asking price online is 260k? I cant believe that if an offer of 250 was made , surely they would have agreed on 255

    house is defo for sale as there is no one living in it and its a new build

    House is kinda perfect for us but as people have said , we will walk away if its not right.

    If viewing goes ok then ill make offer of 255 (max) and say i need the offer accepted in 24 hours


  • Options
    #25
    homeOwner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭homeOwner


    mickman wrote: »
    house is defo for sale as there is no one living in it and its a new build

    I would be thinking in that case the person selling is not in a rush to sell. They can sit and wait for their asking price. They have waited 18 months.
    Different story if its a family and they want to move somewhere else they would be eager to do a deal.
    You have nothing to lose by making your offer. Let us know how it goes and good luck with it.


  • Options
    #26
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    A friend househunting was told by the EA that some properties are up for sale as the owner is under pressure from the bank but wont accept any offer that will leave them in NE even though its listed at current market value. Don't know why it wouldnt be repossessed and sold in that case though.


  • Options
    #27
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    homeOwner wrote: »
    I would be thinking in that case the person selling is not in a rush to sell. They can sit and wait for their asking price. They have waited 18 months.
    Different story if its a family and they want to move somewhere else they would be eager to do a deal.
    You have nothing to lose by making your offer. Let us know how it goes and good luck with it.

    True. There is a house next door that is axactly same build except a bit bigger. Could be the builder. You often see that someone builds two houses beside each other and sells one.

    I suppose things have changed, when i bought my first house 10 years ago then 10k wouldnt have been a problem to strike a deal over. nowadays buyers just make an offer and move on


  • Options
    #28
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Some disgraceful carry on described above.

    The old nonsense seems to have reared its ugly head again...

    Exactly. People will have to hold tight. Make their offer and don't be codded into chasing an often imaginary other bidder. Decide on your limit and if not accepted walk away. If you can't manage that then you deserve what you get.


  • Options
    #29
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    homeOwner wrote: »
    Not really.

    When I hear this from EA I interpret it as - don't bother bidding below this as it wont be accepted. In all the houses I have gone to view, there is always a low-ball offer on the house according to the EA, np matter how long the house has been on the market. Whether there is or not, they have set the floor for the price and the bidding needs to go upwards from there.

    Presumably the person who put in the offer of 250 on the house you are interested in has been told their offer wasn't accepted and has moved on. So is there really a *current* offer of 250? Anyway it doesn't matter because they wont accept anything under that.

    Whatever bid is made the Estate Agent is obliged to bring it to the seller. If it's rejected then you know where the starting point is.


  • Options
    #30
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Whatever bid is made the Estate Agent is obliged to bring it to the seller. If it's rejected then you know where the starting point is.

    obligated yes but that doesnt mean that it happens

    More i think about it the more i reckon that the "offer" isnt real and that price is the min they will even discuss cos it would have cost that much to build the house


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    conjon
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭conjon


    We had some similiar issues while bidding on a house recently. We put in a final offer on a Friday and had requested final confirmation on the Monday. I had my dad call then to express and interest in the house. He was told that it had pretty much gone sale agreed to someone whom was selling their own (ie us). Come Monday, we got a call that evening to state that the sellers had accepted 1k more over the weekend (which the EA never told us) and that the seller had accepted this offer from a first time buyer as there was less risk involved.

    The carry on of some EAs is poor (and thats being polite). The whole thing left such a sour taste in our mouths, that we said fug it, pulled out of the sale of ours and have decided to renovate.

    My heart goes out to folks bidding on houses right now.


Advertisement