Why are Sinn Fein "bad"?

drquirky · 02-05-2014 10:40pm

Nodin wrote: »

So the support for gay marriage, more abortion rights, an amnesty for all illegals in the state, that's just a figment of my imagination then? Reading the above, I genuinely believe you no absolutely nothing about SF policies and attitudes.

Bit odd that one of the people that thanked your post is claiming they are Marxist at some length and the other is thanking them for doing so. Is there some kind of "doublethink" going on?

If I thought they actually supported those things I'd give them a thought in the election. Unfortunately I don't- I consider myself a left wing humanist who has no time for extra judicial killing and dogmatic nationalism . Tbh they'd be marching my type off to a shallow grave on a beach in Louth if they ever took power so honestly they can take their antiquated nationalism (fascism ) elsewhere

alastair · 02-05-2014 10:59pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

When it comes to 'evidence' in relation to something SF has done, none is required around these parts. Get with the programme Nodin!;)

There's plenty of evidence provided for what you're referring to - Adams' membership of the IRA.

Nodin · 02-05-2014 11:58pm

drquirky wrote: »

If I thought they actually supported those things I'd give them a thought in the election. Unfortunately I don't- I consider myself a left wing humanist who has no time for extra judicial killing and dogmatic nationalism . ..........

A quick scan of my posts might show where I stand in relation to the description "left wing humanist".

And yes, they "actually" support these things and have done for many, many years
http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/contents/738
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/catholic-bishops-urge-rejection-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-stormont-motion-on-same-sex-marriage-1.1776870
- hardly the actions and words of those "beholden to Rome and it's values".

As regards "facism" and this notion of racism
http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2009/Policies_Racism.pdf
http://republican-news.org/archive/1999/December16/16asy2.html
(they also support mandatory anti-racism education in the schools)
which rather undermines your notion that they will be "promoting some sort of convoluted "purity" of Irishness"

And they would, were they racist, have a strange way of going about it....
https://twitter.com/PaulDonnellySF/status/461840147475349504/photo/1
http://www.irishexaminer.com/media/images/e/exam100214NelsonMandelaTribute_large.jpg

Dan_Solo · 03-05-2014 12:04am

drquirky wrote: »

If I thought they actually supported those things I'd give them a thought in the election. Unfortunately I don't- I consider myself a left wing humanist who has no time for extra judicial killing and dogmatic nationalism .

So to be clear, you therefore also do not vote Fianna Fail, Fine Gael or Labour, all of whom support extra judicial killing through facilitating the USA's illegal wars?

shootermacg · 03-05-2014 12:06am

Anyone who put their life on the line for their ideals is already head and shoulders above the career (joined the debating society in uni) politicians in my book.

FF waste our best years, FG come in and tax the middle classes to pay the debts. This cycle goes back to Haughey and Fitzgerald.

I for one am sick of this, I'd vote for Dustin the turkey at this stage. Oh and SF can have my vote, talk all you want but, the alternative is to be lied to by cnuts that don't even care if you believe them or not.

Police corruption, bankers walking, white collar crime going unpunished, this has to end!

FF got a second term using the slogan "Better the devil you know", vote SF just to let those twatts know you are not going to alternate between two evils forever (not counting labour who are just saprophytes or the Greens who are just failed teachers with delusions of grandeur).

Keep voting for the new kids on the block until you're happy with the results, do not give useless TDs a second term, for the love of god!

Molester Stallone · 03-05-2014 12:16am

Some People seem to think that there would be change with a SF coalition government, there wouldn't, same old ding dong, just different faces

shootermacg · 03-05-2014 12:20am

Molester Stallone wrote: »

Some People seem to think that there would be change with a SF coalition government, there wouldn't, same old ding dong, just different faces

Keep changing the faces then, vote with your feet!

Molester Stallone · 03-05-2014 12:29am

shootermacg wrote: »

Keep changing the faces then, vote with your feet!

Don't think we're allowed kick them in the face

shootermacg · 03-05-2014 1:40pm

Molester Stallone wrote: »

Don't think we're allowed kick them in the face

Well all I know is swords are out this year!:D

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 1:55pm

Molester Stallone wrote: »

Some People seem to think that there would be change with a SF coalition government, there wouldn't, same old ding dong, just different faces

So do you suggest we continue to vote for the same old ding dong as we suspect that regardless of who we vote for we will get the same old ding dong anyway? :eek:

I am so sick of the ding dong that I am willing to take a chance - even if it is a long shot.

marienbad · 03-05-2014 1:58pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So do you suggest we continue to vote for the same old ding dong as we suspect that regardless of who we vote for we will get the same old ding dong anyway? :eek:

I am so sick of the ding dong that I am willing to take a chance - even if it is a long shot.

Bearing in mind the legacy they were left with, how well or how badly do you think the current government are doing ?

oscarBravo · 03-05-2014 2:08pm

Why are Sinn Féin "bad"?

Because their support for policing in Northern Ireland is conditional on being exempt from it, apparently.

Seaneh · 03-05-2014 2:09pm

Molester Stallone wrote: »

Some People seem to think that there would be change with a SF coalition government, there wouldn't, same old ding dong, just different faces

Sure feck it so, no point worrying about these things, it'll be the same anyway.

Quick, phone Bertie and Biffo and tell them they can come back, sure it makes no difference anyway.

realweirdo · 03-05-2014 2:10pm

The irony of sinn fein complaining about bad timing of something like this in the run up to an election cannot be lost on some given how they scuppered Sean Dunnes presidential campaign.

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 2:13pm

drquirky wrote: »

If I thought they actually supported those things I'd give them a thought in the election. Unfortunately I don't- I consider myself a left wing humanist who has no time for extra judicial killing and dogmatic nationalism . Tbh they'd be marching my type off to a shallow grave on a beach in Louth if they ever took power so honestly they can take their antiquated nationalism (fascism ) elsewhere

Even though they have advocated and when possible voted for these things you don't believe them because your gut says they are lying despite the evidence to the contrary and you also believe time will turn back and we will be back where we were before SF brokered a ceasefire?

I take it you have no time for the British government either - or do you think the shootings in Gibraltar were 'judicial'?

All I can say is that as a lesbian, I rate my chances of attaining full equality with my fellow heterosexual citizens to be a whole lot higher under an SF stewardship than either FF or FG. The former gave us the 'dog licence' known as Civil Partnership while FG are dragging their heels and have yet - despite the promises - to sort out the anomalies in adoption law which denies Gay couple the right to adopt as a couple even if Civil Partnered.

Nor have I heard one word of complaint from friends who work with asylum seekers about SF - none of whom have a good word to say for FF/FG/LP and are furious at the current treatment of asylum seekers.

'Dogmatic Nationalism' is that a countrywide extension of the 'Dogmatic Parishism' that has ruled the political roost for decades?

Imagine having TDs who see the country as a whole entity rather than a taoiseach who seemed unsure if Donegal was in the R.O.I or not...

alastair · 03-05-2014 2:15pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why are Sinn Féin "bad"?

Because their support for policing in Northern Ireland is conditional on being exempt from it, apparently.

Amazingly poor political response from McGuinness. I'd normally credit SF with being quite astute and canny in judging their response to an emerging situation, either good or bad, but this is just inept petulance, and exposes them to new rounds of suspicion.

shootermacg · 03-05-2014 2:16pm

realweirdo wrote: »

The irony of sinn fein complaining about bad timing of something like this in the run up to an election cannot be lost on some given how they scuppered Sean Dunnes presidential campaign.

No, what did that was him trying to recall which dodgy act SF were referring to, live on TV.

Delighted with the result, SF really did us a favour there, MDH is a brilliant choice!

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 2:18pm

realweirdo wrote: »

The irony of sinn fein complaining about bad timing of something like this in the run up to an election cannot be lost on some given how they scuppered Sean Dunnes presidential campaign.

Sean Dunne ran for president??

News to me.

I seem to recall a fake SF twitter account mentioned something about a Mr Sean Gallagher being an FF bagman even as he denied any connection to the that party and when put on the spot he blustered and bumbled but was unable to deny it...
Perhaps we were watching two different Prime Times featuring two different sets of Presidential candidates....

alastair · 03-05-2014 2:19pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Even though they have advocated and when possible voted for these things you don't believe them because your gut says they are lying despite the evidence to the contrary and you also believe time will turn back and we will be back where we were before SF brokered a ceasefire?

I take it you have no time for the British government either - or do you think the shootings in Gibraltar were 'judicial'?

Those are our only options then? SF or a SAS squad responding to an IRA bomb crew? Rather more binary than I'd imagined.

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 2:34pm

marienbad wrote: »

Bearing in mind the legacy they were left with, how well or how badly do you think the current government are doing ?

I resigned from the LP - how do you think I believe our current government are doing?

Phil Hogan James O Reilly/ Alan Shatter - That's how I think our current government are doing.

I see pay ceilings that don't actually apply.
I see more and more quangos with more jobs for the favoured boys and girls.
I see our infrastructure crumbling but unsecured gamblers being paid for punts on banks that went belly up.
I see Medical Health cards been taken off sick six year olds so healthy five years olds can have one regardless of family income.
I see children with special needs being deprived of their right to an education while TDs get an allowance for dry cleaning.
I see well heeled university students p*ss their heavily subsidised education up the wall while teaching staff are burning out due to the jobs embargo.
I see First Class Honours students emigrate so Australia and Canada can benefit from our subsidised - and collapsing - the Third level.
I see government ministers using confidential information to score points in the Dáil rather than address the issues raised.
I see our future generation leaving in droves - as I did myself in the 1980s - but this time I don't think they are coming back as so many of I and my fellow exiles did in the 1990s when it really looked like Ireland was about to enter the 20th century riding the wave of the Robinson feel good factor.

If I thought the current government was more than the same old ding dog do you think I would be looking at SF?

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 2:38pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why are Sinn Féin "bad"?

Because their support for policing in Northern Ireland is conditional on being exempt from it, apparently.

and no politician in the ROI considers themselves exempt from the law...

:pac:

ummm...I thought NI wasn't relevant???

Seaneh · 03-05-2014 2:46pm

alastair wrote: »

Those are our only options then? SF or a SAS squad responding to an IRA bomb crew? Rather more binary than I'd imagined.

Binary means only two options... are you saying the options are even less than his post suggests?

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 2:48pm

alastair wrote: »

Those are our only options then? SF or a SAS squad responding to an IRA bomb crew? Rather more binary than I'd imagined.

Woah...step back from the hyperbole there alaister... I think should an SAS squad respond to an IRA bomb (is that official/provisional/real/continuity IRA btw? ) it would indicate things have gone seriously belly up here in the republic

Our party 'choices' as they stand in the ROI are:

FF - s'rously... I'd cut my hand off first.
FG - see above.
Labour - HA! The only people associated with them I would consider voting for are the ones who resigned from the party.
SF - looking for good reasons why not - 'good' defined as not equally applicable to the other parties and not based on unsubstantiated rhetoric or right wing polemics.

Then we have fairly loose political alliances such as PBP and independents - potential for instability but I would give some of them a vote...

alastair · 03-05-2014 2:48pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and no politician in the ROI considers themselves exempt from the law

Deluding yourself that you're personally above the law is quite a distance from suggesting that a governing party might 'review' it's support for their police service, and an entire community should 'remain calm' until they get confirmation of their police service's decision to charge a suspect in a murder or not. That's not a party at the service of society, but one attempting to hold it to ransom.

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 2:50pm

shootermacg wrote: »

No, what did that was him trying to recall which dodgy act SF were referring to, live on TV.

Delighted with the result, SF really did us a favour there, MDH is a brilliant choice!

Would that be the seriously left-wing (which apparently the Irish people have no truck with) MDH?

alastair · 03-05-2014 2:50pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Woah...step back from the hyperbole there alaister...

Just responding to the choices you offered. You were saying about hyperbole?

alastair · 03-05-2014 2:52pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Binary means only two options... are you saying the options are even less than his post suggests?

Her post offered two options - so; binary. If you need a further prompt - my understanding is that there are myriad greater options available to people to choose from (including not being a fan of either SF or extra-judicial killings from special services forces).

realweirdo · 03-05-2014 2:58pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sean Dunne ran for president??

News to me.

I seem to recall a fake SF twitter account mentioned something about a Mr Sean Gallagher being an FF bagman even as he denied any connection to the that party and when put on the spot he blustered and bumbled but was unable to deny it...
Perhaps we were watching two different Prime Times featuring two different sets of Presidential candidates....

Sean gallagher i meant.

The fact remains it was pretty underhanded for good or ill.

My understanding is Adams walked into a psni station for questioning. There was always a likelihood he'd be arrested. Not sure what the issue is here. Postponing arrests until after elections would be a bigger evil

I hope Adams has his day in court to prove his innocence of what he is being accussed of. Its more than was granted jean mcconville and other disappeared.

Bannasidhe · 03-05-2014 3:00pm

alastair wrote: »

Deluding yourself that you're personally above the law is quite a distance from suggesting that a governing party might 'review' it's support for their police service, and an entire community should 'remain calm' until they get confirmation of their police service's decision to charge a suspect in a murder or not. That's not a party at the service of society, but one attempting to hold it to ransom.

Sure...that is why Charlie Haughey was put on trial after the Mahon Tribunal..nothing to do with him being above the law...

The PNSI had those tapes since last July. Why wasn't Adams questioned before now? Tapes, by the way, that fall under the category of 'hearsay' and are inadmissible in a court of law.

Or do you really believe that a police force that was so anathema to sections of the society they were charged with policing that they had to rebuild and rebrand but retained members of the old force are now strictly kosher?

Given that our own police force is reeling from scandal to scandal and has been shown to be out of control on several occasions with officers bend on following their own personal agenda and using their position to do so I think it is naive to expect the PNSI to be all above board.

alastair · 03-05-2014 3:02pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sure...that is why Charlie Haughey was put on trial after the Mahon Tribunal..nothing to do with him being above the law...

The PNSI had those tapes since last July. Why wasn't Adams questioned before now? Tapes, by the way, that fall under the category of 'hearsay' and are inadmissible in a court of law.

Or do you really believe that a police force that was so anathema to sections of the society they were charged with policing that they had to rebuild and rebrand but retained members of the old force are now strictly kosher?

Given that our own police force is reeling from scandal to scandal and has been shown to be out of control on several occasions with officers bend on following their own personal agenda and using their position to do so I think it is naive to expect the PNSI to be all above board.

So, you're with McGuinness then - citizens should remain calm until there's confirmation a suspect in a murder hasn't been charged? Just like happened with Charlie Haughey. :rolleyes:

Why are Sinn Fein "bad"?

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