Why are Sinn Fein "bad"?

marienbad

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I resigned from the LP - how do you think I believe our current government are doing?

Phil Hogan James O Reilly/ Alan Shatter - That's how I think our current government are doing.

I see pay ceilings that don't actually apply.
I see more and more quangos with more jobs for the favoured boys and girls.
I see our infrastructure crumbling but unsecured gamblers being paid for punts on banks that went belly up.
I see Medical Health cards been taken off sick six year olds so healthy five years olds can have one regardless of family income.
I see children with special needs being deprived of their right to an education while TDs get an allowance for dry cleaning.
I see well heeled university students p*ss their heavily subsidised education up the wall while teaching staff are burning out due to the jobs embargo.
I see First Class Honours students emigrate so Australia and Canada can benefit from our subsidised - and collapsing - the Third level.
I see government ministers using confidential information to score points in the Dáil rather than address the issues raised.
I see our future generation leaving in droves - as I did myself in the 1980s - but this time I don't think they are coming back as so many of I and my fellow exiles did in the 1990s when it really looked like Ireland was about to enter the 20th century riding the wave of the Robinson feel good factor.

If I thought the current government was more than the same old ding dog do you think I would be looking at SF?

Some of the above was inherited , more is just how politics is conducted in Ireland , but most of it is made of issues serious though they may be are just way down the list of what needed to be done to save this country from imploding completely.

I could just as easily compile a different list FOI/Credit Unions/Whistleblowers / Independent oversite/Independent Hiring/Independent Salary Review etc etc

If everything on your list and on my list was accomplished and to the detriment of what has actually been accomplished then it wouldn't matter as the country would have been down the toilet.

After all we gave FF 10 years to wreck the place so I don't think 3 years is going to fix it.

fergus1001

FF= Corruption
FG= corruption
Labour= FG lapdogs/ do not stand for what labour should
SF = only party that has not been in power yet and has not fed me election lies


And about the republican **** brush up on your history of FF and FG the caused massive bloodshed in Ireland back in the day and many of there crimes brushed under the carpet in the name of peace

Ignorance is bliss I suppose

Bannasidhe

alastair wrote: »

Just responding to the choices you offered. You were saying about hyperbole?

Where did I refer to the SAS???

Or bombs for that matter....?

I was responding to a poster whose gut says SF are lying through their teeth about their policies ( rich considering we know every other Irish party does that) but has squat in the way of evidence to support his gut- who also laid the charge of extra judicial killings at their door and I pointed out that their members where also the subject of extra judicial killings carried out by their own government.

Murder begat murder and atrocity begat atrocity and no side covered themselves in glory - but we must hold only SF to task??

Will we be seeing any solider involved in Bloody Sunday arrested soon?
How about some of the Dublin bombers ?- I hear the British government has information on those.

Personally - I'd arrest the lot of them and put them all on trial. But I don't see that happening. I see one side in a vicious Civil War being scrutinised while the other goes scot free.

alastair

fergus1001 wrote: »

FF= Corruption
FG= corruption
Labour= FG lapdogs/ do not stand for what labour should
SF = only party that has not been in power yet and has not fed me election lies

Sorted that for you there.

Seaneh

alastair wrote: »

Her post offered two options - so; binary. If you need a further prompt - my understanding is that there are myriad greater options available to people to choose from (including not being a fan of either SF or extra-judicial killings from special services forces).

So less binary, not more binary. Because you said more binary.

alastair

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Where did I refer to the SAS???

Or bombs for that matter....?.

You posited Gibraltar as a counter to criticism of SF. That's pretty much all about the SAS and bombs.

alastair

Seaneh wrote: »

So less binary, not more binary. Because you said more binary.

A binary equation is rather more binary than an equation involved a larger number of variables. Not rather less.

Bannasidhe

marienbad wrote: »

Some of the above was inherited , more is just how politics is conducted in Ireland , but most of it is made of issues serious though they may be are just way down the list of what needed to be done to save this country from imploding completely.

I could just as easily compile a different list FOI/Credit Unions/Whistleblowers / Independent oversite/Independent Hiring/Independent Salary Review etc etc

If everything on your list and on my list was accomplished and to the detriment of what has actually been accomplished then it wouldn't matter as the country would have been down the toilet.

After all we gave FF 10 years to wreck the place so I don't think 3 years is going to fix it.

We gave FF 80 years to wreck the place with occasional flurries of FG taxing the arse out of the middle and lower to get it back to where we started - That is how politics (dis) functions in Ireland and I am sick of it.

That's just the way it is doesn't cut it any more.

Sorry about the massive debts grandkids, but sure that's how politics happens in Ireland. 'That's just the way it is' doesn't cut it any more.

Bannasidhe

alastair wrote: »

You posited Gibraltar as a counter to criticism of SF. That's pretty much all about the SAS and bombs.

No.

I mentioned Gibraltar as an example of extra judicial killings that everyone seems to have forgotten about as it wasn't committed by the IRA (in one of it's incarnations) but by an elected government.

alastair

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We gave FF 80 years to wreck the place with occasional flurries of FG taxing the arse out of the middle and lower to get it back to where we started - That is how politics (dis) functions in Ireland and I am sick of it.

That's just the way it is doesn't cut it any more.

Sorry about the massive debts grandkids, but sure that's how politics happens in Ireland. 'That's just the way it is' doesn't cut it any more.

You'd rather lean on the heritage and outcomes of SF's policy over the last 80 years, eh?

alastair

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

I mentioned Gibraltar as an example of extra judicial killings that everyone seems to have forgotten about as it wasn't committed by the IRA (in one of it's incarnations) but by an elected government.

I doubt anyone has forgotten about it (though you seem to have forgotten the aspects involving a planned bombing by the IRA, and the involvement of the SAS?). But asides from whataboutery, how does this engage the points made about SF's record?

Bannasidhe

alastair wrote: »

So, you're with McGuinness then - citizens should remain calm until there's confirmation a suspect in a murder hasn't been charged? Just like happened with Charlie Haughey. :rolleyes:

Do you have a jet pack to help you make those giant leaps?

Has Adams been convicted? No.
Is there enough evidence to bring him to trial? We don't know.
Was there enough evidence to bring Haughey to trial? Yes.
Was he arrested and held for days? No.
Was he brought to trial? No.

What part are you having problems with?

alastair

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Do you have a jet pack to help you make those giant leaps?

Has Adams been convicted? No.
Is there enough evidence to bring him to trial? We don't know.
Was there enough evidence to bring Haughey to trial? Yes.
Was he arrested and held for days? No.
Was he brought to trial? No.

What part are you having problems with?

That none of the above has anything to do with the glaringly obvious problems with McGuinnesses' position in relation to the arrest, and support for the police service?

marienbad

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We gave FF 80 years to wreck the place with occasional flurries of FG taxing the arse out of the middle and lower to get it back to where we started - That is how politics (dis) functions in Ireland and I am sick of it.

That's just the way it is doesn't cut it any more.

Sorry about the massive debts grandkids, but sure that's how politics happens in Ireland. 'That's just the way it is' doesn't cut it any more.

What does all this even mean ??

We found ourselves in hoc and at the last election we choose the parties that we thought best equipped to get us out of that position.

Now just over 3 years later on that specific goal how do you think they have done ? Say on a scale of 1 to 10 ?

shootermacg

marienbad wrote: »

What does all this even mean ??

We found ourselves in hoc and at the last election we choose the parties that we thought best equipped to get us out of that position.

Now just over 3 years later on that specific goal how do you think they have done ? Say on a scale of 1 to 10 ?

0, is that good enough for you? I'd say they did exactly the same as what FF would have done in the same position. We kicked FF out the door, why would vote for more of the same.

marienbad

shootermacg wrote: »

0, is that good enough for you? I'd say they did exactly the same as what FF would have done in the same position. We kicked FF out the door, why would vote for more of the same.

How about we judge people on what they did do ?

shootermacg

marienbad wrote: »

How about we judge people on what they did do ?

Property tax, water rates, it depresses me when I have a company trying to make a profit from a basic human right! So our infrastructure needs upgrading, please just tax me until we fix the problem. DO NOT charge me by the cup!

marienbad

shootermacg wrote: »

Property tax, water rates, it depresses me when I have a company trying to make a profit from a basic human right! So our infrastructure needs upgrading, please just tax me until we fix the problem. DO NOT charge me by the cup!

There is a valid case that these are the fairest kind of taxes, the more you use or own the more you pay.

Now all those golf courses watering their greens and big houses and their fountains will have to pony up or go green .

Considering the size of the hole we were in and that the commitment was already made to the Troika by FF there was little alternative. It is not as if it was a surprise.

shootermacg

marienbad wrote: »

There is a valid case that these are the fairest kind of taxes, the more you use or own the more you pay.

Regardless, the rate is based on the required costs for making profit and bonus payments. Their attitude towards this "cash cow" is reflected in how much money they threw at obtaining charging information.

marienbad

shootermacg wrote: »

Regardless, the rate is based on the required costs for making profit and bonus payments. Their attitude towards this "cash cow" is reflected in how much money they threw at obtaining charging information.

You could equally argue this is the most efficient method . Or is this just a private vs public discussion ?

On my broader point - do you thing they have done a good job on what they were elected to do - i.e get us out of the hole FF left us in ?

Dan_Solo

marienbad wrote: »

There is a valid case that these are the fairest kind of taxes, the more you use or own the more you pay.

Quite happy to pay for the water I use myself. The problem is I'm already paying for it in my taxes, so these charges are just so my tax can now be used to pay of failed banks and bailouts.
Can I pay just for the roads I use now too?

marienbad

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Quite happy to pay for the water I use myself. The problem is I'm already paying for it in my taxes, so these charges are just so my tax can now be used to pay of failed banks and bailouts.
Can I pay just for the roads I use now too?

Then failed banks trope is threadbare at this stage whatever the rights and wrongs of it.

The fact is we have to deal with the economy today and even now we are still not balancing our books .

And historically we never had a problem paying such taxes until FF in the give away budget of 1969 (I think) where they abolished rates . And that was when we were a much poorer economy . We have struggled ever since to find a replacement method for local services .

So given the hand they were dealt when they arrived in Government in 2011 how do you think the coalition have done and what could have been different ?

realweirdo

Every political party says something along the lines of the following when they are in opposition (Sinn Fein included):

"We will end austerity, we will let banks fail, we will put bankers on trial, we will reduce taxes, and increase spending, we won't introduce new taxes including stealth taxes."

And when they get into power, and examine the books and understand the fact we are spending 10 billion yearly more than we take in, and our national debt is headed for 100% GDP, what do you think they decide to do once in power?

It's easy to make grandiose election promises but it would be foolish to actually implement many of those promises in the light of how this country is BROKE.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Bannasidhe

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Which answers the question re: How well have the current government done.

Not very well apparently.


Cut Cut Cut
Tax Tax Tax

and here were at 125%...

On deary deary me...

alastair

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which answers the question re: How well have the current government done.

Not very well apparently.


Cut Cut Cut
Tax Tax Tax

and here were at 125%...

On deary deary me...

You seem to have forgotten that reduced taxes and increased spending is what landed us in this fix.

marienbad

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which answers the question re: How well have the current government done.

Not very well apparently.


Cut Cut Cut
Tax Tax Tax

and here were at 125%...

On deary deary me...

How else would you bridge the gap ? We can debate the nature and direction of cuts and taxes but nor the fact that they were required.

Manach

A counter argument would be that a less burdensome tax burden allows people to purchase and invest in products and education that benefits them directly instead of being a war chest for re-election for the government,

Bannasidhe

alastair wrote: »

You seem to have forgotten that reduced taxes and increased spending is what landed us in this fix.

Did the international downturn and the utter failure to apply any form of competent regulation to the financial markets and then agreeing to provide a blanket guarantee on bad bank debts not have a teeny bit to do with it?

As for the sheer wastage of public funds on essentials like electronic voting machines that certainly couldn't have been a factor

Tax incentives for buildings even if it was a 4k estate aimed at Dublin workers but built outside a village of 200 Leitrim - or student flats...amazing the places one can find 'student flats' - bloody great idea. Let's do that again!

No - lets gift people a wodge of taxpayer's money if they agree to save their own money in a special bank account. That's the one! That is the vote winner! What could possibly go wrong...

marienbad

Manach wrote: »

A counter argument would be that a less burdensome tax burden allows people to purchase and invest in products and education that benefits them directly instead of being a war chest for re-election for the government,

Ireland is not a high tax economy by euro standards .