New Mobile Phone Laws effective May 1st

IsThisOneFree

Hi All

with this law coming into force tomorrow, I can find sod all information online about what exactly the new law states. My Mum said that she heard on the radio that the use of handsfree kits will now also be illegal. Does anybody know if this is true ? And if so, is it isolated to the handsfree kits that come with mobile phones, or are "plumbed in" hands free kits also be illegal now ?

I've also heard also that, strictly speaking, using your mobile phone while your car is OFF, but the keys are in the ignition, will also be illegal. Seems a tad extreme to say the least

Anyway, just wondering if anybody has seen anything in local press, online or anywhere else about the details of this new legislation ? Granted ignorance to the law is no excuse, but likewise surely the government have an obligation to ensure that the necessary information is made available to the public

Anybody have any further light to shed on this at all ?

IsThisOneFree

apologies, should probably have posted this in legal rather than motoring. please feel free to move it if necessary

corktina

As I understand it, the new law is to stop people using a phone even in a cradle to text or use social media..... you'll be able to use a totally handsfree phone but can't use the keypad whilst driving. It's just bunging up a loophole really, noting to worry about

Gumbo

corktina wrote: »

As I understand it, the new law is to stop people using a phone even in a cradle to text or use social media..... you'll be able to use a totally handsfree phone but can't use the keypad whilst driving. It's just bunging up a loophole really, noting to worry about

So using the oem Bluetooth systems or the likes of the parrots that sync phone books etc will be fine is what I imagine.

Greenmachine

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Hi All

with this law coming into force tomorrow, I can find sod all information online about what exactly the new law states. My Mum said that she heard on the radio that the use of handsfree kits will now also be illegal. Does anybody know if this is true ? And if so, is it isolated to the handsfree kits that come with mobile phones, or are "plumbed in" hands free kits also be illegal now ?

I've also heard also that, strictly speaking, using your mobile phone while your car is OFF, but the keys are in the ignition, will also be illegal. Seems a tad extreme to say the least

Anyway, just wondering if anybody has seen anything in local press, online or anywhere else about the details of this new legislation ? Granted ignorance to the law is no excuse, but likewise surely the government have an obligation to ensure that the necessary information is made available to the public

Anybody have any further light to shed on this at all ?

Believe it will be an offense once you are in the drivers seat. Key does not even have to be in the ignition.

Pov06

So basically if I am using my phone as GPS and I park the car I cannot use the phone from the driver's seat? :eek:

Bpmull

Can you still use earphones with the built in mic so you would have your handsfree? Or does it have to be bluetooth ?

IsThisOneFree

If that's the case, sounds like you can't use your phone as a GPS full stop, right ?

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but I wonder - using my phone as a camera while driving, presumably illegal. However, using a camera while driving, not illegal ?? Sorry, I don't meant to stray away from the point here .... just trying to demonstrate that this legislation seems to be very poorly thought out

Pov06

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

If that's the case, sounds like you can't use your phone as a GPS full stop, right ?

Surely that can't be right

IsThisOneFree

Pov06 wrote: »

Surely that can't be right

Well, if it's going to be illegal while sitting in the drivers seat and stationary, it'll still be illegal while the car is moving. The whole thing seems vague at best. And with nothing in the media about it (at least that I've seen) nobody has any way of knowing the "rumours" (such as the one I mentioned when I opened the thread) are true or not

Kimbot

Actually I believe to be in charge of a vehicle you have to have the keys in the ignition so if you are in the drivers seat using your phone and keys are not in the ignition then they cant do anything as you are not driving your car.

dgt

Bpmull wrote: »

Can you still use earphones with the built in mic so you would have your handsfree? Or does it have to be bluetooth ?

To me that's just as dangerous if not worse than holding the phone to the ear

Markcheese

Heard a garda on Matt Cooper last week , manually operating (ie.pressing buttons/screen) a handheld electronic device (phone,handheld sat nav ,tablet and I assume camera,) is now illegal, but not built in devices or Bluetooth headsets as long as you don't have to touch the phone (or whatever)..
Got told off by a Garda a few years ago for using the phone while parked..engine off. Though he was just a nut . But maybe he was just ahead of his time ?
Presume your not supposed to stop on motorway hardshoulder to use phone,? It would get you a ticket in the Uk ..

Pov06

Markcheese wrote: »

Heard a garda on Matt Cooper last week , manually operating (ie.pressing buttons/screen) a handheld electronic device (phone,handheld sat nav ,tablet and I assume camera,) is now illegal, but not built in devices or Bluetooth headsets as long as you don't have to touch the phone (or whatever)..
Got told off by a Garda a few years ago for using the phone while parked..engine off. Though he was just a nut . But maybe he was just ahead of his time ?
Presume your not supposed to stop on motorway hardshoulder to use phone,? It would get you a ticket in the Uk ..

Stopping in the hard shoulder altogether is illegal unless your car has broke down.

IsThisOneFree

Markcheese wrote: »

Heard a garda on Matt Cooper last week , manually operating (ie.pressing buttons/screen) a handheld electronic device (phone,handheld sat nav ,tablet and I assume camera,) is now illegal, but not built in devices or Bluetooth headsets as long as you don't have to touch the phone (or whatever)..

Well now that certainly would make a lot of sense, and would certainly be something I could agree with.

Back to the earlier thing of having the keys in the ignition - wonder how taxi drivers will fare. If I hop into a taxi and give them an address they've never heard of, are they gonna pull over and take out the keys (!!) while they type the address into the GPS ?!

As for using the motorway hard shoulder - yea, I'd have thought that would be equally illegal given that it's intended for emergencies. Although that's just me guessing really

rubberdiddies

it will surely signal the end for Hailo, as taxi drivers have to touch the screen to accept a job. I believe they get only a few seconds to accept a job.

Surely, standalone GPS devices are covered also under this new law as there is usually some level of interaction with them

IsThisOneFree

Good point, hadn't thought of Hailo, or built in GPS. So using built in GPS is fine, but using my "portable" Garmin/TomTom/whatever is not .............

ironclaw

Full details here:

http://dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/roads/english/information-note-road-traffic-act-2006-restriction-use-mobile-phones-regulations-2014./information-note-restriction-use-mobile-phones-regulations-2014-pdf.pdf

And here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf

The regulations make it an offence to send or read a text message from a mobile phone while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle. These regulations apply to mobile phones which are not being held, i.e. to hands-free devices.

‘Text message’ in these regulations includes an SMS or MMS message, or an email.

‘MMS’ means a Multimedia Messaging Service which sends messages that include
multimedia content between mobile or fixed numbers assigned in accordance with national numbering plans.
‘SMS’ means a Short Message Service text message, composed principally of alphabetical or numerical characters, capable of being sent between mobile or fixed numbers assigned in accordance with national numbering plans.

I'm not a solicitor, but 'between mobile or fixed numbers assigned in accordance with national numbering plans' wouldn't cover the likes of iMessage where contacts can be defined by email addresses and not phone numbers.

By my reading, its not an offence to use a GPS or touch the screen for other purposes. In fact, the only offence seems to be messaging (SMS, Text and Email) But I doubt any Garda will listen to you because its frankly impossible to tell from a distance what someone is doing on their phone.

Contrary to some misleading media reports, they do not make it an offence to speak via a hands-free device. Nor do they make it an offence to touch a button on a hand-free device in order to answer a phone call.

Alanstrainor

What about changing tracks on my phone when its connected over bluetooth? That's pretty much my main concern.

ironclaw

Alanstrainor wrote: »

What about changing tracks on my phone when its connected over bluetooth? That's pretty much my main concern.

By my reading, this legislation only covers messaging services. But even then, its very loose and grey.

Its pretty much black and white here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf

A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a
public place—
(a) send a text message, or
(b) read a text message,
from a mobile phone.

Doesn't mention the million other things you can do on a modern smart phone including music and GPS.

Alanstrainor

That's interesting! Very black and white.

I have an app on my phone that auto responds to texts when I receive them while in the car. It's dead handy. You can have it reply with any message you like. Tasker is the app, and I'm running it on Android. It's an app you can do a million things with, but that's just one of mine.

AugustusMinimus

So it is illegal to be in the driver seat of a parked car, with the engine turned off and making a phone call ?

This is crazy stuff if true.

DavyD_83

What about sending a text by dictating it to phone and sending using voice commands?

Also, as said above, would it be ok to send an email as it would not be going to another phone?

corktina

"So it is illegal to be in the driver seat of a parked car, with the engine turned off and making a phone call ?"

.no of course it isn't....it says "driving"

ironclaw

corktina wrote: »

"So it is illegal to be in the driver seat of a parked car, with the engine turned off and making a phone call ?"

.no of course it isn't....it says "driving"

I'm fairly sure you can be done for drink driving in the driver seat of a parked car. Wasn't there a case in (Athlone?) a few years back? Pretty sure they keys don't have to be in the ignition either. I'd say in that case though its Garda discretion. Neatly parked versus pull up anywhere to have a chat. If it went to court I'd say it would be thrown out.

DavyD_83 wrote: »

What about sending a text by dictating it to phone and sending using voice commands?

Also, as said above, would it be ok to send an email as it would not be going to another phone?

Basically, any 'messaging' service you can't use by touching in the phone. Voice commands and dictation are fine. Again, I'm not read in law so thats purely my opinion from reading the SI.

Spook_ie

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm fairly sure you can be done for drink driving in the driver seat of a parked car. Wasn't there a case in (Athlone?) a few years back? Pretty sure they keys don't have to be in the ignition either. I'd say in that case though its Garda discretion. Neatly parked versus pull up anywhere to have a chat. If it went to court I'd say it would be thrown out.



Basically, any 'messaging' service you can't use by touching in the phone. Voice commands and dictation are fine. Again, I'm not read in law so thats purely my opinion from reading the SI.

Would imagine that the charge would have been similar to the UK's Drunk in Charge rather than drink driving. Though a quick search of legislation doesn't show much other than
EDIT
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0050.html

(2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.

From 1961 not sure if there any updates to it

IsThisOneFree

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm fairly sure you can be done for drink driving in the driver seat of a parked car

To be fair, drunk driving is slightly different - sitting into the drivers seat while being over the alcohol limit would likely show an intention to drive while under the influence. Being on a phone while sitting in the drivers seat doesn't quiet show the same intent, as the call can be ended before the driver starts the car. So in the case of being over the limit, the driver cannot "put themselves into a legal state" as it were (without getting out of the car). However, a person on the phone can, just by putting down the phone.

Just my 2 cent :-)

_Kaiser_

I wouldn't worry too much guys..

As usual there'll be a bit of a fuss over the forthcoming bank holiday weekend but after that it'll drop pretty much back to normal - that's how it works in this country.

The only change will be a potential surge in rear-endings as people try to hide the phone under the dash/window line as they text away

Another nonsense, open to interpretation/depends who you get law that won't be enforced anyway!

_Kaiser_

ironclaw wrote: »

By my reading, this legislation only covers messaging services. But even then, its very loose and grey.

Its pretty much black and white here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf



Doesn't mention the million other things you can do on a modern smart phone including music and GPS.

To play along with that.. as it says "while driving". Does that include stopped at a set of lights with the handbrake on? You're not "driving" then. If you have a car with stop/start the engine might not even be running!

No doubt the default answer at the side of the road will be "yes" but again, all vague enough so the usual mood of the Garda nonsense can continue.

Spook_ie

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

To play along with that.. as it says "while driving". Does that include stopped at a set of lights with the handbrake on? You're not "driving" then. If you have a car with stop/start the engine might not even be running!

No doubt the default answer at the side of the road will be "yes" but again, all vague enough so the usual mood of the Garda nonsense can continue.

You'd still be driving because you would ( presumably, though depends on the driver ) still be in the traffic lane. I would have thought it fairly easy to tell between parked and just not paying attention

Spook_ie

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Good point, hadn't thought of Hailo, or built in GPS. So using built in GPS is fine, but using my "portable" Garmin/TomTom/whatever is not .............

Garmin/TomTom/whatever isn't a device linked to a nationally recognised numbering system or to put it simply it's NOT a phone.

That's not to say that you can't still be done for driving without due care or whatever if you are typing an address into it while driving!