New Mobile Phone Laws effective May 1st

Del2005

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much guys..

As usual there'll be a bit of a fuss over the forthcoming bank holiday weekend but after that it'll drop pretty much back to normal - that's how it works in this country.

Another nonsense, open to interpretation/depends who you get law that won't be enforced anyway!

Exactly. We already have laws for texting or updating Facebook etc, driving without due care is one, which aren't used so why will they bother enforcing this one. They don't even bother with the easy not holding a phone law with the amount of people I see using phones and I don't do much mileage.

AlekSmart

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much guys..

As usual there'll be a bit of a fuss over the forthcoming bank holiday weekend but after that it'll drop pretty much back to normal - that's how it works in this country.

The only change will be a potential surge in rear-endings as people try to hide the phone under the dash/window line as they text away

Another nonsense, open to interpretation/depends who you get law that won't be enforced anyway!

I believe ,in keeping with MOST Irish Legislation (apart from Financial Regulation :rolleyes:),that we have spawned a monster here....

Journeyed last night from Dublin to Co Waterford....Incredible number of sudden Stops....diving across two lanes to the hard shoulder as well as anchoring up immediately a phone rang......

This is going to KILL far more innocent motorists pedestrians due to the level of panic/fear of detection amongst Irish Drivers...:eek:

Anybody driving long distances really will have to up their observations levels and drive defensively...for sure !

micks_address

Couple of questions.

1) What if my sat nav is built into the car and i need to use a touchscreen to set?
2) Isnt fiddling with a radio on the car/scrolling through lists of music etc just as dangerous? e.g. my ipod connects to my radio controls, so i can control via the stereo display
3) Drinking coffee/tea from a cup while driving - is that an offence?
4) So if i answer a call by press the 'accept' call on my phone while its in its cradle, and talk via the hands free i would be breaking the law?
5) Is it a 1000 euro on the spot fine or is that maximum fine allowed under tha law?

I have no issue with the crackdown on phones being used while driving. I drive the m50 every day and its amazing how many people i see doing 120 on the motorway while holding their phone, making calls, or actually reading/texting.. and the best yet was a guy on the phone drinking coffee at the same time..

I have an awful habbit when stopped at lights of just checking my phone for new emails/texts.. i guess thats not allowed now? I would just press the power button look for any new notifications on the phone..

No Pants

I don't think it matters what we all think it says. Unless the burden of proof has changed significantly, it's all going to come down to what a Garda believes he saw you doing.

Pov06

micks_address wrote: »

Couple of questions.

1) What if my sat nav is built into the car and i need to use a touchscreen to set?
2) Isnt fiddling with a radio on the car/scrolling through lists of music etc just as dangerous? e.g. my ipod connects to my radio controls, so i can control via the stereo display
3) Drinking coffee/tea from a cup while driving - is that an offence?
4) So if i answer a call by press the 'accept' call on my phone while its in its cradle, and talk via the hands free i would be breaking the law?
5) Is it a 1000 euro on the spot fine or is that maximum fine allowed under tha law?

I have no issue with the crackdown on phones being used while driving. I drive the m50 every day and its amazing how many people i see doing 120 on the motorway while holding their phone, making calls, or actually reading/texting.. and the best yet was a guy on the phone drinking coffee at the same time..

I have an awful habbit when stopped at lights of just checking my phone for new emails/texts.. i guess thats not allowed now? I would just press the power button look for any new notifications on the phone..

I've seen worse to be honest, e.g. a lad on the phone and smoking at the same time driving a car with an L plate, unaccompanied of course

Gazzmonkey

corktina wrote: »

As I understand it, the new law is to stop people using a phone even in a cradle to text or use social media..... you'll be able to use a totally handsfree phone but can't use the keypad whilst driving. It's just bunging up a loophole really, noting to worry about

But it's still OK to poke at our radio or A/C buttons?

Bpmull

dgt wrote: »

To me that's just as dangerous if not worse than holding the phone to the ear

Obviously I mean only put one ear phone in one ear not both. I have a bluetooth kit anyway just have to fix it at the weekend.

Markcheese

Pov06 wrote: »

I've seen worse to be honest, e.g. a lad on the phone and smoking at the same time driving a car with an L plate, unaccompanied of course

I think that guys sister/girlfriend lives near me,
As well as a fag and a phone in hand the seats so far back that she can only just see over the steering wheel ...

Presume there's not really much chance of getting done for touching your touch screen phone once , but it'll be pretty obvious if your fumbling for your phone, trying to open your e-mail and LOL ing on Facebook ... (so while one touch on hailo may be illegal it's unlikely to get you points)

corktina

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

But it's still OK to poke at our radio or A/C buttons?

I don't see the problem there. I can operate all my cars controls without looking or hardly even thinking about it. Texting someone would be a different matter

ironclaw

1) What if my sat nav is built into the car and i need to use a touchscreen to set?

Only applies to mobile phones and further more, only applies to messaging.

2) Isnt fiddling with a radio on the car/scrolling through lists of music etc just as dangerous? e.g. my ipod connects to my radio controls, so i can control via the stereo display

No issue, not covered by the new laws.

3) Drinking coffee/tea from a cup while driving - is that an offence?

Probably if you were making a mess of your driving then its 'without due care and attention' but would depend on the Garda. Its not specifically an offence.

4) So if i answer a call by press the 'accept' call on my phone while its in its cradle, and talk via the hands free i would be breaking the law?

You can touch the phone to accept a call but you must talk handsfree

Its all here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf

Once again, I cannot see this being enforced as its impossible to tell what someone is doing without seeing their screen i.e. The Garda literally has to be on your shoulder.

Del2005

corktina wrote: »

I don't see the problem there. I can operate all my cars controls without looking or hardly even thinking about it. Texting someone would be a different matter

That's you. A lot of people can't find the horn without looking for it.

What isn't clear from this is if you can put a SIM into your car can you now not drive it? As your car is now a phone and you are interacting with it.

simplybam

What's the point of this thread? Use common sense. Don't use your phone to call or text/email while driving. Feel free to use GPS as long as you don't program it while driving. Same goes for music - don't search for songs or do anything that'll distract you while driving (same as with you in-car stereo).

Seriously, why does anyone even need to ask questions like 'ok, I'm not allowed to text but can I send email?' That's absolutely ludicrous! The driving standards in this country are bad enough as they are. Do you really think you're that important that an email, text or phone call can't wait a few minutes until you can safely pull over somewhere legal and do it without endangering innocent people by your reckless behaviour?

IsThisOneFree

simplybam wrote: »

Seriously, why does anyone even need to ask questions like 'ok, I'm not allowed to text but can I send email?'

I may have missed it, but I don't believe anybody asked such a question ??

simplybam wrote: »

What's the point of this thread?

Read the very first post, the point of the thread was clarification around the following:

- My Mum said that she heard on the radio that the use of handsfree kits will now also be illegal. Does anybody know if this is true ? And if so, is it isolated to the handsfree kits that come with mobile phones, or are "plumbed in" hands free kits also be illegal now ?

- I've also heard also that, strictly speaking, using your mobile phone while your car is OFF, but the keys are in the ignition, will also be illegal

With regards to the hands free issue - I heard Conor Faughan from AA on the radio this morning. He again mentioned about the illegality of using hands free kits (and mentioned about phones being in a cradle), but it wasn't clear if the illegality spread to speaking on hands free kits or not, and if so, what was the definition of hands free.

Admittedly you would hope that common sense would prevail, but the whole things still seems vague at best

ironclaw

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

- My Mum said that she heard on the radio that the use of handsfree kits will now also be illegal. Does anybody know if this is true ? And if so, is it isolated to the handsfree kits that come with mobile phones, or are "plumbed in" hands free kits also be illegal now ?

- I've also heard also that, strictly speaking, using your mobile phone while your car is OFF, but the keys are in the ignition, will also be illegal

The only SI's that I can see this year in relation to mobile phones is this:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf

Which is explained here:

http://dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/roads/english/information-note-road-traffic-act-2006-restriction-use-mobile-phones-regulations-2014./information-note-restriction-use-mobile-phones-regulations-2014-pdf.pdf

So basically, anything to do with a text, MMS or email is illegal. However, I believe there are serious loopholes to this. For instance, and I'm not read in law, an fb message would not fall under the defintion of SMS, MMS or email. Nor would an iMessage being sent between contacts defined by email not phone number.

I really wish the media would add this to all reports:

Contrary to some misleading media reports, they do not make it an offence to speak via a hands-free device. Nor do they make it an offence to touch a button on a hand-free device in order to answer a phone call.

IsThisOneFree

Yup, got that. Was just re-posting the original questions in answer to simplybam's post

simplybam

DavyD_83 wrote: »

What about sending a text by dictating it to phone and sending using voice commands?

Also, as said above, would it be ok to send an email as it would not be going to another phone?

^ Yes, this question was asked, although indirectly, really.

And to be honest, I wish the gards would actually start enforcing these laws more. There's not a single day going by when I don't see someone talking on the phone - or even worse, texting away like there's no tomorrow. And as far as I am concerned, those drivers should get a min. 12 month ban - no questions asked!

_Kaiser_

ironclaw wrote: »

I really wish the media would add this to all reports:

I really wish our Keystone Cops brigade would do their jobs and enforce ALL the Rules of the Road rather than revenue exercises like motorway speed traps or being more concerned about the state of the tax disc on a car rather than its condition/behaviour of the driver (broken lights or no lights, bald tyres, no signalling, reckless manoeuvres etc)

Still, what can we expect from a force that treats its own like lepers for calling out malpractice, routinely violates the same Rules without cause (and I don't accept the "cause we can" excuse - in fact as far as I remember a statement was issued previously that they SHOULD adhere to the same rules unless responding to a call/emergency), and which has proven time and again to be incompetent, unprofessional and unaccountable.

This is all covered under existing legislation. No need for yet more vague confusing nonsense added to the statute books.

ironclaw

simplybam wrote: »

And to be honest, I wish the gards would actually start enforcing these laws more. There's not a single day going by when I don't see someone talking on the phone - or even worse, texting away like there's no tomorrow. And as far as I am concerned, those drivers should get a min. 12 month ban - no questions asked!

The problem with these laws, as I see it, is that its completely unenforceable. How can a Garda tell what you are doing on your phone? Can you tell what someone on a bus say 2 seats in front of you is doing? I can't. So how can a Garda see what I'm doing on my phone in a moving car?

Unless there is another SI amendment I haven't seen, you are still perfectly entitled to touch your phone (Provided its cradled and you are not supporting it with your body) as long as its not for text / MMS or email messaging purposes.

corktina

Would it not just be easier to park up rather than using voice commands and emails or fb messages etc. A damn sight safer too and within the spirit of the Law

ironclaw

corktina wrote: »

Would it not just be easier to park up rather than using voice commands and emails or fb messages etc. A damn sight safer too and within the spirit of the Law

Totally agree. I don't use my phone at all while driving save for perhaps rerouting or tapping a quick route change. Honestly, they should have banned phone usage outright or not bothered at all in my eyes.

simplybam

ironclaw wrote: »

The problem with these laws, as I see it, is that its completely unenforceable. How can a Garda tell what you are doing on your phone? Can you tell what someone on a bus say 2 seats in front of you is doing? I can't. So how can a Garda see what I'm doing on my phone in a moving car?

Unless there is another SI amendment I haven't seen, you are still perfectly entitled to touch your phone (Provided its cradled and you are not supporting it with your body) as long as its not for text / MMS or email messaging purposes.

How about they just look at your phone? Call and text history as well as email are all date stamped, so it's pretty easy to tell if you just made a call/ sent a text, etc.

_Kaiser_

ironclaw wrote: »

Totally agree. I don't use my phone at all while driving save for perhaps rerouting or tapping a quick route change. Honestly, they should have banned phone usage outright or not bothered at all in my eyes.

Easier to be seen to be doing something (usually just adding to the confusion as is the case here) then ACTUALLY doing something!

ironclaw

simplybam wrote: »

How about they just look at your phone? Call and text history as well as email are all date stamped, so it's pretty easy to tell if you just made a call/ sent a text, etc.

If my phone has a pass lock, I don't have to provide it as that could be incriminating myself. You have the right to remain silent. Not being overly dramatic but you do have a right to silence. The onus is on them to prove you are guiltly.

simplybam

ironclaw wrote: »

If my phone has a pass lock, I don't have to provide it as that could be incriminating myself. You have the right to remain silent. Not being overly dramatic but you do have a right to silence. The onus is on them to prove you are guiltly.

So they'll get the info from your network operator when they meet you again in court. Doh

ironclaw

simplybam wrote: »

So they'll get the info from your network operator when they meet you again in court. Doh

Prove it wasn't an automated response from my phone. Prove beyond all reasonable doubt it was my phone, my sim card and in that location at that time. Anyway, a Garda isn't going to go to that extent to prosecute you. The cost of pursing such a case would be astronomical. You'll just be done under 'without due care and attention' and that will be it.

I know I'm being ridiculous but a clever barrister could create reasonable doubt very, very quickly. In fact we need more of it as frankly its a 'he said, I said, so he's guilty' luddite country we're running here. I'd love to talk to someone more legally educated that myself as I believe this new law has serious loop holes.

_Kaiser_

ironclaw wrote: »

Prove it wasn't an automated response from my phone. Prove beyond all reasonable doubt it was my phone, my sim card and in that location at that time. Anyway, a Garda isn't going to go to that extent to prosecute you. The cost of pursing such a case would be astronomical. You'll just be done under 'without due care and attention' and that will be it.

I know I'm being ridiculous but a clever barrister could create reasonable doubt very, very quickly. In fact we need more of it as frankly its a 'he said, I said, so he's guilty' luddite country we're running here. I'd love to talk to someone more legally educated that myself as I believe this new law has serious loop holes.

The problem you have is that prosecutions can be made and verdicts given based on nothing more than a Garda's "word"

The main issue with that is it's entirely based on opinion with no actual FACTS or EVIDENCE to support it.

However here in Ireland a Garda's opinion is seen as enough so people will no doubt be done for playing with the radio or aircon just because it happens to be beside the phone :rolleyes:

Del2005

ironclaw wrote: »

Prove it wasn't an automated response from my phone. Prove beyond all reasonable doubt it was my phone, my sim card and in that location at that time. Anyway, a Garda isn't going to go to that extent to prosecute you. The cost of pursing such a case would be astronomical. You'll just be done under 'without due care and attention' and that will be it.

I know I'm being ridiculous but a clever barrister could create reasonable doubt very, very quickly. In fact we need more of it as frankly its a 'he said, I said, so he's guilty' luddite country we're running here. I'd love to talk to someone more legally educated that myself as I believe this new law has serious loop holes.

Motoring isn't a right it's a privilege, the EU court has ruled on this, so the burden of proof is less, it's only suspected criminals who are considered innocent, and more for the accused to prove that they are innocent than the prosecution to prove guilt.

The offence as outlined is of accessing information on a device, but the statue is different, so phone records won't help it'll be down to your word against a Garda in court.

jack presley

All the media reports include 'accessing information' but is it true that this isn't actually in the legislation and they are wrong in reporting this?

expectationlost

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

So it is illegal to be in the driver seat of a parked car, with the engine turned off and making a phone call ?

This is crazy stuff if true.

no its not true

expectationlost

micks_address wrote: »

Couple of questions.

1) What if my sat nav is built into the car and i need to use a touchscreen to set?
2) Isnt fiddling with a radio on the car/scrolling through lists of music etc just as dangerous? e.g. my ipod connects to my radio controls, so i can control via the stereo display
3) Drinking coffee/tea from a cup while driving - is that an offence?
4) So if i answer a call by press the 'accept' call on my phone while its in its cradle, and talk via the hands free i would be breaking the law?
5) Is it a 1000 euro on the spot fine or is that maximum fine allowed under tha law?

1 set your satnav before you start the car.
2 yes it can be distracting
3 that could be careless driving
4 the regulations do not make it an offence to touch a button on a hand-free device in order to answer a phone call.
http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/features/Roads/English/Information%20Note%3A%20Road%20Traffic%20Act%202006%20%28Restriction%20on%20Use%20of%20Mobile%20Phones%29%20Regulations%202014./Information%20Note%20on%20Restriction%20on%20Use%20of%20Mobile%20Phones%20Regulations%202014%20pdf.pdf

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