Breaking News: John O'Donovan Injured During Peaceful Protest Mod Warning #146

bumper234

brooke 2 wrote: »

It is a cod. Is it not true that if we do not use enough water the
charges will go up?

So much for their commitment to conservation. Anyone who believes their lies deserves to be scammed

Would love to see the evidence for this please.

brooke 2

bladebrew wrote: »

That's what I'm trying to say (badly) it's just tax for the government,
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/29-irish-water-workers-on-salaries-over-100000-620644.html
29 of their staff on €100k a year! So they need millions a year just to pay those staff!
And they are going around fitting meters while they argue about how much people will be charged, its nothing to do with saving water.

Absolutely NOTHING to do with saving water.

brooke 2

bumper234 wrote: »

Would love to see the evidence for this please.

It is a question. I recollect hearing/reading about it. Will seek it out.

bumper234

brooke 2 wrote: »

It is a question. I recollect hearing/reading about it. Will seek it out.

Please do


I'll wait here with bated breath.

HeidiHeidi

bumper234 wrote: »

Please do


I'll wait here with bated breath.

I recall hearing that sent up as a flyer a while back as well. There was murder about it.

Was more along the lines of if not enough revenue was raised (ie conservation efforts were too successful) then charges/rates would be increased.

bumper234

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I recall hearing that sent up as a flyer a while back as well. There was murder about it.

Was more along the lines of if not enough revenue was raised (ie conservation efforts were too successful) then charges/rates would be increased.

It was in a flyer?

*shakes head*

brooke 2

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I recall hearing that sent up as a flyer a while back as well. There was murder about it.

Was more along the lines of if not enough revenue was raised (ie conservation efforts were too successful) then charges/rates would be increased.

Thank you, HeidiHeidi! I knew I had heard it. It was all over the airwaves at the time. Put a lie to the claim that IW was all about
conserving water!!

HeidiHeidi

bumper234 wrote: »

It was in a flyer?

*shakes head*

As a flyer, not in a flyer.

I suspect they put out there to gauge reaction. It wasn't good (to put it mildly). Haven't heard it mentioned since funnily enough!

TheChizler

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

As a flyer, not in a flyer.

I suspect they put out there to gauge reaction. It wasn't good (to put it mildly). Haven't heard it mentioned since funnily enough!

Who made the flyer?

Xantia

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-water-splash-out-100-3006140


Mr Tierney said he could still not tell householders how much they would be paying in charges.

But it did emerge that Irish Water could be given permission to hike the price of water if demand is lower than expected.

The Commission for Energy Regulation also warned that the water charge may rise in times of drought or other shortages.

Irish Water will already have the power to restrict the flow of water to those who refuse to pay, which will be important in terms of bill collection.

“We want people to pay, to understand that those who try not to pay are being followed up to the maximum extent possible because that’s how we keep the charge low overall.”

Nonoperational

Xantia wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-water-splash-out-100-3006140


Mr Tierney said he could still not tell householders how much they would be paying in charges.

But it did emerge that Irish Water could be given permission to hike the price of water if demand is lower than expected.

The Commission for Energy Regulation also warned that the water charge may rise in times of drought or other shortages.

Irish Water will already have the power to restrict the flow of water to those who refuse to pay, which will be important in terms of bill collection.

“We want people to pay, to understand that those who try not to pay are being followed up to the maximum extent possible because that’s how we keep the charge low overall.”

Seems pretty sensible.

evilivor

Xantia wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-water-splash-out-100-3006140


Mr Tierney said he could still not tell householders how much they would be paying in charges.

But it did emerge that Irish Water could be given permission to hike the price of water if demand is lower than expected.

The Commission for Energy Regulation also warned that the water charge may rise in times of drought or other shortages.

Irish Water will already have the power to restrict the flow of water to those who refuse to pay, which will be important in terms of bill collection.

“We want people to pay, to understand that those who try not to pay are being followed up to the maximum extent possible because that’s how we keep the charge low overall.”

That news story is almost four months out of date. A hell of a lot has changed since then, even in the last fortnight. Now it's likely the standing charge will be removed. This was to apply to all households regardless of usage and other allowances.

The cost of water will increase per litre further encouraging lower consumption.

Xantia

No, not really sensible when you read even the title of the article

Irish Water has spent €100 million since it was set up in 2013 with an incredible €50 million splashed on consultants.

Now what would have been sensible would have been to put that money into the infrastructure as it stands.

Xantia

evilivor wrote: »

That news story is almost four months out of date. A hell of a lot has changed since then, even in the last fortnight. Now it's likely the standing charge will be removed. This was to apply to all households regardless of usage and other allowances.

The cost of water will increase per litre further encouraging lower consumption.

Yes I realise it's dated but a previous poster mentioned that there was nothing about charges increasing.

However, it is very unlikely that any charges will be decided on until after the local/euro elections which are coming up shortly.

Eurovisionmad

Xantia wrote: »

No, not really sensible when you read even the title of the article

Irish Water has spent €100 million since it was set up in 2013 with an incredible €50 million splashed on consultants.

Now what would have been sensible would have been to put that money into the infrastructure as it stands.

Keeping water a responsibility of councils meant massive duplication of resources, so much so that there's double the required workers than is needed.

It has to be said both conformations are well able to waste money and avoid spending it on infrastructure, if water was kept as it was there's zero guarantee that €50m would've been well invested in the system.

evilivor

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

Keeping water a responsibility of councils meant massive duplication of resources, so much so that there's double the required workers than is needed.

It has to be said both conformations are well able to waste money and avoid spending it on infrastructure, if water was kept as it was there's zero guarantee that €50m would've been well invested in the system.

34 local authorities controlling water in a tiny country - it was ludicrous.

Xantia

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

It has to be said both conformations are well able to waste money and avoid spending it on infrastructure, if water was kept as it was there's zero guarantee that €50m would've been well invested in the system.

Yes you are correct there.

evilivor

Xantia wrote: »

Yes I realise it's dated but a previous poster mentioned that there was nothing about charges increasing.

However, it is very unlikely that any charges will be decided on until after the local/euro elections which are coming up shortly.

It is hoped an overall agreement on pricing can be reached before next week's Cabinet meeting and will be announced well in advance of the elections.

Xantia

evilivor wrote: »

It is hoped an overall agreement on pricing can be reached before next week's Cabinet meeting and will be announced well in advance of the elections.

mikeym

Xantia wrote: »

Wont be voting for Labour and Fine gael anyway in the upcoming elections.

Although the water charges are inevitable we all have to stomach it

pwurple

mikeym wrote: »

Wont be voting for Labour and Fine gael anyway in the upcoming elections.

Although the water charges are inevitable we all have to stomach it

The introduction of water charges were signed up to by FF with europe in the previous government.

ABajaninCork

pwurple wrote: »

The introduction of water charges were signed up to by FF with europe in the previous government.

A point missed by a lot of people on this thread. It was also an IMF condition of the bailout.

rob316

ABajaninCork wrote: »

A point missed by a lot of people on this thread. It was also an IMF condition of the bailout.

Something we the people never agreed to it was forced on us same as the IMF bailout was but that argument is for another day

The real issue here is now the current government and how they are implementing the water charges.
We are letting these meters be installed on our homes with no idea of the cost.
We are been mugged again simple as.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Something we the people never agreed to it was forced on us same as the IMF bailout was but that argument is for another day

The real issue here is now the current government and how they are implementing the water charges.
We are letting these meters be installed on our homes with no idea of the cost.
We are been mugged again simple as.

The current Government are just carrying out work put in motion by the previous regime. We need to broaden the tax base and have every citizen shoulder the burden. I do not expect to pay for my neighbours lifestyle, nor would I expect him to pay for mine. Services have to be paid for, why not by the people using them?

TOMO666

Deleted User wrote: »

The current Government are just carrying out work put in motion by the previous regime. We need to broaden the tax base and have every citizen shoulder the burden. I do not expect to pay for my neighbours lifestyle, nor would I expect him to pay for mine. Services have to be paid for, why not by the people using them?

Broaden the TAX base, why??? to pay for the bank bail out... Wake up. Yes FF signed us up to it, & lots more. Thats why we voted them out in mass. & People are forgetting what they done due to the false promises of FG & Labour. FG & Labour promised us a different way & just rammed it down us.
It's time we all stood up & were counted. Stop them now or forever take it up the Asssssssss off the main stream parties. It's up to the people to make a choice.

TOMO666

TOMO666 wrote: »

Broaden the TAX base, why??? to pay for the bank bail out... Wake up. Yes FF signed us up to it, & lots more. Thats why we voted them out in mass. & People are forgetting what they done due to the false promises of FG & Labour. FG & Labour promised us a different way & just rammed it down us.
It's time we all stood up & were counted. Stop them now or forever take it up the Asssssssss off the main stream parties. It's up to the people to make a choice.

I'm wide awake, thank you. You would prefer we continued borrowing more than we take in in order to keep the country afloat? How very sensible. People can make a choice in the upcoming local elections and again when the next General Election takes place. Until then, rather than take it up the Asssssssss, why not come up with crediable, workable alternatives and stand for election yourself and let the people decide.

Eurovisionmad

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm wide awake, thank you. You would prefer we continued borrowing more than we take in in order to keep the country afloat? How very sensible. People can make a choice in the upcoming local elections and again when the next General Election takes place. Until then, rather than take it up the Asssssssss, why not come up with crediable, workable alternatives and stand for election yourself and let the people decide.

Exactly, while I didn't vote for FG or Labour, the majority did and so you're going to have to suck it up until the next election as that's how democracy works!

Nonoperational

TOMO666 wrote: »

Broaden the TAX base, why??? to pay for the bank bail out... Wake up. Yes FF signed us up to it, & lots more. Thats why we voted them out in mass. & People are forgetting what they done due to the false promises of FG & Labour. FG & Labour promised us a different way & just rammed it down us.
It's time we all stood up & were counted. Stop them now or forever take it up the Asssssssss off the main stream parties. It's up to the people to make a choice.

No, to have a country that has a balanced budget and can withstand poor performance in an area of the economy without having to be bailed out by outside agencies.

What would you like people to wake up to? Maybe you should wake up to the bull**** alternative SF and others are putting out that we can all have our cake and eat it, and the mysterious "well off" will finance it all. What a joke. There are quite a few households earning over €100k and they have, and continue to, work long and hard to have got to that position. There is nothing at all wrong with that. I'd much rather have a country full of them than people like John O'Donovan who contribute nothing but rhetoric and perpetuate the illusion that we can live in a socialist utopia that's gobbled up by people no questions asked.

Eurovisionmad

Wouldn't today, a bank-holiday and everyone's off work be the perfect day to stage some sort of protest against water charges? But alas we won't hear a peep from them as it's raining! The weather is supposed to pick up Friday though, I'll alert CUH A&E to prepare themselves for a possible urgent case of hangnail!

strandsman

this time next year you'll all be paying water charges and there wont be a peep out of anyone, Same noise out of people when the property tax was brought in, The amount of people who were saying " i'm not paying it" and you know what they all payed up. I have my own water supply which costs money, why should I pay for your water too. Oh and by the way those people who are protesting in togher, By the looks of most of them they'll qualify for free water for life on the SW...:mad:

TOMO666

This is where your water charges are going

Hubert Kearns was Sligo County Manager for 17 years and when he retired in 2013 he received a lump sum of 270,000 and a pension of 68,000 per year. His time as Sligo manager was controversial and he left behind a County debt of 80 million. "It's not the end of the world, nobody died," he said about the council's financial woes. At one stage he refused to attend council meetings in a dispute with an independent Councillor and spent more than €50,000 council money hiring HR consultant Declan Naughton to monitor meetings. Asked to comment on reports that his own pay as Sligo Manager, at €136,000, was €30,000 more than that of the Spanish prime minister, Mr Kearns said his salary was fixed by Government. “I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little.”
So after retiring from Sligo he has his pockets full, thanks to the taxpayer - that's YOU and ME, So, has Mr Kearns taken up fishing? No, Hubert has apparently found gainful employment with Irish Water.

Irish Water, home to retired Council managers, headed up by retired Dublin Manager John Tierney (salary 200,000 Eur). But apparently Irish Water managers (like Hubert?) would have to get by on a measly 100,000. Hopefully though they might be able to survive once the expenses and free cars are factored in.
So you can see good people why it's going to take 20 years to fix all those rusty old water pipes!
Photo: Hubert Kearns was Sligo County Manager for 17 years and when he retired in 2013 he received a lump sum of 270,000 and a pension of 68,000 per year. His time as Sligo manager was controversial and he left behind a County debt of 80 million. "It's not the end of the world, nobody died," he said about the council's financial woes. At one stage he refused to attend council meetings in a dispute with an independent Councillor and spent more than €50,000 council money hiring HR consultant Declan Naughton to monitor meetings. Asked to comment on reports that his own pay as Sligo Manager, at €136,000, was €30,000 more than that of the Spanish prime minister, Mr Kearns said his salary was fixed by Government. “I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little.”
So after retiring from Sligo he has his pockets full, thanks to the taxpayer - that's YOU and ME, So, has Mr Kearns taken up fishing? No, Hubert has apparently found gainful employment with Irish Water.

Irish Water, home to retired Council managers, headed up by retired Dublin Manager John Tierney (salary 200,000 Eur). But apparently Irish Water managers (like Hubert?) would have to get by on a measly 100,000. Hopefully though they might be able to survive once the expenses and free cars are factored in.
So you can see good people why it's going to take 20 years to fix all those rusty old water pipes!

TOMO666

& if we took the €100 million we put into Irish water, €86 million on consultancy fees €20,000 on a new logo "more Jobs for the boys" fixed all the leaking water pipes, "we are loosing over 40% of what we produce" By the way I also think this would fix many of the pot holes out there, as with leaking pipes underground eroding the foundations thus causing major pot hole problems all over the country. We would create a shed load of jobs everywhere. fix a lot of issues & create employment going towards balancing budgets, more people working off of the dole etc.

& who has Irish Water employed to manage the water works for the next 12 years, the local councils who are currently doing the job & the €100 million wasted as none of that is going to be used to fix the leaking pipes.

Come on I'm all for balanced budgets & for people to earn as much as they can, but I'm not for our government giving away all our assist & creating their own clicks & making all the same mistakes that got us here in the first place.

Rant over

strandsman

TOMO666 wrote: »

& if we took the €100 million we put into Irish water, €86 million on consultancy fees €20,000 on a new logo "more Jobs for the boys" fixed all the leaking water pipes, "we are loosing over 40% of what we produce" By the way I also think this would fix many of the pot holes out there, as with leaking pipes underground eroding the foundations thus causing major pot hole problems all over the country. We would create a shed load of jobs everywhere. fix a lot of issues & create employment going towards balancing budgets, more people working off of the dole etc.

& who has Irish Water employed to manage the water works for the next 12 years, the local councils who are currently doing the job & the €100 million wasted as none of that is going to be used to fix the leaking pipes.

Come on I'm all for balanced budgets & for people to earn as much as they can, but I'm not for our government giving away all our assist & creating their own clicks & making all the same mistakes that got us here in the first place.

Rant over

so what are YOU going to do about all this?

bumper234

strandsman wrote: »

so what are YOU going to do about all this?

Probably post another long winded rant!



Thanks :mad:

strandsman

bumper234 wrote: »

Probably post another long winded rant!



Thanks :mad:

yep, no point in saying what we all know and suspect, Do something.....

TOMO666

I'm trying to put true information out there so people can challenge whats happening. We don't have to accept every thing the government decides. Look at what FF did with the e-voting machines, €51 million and another €4 million storage fees, again with their own storing them.
When the over 70's stood up to FF over the medical cards they backed, change can happen, it's about people standing together for whats right.

Do you think water meters are right???

Do you not think we are already paying for it in our taxes???

bumper234

TOMO666 wrote: »

I'm trying to put true information out there so people can challenge whats happening. We don't have to accept every thing the government decides. Look at what FF did with the e-voting machines, €51 million and another €4 million storage fees, again with their own storing them.
When the over 70's stood up to FF over the medical cards they backed, change can happen, it's about people standing together for whats right.

Do you think water meters are right???

Do you not think we are already paying for it in our taxes???

Ok

So as asked already

What will YOU do about it?

HeidiHeidi

We are (after a fashion), but it all comes back at the end of the day to if we don't have a water tax, we'll have to have a something-else tax.

We're in deficit, we're spending more than we're taking in, so more money has to be raised.

I have no objection in principle to a water tax (or any other service tax based on the user paying proportionally) - I do indeed have an objection to the seemingly endless jobs-for-the-boys system and flagrant waste of the money raised by these taxes - but protesting about the tax (and then suing the council when you fall over) isn't going to do anything for that. We're up to our necks in debt as a country, and more revenue needs to be raised.

What would you propose if we did manage to overturn the water tax in the morning?

TOMO666

Honest I do believe if we were to engage in fixing the 40% of leaking water pipes under the ground, this would create a load of jobs in the local community. Engineers, road maintenance, pipe fitters, general op's. etc etc. This would have the knock on effect of creating jobs in the local community, shops, restaurants, pub's etc. This will take people off the dole and reduce that bill. The extra jobs will create a lot more taxes etc etc etc.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

HeidiHeidi

TOMO666 wrote: »

Honest I do believe if we were to engage in fixing the 40% of leaking water pipes under the ground, this would create a load of jobs in the local community. Engineers, road maintenance, pipe fitters, general op's. etc etc. This would have the knock on effect of creating jobs in the local community, shops, restaurants, pub's etc. This will take people off the dole and reduce that bill. The extra jobs will create a lot more taxes etc etc etc.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

There's a bit of chicken and egg to that though - where do you get the money to pay for those all those jobs to start off - borrow it? On top of all the other money we're already borrowing just to keep the lights on?

More tax has to be raised one way or t'other, if it's not on water it'll be on something else.

Now if someone could figure out how to make the powers that be address the appalling waste of tax revenue that IS raised, I'd be very interested.

strandsman

TOMO666 wrote: »

Honest I do believe if we were to engage in fixing the 40% of leaking water pipes under the ground, this would create a load of jobs in the local community. Engineers, road maintenance, pipe fitters, general op's. etc etc. This would have the knock on effect of creating jobs in the local community, shops, restaurants, pub's etc. This will take people off the dole and reduce that bill. The extra jobs will create a lot more taxes etc etc etc.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

if you fix a leaking pipe then it's one less pipe to fix, so eventually all leaks will be fixed so what do you do with all the people employed to fix these??and who will pay all these salaries, you'll be on here next year complaining about all the people paid to do nothing, As I asked earlier what are you going to do about the water charge, besides being a key board warrior on a wet day. why dont you propose to advise people on how to avoid a large water bills by rain water harvesting etc.

TOMO666

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

There's a bit of chicken and egg to that though - where do you get the money to pay for those all those jobs to start off - borrow it? On top of all the other money we're already borrowing just to keep the lights on?

More tax has to be raised one way or t'other, if it's not on water it'll be on something else.

Now if someone could figure out how to make the powers that be address the appalling waste of tax revenue that IS raised, I'd be very interested.

What I'm suggesting is by creating the jobs in the first place, we take in more taxes from people paying PRSI etc & we cut of social welfare bill thus paying for it self & I feel thats where the €100 million should have been invested.

TOMO666

strandsman wrote: »

if you fix a leaking pipe then it's one less pipe to fix, so eventually all leaks will be fixed so what do you do with all the people employed to fix these??and who will pay all these salaries, you'll be on here next year complaining about all the people paid to do nothing, As I asked earlier what are you going to do about the water charge, besides being a key board warrior on a wet day. why dont you propose to advise people on how to avoid a large water bills by rain water harvesting etc.

My view is if people are given contract to fix road, pipes etc, & employment is increased in the local communities they people have more disposable income. They will spend that on possible home improvements etc keeping the money & job flowing.

As for what am I doing about it, I'm putting my view out there, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?

TOMO666

TOMO666 wrote: »

I'm trying to put true information out there so people can challenge whats happening. We don't have to accept every thing the government decides. Look at what FF did with the e-voting machines, €51 million and another €4 million storage fees, again with their own storing them.
When the over 70's stood up to FF over the medical cards they backed, change can happen, it's about people standing together for whats right.

Do you think water meters are right???

Do you not think we are already paying for it in our taxes???

Change happened alright. Free Medical Cards for over 70's were scrapped. New limits were brought in and most have now been assessed. They have lost their Electricity and phone units. Fuel allowance has been cut by a month.
Life isn't perfect under FG/Labour, but they are taking the tough decisions needed. Admittedly they often go about it ham fisted, but things are moving in the right direction. We cannot keep spending more than is in the coffers.

strandsman

TOMO666 wrote: »

My view is if people are given contract to fix road, pipes etc, & employment is increased in the local communities they people have more disposable income. They will spend that on possible home improvements etc keeping the money & job flowing.

As for what am I doing about it, I'm putting my view out there, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?

Me? nothing.. I have my own water supply.:D

strandsman

Deleted User wrote: »

Change happened alright. Free Medical Cards for over 70's were scrapped. New limits were brought in and most have now been assessed. They have lost their Electricity and phone units. Fuel allowance has been cut by a month.
Life isn't perfect under FG/Labour, but they are taking the tough decisions needed. Admittedly they often go about it ham fisted, but things are moving in the right direction. We cannot keep spending more than is in the coffers.

I agree.... people think they deserve everything for nothing,you pay your ESB dont you tommo? and I bet (like us all) you waste that too by leaving lights on etc, do you think you should get free electricity?do you pay for your refuse collection? Do you pay your motor tax? If you don't like what is done in this country then go somewhere else, You'll soon find out what people in other countries pay for and it'll be no less than here.

TOMO666

strandsman wrote: »

I agree.... people think they deserve everything for nothing,you pay your ESB dont you tommo? and I bet (like us all) you waste that too by leaving lights on etc, do you think you should get free electricity?do you pay for your refuse collection? Do you pay your motor tax? If you don't like what is done in this country then go somewhere else, You'll soon find out what people in other countries pay for and it'll be no less than here.

Yes I pay my bills, but my argument is we are paying for our water through our taxes. Thats what I'm saying & if we keep paying more & more increased charges Where & when does it stop?

What are we paying out taxes for?

strandsman

TOMO666 wrote: »

Yes I pay my bills, but my argument is we are paying for our water through our taxes. Thats what I'm saying & if we keep paying more & more increased charges Where & when does it stop?

What are we paying out taxes for?

i'm paying for your water also through my taxes and that's fair?, what about commercial water rates? those business owners pay tax and also pay for water, why should you get an unlimited supply of water? you say you pay your bills, well you'll have one more coming in the door soon, I'll guarantee you'll use less water because of it and in a years time it'll be just another bill.... you should be aiming your fire at people who wont be paying for water because of exemptions through SW and such like. no one in this country is entitled to free water so all should pay something and that'll bring down the cost for everyone.

Red Nissan

strandsman wrote: »

I'll guarantee you'll use less water because of it and in a years time it'll be just another bill.... .

One cannot make such a statement. The whole water bill has not been made public yet, so the unemployed as example might be exempt and council tenants may get a maximum payment regardless of metered water.

And then there is always the social welfare who will almost certainly be writing cheques to pay water bills.

Despite a charge, it will will be felt the most by the middle middle class, the rest will have allowances or are wealthy enough not to be bothered at all.

TheChizler

TOMO666 wrote: »

What I'm suggesting is by creating the jobs in the first place, we take in more taxes from people paying PRSI etc & we cut of social welfare bill thus paying for it self & I feel thats where the €100 million should have been invested.

How do you feel about perpetual motion and 'over-unity' machines?