breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

WilyCoyote

ryan101 wrote: »

no, just the IRA being the cowardly terrorists that they are, blowing up kids out shopping and pregnant women.

Getting a bit emotional there. I would not link the word cowardly with the IRA. Or any guerrilla outfit for that matter. Because they are always fighting against a better equipped/trained army.
But if you so wish ....... that's your prerogative.

twowheelsgood

umop.episdn wrote: »

Ah! I understand. It's the cops fault that the ira blew people up!

Next he'll be blaming the bloody Sunday victims for not running away quickly enough. :rolleyes:

RandomName2

Seaneh wrote: »

They post Karl replied to states that "they killed fat more civilians than they did military personal".

From your own stats, that is plainly wrong.

wrong, wrong, wrong, you're wrong, etc.

Hmmm... fat civilians.

In all seriousness if you think that 363 (without breakdown of civilian killing) is far greater than 868 then I don't really think much hope for you. Either lacking basic maths, or 2 + 2 = 5

Besides which, why do all the people here giving the IRA a free pass think that people who call out the IRA for what they were somehow feel that the BA's behaviour was anything short of terrible?

JohnInDublin59

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Coded bomb warnings were issued. The police were more interested in looking through the upper levels of The Rotunda building and extremely slow in clearing a pretty average size basement pub (Tavern In The Town) in New St when they bombs went off.
Just think. If you get a coded bomb warning (ie one that has a pre-ordained name attached) .......... the practice would be to get all people away from the area mentioned. No?

According to Wiki – ‘Birmingham pub bombing’

‘At 20:11 a man with an Irish accent telephoned the Post newspaper and said: "There is a bomb planted in the Rotunda and there is a bomb in New Street at the tax office".[7] A telephoned warning was also sent to the Birmingham Evening Mail newspaper giving an IRA code name and warning of a bomb in the Rotunda.[8] [9] The Rotunda was a 25-storey office block that housed the "Mulberry Bush" pub on its lower two floors.[10] The police started to check the upper floors of the Rotunda but failed to clear the crowded pub at street level. Six minutes after the warning, at 20:17, the bomb exploded inside a duffel bag, devastating the pub’

So, the police didn’t clear the building in 6 minutes. Consequently in Shinner-World, it’s all the fault of the nasty police, who just wanted to make the poor innocent Provos look bad, and not the Provos who planted bombs in crowded pubs.

I think the Omagh bombers tried a similar excuse – it’s a fairly standard Provo one - and it was generally treated with appropriate contempt.

WilyCoyote

umop.episdn wrote: »

Ah! I understand. It's the cops fault that the ira blew people up!

No. It's the cops' fault that people were killed and injured there. After all, a warning was given. The Police Station wasn't too far away. The IRA tactic was to create havoc in the business community and thereby cause some serious questioning in business/political circles about the British role in Ireland.
I realise you and your ilk would love to blame the IRA for every killing ....... but the reality is, if Britain had kept their greedy paws out of Ireland ...... this and every killing of the Troubles would not have taken place.
But then how would you get rid of all that bile?

bumper234

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Getting a bit emotional there. I would not link the word cowardly with the IRA. Or any guerrilla outfit for that matter. Because they are always fighting against a better equipped/trained army.
But if you so wish ....... that's your prerogative.

yeah


takes a real brave special person to plant bombs in the middle of a busy shopping district.

Seaneh

RandomName2 wrote: »

Hmmm... fat civilians.

In all seriousness if you think that 363 (without breakdown of civilian killing) is far greater than 868 then I don't really think much hope for you. Either lacking basic maths, or 2 + 2 = 5

Besides which, why do all the people here giving the IRA a free pass think that people who call out the IRA for what they were somehow feel that the BA's behaviour was anything short of terrible?

What are you talking about?

The claim was "They (the PIRA) killed far more civilians than they (the PIRA) did military personal".

That is plainly false and fantasy, and no attempt at linguistic or logical acrobatics will change that.

ryan101

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Getting a bit emotional there. I would not link the word cowardly with the IRA. Or any guerrilla outfit for that matter. Because they are always fighting against a better equipped/trained army.
But if you so wish ....... that's your prerogative.

Yep those kids out shopping and pregnant mothers, they were so well armed and better equipped and trained.
Brave men indeed. Brave men. Pot bellies and balaclavas. So brave so they were.

Karl Stein

ryan101 wrote: »

Terrorists deliberately target civilans that's what terrorism is

The vast majority of PIRA killings were members of the security forces (77%).

Unlike Loyalists*, whose MO was the sectarian murder of Catholic civilians, the PIRA primarily went after the apparatus of the state.


*Despite being fed intelligence Loyalist killings of Republicans numbered only 4%, the other 96% were primarily innocent unarmed Catholic civilians.

ryan101

Karl Stein wrote: »

the PIRA primarily went after the apparatus of the state.

aka kids and mothers out shopping

WilyCoyote

I thought this thread was about the arrest of Gerry Adams?
But is dragged off topic by the British Army/all things British lovers!
I'll wait and see what the DPP has to say.

Karl Stein

Anti-Republicans and their poor reading comprehension and bad arithmetic.

Bless.

end of the road

bumper234 wrote: »

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

you can't get out of it now you have admitted it

Happyman42

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Certainly those at the receiving end of any warfare are going to experience terror. But that is not what terrorism is, even under its more expanded understanding.

Conventional armed forces engaging with one another is not terrorism.

Yes it is, and the British are masters of it. The pre-bombing by the British prior to Somme was deliberately done to cause 'terror', Churchiill was a supreme master of it, he bombed Dresden and Cologne with the specific intention of causing 'terror' among civilian populations. Was lucky not to get done on war crimes as a result. That is not to mention his 'distinguished' record elsewhere prior to the War.

Are you disputing that MMcG said that SF would reflect and review its support for policing in the region if Mr Adams is charged but urged republicans to remain calm if and until that happened?

Yes he did say that, because if it turns out that this was an act carried out by 'dark forces' with the PSNI then that is political policing.
He did NOT say it would be because one of his got arrested, and both he and Adams where at pains to say the PSNI where fully entitled to question Adams. Grow up and read and listen to what is being said.

JohnInDublin59 wrote: »

Frankly I couldn’t be arsed looking up specific SF quotes in this matter

Obviously :rolleyes:

Because of course if this happened 6 months later or earlier SF and their little fan club here would have said ‘fair enough, no one is above the law, it is incumbent on the police to investigate all leads into this terrible murder.’

Yeah.

Right.

I suggest you listen to the press conference again.

martinedwards

as a side question.....

are any of the people involved in this discussion old enough to have been there?

I'm 47, I was.

CLOSEST i got to a bomb was about 150 yards from the one that took out the high park and the police authority offices in High St Belfast.

I was working in a restaurant and the RUC tied the Keep back tape to the gutter down pipe of the restaurant.

regularly heard machine gun fire late at night when leaving work colleagues home to Divis.

Oh yeah, and had a great uncle killed.

but not saying by whom as it'd just add fuel to one side or other.

Karl Stein

ryan101 wrote: »

aka kids and mothers out shopping

The apparatus of the sectarian state was kids and mothers out shopping?

Do you have any clue at all what you're talking about?

JohnInDublin59

Phoebas wrote: »

They broke the GFA when they arrested Adams? What section?

Well really Phoebas

That's a ridiculous question.

I would refer you to Secret Paragraph 19, Sub Para 3, of the GFA, ‘Special Rules For Shinners’

“If anyone dares question or criticise the Shinners, or do anything that doesn’t suit them, they and/or their legion of special little friends shall respond ad nauseam with one or more of the following

‘West Brits!’
‘Unionists!’
‘Bureaucrats! Securocrats! Secure bureaucrats!’
‘What about Bloody Sunday’
‘Hit me now, with the Peace Process in me arrums’
Etc

In general, the principle that SF can be treated like other parties – ie be open to criticism – shall be read to mean that any criticism of SF shall be deemed to be criticism of the peace process”

ryan101

Karl Stein wrote: »

The apparatus of the sectarian state was kids and mothers out shopping?

Do you have any clue at all what you're talking about?

Yes, the IRA's victims of terrorism, kids and pregnant women out shopping.

umop.episdn

WilyCoyote wrote: »

No. It's the cops' fault that people were killed and injured there. After all, a warning was given. The Police Station wasn't too far away. The IRA tactic was to create havoc in the business community and thereby cause some serious questioning in business/political circles about the British role in Ireland.
I realise you and your ilk would love to blame the IRA for every killing ....... but the reality is, if Britain had kept their greedy paws out of Ireland ...... this and every killing of the Troubles would not have taken place.
But then how would you get rid of all that bile?

Oh there's a lot of bile alright, fortunately enough it's all contained in that post of yours

end of the road

ryan101 wrote: »

no, just the IRA being the cowardly terrorists that they are, blowing up kids out shopping and pregnant women.

and the BA being the cowardly terrorists that they are slaughtering as they go and siding with other groups to keep NI as the sectarian statelet that britain wanted

RandomName2

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Getting a bit emotional there. I would not link the word cowardly with the IRA. Or any guerrilla outfit for that matter. Because they are always fighting against a better equipped/trained army.
But if you so wish ....... that's your prerogative.

Even in Northern Ireland the acronym "IRA" became largely translated to "I ran away"

Most IRA deaths were due to infighting, or being so clumsy with their own bombs that they died in the process.

The IRA rarely targeted the BA, either directly or indirectly.

Even Al Qaeda are committed enough to sacrifice their lives in the process.

end of the road

umop.episdn wrote: »

Ah! I understand. It's the cops fault that the ira blew people up!

yes it was

end of the road

JohnInDublin59 wrote: »

According to Wiki – ‘Birmingham pub bombing’

‘At 20:11 a man with an Irish accent telephoned the Post newspaper and said: "There is a bomb planted in the Rotunda and there is a bomb in New Street at the tax office".[7] A telephoned warning was also sent to the Birmingham Evening Mail newspaper giving an IRA code name and warning of a bomb in the Rotunda.[8] [9] The Rotunda was a 25-storey office block that housed the "Mulberry Bush" pub on its lower two floors.[10] The police started to check the upper floors of the Rotunda but failed to clear the crowded pub at street level. Six minutes after the warning, at 20:17, the bomb exploded inside a duffel bag, devastating the pub’

So, the police didn’t clear the building in 6 minutes. Consequently in Shinner-World, it’s all the fault of the nasty police, who just wanted to make the poor innocent Provos look bad, and not the Provos who planted bombs in crowded pubs.

I think the Omagh bombers tried a similar excuse – it’s a fairly standard Provo one - and it was generally treated with appropriate contempt.

the cops didn't do their job and evacuate the people in time

Iwasfrozen

Folks after 200 pages can we not just agree the IRA were bad people and leave it at that?

twowheelsgood

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes it is, and the British are masters of it. The pre-bombing by the British prior to Somme was deliberately done to cause 'terror', Churchiill was a supreme master of it, he bombed Dresden and Cologne with the specific intention of causing 'terror' among civilian populations. Was lucky not to get done on war crimes as a result. That is not to mention his 'distinguished' record elsewhere prior to the War.

Well if you are going to persist with your definition that terrorism is the use of force that instils terror, or however you choose to define it then I guess terrorism can be whatever you want it to be.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes he did say that, because if it turns out that this was an act carried out by 'dark forces' with the PSNI then that is political policing.

His threat was conditional on Adams being charged, not on the uncovering of dark forces within the PSNI

Happyman42 wrote: »

Grow up and read and listen to what is being said.

I’m all grown up, I have read what he said and quoted it in my post and you agreed that this is what he said.

umop.episdn

end of the road wrote: »

the cops didn't do their job and evacuate the people in time

The ira didnt give them enough time to do so. They wanted to kill as many innocent people as possible & take police & fire service personnel too.

JohnInDublin59

end of the road wrote: »

yes it was

Ie yes it was ‘...the cops fault that the ira blew people up!’

There is no point attempting logic or debate with this type of mentality

twowheelsgood

JohnInDublin59 wrote: »

Ie yes it was ‘...the cops fault that the ira blew people up!’

There is no point attempting logic or debate with this type of mentality

And he's not necessarily trolling. The 'volunteers' would actually blame the police when people were blown up by their bombs. Surreal stuff.

bumper234

end of the road wrote: »

you can't get out of it now you have admitted it

Admitted nothing, not my fault you cannot follow a conversation. Run along now, i won't feed you.

Shakespeare's Sister

Ah Jesus. I support those of a nationalist/moderate republican persuasion (but never violence) and the Irish anti nationalist lot here (who don't seem capable of condemning any wrongdoing by loyalists/the security forces) are nauseating... but "It was the cops' fault" in relation to a bomb planted by the IRA is despicable. And fanaticism that's as bad as anything fanatical by loyalists. How can anything but division be expected with abdication of responsibility like that?