breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

pO1Neil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why do socialists always feel the need to create a false dichotomy between themselves and facists?

Oh yes that's right, because they need to justify their bat shít crazy ideals.

Your openly defending fascism? And how would they know their bat sh!t crazy if they can't be arsed to listen to them. It didn't have anything to do with socialism anyway, if you could take your nose away from Oliver J Flanagan & Eoin Duffy's lovechild's ass for just a second you would have noticed that.

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

Your openly defending fascism?

lol you've just proven what I said about creating a false dichotomy between socialism and fascism.

pO1Neil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

lol you've just proven what I said about creating a false dichotomy between socialism and fascism.

What? Your the one who called Bumper234 a fascist & said I needed to create a false dichotomy between him & socialists.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is going on in Belfast? People are adding Tout to the Peacemaker Leader Visionary caption on Gerry's mural. Same thing happened in Dundalk to a poster version which was taken down. This is nothing new, rumours have circulated for years as shown by the discussion from 6 years ago. After Donaldson anything is possible.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-mural-paintbombed-community-divided-over-arrest-30243315.html

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/25509-gerry-adams-mi5-agent-also.html

Lol.

Someone scrawled "I love Bridget Murphy" on my pencil case once too. :pac:

Lastlight.

pO1Neil wrote: »

Showing hatred to anything to the left of Mussolini again without even hearing his points. Bet you were a big Franco fan back in the day, just put a leftie up against a wall & shoot him.

Did you start the Tea Bag movement over in the US by any chance?

All he talked about was settlers. Its about time George got over that. Nothing is going to reverse the fact that thousands of Protestants live in Ulster.

bumper234

pO1Neil wrote: »

I can just feel your hatred spewing out of this post. You mean you'll own listen to far-right indo people & won't listen to the other side that you consider crazy ramblers.

Please name these "far right indo people" who i will only listen to. How does one "feel hatred" from words on a screen? Maybe your computer is overheating? You should get that looked at. FYI i never said Galloway was a "crazy rambler" (doesn't stop you making false claims though) but i do think the man is an idiot, my opinion and i am entitled to it.

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

What? Your the one who called Bumper234 a fascist & said I needed to create a false dichotomy between him & socialists.

I didn't call Bumper anything but I did accuse you of creating a false dichotomy between fascism and socialism.

Whosthis

pO1Neil wrote: »

You won't even listen to someones point of view or bother to tell them why their wrong you just aspect everyone to agree with you no matter what & your surprised your being criticized?

Does he do that in 4:3 or 16:9?

tomwaterford

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is going on in Belfast? People are adding Tout to the Peacemaker Leader Visionary caption on Gerry's mural. Same thing happened in Dundalk to a poster version which was taken down. This is nothing new, rumours have circulated for years as shown by the discussion from 6 years ago. After Donaldson anything is possible.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-mural-paintbombed-community-divided-over-arrest-30243315.html

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/25509-gerry-adams-mi5-agent-also.html

how SF got off without any questions that time is baffling

sillyoulfool

pO1Neil wrote: »

Telling them he's the man who saved the Northern part of this country.

Lying to children is a form of abuse.
Oops I forgot Gerry is okish with abuse so long as it does not embarrass him.

pO1Neil

Well that's a lot right wing nonsense to respond to but if anyone was under the illusion that we on this island nation have a free and pluralist media they will have been bitterly disappointed. Instead we live in a country under the axis of a media consensus that Fox News or other right-wing pundits in the United States could only dream of.

pO1Neil

Lastlight. wrote: »

All he talked about was settlers. Its about time George got over that. Nothing is going to reverse the fact that thousands of Protestants live in Ulster.

Eh, he was saying there was no comparison between Ireland & Scotland and that Scotland has as much Irish blood on it's hands as England.

I don't care if there what religion they are. They need to get over their supremacist ideology & create a peacefully & lasting union with their fellow countrymen. That's the only way peace will last on this island.

crusher000

Tail Docker wrote: »

You have it backways - he was quoting your post to make a point - Bumper looked for evidence that someone said GA was guilty etc. Your post was evidence. He wasn't trolling or accusing anyone of anything.

They have now reported me for an infringement and thank you Tail Docker for seeing my point exactly

Da Shins Kelly

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Every single crime shouldn't be brought up, but murders should.

All of what I said still applies.

RandomName2

bumper234 wrote: »

I don't use hate for anyone or anything, i just have no time for the likes of Galloway. Accusing me of being a fascist though? A new low even for you

Centrist, moderate, middle-of-the-road. These are concepts that are lost on some. You are either left wing or right wing, socialist or fascist, pro-IRA or pro-BA, Irish or English. If you reject one you must accept the other. Scary stuff.

Lingua Franca

RandomName2 wrote: »

Centrist, moderate, middle-of-the-road. These are concepts that are lost on some. You are either left wing or right wing, socialist or fascist, pro-IRA or pro-BA, Irish or English. If you reject one you must accept the other. Scary stuff.

Insane, isn't it? Life would be terrifying if it was so binary.

pO1Neil

RandomName2 wrote: »

Centrist, moderate, middle-of-the-road. These are concepts that are lost on some. You are either left wing or right wing, socialist or fascist, pro-IRA or pro-BA, Irish or English. If you reject one you must accept the other. Scary stuff.

Exactly.

I'm not pro-IRA & the IRA has done some horrible actions in Ireland along with other military organizations official & unofficial, what I support is the right of a oppressed people to rise up against a brutal & oppressive regime. If I supported the oppressed Palestinians, Vietnamese, British miners, Black South Africans, Resistance groups during WW2 etc... then I will support the right of my own countrymen to rise up & fight but that does not mean for one second I support the right of every single action they carried out during that fight & it does not mean for one second I have anything against British people.
I have more in common with someone in Bradford or Manchester who sees the world the same way I do instead of a person like Bumper who supports the oppressor. Infact I think it was Ken Livingstone who said the Irish suffered more under British rule than the Jews did under Nazi rule, now I'm not sure about that but that shows just what type of support we could get in Britain. Sinn Fein got more & could count on more support during the war from more prominent British politicians than they did Free State ones.

If I was an Irish citizen living in the North I'd want an apology from the Dublin government for a) the neglect they showed & b) for the demonetization of some communities in the North. People in the North supported the IRA because their was a power vacuum left by Dublin in the nationalist areas in the North which was filled by the IRA, it's not that hard to understand & candidly I don't believe people don't understand it the truth is they can't accept it.

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

Exactly.

I'm not pro-IRA & the IRA has done some horrible actions in Ireland along with other military organizations official & unofficial, what I support is the right of a oppressed people to rise up against a brutal & oppressive regime. If I supported the oppressed Palestinians, Vietnamese, British miners, Black South Africans, Resistance groups during WW2 etc... then I will support the right of my own countrymen to rise up & fight but that does not mean for one second I support the right of every single action they carried out during that fight & it does not mean for one second I have anything against British people.
I have more in common with someone in Bradford or Manchester who sees the world the same way I do instead of a person like Bumper who supports the oppressor. Infact I think it was Ken Livingstone who said the Irish suffered more under British rule than the Jews did under Nazi rule, now I'm not sure about that but that shows just what type of support we could get in Britain. Sinn Fein got more & could count on more support during the war from more prominent British politicians than they did Free State ones.

If I was an Irish citizen living in the North I'd want an apology from the Dublin government for a) the neglect they showed & b) for the demonetization of some communities in the North. People in the North supported the IRA because their was a power vacuum left by Dublin in the nationalist areas in the North which was filled by the IRA, it's not that hard to understand & candidly I don't believe people don't understand it the truth is they can't accept it.

And you don't see the hypocrisy in claiming to be democratic yet supporting a group who wanted to bring about the unification of Ireland against the wishes of the majority of NI's population.

pO1Neil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And you don't see the hypocrisy in claiming to be democratic yet supporting a group who wanted to bring about the unification of Ireland against the wishes of the majority of NI's population.

It's not because N.Ireland was created against the wishes of the Irish people.

RandomName2

pO1Neil wrote: »

It's not because N.Ireland was created against the wishes of the Irish people.

But you're doing exactly what I was saying!

It wasn't black and white! There was the very large unionist minority. Now some posters on this thread will think that they should have been pushed back into the sea, and many will (correctly) point out the sectarian policies pursued by the Gerrymandered Unionist governments in the country of Northern Ireland that was created - but you cannot simply say that the creation of N.Ireland was, by definition "a bad thing".

Some more moderate nationalists will say that the unionists should have been forced into a united Ireland, and that these unionists would have been well treated. But again, this is as high-handed as the converse, and furthermore, all evidence points to the opposite.

P.S. It's also a bit glib to say that Dublin should have "stepped in" in relation to Northern Ireland (á la Haughey & co. style?)

mylefttesticle

RandomName2 wrote: »

But you're doing exactly what I was saying!

It wasn't black and white! There was the very large unionist minority. Now some posters on this thread will think that they should have been pushed back into the sea, and many will (correctly) point out the sectarian policies pursued by the Gerrymandered Unionist governments in the country of Northern Ireland that was created - but you cannot simply say that the creation of N.Ireland was, by definition "a bad thing".

Some more moderate nationalists will say that the unionists should have been forced into a united Ireland, and that these unionists would have been well treated. But again, this is as high-handed as the converse, and furthermore, all evidence points to the opposite.

P.S. It's also a bit glib to say that Dublin should have "stepped in" in relation to Northern Ireland (á la Haughey & co. style?)

There is a sizeable Polish minority here now, should we create a separate polish country for them? ultimately controlled by the polish government?

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

It's not because N.Ireland was created against the wishes of the Irish people.

NI was created because the majority of the people in the North East of the island didn't want to leave the UK.

If you want to protect the rights of minority people then you should be protecting the right of the Unionist minority to self determination.

Otherwise you're not being consist in your politics, you're just being hypocritical.

RandomName2

mylefttesticle wrote: »

There is a sizeable Polish minority here now, should we create a separate polish country for them? ultimately controlled by the polish government?

You are making a point without really realising it.

If the large polish minority stayed here for a number of generations, maintained their own culture but knew nothing of Poland (having been born and raised in this country), had a defined geographical demographic, and wanted to pursue their culture in opposition to the Irish government then... well they'd probably want a separate state I suppose.

That's kind of why there are borders in the world.

Whether they should be granted such independence? Well, can you force people to be part of your country if they don't want to be? Hmm.. you can try. :rolleyes: Not much point saying "go back home" if they consider it their home.

Want a clean answer? This isn't one.

pO1Neil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

NI was created because the majority of the people in the North East of the island didn't want to leave the UK.

If you want to protect the rights of minority people then you should be protecting the right of the Unionist minority to self determination.

Otherwise you're not being consist in your politics, you're just being hypocritical.

Again N.Ireland was created to guarantee a Uinionist majority. It didn't matter what the people of Derry, Tyrone or Fermanagh wanted they were little more than pawns. What about the minority of people in Dublin or Cork who wanted to stay in the Union where is there state.? There's a sizable minority within n.Ireland who don't want a union with Britain where is there state? Your criticizing yourself saying a minority has the right to dictate to a majority, what the hell is democratic about that?

pO1Neil

RandomName2 wrote: »

You are making a point without really realising it.

If the large polish minority stayed here for a number of generations, maintained their own culture but knew nothing of Poland (having been born and raised in this country), had a defined geographical demographic, and wanted to pursue their culture in opposition to the Irish government then... well they'd probably want a separate state I suppose.

That's kind of why there are borders in the world.

Whether they should be granted such independence? Well, can you force people to be part of your country if they don't want to be? Hmm.. you can try. :rolleyes: Not much point saying "go back home" if they consider it their home.

Want a clean answer? This isn't one.

Sure f.... it then let's go the whole hog & give everyone a different opinion to their neighbor their own state & government.

mylefttesticle

RandomName2 wrote: »

You are making a point without really realising it.

If the large polish minority stayed here for a number of generations, maintained their own culture but knew nothing of Poland (having been born and raised in this country), had a defined geographical demographic, and wanted to pursue their culture in opposition to the Irish government then... well they'd probably want a separate state I suppose.

That's kind of why there are borders in the world.

Whether they should be granted such independence? Well, can you force people to be part of your country if they don't want to be? Hmm.. you can try. :rolleyes: Not much point saying "go back home" if they consider it their home.

Want a clean answer? This isn't one.

There are borders in the world determine sovereignty of nations but as we have seen and still see they really mean nothing if the class room bully wants something.

RandomName2

pO1Neil wrote: »

Again N.Ireland was created to guarantee a Uinionist majority. It didn't matter what the people of Derry, Tyrone or Fermanagh wanted they were little more than pawns. What about the minority of people in Dublin or Cork who wanted to stay in the Union where is there state.? There's a sizable minority within n.Ireland who don't want a union with Britain where is there state? Your criticizing yourself saying a minority has the right to dictate to a majority, what the hell is democratic about that?

But democracies are fundamentally underpinned by the dictatorship of the majority: it's a defining principle of how democracies work. This is fine when a democratic country is cohesive - but, in fact, when it has massive minorities, sometimes a dictatorship can be more stable and sustainable! Iraq would be a perfect example of this (it really should be 3 countries, but Turkey has threatened war, for instance, if an independent Kurdistan were to be created).

There will always be minorities in countries - the trick is to have these minorities so small that they can be integrated. The problem in NI was that there were large minorities: suddenly those afraid of oppression became the oppressors. Unionists' fear of nationalists made them an enemy they may otherwise might not have become.

RandomName2

mylefttesticle wrote: »

There are borders in the world determine sovereignty of nations but as we have seen and still see they really mean nothing if the class room bully wants something.

You mean invasion and annexation? Well in that case, the border merely shifts...

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

Again N.Ireland was created to guarantee a Uinionist majority. It didn't matter what the people of Derry, Tyrone or Fermanagh wanted they were little more than pawns. What about the minority of people in Dublin or Cork who wanted to stay in the Union where is there state.? There's a sizable minority within n.Ireland who don't want a union with Britain where is there state? Your criticizing yourself saying a minority has the right to dictate to a majority, what the hell is democratic about that?

Ask yourself why does Ireland deserve independence? There is no answer you can give that cannot also be applied to the unionist minority in Ireland. That's why you're being hypocritical.

mylefttesticle

RandomName2 wrote: »

You mean invasion and annexation? Well in that case, the border merely shifts...

You may use those words, for a lot of people it is stealing plain and simple.