breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

Because Ireland was a majority & the people of Ireland had no choice or say in who they were governed by. The North was colonized for the reason to dived the people of the island the better for an imperialist government to rule it.

I believe in the will of the majority of a nation & I don't believe in splitting up nations as it leads to false divisions & people who really suffer are the ordinary working class people which is evident from the break up of our own country, Vietnam, Palestine, Germany etc.... It's not really that hard to understand at all & candidly I don't believe you don't understand it the truth is you can't accept it. I wouldn't accept a minority breaking up the country in Cork, Dublin or Galway just like I don't accept it in Belfast or anywhere else in the country.

Ok we're getting somewhere here. You don't believe in breaking up nations. Now my next question is,

What makes a nation?

on the river

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ok we're getting somewhere here. You don't believe in breaking up nations. Now my next question is,

What makes a nation?

the people , its government and its flag

Iwasfrozen

on the river wrote: »

the people , its government and its flag

But can a nation not survive without a government or a flag? For example the Kurdish nation.

Surely nation is composed only of people? People who share an identity, culture, history, ethnicity etc.

If this is the case then a separate people who share a distinct identity, culture, history, ethnicity etc. are not members of that nation and surely must constitute their own.

Fratton Fred

on the river wrote: »

the people , its government and its flag

One people, one nation, one leader.

That has a good ring to it, I'm sure a nationalist/socialist party could adopt that...

Iwasfrozen

Fratton Fred wrote: »

One people, one nation, one leader.

That has a good ring to it, I'm sure a nationalist/socialist party could adopt that...

I've always liked blood and soil myself. The idea that a particular ethnicity has the right to own and dominate a piece of land (like an island) to the exclusion of all others...

kingchess

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I've always liked blood and soil myself. The idea that a particular ethnicity has the right to own and dominate a piece of land (like an island) to the exclusion of all others...

are you talking about the british right to rule ireland up to the 1920s or the irish claim to northern ireland up to gfa???

kingchess

Fratton Fred wrote: »

One people, one nahttp://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/icons/icon10.pngtion, one leader.

That has a good ring to it, I'm sure a nationalist/socialist party could adopt that...

are you a fan of alex salmond and the snp??

Iwasfrozen

kingchess wrote: »

are you talking about the british right to rule ireland up to the 1920s or the irish claim to northern ireland up to gfa???

I mean the Irish dogged refusal to acknowledge other native ethnic groups like travelers or unionists.

kingchess

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I mean the Irish dogged refusal to acknowledge other native ethnic groups like travelers or unionists.

ok,and of course the unionist should acknowledge the native groups like travellers and nationalists-yes?

Iwasfrozen

kingchess wrote: »

ok,and of course the unionist should acknowledge the native groups like travellers and nationalists-yes?

Of course. And both nationalists and unionists should have their own states.

kingchess

yeah right,split northern Ireland up between nationalist and unionist-dont see that working::

bumper234

kingchess wrote: »

yeah right,split northern Ireland up between nationalist and unionist-dont see that working::

So what should be done?

pO1Neil

Think this man can explain it better than anyone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYjpu8JUUbE

bumper234

pO1Neil wrote: »

Think this man can explain it better than anyone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYjpu8JUUbE

My lord

Sinn fein supporters are ugly.

Iwasfrozen

kingchess wrote: »

yeah right,split northern Ireland up between nationalist and unionist-dont see that working::

That's not what I was talking about but actually splitting Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh and Tyrone from Down and Antrim wouldn't be a bad idea.

It would mean less nationalists in the UK, and NI would be much cheaper for the UK to finance.

kingchess

is gerry like the second coming in your eyes?and why do you think his left-wing policies would work??by the way why are the nationilast parties kinda left wing and unionist parties kinda right wing??what happens if you are right wing nationalist or left wing unionist?/

wazky

bumper234 wrote: »

My lord

Sinn fein supporters are ugly.

Have you ever seen the usual loyalist/unionist posse?, when they gather its like someone has opened the gates to Mordor.

Iwasfrozen

bumper234 wrote: »

My lord

Sinn fein supporters are ugly.

And badly dressed.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's not what I was suggesting but actually splitting Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh and Tyrone from Down and Antrim wouldn't be a bad idea.

It would mean less nationalists in the UK, and NI would be much cheaper for the UK to finance.

what of the irish left behind...in effect you are condemning them to a repeat of the past from the 20s upto the beginning of the troubles...that would be a backward step

kingchess wrote: »

is gerry like the second coming in your eyes?and why do you think his left-wing policies would work??by the way why are the nationilast parties kinda left wing and unionist parties kinda right wing??what happens if you are right wing nationalist or left wing unionist?/

this I have always wondered...why has a unionist party represntive of working class loyalists come about...them young lads rioting in Belfast every summer will never be represented properly by the politians of the dup and uup

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

what of the irish left behind...in effect you are condemning them to a repeat of the past from the 20s upto the beginning of the troubles...that would be a backward step

That's unfortunate but being practical you have to draw the line somewhere and a county by county basis seems sensible. I wouldn't be hostile to the idea in theory of splitting counties though if there was a clear demographic enclave that could be removed but those don't exist in Down or Antrim.[/QUOTE]

mickydoomsux

kingchess wrote: »

by the way why are the nationilast parties kinda left wing and unionist parties kinda right wing??what happens if you are right wing nationalist or left wing unionist?/

They are like Democrats and Republicans in the US.

Opposite to each other just for the sake of being opposite to each other. Childish nonsense that gets very little done.

kingchess

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's not what I was talking about but actually splitting Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh and Tyrone from Down and Antrim wouldn't be a bad idea.

It would mean less nationalists in the UK, and NI would be much cheaper for the UK to finance.

what happens to the unionist people in these counties then?why should they be made join the republic?not very democratic is it.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's unfortunate but being practical you have to draw the line somewhere and a county by county basis seems sensible. I wouldn't be hostile to the idea in theory of splitting counties though if there was a clear demographic enclave that could be removed but those don't exist in Down or Antrim.

[/QUOTE]

draw the line at the coast:D

in all fairness...unionists would have a huge amount to offer Ireland in a UI situation (those that are not anti-irish)

wazky

mickydoomsux wrote: »

They are like Democrats and Republicans in the US.

Opposite to each other just for the sake of being opposite to each other. Childish nonsense that gets very little done.

Unionists/Loyalists do have strong connections to the right wing and racist organisations (C18 etc.)

Banjo String

bumper234 wrote: »

My lord

Sinn fein supporters are ugly.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And badly dressed.

Have you pair not school in the Morning?

This is the standard of debate?

Iwasfrozen

kingchess wrote: »

what happens to the unionist people in these counties then?why should they be made join the republic?not very democratic is it.

Again unfortunate but it'll mean less unionists or nationalists caught in the "wrong side" than an all or nothing referendum.

I wouldn't be opposed to repatriation but that's fallen out of vogue since after wwii.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Again unfortunate but it's more efficient than an all or nothing referendum.

how??

Iwasfrozen

draw the line at the coast:D

in all fairness...unionists would have a huge amount to offer Ireland in a UI situation (those that are not anti-irish)

No,

Maybe but they don't want to be part of a UI and shouldn't be forced into it.

tomwaterford wrote: »

how??

Less unionists or nationalists caught on the wrong side.

The goal is to minimise the number of minorities in either country.

bumper234

Banjo String wrote: »

Have you pair not school in the Morning?

This is the standard of debate?

Not debate, just my honest and open opinion which i am fully entitled to air on a public discussion forum.

kingchess

any desire for going it alone in the north?take away the stick that they beat each other with,they have far more in common than that which devides them