breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

Jawgap

wazky wrote: »

Seriously?, that's your reply?

Idiotic doesn't cover it.

not the entirety of my reply - just a special one for that particular poster. I'll doubt he'll read it anyway.

However, back on thread....

There are merits in a proper truth and reconciliation process - assuming there'd be consensus among the victims' families. But until then the criminal investigative process should continue and if evidence of a crime is unearthed then it should be put before the courts.

Happyman42

Karl Stein wrote: »

Wouldn't be at all surprised if SF's vote increased due to this tbh. People who'd normally be critical of SF (the more balanced ones not the neurotic ones) are suspicious of the timing and critical of double standards when it comes to seeking historic justice.

Said it yesterday that if my social media is anything to go by then this could be very counterproductive for those in the establishment.
Wouldn't be the first time the British shot themselves in the foot by doing the wrong thing at the right time!

Karl Stein

pO1Neil wrote: »

There was a campaign for them & the families were basically told to f*** off. Apparently some kids are more important than others.

If you're new here let me give you a little advice, don't allow that poster to wind you up as that's what he gorges himself on. It only encourages him, best ignored.

twowheelsgood

Karl Stein wrote: »

Wouldn't be at all surprised if SF's vote increased due to this tbh. People who'd normally be critical of SF (the more balanced ones not the neurotic ones) are suspicious of the timing and critical of double standards when it comes to seeking historic justice.

SF might actually benefit from this and they might actually be damaged by this (my money says there will be little effect unless Adams is charged, and even then …)

And this is precisely the reason why the daft conspiracy theory is, well daft. You don’t pull a stoke if you cannot have some confidence that you will gain more than you will lose. Anyone without any notion about republican politics would appreciate that anticipating the impact of all of this is simply guesswork.

The real reason for the conspiracy theory being wheeled out is to allow SF to exploit this to the maximum and hats off, they’re doing a decent job. (Which is not to say that there are some loons who actually do think this was orchestrated)

ThisRegard

Karl Stein wrote: »

People who'd normally be critical of SF (the more balanced ones not the neurotic ones) are suspicious of the timing and critical of double standards when it comes to seeking historic justice.

I would doubt it.

Karl Stein

twowheelsgood wrote: »

bla bla bla

You know there's only one thing worse than a person who sees conspiracy everywhere.

You know what that is? An innocence theorist. Back to Ladybird books, son.

Worksforyou

Jawgap wrote: »

38 actually, but you never were good with numbers (or words)

Shouldn't there be some arrests at this stage? Medals stripped?

Karl Stein

ThisRegard wrote: »

I would doubt it.

We'll see. The numbers will speak for themselves.

Lady Spangles

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I can't believe this keeps cropping up about Adams. Does everyone not know at this stage that it was Ivor Bell who probably made the order regarding Jean McConville along with Brendan Hughes, who interestingly fell out with Adams before he died and can now be heard making accusations on a tape?

There's something very fishy about the whole thing anyway and its timing. Can't imagine it'll have much effect on most voters though, most people will have already made up their minds about Sinn Fein anyway.

I was wondering about this, also. It looks (on the surface and from a distance) as though Adams (as an individual) might be falling victim to a vendetta from within his own community, as much as British Machiavellianism. He alienated both Hughes and Bell, IIRC.

twowheelsgood

Karl Stein wrote: »

You know there's only one thing worse than a person who sees conspiracy everywhere.

You know what that is? An innocence theorist. Back to Ladybird books, son.

:pac: I think somebody just spotted (well I had to point it out to you) a great big hole in his theory. Not to worry, we can all make eejits of ourselves.

Karl Stein

twowheelsgood wrote: »

:pac: I think somebody just spotted (well I had to point it out to you) a great big hole in his theory. Not to worry, we can all make eejits of ourselves.

Ah the innocence of youth, so refreshing.

Listen sweetpea, if you think people with power don't discuss things, things that affect others in the world, things they may get wrong sometimes too mind, they're only human after all, then good luck in life.

Bless your cotton socks.

Red Pepper

Karl Stein wrote: »

Wouldn't be at all surprised if SF's vote increased due to this tbh. People who'd normally be critical of SF (the more balanced ones not the neurotic ones) are suspicious of the timing and critical of double standards when it comes to seeking historic justice.

FF lost 57 seats in 2011. SF could only grab 10 of them. I would have thought SF would be a more natural transfer from FF (to be open, I hate both parties) but instead 47 seats went to FG, Lab, IND.

Following that I feel SF have maxed their core vote. They should maintain that vote moving forward but with Adams at the helm, I do not expect people to turn to them any more than than they did in 2011.
They are just too "dodgy" and their economic policy was drawn up by a 3 year old.

bumper234

Worksforyou wrote: »

It's not whataboutery, why are you limitiing this debate? Surely for peace we need to move on from these arrests?

No one is limiting the debate, just trying to keep it on topic.

Zubeneschamali

pO1Neil wrote: »

The RIRA & CIRA can fire their recruiting sergeants the PSNI are doing their work for them.

So, don't arrest Gerry or terrorism will happen.

It's almost as if SF leaders had some kind of connection with terrorists.

Happyman42

Lady Spangles wrote: »

I was wondering about this, also. It looks (on the surface and from a distance) as though Adams (as an individual) might be falling victim to a vendetta from within his own community, as much as British Machiavellianism. He alienated both Hughes and Bell, IIRC.

Of course he alienated some, you would want to be completely uninformed not to see that and it isn't 'news'.
What also needs to be realised is that he is keeping a large and complex range of opinions on board the peace train. That is his huge contribution to this country.

Red Pepper

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So, don't arrest Gerry or terrorism will happen.

It's almost as if SF leaders had some kind of connection with terrorists.

:rolleyes:

Worksforyou

bumper234 wrote: »

No one is limiting the debate, just trying to keep it on topic.

Yes, all sides did bad things so we musn't look for redribution if we want peace.

wazky

bumper234 wrote: »

No one is limiting the debate, just trying to keep it on topic.

Or that you have no answer to the points made and are trying close down that line of discussion?

More plausible I think.

twowheelsgood

Karl Stein wrote: »

Something, something about me being a young one (I wish!) and my underwear (I think?)

You know, I think you don’t actually see your fallacy. (I thought you were rather a bright fellow, what with your use of big words like “neurotic” )

Let me see if I can illuminate.

Karl thinks that the arrest of Adams was part of a conspiracy because a consequence of such a move would be to damage SF electorally.

Karl thinks that the consequence of the arrest of Adams would be to help SF electorally.



Karl needs to decide what he actually does think!

K-9

Happyman42 wrote: »

Said it yesterday that if my social media is anything to go by then this could be very counterproductive for those in the establishment.
Wouldn't be the first time the British shot themselves in the foot by doing the wrong thing at the right time!

Ah yeah, Facebook and Twitter are good ways to gauge the electorates reaction, especially to something SF related.

McGuinness didn't do that great after allegations surfaced in the Presidential election, his support seemed to level off. Going on press reports even SF TD's and high up members are resigned to this probably seeing a plateau in their support in the EU/locals. I can't see it doing them much long term damage, assuming nothing too startling comes out in the mean time.

Karl Stein

bumper234 wrote: »

No one is limiting the debate, just trying to keep it on topic.

So the fact that Jean McConvilles killing is being rigorously investigated and the Ballymurphy killings by British soldiers is not is off topic?

You want an echo-chamber is it?

bumper234

Karl Stein wrote: »

Ah the innocence of youth, so refreshing.

Listen sweetpea, if you think people with power don't discuss things, things that affect others in the world, things they may get wrong sometimes too mind, they're only human after all, then good luck in life.

Bless your cotton socks.

Jaysus you're right. This will (in years to come) be known as Irelands 9-11 and we will all remember where we were when poor Gerry was arrested:rolleyes:

maccored

Its a bad sign when one has to stoop to insults and namecalling. 'shinnerbots' ... yeah. thats even more intelligent is it?

Barely There wrote: »

Deeply?

You sound really intelligent.

bumper234

wazky wrote: »

Or that you have no answer to the points made and are trying close down that line of discussion?

More plausible I think.

I will happily debate the other side of this in another thread, This thread is about the murder of JMC and the arrest of GA.

Karl Stein

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Karl thinks that the arrest of Adams was part of a conspiracy because a consequence of such a move would be to damage SF electorally.

Your reading comprehension is letting you down. Flattering as it is, you should ask me specific questions if you're so interested in engaging me in debate.

I think it's possible that this has been orchestrated in some way to be convenient to some actors - I have no idea if it is indeed a conspiracy but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it were.

Karl thinks that the consequence of the arrest of Adams would be to help SF electorally.

Again you adopt a position for me. I speculated on it backfiring if indeed the timing of Adams' arrest was politically motivated.

Happyman42

K-9 wrote: »

Ah yeah, Facebook and Twitter are good ways to gauge the electorates reaction, especially to something SF related.

McGuinness didn't do that great after allegations surfaced in the Presidential election, his support seemed to level off. Going on press reports even SF TD's and high up members are resigned to this probably seeing a plateau in their support in the EU/locals. I can't see it doing them much long term damage, assuming nothing too startling comes out in the mean time.

Just making an observation about what was happening on social media, the only other thing we can go on ahead of elections is opinion polls which had GA as most popular party leader here and SF up generally. That would translate into electoral gains above the previous plateau.

All we can do is wait for the elections.

Worksforyou

bumper234 wrote: »

I will happily debate the other side of this in another thread, This thread is about the murder of JMC and the arrest of GA.

No, when British army murders are brought up it's all sides done bad so for peace we have to move on. Are we excusing old murders or are we not? You can't just excuse some.

Seaneh

twowheelsgood wrote: »

You know, I think you don’t actually see your fallacy. (I thought you were rather a bright fellow, what with your use of big words like “neurotic” )

Let me see if I can illuminate.

Karl thinks that the arrest of Adams was part of a conspiracy because a consequence of such a move would be to damage SF electorally.

Karl thinks that the consequence of the arrest of Adams would be to help SF electorally.



Karl needs to decide what he actually does think!

And now what Karl is actually saying.

Karl thinks it possible the arrest was politically motivated and an attempt to damage the image of SF in the run up to the local and european elections, north and south of the border, to try and halt or limit their continued rise in support.

Karl, however, thinks this will backfire and will cause Sf to gain support as a result.

Karl Stein

bumper234 wrote: »

Jaysus you're right. This will (in years to come) be known as Irelands 9-11 and we will all remember where we were when poor Gerry was arrested:rolleyes:

You think 9-11 was a conspiracy by the US government is it?

I certainly don't.

Stay on topic. Focus.

K-9

Red Pepper wrote: »

FF lost 57 seats in 2011. SF could only grab 10 of them. I would have thought SF would be a more natural transfer from FF (to be open, I hate both parties) but instead 47 seats went to FG, Lab, IND.

Following that I feel SF have maxed their core vote. They should maintain that vote moving forward but with Adams at the helm, I do not expect people to turn to them any more than than they did in 2011.
They are just too "dodgy" and their economic policy was drawn up by a 3 year old.

Nah, more went to Labour (proportionately more) and FG if you look at the election results. As FF were the traditional party of power there's no love lost between FF and SF. Where that extra 9% that Labour got, together with maybe another couple of percent dropped, goes will probably determine which of SF or FF finishes second. Is that vote disillusioned enough to vote SF or go back to FF.