breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

William F

No need to go digging.

Here is the statement again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpwZdV4MSwM

crusher000

Ah but wait they will come back with what he meant not what he said because that doesn't support their argument.

Elmer Blooker

end of the road wrote: »

change of name and a few different people in charge, thats all, as a police force, its still more or less the same old same old with a couple of improvements to make it look like they have moved away from the old days

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. The cops on the beat may be more acceptable but the same Special Branch are obviously still in place.
"they haven't gone away you know" - ironic?

sillyoulfool

Maphisto wrote: »

OK but
"SF and demanding immunity from prosecution for Adams as the their price for continued support for policing"

is not the same as

Mr McGuinness said Sinn Féin would "reflect" and "review" its support for policing"

De facto, it is exactly the same thing.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Karl Stein

Banjo String wrote: »

Except they didn't say that at all.

Indeed. Spouting propaganda as if it were truth. Unsurprising.

Edit: I see he's now trying to worm out of being called out on regurgitating propaganda.

Time to get the crayons and paper out if you have the patience.

My name is URL

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Another 48 hours afaik, then another extension has to be sought. He can be held for up to 28 days in total and a new extension must be requested every 2 days.

Gatling

Martin wearing a red tie ( has he switched alliances and become a Gilmore fan ) ?

He seems so sad starting out there ,like something is coming to an end

alaimacerc

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I thought it would be more that he's an accessory to the crime, rather the one making the order.

I think giving the "order" would make one an accessory. It's not like a paramilitary command structure is going to be recognised under UK law, and will distinguish between what is or isn't formally an "order" or not. Are you saying he was more directly involved, in "deed" as well as "word"? Wouldn't that simply make him a "principal" to the murder, or one of the other offences involved?

All this stuff is just setting the peace process back anyway.

Trouble is, the GFA doesn't make provision for this sort of crap, and there's been no substantive progress since. Apparently SF don't want "blanket amnesty", and everyone else (or at least, the Unionists and the two governments) don't want "truth recovery" (or at least, not SF's version of it). Hence we get either the authorities sitting on their hands, or whenever they do do anything, one side or the other cherrypicks what "justice" requires, vs what's "setting back the peace process", or at least, prioritises their own... stuff, and is offended that some case they don't care about is apparently being progressed more than some other case they do care about.

Karl Stein

Gatling wrote: »

Martin wearing a red tie ( has he switched alliances and become a Gilmore fan ) ?

He seems so sad starting out there ,like something is coming to an end

It was the 01st of May yesterday.

Does that date ring any bells?

end of the road

sillyoulfool wrote: »

See SF are demanding immunity from prosecution for Adams as the their price for continued support for policing in Northern Ireland.

they have to, as any prosecution would be politicaly motivated and based on made up evidence.

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Democrats my arse, confirms what most rational people suspected all along, that the thugs with guns were now just thugs with suits!

such nonsense, SF are Democrats and are not thugs.

sillyoulfool wrote: »

"Mr McGuinness said Sinn Féin would "reflect" and "review" its support for policing in the region if Mr Adams is charged."

good, a police force which brings politicaly motivated and baseless charges against someone running in an election who has large support just to please tory boys should not be supported

Yamanoto

maccored wrote: »

or they could have done it some time in the past 5 weeks.

How do you know they were in a position to move?

You're welcome to pile in & indulge the conspiracy theory no doubt, but you're not privy to the investigation itself nor what it is that informs the sequencing or timing of any given operation.

bumper234

William F wrote: »

WHat's your point?

My point is he was arrested for a reason. My point is he is still being held for a reason. Those saying he is being held for political reasons and judges will easily give an extension because they are involved in the conspiracy is bolloxollogy. Their hero has been arrested and is being questioned over the cold blooded murder of a mother of 10 (awaits the what about replies) and they would prefer to see wild conspiracies for this rather than the facts that there is a very good chance he was involved with or at least had knowledge of this murder.

Maphisto

sillyoulfool wrote: »

De facto, it is exactly the same thing.

Well I think you mean that it amounts to the same thing but that's open to interpretation.

McGuiness (and I'm far from an apologist for SF) would argue that if policing in the North had become politicised SF would review its support - that is a good way from the quid pro quo that you are suggesting

Karl Stein

Maphisto wrote: »

I'm far from an apologist for SF

Remember your instructions shinnerbot, stay on script or you'll get us all dismantled and sent to the smelter. :mad:

bumper234

end of the road wrote: »

which can be, and is used against any minority group that is out of favour with a particular government, irish, muslims, blacks, so on

Oh my

*shakes head *

Embarrassed for you.

Donkey Oaty

bumper234 wrote: »

there is a very good chance he was involved with or at least had knowledge of this murder.

There are some posters on here whose genuine response to that would be "So what?"

None of them has had the balls to say it, but I am sure it is what some of them are thinking.

Maphisto

Karl Stein wrote: »

Remember your instructions shinnerbot, stay on script or you'll get us all dismantled and sent to the smelter. :mad:

LOL Karl - my point there was that all of my posts up to have been supportive of PSNI

sillyoulfool

Maphisto wrote: »

Well I think you mean that it amounts to the same thing but that's open to interpretation.

McGuiness (and I'm far from an apologist for SF) would argue that if policing in the North had become politicised SF would review its support - that is a good way from the quid pro quo that you are suggesting

I don't know what he would argue, but what he said today was clear and unequivocal, if Adams is charged they would review their support for policing, that is a threat, that is politicising policing because it says either Adams is immune from prosecution or we pull the plug.
Funnily enough I am far from convinced that Adams is guilty in this case and actually think, though I cant stand him, that a trial would be the best way for him to put this matter to rest once and for all, as a trial would require real hard evidence.

alaimacerc

Karl Stein wrote: »

That's amusing coming from a person who likes to use the term shinnerbot in a failed attempt to stigmatise people with opposing views

That's "lame ad hom", for those playing "spot the rhetorical fallacy" at home. Who has to have anything sensible to say about the use of a term in the actual context it was used, as as it was subsequently glossed, when they can just pull it out at random in any other context at the level of "yah, boo, sucks to be you"?

Oh, and more whataboutery, I think it goes without saying. Or is a certain amount to be priced in, at least point, so that it's somehow declassé to point it out?

in other words, those who actually speak about the real world as opposed to the Section 31 cruisermaniacal 'goodies and baddies' ladybird book view.

In other, and 100% 180-degrees distorted, words. And projecting your own choice of reading material and blinkered self-exceptionism onto others, with exactly zero supporting argument whatsoever.

But with many thanks, already, curiously. I wonder how one might best describe this reflexive, tribalist pack mentality? ("Yeah, that's telling him, the Blueshirt traitor scum! +1+1+1+1likelikelike.") That's almost robotic in its towing of the SF party orthodoxy. I can't think, but I'm sure something will come to me in due course.

Again I urge you to develop an understanding of the difference between whataboutery and exposing double standards, not an interpretation that you conjure to underpin your dogma.

"Dogma", indeed. You really don't have a clue -- much less a sense of irony.

I already explained the lack of basis of your putative "difference" back to you. I invite you to reflect on the inadequacy of your own "it's not whataboutery when we do it, because we're always right" line of patting yourself on the back.

I'm not in the mood to get out the crayons and paper to help guide you to a proper understanding.

Perhaps you accidentally ate them yourself? Please, get a proper line of argument before you seek to stagger out of the kiddie pool and incongruously seek to patronise others.

Karl Stein

Maphisto wrote: »

LOL Karl - my point there was that all of my posts up to have been supportive of PSNI

Yeah I know that, Sir.

I was poking fun at the shinnerbot label that gets applied to those with views opposed to the anti-Republicans.

Maphisto

sillyoulfool wrote: »

I don't know what he would argue, but what he said today was clear and unequivocal, if Adams is charged they would review their support for policing, that is a threat, that is politicising policing because it says either Adams is immune from prosecution or we pull the plug.
Funnily enough I am far from convinced that Adams is guilty in this case and actually think, though I cant stand him, that a trial would be the best way for him to put this matter to rest once and for all, as a trial would require real hard evidence.

If that is a quote it is not in any of the links provided thus far and you need to provide

William F

Karl Stein wrote: »

Remember your instructions shinnerbot, stay on script or you'll get us all dismantled and sent to the smelter. :mad:

MI5 all singing off the same hymn sheet

Valetta wrote: »

Martin McGuinness issuing not-so-veiled threats.

Has nothing changed?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/psni-want-more-time-to-quiz-adams-629433.html

sillyoulfool wrote: »

See SF are demanding immunity from prosecution for Adams as the their price for continued support for policing in Northern Ireland.
Democrats my arse, confirms what most rational people suspected all along, that the thugs with guns were now just thugs with suits!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0502/614764-adams-mcconville/

"Mr McGuinness said Sinn Féin would "reflect" and "review" its support for policing in the region if Mr Adams is charged."

Karl Stein

alaimacerc wrote: »

Perhaps you accidentally ate them yourself?

Eating them is preferable to having one pushed up your nose.

alaimacerc

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Funnily enough I am far from convinced that Adams is guilty in this case and actually think, though I cant stand him, that a trial would be the best way for him to put this matter to rest once and for all, as a trial would require real hard evidence.

But there's very unlikely to be a trial, for that very reason. If the only evidence is deceased testimony of other alleged participants, it'll be questionable if that's even admissible. The defence would (quite rightly) argue that such is likely to be prejudicial, and that they're being denied to crossexamine the people concerned to put to them such obvious countercharges as that they they're settling scores, and that they're deflecting or "spreading" blame from their own involvement and responsibility.

It certainly wouldn't constitute a prima facie case, which would be what was required for it to go to trial if charged, much less to have a realistic chance of success, which is the test the prosecutor is required to apply before deciding whether to proceed.

sillyoulfool

William F wrote: »

MI5 all singing off the same hymn sheet

I note that neither SF nor Martin Mc Guinness are denying that he made those statements.

alaimacerc

Karl Stein wrote: »

Eating them is preferable to having one pushed up your nose.

It was a toss up which metaphor (I'm hoping it's just a metaphor) to go with. I went with the more benign one -- ainchaglad?

alaimacerc

Karl Stein wrote: »

Remember your instructions shinnerbot, stay on script or you'll get us all dismantled and sent to the smelter. :mad:

"Put beyond use", as it were? I'm more optimistic, and I think that most could be usefully reprogrammed for more productive (or at least, slightly more rhetorically nuanced) work!

sillyoulfool

alaimacerc wrote: »

But there's very unlikely to be a trial, for that very reason. If the only evidence is deceased testimony of other alleged participants, it'll be questionable if that's even admissible. The defence would (quite rightly) argue that such is likely to be prejudicial, and that they're being denied to crossexamine the people concerned to put to them such obvious countercharges as that they they're settling scores, and that they're deflecting or "spreading" blame from their own involvement and responsibility.

It certainly wouldn't constitute a prima facie case, which would be what was required for it to go to trial if charged, much less to have a realistic chance of success, which is the test the prosecutor is required to apply before deciding whether to proceed.

If that is the case, then I as a democrat, will have to accept that Gerry Adams has the same right to the presumption of innocence, as anyone else.
I abhor trial by media, it would be hypocritical if I denied Adams the same legal protection that I demand for others.

Red Pepper

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0502/614764-adams-mcconville/

Mr McGuinness said Sinn Féin would "reflect" and "review" its support for policing in the region if Mr Adams is charged. But he urged republicans to remain calm if and until that happened.

I have gained some respect for McGuinness in recent years but that is a shocking thing to say for a democratic leader. I imagine there are a lot of political negotiations going on in the background now. Adams will escape this charge either way.

Mrs McConville's eldest daughter last night said she is prepared to name the people she believes are responsible for her mother's death.
"What are they going to do to me? They have done so much to me in the last 42 years," she told BBC's Newsnight.
"Are they going to come and put a bullet in my head? Well, they know where I live."

I hope she does.