breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

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Fergal O'Brien ‏@FergalTodayFM 47s
BREAKING: Belfast court gives PSNI detectives 48 extra hours to question Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams

alaimacerc

My name is URL wrote: »

I've been on the 'other side' of the argument in this thread so far.. but seriously, he and other SF members should play their cards a lot closer to their chests in matters like this. Fair enough, come out and show your support for party leader, but claiming it all to be a conspiracy, when Adams himself is the one that chose when to meet with police..? That's just bizarre.

I'm a little surprised myself. It's not exactly New Dispensation McGuinness. Might be getting a bit rattled, or thinks that with Gerry on the inside, he has to switch roles in the usual good-guy, bad-guy routine.

Has anyone made an argument against the fact that it was Adams that amicably decided to meet with police now? And how is he concluding that police extending his detention period 'proves' that it's a conspiracy? =/

I get why they're unhappy with this, all right; I think it's pretty sketchy to argue what it "proves", though.

maccored

if he is released without charge then I think its only fair serious questions are asked about the point of the whole thing. If that happens, then it will show SF have a point about elements in the RUC. Like really, they should be seriously thinking of charging him should they not, by seeking an extension? So if they dont end up charging him, it'll make me wonder about the timing of it.

alaimacerc

Santa Cruz wrote: »

This whole affair shows that Adams is a highly divisive element and Sinn Fein will be better off without him.

I don't think they have to get rid of him entirely, but surely it won't be that much longer before they decide he's not the best person to be their parliamentary leader in the Dáil. Wouldn't it make sense for him to stand down sometime during the next term, and start flying kites for a presidential run?

Maphisto

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Adams did not choose the time of the meeting. He offered to meet 5 weeks ago. A few days back he/his lawyer was contacted and he was asked to come in and meet them (otherwise he would become wanted and they'd arrest him). Adams was not happy with the timing and felt that it was designed to damage the election campaign. He was led to believe that he would be interviewed "under caution" and not actually arrested. He was also led to believe that he would not be held overnight never mind more than two days.(ie he could go home and come back the next day or whenever they wanted to meet again).

The first part is supposition - and is he was in the South runs into the whole extradition thing.

You have evidence for the second assertion? Because that is not the way police do things and Adams ain't no fool.

Gatling

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Adams did not choose the time of the meeting. He offered to meet 5 weeks ago. A few days back he/his lawyer was contacted and he was asked to come in and meet them (otherwise he would become wanted and they'd arrest him). Adams was not happy with the timing and felt that it was designed to damage the election campaign. He was led to believe that he would be interviewed "under caution" and not actually arrested. He was also led to believe that he would not be held overnight never mind more than two days.(ie he could go home and come back the next day or whenever they wanted to meet again).

Where did you read this exactly

delthedriver

The more you stretch the truth the easier it is to see through it






Old proverb

alaimacerc

maccored wrote: »

if he is released without charge then I think its only fair serious questions are asked about the point of the whole thing.

Never heard of the phrase "better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent is found guilty"? It follows from that that people found not guilty (or indeed, not charged, or not brought to trial) should calm it the heck down with the whole "it's a disgrace I was ever investigated" nonsense.

Note also that release without charge doesn't preclude charge at a later date.

If that happens, then it will show SF have a point about elements in the RUC. Like really, they should be seriously thinking of charging him should they not, by seeking an extension? So if they dont end up charging him, it'll make me wonder about the timing of it.

"The thing that everyone has been predicting will happen will lead me to think all the things I've been saying for a couple of days now anyway!" I think you need to propose a slightly more plausible-sounding "natural experiment".

Unknown Soldier

bumper234 wrote: »

Oh my

*shakes head *

Embarrassed for you.

I'm embarrassed for most of the posts/people in this thread.

There is an awful bang of people whose only information on everything "up north" is from snippets gleaned from current "news" and threads like this.

Aidric

My name is URL wrote: »

Has anyone made an argument against the fact that it was Adams that amicably decided to meet with police now? And how is he concluding that police extending his detention period 'proves' that it's a conspiracy? =/

That's not in doubt. It's the timing that seems to be the sticking point. I'm no SF apologist but if this is a divisive political stunt then it stinks.

Is it any wonder young people are disillusioned with politics when strokes like this are possibly being pulled? There are so many angles on this story that the conspiracy theorists must have the pants round the ankles.

alaimacerc

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

A few days back he/his lawyer was contacted and he was asked to come in and meet them (otherwise he would become wanted and they'd arrest him). Adams was not happy with the timing and felt that it was designed to damage the election campaign.

He could hardly have been that unhappy. Did he continue the correspondence and ask them to defer his questioning? Did he instruct his solicitor to seek to obtain such a delay? Couldn't he simply, worst come to the worst, have filibustered for another three weeks, lurked around Louth and other points South, and told everyone that unless they were to seek formal extradition, his availability for interview was being withdraw until after the elections?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0502/614...ms-mcconville/

Mr McGuinness said Sinn Féin would "reflect" and "review" its support for policing in the region if Mr Adams is charged. But he urged republicans to remain calm if and until that happened.

I'm having trouble understanding the last sentence. I'm not looking for a row or stupid jibes back, I just don't get this bit......

He urged republicans to remain calm if that happened.
He urged republicans to remain calm until that happened.

Isn't if and until two completely different situations?

delthedriver

alaimacerc wrote: »

I don't think they have to get rid of him entirely, but surely it won't be that much longer before they decide he's not the best person to be their parliamentary leader in the Dáil. Wouldn't it make sense for him to stand down sometime during the next term, and start flying kites for a presidential run?

A leader all alone is like the sound of one hand clapping !

Maphisto

Aidric wrote: »

There are so many angles on this story that the conspiracy theorists must have the pants round the ankles.

You have now left me with a very unpleasant vision which I am trying to erase.

alaimacerc

Maphisto wrote: »

Why did he not either present himself 5 weeks ago [...] he chose the time.

That's likely overstating matters. He's hardly likely to insist that he be interviewed at a particular time, without prior request from or agreement with the PSNI. ("Sorry, we're on our holidays!") But clearly he's had some degree of input and arrangement into matters.

Banjo String

Gatling wrote: »

What's the bet the word " Hear say " will be posted for the next several pages of replys

So long as it replaces "shinnerbot" or "whataboutery" I'm cool with that.

Another 48 hrs to question him? The man's hardly a flight risk for Christ sake. Political policing and nothing more.

Disappointed with the Psni. We had so much hope for a new and impartial police service, same old same old.

Arthur Beesley

alaimacerc wrote: »

Wouldn't it make sense for him to stand down sometime during the next term, and start flying kites for a presidential run?

:eek:

My name is URL

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Adams did not choose the time of the meeting. He offered to meet 5 weeks ago. A few days back he/his lawyer was contacted and he was asked to come in and meet them (otherwise he would become wanted and they'd arrest him).

Has that been confirmed? I'm not doubting you but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

Adams was not happy with the timing and felt that it was designed to damage the election campaign. He was led to believe that he would be interviewed "under caution" and not actually arrested. He was also led to believe that he would not be held overnight never mind more than two days.(ie he could go home and come back the next day or whenever they wanted to meet again).

If he believed he could be interviewed under caution, as a suspect in a murder investigation, then frankly he needs better legal advice! 'Arrest' is just an ambiguous word in these things anyway.. it gives police more time and access to ascertain truths. I doubt that anyone, Gerry included, would have thought that he could just pop-in for a friendly casual chat with police and clear his name in a few hours.

alaimacerc

bumper234 wrote: »

[...]the facts that there is a very good chance he was involved with or at least had knowledge of this murder.

We don't know if those are the "facts". We don't know what the "chances" are. But what's harder to argue against is that allegations have been made, and that if the police weren't to investigate them, it would very much smack of some people being politically untouchable.

Maphisto

alaimacerc wrote: »

That's likely overstating matters. He's hardly likely to insist that he be interviewed at a particular time, without prior request from or agreement with the PSNI. ("Sorry, we're on our holidays!") But clearly he's had some degree of input and arrangement into matters.

Yes I put it clumsily but I think we agree fundamentally - no point turning up on Good Friday "Sorry Gerry the Super is in Megalluf with the Mrs"

bumper234

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Adams did not choose the time of the meeting. He offered to meet 5 weeks ago. A few days back he/his lawyer was contacted and he was asked to come in and meet them (otherwise he would become wanted and they'd arrest him). Adams was not happy with the timing and felt that it was designed to damage the election campaign. He was led to believe that he would be interviewed "under caution" and not actually arrested. He was also led to believe that he would not be held overnight never mind more than two days.(ie he could go home and come back the next day or whenever they wanted to meet again).

Who told you this?

sillyoulfool

Banjo String wrote: »

Disappointed with the Psni. We had so much hope for a new and impartial police service, same old same old.

Disappointed that they are investigating a murder?
Surely impartial means that they investigate all suspects regardless of who those suspects are.

kingchess

anyone heard the saying "let justice be done though the heavens fall"???

Tramps Like Us

My name is URL wrote: »

Has that been confirmed? I'm not doubting you but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.



If he believed he could be interviewed under caution, as a suspect in a murder investigation, then frankly he needs better legal advice! 'Arrest' is just an ambiguous word in these things anyway.. it gives police more time and access to ascertain truths. I doubt that anyone, Gerry included, would have thought that he could just pop-in for a friendly casual chat with police and clear his name in a few hours.

Yeah, see the various interviews with Mary Lou as well as the various statements Adams and SF issued

Banjo String

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Disappointed that they are investigating a murder?
Surely impartial means that they investigate all suspects regardless of who those suspects are.

You could have quoted the rest of my post so as that comment couldn't be taken out of context.

The PSNI (let's be honest) didn't really need another 48hrs to question a 65year old man (a pensioner), president of SF, and TD.


He was hardly going to hotfoot it to Cuba, or hijack a taxi and head for Bundoran?


By disappointed I mean by if they have succumbed to pressure from some to hold the leader of Sinn Fein, right in the middle of an election campaign, a campaign that they (SF) are doing exceptionally well in according to the polls.

Oh, this includes both jurisdictions.

He signalled to them more than 5 weeks ago that he was willing to make himself available whenever and wherever they wanted.

I think there may be turmoil on the streets of Belfast tonight. Though I hope not.

Santa Cruz

RandomName2 wrote: »

I am massively suspicious myself. Slap bang between a referendum and a general election, and only a few weeks from being half-way between summer and winter! Coincidence?

Not to mention the proximity to the Summer Solstice. I can see the murky hands of the Druids here

bumper234

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Yeah, see the various interviews with Mary Lou as well as the various statements Adams and SF issued

Oh wow those are some really independent impartial sources you have there.

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

We had so much hope for a new and impartial police service, same old same old.

The problem with suggesting this is the same as the bad old days with the RUC is that some of us, who can see quite plainly what's happening here with GA, might think the bad old days weren't so bad after all.

I.e. if this is the same as the bad days ... and this is nothing .... then .....:pac:


tl;dr version? Stop being silly!

Santa Cruz

Banjo String wrote: »

You could have quoted the rest of my post so as that comment couldn't be taken out of context.

The PSNI (let's be honest) didn't really need another 48hrs to question a 65year old man (a pensioner), president of SF, and TD.


He was hardly going to hotfoot it to Cuba, or hijack a taxi and head for Bundoran?


By disappointed I mean by if they have succumbed to pressure from some to hold the leader of Sinn Fein, right in the middle of an election campaign, a campaign that they (SF) are doing exceptionally well in according to the polls.

Oh, this includes both jurisdictions.

He signalled to them more than 5 weeks ago that he was willing to make himself available whenever and wherever they wanted.

I think there may be turmoil on the streets of Belfast tonight. Though I hope not.

And still no investigation of the killing of Cock Robin even though the sparrow has admitted it

bumper234

Banjo String wrote: »

You could have quoted the rest of my post so as that comment couldn't be taken out of context.

The PSNI (let's be honest) didn't really need another 48hrs to question a 65year old man (a pensioner), president of SF, and TD.


He was hardly going to hotfoot it to Cuba, or hijack a taxi and head for Bundoran?


By disappointed I mean by if they have succumbed to pressure from some to hold the leader of Sinn Fein, right in the middle of an election campaign, a campaign that they (SF) are doing exceptionally well in according to the polls.

Oh, this includes both jurisdictions.

He signalled to them more than 5 weeks ago that he was willing to make himself available whenever and wherever they wanted.

I think there may be turmoil on the streets of Belfast tonight. Though I hope not.

But they obviously do need that time to talk to a suspect in the cold blooded murder of a mother of ten.

See how being emotive can work both ways