breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

alaimacerc

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

He urged republicans to remain calm if that happened.
He urged republicans to remain calm until that happened.

Isn't if and until two completely different situations?

I think the intent is the same, and fairly clear. If you try to super-qualify everything you say to be strictly precise ("at such time and in the eventuality that...") people glaze over before you're done, and some muppet still will cast up.

I know whereof I speak in this respect.

Maphisto

Banjo String wrote: »

You could have quoted the rest of my post so as that comment couldn't be taken out of context.

The PSNI (let's be honest) didn't really need another 48hrs to question a 65year old man (a pensioner), president of SF, and TD.


He was hardly going to hotfoot it to Cuba, or hijack a taxi and head for Bundoran?


By disappointed I mean by if they have succumbed to pressure from some to hold the leader of Sinn Fein, right in the middle of an election campaign, a campaign that they (SF) are doing exceptionally well in according to the polls.

Oh, this includes both jurisdictions.

He signalled to them more than 5 weeks ago that he was willing to make himself available whenever and wherever they wanted.

I think there may be turmoil on the streets of Belfast tonight. Though I hope not.

I don't believe that his continued detention is because he is considered a flight risk. I have no way of knowing, but I know the way these types of interviews go. Evidence and allegations will be put to him - he will come up with explanations. Those explanations need to be examined and checked out. This was all a long time ago and that could take some time. I would suggest that sending him home while stuff is checked would see this drag on for years which nobody wants.

The timing has been argued out a couple of posts above but the only person who could have complete control asto when he was interviewed was Gerry himself.

Tramps Like Us

bumper234 wrote: »

Oh wow those are some really independent impartial sources you have there.

stick to sky news and the daily mail then so

bumper234

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

stick to sky news and the daily mail then so

Have never read the daily mail in my life but don't let minor facts get in the way of your rabble rabble rabble.

alaimacerc

Worksforyou wrote: »

I haven't read this whole thread but a number of the same posters that were involved in the Enda Kenny inviting the British queen to 2016 thread have posted in support of Gerry being arrested here, while saying we should move on when talking about crimes committed by British forces in the other thread.
They can't have it both ways.

*groan* Are you here to get this thread shut down too, by off-topic spamming, putting words in people's mouth, and throwing random slurs?

I think you're the one wanting to have it both ways. Or more precisely, you're wanting to transpose every discussion into one about Bloody Sunday, and refuse to countenance anyone discussing anything else until you get an answer you like. Invite a minor royal as British rep to the '16 commemorations? Investigate other murder allegations? Nooooooooo.

Worksforyou

alaimacerc wrote: »

*groan* Are you here to get this thread shut down too, by off-topic spamming, putting words in people's mouth, and throwing random slurs?

I think you're the one wanting to have it both ways. Or more precisely, you're wanting to transpose every discussion into one about Bloody Sunday, and refuse to countenance anyone discussing anything else until you get an answer you like. Invite a minor royal as British rep to the '16 commemorations? Investigate other murder allegations? Nooooooooo.

I'm just repeating on this thread what the 'move on' crowd were saying on that other thread. Bad things were done on all sides so we can't be looking for retribution if we want peace. You agreed with it then so why not now?

alaimacerc

Karl Stein wrote: »

I think it's possible that this has been orchestrated in some way to be convenient to some actors - I have no idea if it is indeed a conspiracy but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it were.

Well, sure it's possible that it's a political stitchup. Normal for Norn Irn, etc. But how likely and how credible is it? Unless you have an entire rogue unit within the PSNI, who're either operating completely under the radar of their superiors, or the entire chain of command is in on it, there would surely be "briefing against" this from within the police themselves. Not quite such a closed shop as it used to be, surely most would acknowledge (to a greater or lesser degree).

A lot of the rhetoric around here seems to take it as axiomatic that it's all attempted political sabotage. Everyone's entitled to their suspicions, but let's be keeping them at least vaguely proportionate.

Arthur Beesley

A pensioner is it? He gets around a fair bit for a pensioner. Out of curiously, what pension is he is receipt of?

sillyoulfool

Worksforyou wrote: »

I haven't read this whole thread but a number of the same posters that were involved in the Enda Kenny inviting the British queen to 2016 thread have posted in support of Gerry being arrested here, while saying we should move on when talking about crimes committed by British forces in the other thread.
They can't have it both ways.

Who is looking for it both ways, Gerry Adams is being questioned , fair enough.
If, and its a bloody big IF, he ware to be convicted he would benefit from the GFA.
The same applies to all those convicted for offences committed before the GFA, including the individual arrested earlier this week for questioning in relation to the bombing of McGuirks Bar.

alaimacerc

Worksforyou wrote: »

I'm just repeating on this thread what the 'move on' crowd were saying on that other thread.

No, you repeated what you said "they" were saying. (And you failed to ever define what "move on crowd" meant.)

Bad things were done on all sides so we can't be looking for retribution if we want peace. You agreed with it then so why not now?

You can look for justice for the victims of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy and the McConville killing without looking for "retribution". You can look for it without saying "... and by which I mean, get the precise set of outcomes I'm looking for, otherwise no quid pro quo in [massive list of other topics]".

I know they say "nothing's agreed until it's all agreed", but you can't really barter inquest verdicts for murder interviews. Well, not unless your name ends in "Putin" or "Al-Assad", etc.

Karl Stein

alaimacerc wrote: »

A lot of the rhetoric around here seems to take it as axiomatic that it's all attempted political sabotage.

I guess conspiracies, by their very nature, are hard to prove or disprove. I personally think the timing points to a well thought out plan. Either the aforementioned or the timing of the arrest is unusually fortuitous.

That said, if indeed the timing was politically motivated I think it won't have the effect that the would-be orchestrator(s) might have desired.

Worksforyou

alaimacerc wrote: »

No, you repeated what you said "they" were saying. (And you failed to ever define what "move on crowd" meant.)



You can look for justice for the victims of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy and the McConville killing without looking for "retribution". You can look for it without saying "... and by which I mean, get the precise set of outcomes I'm looking for, otherwise no quid pro quo in [massive list of other topics]".

I know they say "nothing's agreed until it's all agreed", but you can't really barter inquest verdicts for murder interviews. Well, not unless your name ends in "Putin" or "Al-Assad", etc.

No, it's what they said.

I'm not the one who came up with the retribution excuse. That was the 'move on' crowd. I've already said in this thread that Adams should see justice so what exactly do you disagree with me with?

alaimacerc

Red Pepper wrote: »

FF lost 57 seats in 2011. SF could only grab 10 of them. I would have thought SF would be a more natural transfer from FF (to be open, I hate both parties) but instead 47 seats went to FG, Lab, IND.

I'd love to see a detailed analysis between transfer patterns and "swings" between SF and FF, because I keep seeing what seem to be wildly inconsistent -- or at least, very patchy and lumpy -- claims about this.

I think the main complication is how incoherent FF's support is. (Not to say that SF are a wonder of political coherence, despite how orchestrated their online presence often seems to be.) Some FF supporters see themselves as their "Republican core" -- and even those seem to vary hugely, with some seeing SF as treacherous splitters, and some as natural like-thinkers. Some fancy themselves as socialists, some as capitalists, some are just for God, FF and Ireland. Quite a few just really hate FG -- others wander like goldfish-like between the two, with little apparent self-awareness of the supposed "tribal" preclusion of doing so.

delthedriver

Ca bhfuil Nodin?


It would be interesting to get Nodin's views on developments over the past 24hours.


Before someone starts shouting at me. I am not trying to be smart, just I recognise Nodin as a regular contributor to this Forum.


I may not agree with Nodin, nonetheless I respect her views.

My name is URL

Aidric wrote: »

That's not in doubt. It's the timing that seems to be the sticking point. I'm no SF apologist but if this is a divisive political stunt then it stinks.

If it is that, then it does stink. I just think people (on both sides) are assuming that to be the case very prematurely.

Is it any wonder young people are disillusioned with politics when strokes like this are possibly being pulled? There are so many angles on this story that the conspiracy theorists must have the pants round the ankles.

If there's one thing I've learned about the Irish electorate in my years here, it's that most of 'em love a good stroke :pac:

Bongalongherb

Well, to be granted another 48 hours to hold Gerry, they must have something on him to especially convince the judge to give this extra time. But if they don't at the end of the 48 hours, the PSNI are going to look like a right arse.

Nodin

delthedriver wrote: »

Ca bhfuil Nodin?


It would be interesting to get Nodin's views on developments over the past 24hours.


Before someone starts shouting at me. I am not trying to be smart, just I recognise Nodin as a regular contributor to this Forum.


I may not agree with Nodin, nonetheless I respect her views.

I'm female now? Christ help us all.

delthedriver

Nodin wrote: »

I'm female now? Christ help us all.

Sorry Nodin. It has been a long day!!


d

My name is URL

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Well, to be granted another 48 hours to hold Jerry, they must have something on him

Or nothing

to especially convince the judge to give this extra time.

They only need to ask for more time and put forward a case for needing more time. They don't need to show that they either have enough evidence to warrant an extension, or require more time to get enough evidence to go ahead.

delthedriver

Nodin????

Bongalongherb

My name is URL wrote: »

Or nothing



They only need to ask for more time and put forward a case for needing more time. They don't need to show that they either have enough evidence to warrant an extension, or require more time to get enough evidence to go ahead.

I thought the judge needed something solid to hold him again for the extended period.

My name is URL

Bongalongherb wrote: »

I thought the judge needed something solid to hold him again for the extended period.

They do, but something solid becomes somewhat softer for people being held under the terrorism act.

Really, all police have to do is show a judge that they need more time. Adams' evidence or statements so far probably don't even come into it.

.jacksparrow.

INTERNATIONAL pressure is growing for the release of Gerry Adams following his politically-motivated arrest by the PSNI.
Greece - Protesters from the SYRIZA political coalition, the second-largest political group in the Greek parliament, demonstrated outside the British Embassy in Athens where party leader and candidate for President of the EU Commission, Alexis Tsipras, called for the immediate and unconditional release of the imprisoned TD.
USA - Congressman Peter King told NBC News that the political implications of Gerry Adams' arrest will cause growing tension in the North. He added that he has known Gerry Adams for 30 years and described him as "always truthful" and "more instrumental than anyone" in bringing peace to Ireland.
Basque Country - Basque pro-Independence party Sortu, which makes up the Basque Parliament's opposition EH Bildu coalition, described the arrest as an attack on the Peace Process and "an attempt stop the unstoppable advance of republicanism in the whole island of Ireland."
Catalonia - The Young Republican Left of Catalonia (JERC), the youth wing of Esquerra, the second-largest political grouping in Catalonia, described the arrest as "an attempt to discredit him and his political organization, Sinn Fein, in a moment in which the local and European elections seem to be very favorable."
 Italy - Banners calling for the release of Gerry Adams were carried by left-wing demonstrators during the annual May Day march in the city of Milan.

alaimacerc

Karl Stein wrote: »

I guess conspiracies, by their very nature, are hard to prove or disprove. I personally think the timing points to a well thought out plan. Either the aforementioned or the timing of the arrest is unusually fortuitous.

It's a very narrow time window to be "plotting" in. There were eight weeks between Adams writing to them and the elections. How exactly would you parse those -- weeks 1-4 perfectly OK, weeks 5-8 political plot, weeks 9+ best of all? Wouldn't week 7 1/2 been the best time for an "October surprise", given the relatively short timescale? What would you imagine a "normal" delay in preparing for an interview of this sort of importance be?

I think that if "dark forces" are really at work, there will be a formal complaint, an internal investigation, and it's almost bound to come out in some form (officially or otherwise). I'm picturing Adrian Dunbar yelling like the wrath of god at some flunky to the general effect that if this goes sideways, it's career suicide for all of them...

That said, if indeed the timing was politically motivated I think it won't have the effect that the would-be orchestrator(s) might have desired.

That's doubly speculative!

My guess is that it'll have a "hardening up" effect. People thinking of giving SF a middling transfer will likely be less likely to do so. People in their "base" apathetic about voting, or considering giving their #1 a holiday elsewhere will probably vote SF in larger numbers. It'll probably have a effect that's more favourable to SF at the margins in the North, and more detrimental at the margins in the Republic. (Regardless of "intent".)

alaimacerc

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

INTERNATIONAL pressure is growing for the release of Gerry Adams following his politically-motivated arrest by the PSNI.

An PhobLOL.

Busted Flat.

Bongalongherb wrote: »

I thought the judge needed something solid to hold him again for the extended period.

I the six counties, with the RUC/PSNI, you got to be joking. Not trying to be smart. You can change the name, but the tactics stays the same.

alaimacerc

My name is URL wrote: »

They do, but something solid becomes somewhat softer for people being held under the terrorism act.

Is this requirement actually any different? I thought the main difference was the maximum time limit.

Really, all police have to do is show a judge that they need more time. Adams' evidence or statements so far probably don't even come into it.

Surely they come into it to at least the extent that the police have to argue that he's not yet "cleared up" everything they wanted to put to him. There's a timeliness clause in the legislation, so they can't just be rolling into court and saying "sure now judge, you can't be rushing an interrogation this good".

Bongalongherb

(Reuters) - In the bars of South Boston, Irish-Americans reacted with shock on Thursday to the news that Gerry Adams, a man some regard as a hero for his role in the peace process, had been arrested in Northern Ireland in connection with a murder committed 42 years ago.

Some were worried that Adams' arrest would cause trouble back in Ireland and expressed anger that the U.S. government had cleared the way for the release of a trove of documents by Boston College researchers that may have paved the way for the arrest.

Boston college researchers ? first time I heard of this scenario. "May Have" but no solid truth that this is the case.

Zubeneschamali

Bongalongherb wrote: »

(Reuters) - In the bars of South Boston, Irish-Americans reacted with shock on Thursday to the news that Gerry Adams, a man some regard as a hero for his role in the peace process

while still more regard him as a hero for his role in fighting the Queen in a bareknuckle bout in Belfast, 1972...

Bongalongherb

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I the six counties, with the RUC/PSNI, you got to be joking. Not trying to be smart. You can change the name, but the tactics stays the same.

Maybe I'm a bit slow or something, but can you clarify this part above for me, as I do not understand it's meaning... Thanks.