breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

alaimacerc · 03-05-2014 12:10am

wazky wrote: »

No they are not, they are part of the establishment within Northern Ireland now, they have no real desire anymore to end partition.

I imagine they have a desire to end partition, but does anyone find their "strategy" persuasive? Far from being effective "persuaders of Unionism", opinion polling suggests that they've managed to fail to convince significant numbers of their own voters (and more SDLP voters still) that a united Ireland's something they'd actually chose if there were a "border poll" tomorrow.

Of course, those critiquing them for being "insufficiently Republican" would worsen this problem, rather than in any way addressing it.

William F · 03-05-2014 12:11am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Martin McGuinness is effectively threatening to pull out of the peace process if this doesn't go Gerry's way.

That, right there, is political policing.

It's Martin McGuinness's fault that Gerry Adams is in custody now?

alaimacerc · 03-05-2014 12:13am

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

No he's not. He's saying that given what has happened SF may have to reevaluate their support of the PSNI and who can blame them

Well, anyone that supports the peace process can, for starters. It's not quite "pulling out" of the GF process, but it's most certainly rolling back on it. I think the "threatening" parts stands without qualification.

wazky · 03-05-2014 12:15am

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Em...ok.

Do you disagree?

Fratton Fred · 03-05-2014 12:22am

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Explain why you disagree ?

Do you really believe anyone wants the troubles to kick off again, other than a few hard line republicans.

So far we've had the excuse of old RUC elements in the PSNI.

We've also had the excuse that Cameron is worried Sinn Fein might win a few seats in the eu elections.

Now it's because the British are worried about SF being the biggest threat to partition.

There's also the possibility that Gerry Adams was actually involved in the murder and evidence has surfaced that can't be ignored. How would that work if the PSNI blatently ignored compelling evidence?

Does anyone really believe that Villiers or Cameron hasn't already phoned Matt Baggot and told him that he had better be 100% certain about this? The ramifications are huge, the PSNI are not going to be taking this action lightly.

William F · 03-05-2014 12:26am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you really believe anyone wants the troubles to kick off again, other than a few hard line republicans.

So far we've had the excuse of old RUC elements in the PSNI.

We've also had the excuse that Cameron is worried Sinn Fein might win a few seats in the eu elections.

Now it's because the British are worried about SF being the biggest threat to partition.

There's also the possibility that Gerry Adams was actually involved in the murder and evidence has surfaced that can't be ignored. How would that work if the PSNI blatently ignored compelling evidence?

Does anyone really believe that Villiers or Cameron hasn't already phoned Matt Baggot and told him that he had better be 100% certain about this? The ramifications are huge, the PSNI are not going to be taking this action lightly.

It's a multitude of things but at the heart of it is the crisis of the United Kingdom falling apart.

guinnessdrinker · 03-05-2014 12:27am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you really believe anyone wants the troubles to kick off again, other than a few hard line republicans.

In fairness the vast majority of violence in NI during the last 18 months has come from hard line loyalists I would have thought?

Tramps Like Us · 03-05-2014 12:27am

Worth watching. Hopefully it well get across to some here the seriousness of the situation

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-05-2014 12:28am

William F wrote: »

It's a multitude of things but at the heart of it is the crisis of the United Kingdom falling apart.

mother of jaysus:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred · 03-05-2014 12:30am

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

In fairness the vast majority of violence in NI during the last 18 months has come from hard line loyalists I would have thought?

That's just mindless thugs being mindless thugs. It is dissident republicans that are attempting to continue an actual armed campaign.

wazky · 03-05-2014 12:33am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's just mindless thugs being mindless thugs. It is dissident republicans that are attempting to continue an actual armed campaign.

Do you really think that the violence wasn't orchestrated by loyalist gangs?.

Then, Unionist politicians refusal to denounce the violence was plain stupid and dangerous.

William F · 03-05-2014 12:35am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

mother of jaysus:rolleyes:

A worst case scenario for the Scottish referendum in September would be for Scotland to exit the Union and Ireland to follow suit.

Perhaps your just too stupid to realize that?

Phoebas · 03-05-2014 12:38am

William F wrote: »

A worst case scenario for the Scottish referendum in September would be for Scotland to exit the Union and Ireland to follow suit.

Perhaps your just too stupid to realize that?

Under what mechanism does 'Ireland follow suit'?

William F · 03-05-2014 12:40am

Phoebas wrote: »

Under what mechanism does 'Ireland follow suit'?

By Sinn Fein holding a dual mandate (again worst case scenario).

Godge · 03-05-2014 12:46am

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Worth watching. Hopefully it well get across to some here the seriousness of the situation

Watched it. Yes, it did get across to me the seriousness of the situation.

The naked attempt by McGuinness to interfere in the police work was a clear threat to our democracy.

Threats to withdraw support for the police because one of his own had been arrested is something you would expect in a mafia-run society or a corrupt African country. It is quite incredible what McGuinness was saying.

The onus is now on Gerry Adams to tell all he knows about the killing of Jean McConville. Hopefully arrests and convictions will result as it is now clear that there are some SF supporters who know what happened and it is up to them (including Mr. Adams) to tell the police what they know.

Our democracy hangs on a knife-edge similar to 1929. In that case, FF left the guns behind and supported the new State. A similar test now faces Sinn Fein. Support the police and find the killers of Jean McConville and SF will have passed the first real test of becoming a democratic-only party. Withdraw support for the police and stonewall and refuse to co-operate with the police and we will know that one leopard has not changed its spots.

Phoebas · 03-05-2014 12:48am

William F wrote: »

By Sinn Fein holding a dual mandate (again worst case scenario).

A dual mandate for what?
Northern Ireland won't leave the union without the majority of people in N.I. agreeing to it.
Neither the outcome of the Scottish referendum nor SF magically having some kind of 'dual mandate' (whatever you mean by that) provide a way for N.I. to exit the union.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-05-2014 12:48am

William F wrote: »

By Sinn Fein holding a dual mandate (again worst case scenario).

what planet are you on?

William F · 03-05-2014 12:49am

Godge wrote: »

Watched it. Yes, it did get across to me the seriousness of the situation.

The naked attempt by McGuinness to interfere in the police work was a clear threat to our democracy.

The only clear threat to democracy which I can see is a police force with a political motive.

theKillerBite · 03-05-2014 12:49am

William F wrote: »

A worst case scenario for the Scottish referendum in September would be for Scotland to exit the Union and Ireland to follow suit.

Perhaps your just too stupid to realize that?

Best case scenario, Gerry gets taken by the boiler suit men and flung into a shallow bog hole along with buddy Martin

Fred Swanson · 03-05-2014 12:50am

This post has been deleted.

William F · 03-05-2014 12:51am

Phoebas wrote: »

A dual mandate for what?
Northern Ireland won't leave the union without the majority of people in N.I. agreeing to it.
Neither the outcome of the Scottish referendum nor SF magically having some kind of 'dual mandate' (whatever you mean by that) provide a way for N.I. to exit the union.

So you think a border poll and Scotland leaving the Union wouldn't influence moderate Unionists decision to follow suit considering a large portion of them claim descent from Scotland?

Come off it

Godge · 03-05-2014 12:52am

William F wrote: »

The only clear threat to democracy which I can see is a police force with a political objective.

That press conference will come back to haunt McGuinness and his cronies.

Phoebas · 03-05-2014 12:53am

William F wrote: »

So you think a border poll and Scotland leaving the Union wouldn't influence moderate Unionists decision to follow suit considering a large portion of them claim descent from Scotland?

Come off it

You have an 'interesting' perspective - I'll give you that!

alaimacerc · 03-05-2014 12:57am

Phoebas wrote: »

You have an 'interesting' perspective - I'll give you that!

I'm thinking it might be through the bottom of a bottle at this stage, mind. Have we adjourned from "After Hours" to "Cheeky Lock In"?

Karl Stein · 03-05-2014 12:57am

Godge wrote: »

Threats to withdraw support for the police because one of his own had been arrested is something you would expect in a mafia-run society or a corrupt African country. It is quite incredible what McGuinness was saying.

Oh look, it's Jim Allister's little apprentice boy.

What happens in corrupt societies, like the one that allowed its police force and army to murder innocent people, is that justice gets applied unequally. McGuiness is simply pointing out an uncomfortable truth to the likes of you.

alaimacerc · 03-05-2014 12:59am

William F wrote: »

So you think a border poll and Scotland leaving the Union wouldn't influence moderate Unionists decision to follow suit considering a large portion of them claim descent from Scotland?

Come off it

"Following suit" would imply NI independence as a "statelet", rather than unification. There's a few in the North that have toyed with that, but it's hardly a flier.

Tramps Like Us · 03-05-2014 1:05am

Some sensible commentary:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/02/gerry-adams-jean-mcconville-south-africa-painful-compromise

RandomName2 · 03-05-2014 1:08am

Karl Stein wrote: »

What happens in corrupt societies, like the one that allowed its police force and army to murder innocent people, is that justice gets applied unequally. McGuiness is simply pointing out an uncomfortable truth to the likes of you.

Spot the difference>

McGuiness: "We fully back the PSNI."

*Adams arrested*

McGuiness: "The PSNI is a corrupt cabal with a political agenda, and was responsible for Bloody Sunday, terrorist attacks, death mobs and the utter extirpation of the Catholics of Ireland!"

R P McMurphy · 03-05-2014 1:10am

Godge wrote: »

Watched it. Yes, it did get across to me the seriousness of the situation.

The naked attempt by McGuinness to interfere in the police work was a clear threat to our democracy.

Threats to withdraw support for the police because one of his own had been arrested is something you would expect in a mafia-run society or a corrupt African country. It is quite incredible what McGuinness was saying.

The onus is now on Gerry Adams to tell all he knows about the killing of Jean McConville. Hopefully arrests and convictions will result as it is now clear that there are some SF supporters who know what happened and it is up to them (including Mr. Adams) to tell the police what they know.

Our democracy hangs on a knife-edge similar to 1929. In that case, FF left the guns behind and supported the new State. A similar test now faces Sinn Fein. Support the police and find the killers of Jean McConville and SF will have passed the first real test of becoming a democratic-only party. Withdraw support for the police and stonewall and refuse to co-operate with the police and we will know that one leopard has not changed its spots.

The onus will be on the PSNI to have a compelling reason for arresting and more to the point subsequently extending the detention of a central political figure. If it is not adequate then it will seriously undermine them. The stakes are a lot higher after today. Sunday should be interesting

Karl Stein · 03-05-2014 1:15am

RandomName2 wrote: »

McGuiness: "We fully back the PSNI."

McGuiness said they'd fully back the PSNI unconditionally is it?

Please try to keep the discussion in the real world.

McGuiness: "The PSNI is a corrupt cabal with a political agenda, and was responsible for Bloody Sunday, terrorist attacks, death mobs and the utter extirpation of the Catholics of Ireland!"

I think that just might be the stupidest strawman I've ever read on boards.ie.

Congratualtions, you've won a box of crayons and a colouring book that will keep you entertained for months.

breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

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