breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

Dan_Solo

Banjo String wrote: »

Remind me who was in opposition screaming at FF and the greens that they weren't spending enough?????

Whatever tweaking the public service needed was an irrelevance compared to the bak guarantee. Why anybody fell for FFs lies over that and voted for it is a mystery, though FG seem to be pretty well FFs twin so it's not a surprise in their case.

Gatling

Dan_Solo wrote: »

http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy
So, anything other than "their economic policy sucks"? No specifics?

Jayus they can't even spell British correctly ,

Last Sf TD I talked to was promoting the ideal of wealth redistribution ,
Like that actually works ,Robert Mugabe schools of politics idea ,

R P McMurphy

Gatling wrote: »

Jayus they can't even spell British correctly ,

Last Sf TD I talked to was promoting the ideal of wealth redistribution ,
Like that actually works ,Robert Mugabe schools of politics idea ,

Which sf td was that

Dan_Solo

Gatling wrote: »

Last Sf TD I talked to was promoting the ideal of wealth redistribution ,
Like that actually works ,Robert Mugabe schools of politics idea ,

LOL. So what's free market liberal economics then, Somalia?
What's wrong with wealth redistribution anyway? You think wealth in Ireland is distributed fairly?

alaimacerc

Banjo String wrote: »

There has been worldwide outrage alright, ranging from congressmen in the USA to students in catalonia.

If by "worldwide" you mean "very sparse spacing between consecutive people who think the police shouldn't investigate murders other than on a timetable envisaged by the suspects", then yes, that's exactly what we're seeing.

The fact that there has been no mass protest yet is testament to the Sinn Fein leadership.

That's a lovely little dilemma you imagine have us on the horns of, there. Any amount of reaction can be explained by the cofactors of the vast outrage at this monstrous development, and the immense, Gandhi-like powers of calming restraint of SF politicos.

A Dub in Glasgo

Gatling wrote: »

Jayus they can't even spell British correctly ,

Last Sf TD I talked to was promoting the ideal of wealth redistribution ,
Like that actually works ,Robert Mugabe schools of politics idea ,

A guy who complains about spelling then posts the above

Happyman42

Gatling wrote: »

Jayus they can't even spell British correctly ,

Last Sf TD I talked to was promoting the ideal of wealth redistribution ,
Like that actually works ,Robert Mugabe schools of politics idea ,

The person who wrote the above is criticising a few spelling mistakes on a website? :rolleyes:

alaimacerc

Gatling wrote: »

Last Sf TD I talked to was promoting the ideal of wealth redistribution ,

If only!

Ireland badly needs some wealth redistribution -- not like most Western countries, indeed. It's hard not to think that SF aren't more concerned with "redistributing" Labour and FF votes than any meaningful programme of social change, though.

Iwasfrozen

Happyman42 wrote: »

The person who wrote the above is criticising a few spelling mistakes on a website? :rolleyes:

Are you comparing a post on boards.ie to a supposedly professional party website? I think you are!

Gatling

In oulde English then know thy enemy
( even it its just spelling there name )

theKillerBite

Dan_Solo wrote: »

http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy
So, anything other than "their economic policy sucks"? No specifics?

Amongst our proposals are the introduction of a third rate of income tax of 48% on income over €100,000, the introduction of a 1% wealth tax on assets valued at over €1 million, the standardisation of all discretionary tax reliefs, the capping of public sector salaries at €100,000, increases of 10% in both Capital Gains and Capital Acquisitions taxes, and a cut in the salaries of government Ministers, TD's and Senators. We completely oppose the introduction of the property tax and water charges.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

A 3rd rate of tax would bring the marginal tax rate for people earning over €100k to 62%. How does that incentivise anybody to go out and do well for themselves, start a small business and start employing people?? Also people earning over €100k already pay 71% of the total tax take in Ireland.http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Comment/Opinion/COMMENT%3A+The+truth+about+who+pays+the+most+tax/id/89127228-1885-0859-7099-237509443604

guinnessdrinker

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Are you comparing a post on boards.ie to a supposedly professional party website? I think you are!

I think he was talking about the irony of a person pointing out spelling mistakes on a website by using poor spelling in his own post.

Iwasfrozen

Gatling wrote: »

In oulde English then know thy enemy
( even it its just spelling there name )

Nah brother botching the English language is just another was SF have of sticking it to the colonial oppressor.

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I think he was talking about the irony of a person pointing out spelling mistakes on a website by using poor spelling in his own post.

I get where you're coming from but this is a much less formal medium. I expect spelling mistakes here.

Gatling

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I think he was talking about the irony of a person pointing out spelling mistakes on a website by using poor spelling in his own post.

What was spelt poorly exactly

whitebriar

Dan_Solo wrote: »

LOL. So what's free market liberal economics then, Somalia?
What's wrong with wealth redistribution anyway? You think wealth in Ireland is distributed fairly?

what's wrong with wealth redistribution is most wealth is earned by the skill of the person earning it.
Why should that skilled person bother with their efforts if the fruits of their efforts are just going to be taken off them?
You'd then have no incentive to create wealth and ergo no investment in things that trickle money down to people employed by that investment.
You'd also kill off the cleverest most innovative people in society's incentive to take part in this economy...leaving us with not much going on and a lot bigger percentage of frankly lazy people looking for more hand outs from an ever decreasing pool.
A disaster basically.

Iwasfrozen

whitebriar wrote: »

what's wrong with wealth redistribution is most wealth is earned by the skill of the person earning it.
Why should that skilled person bother with their efforts if the fruits of their efforts are just going to be taken off them?
You'd then have no incentive to create wealth and ergo no investment in things that trickle money down to people employed by that investment.
You'd also kill off the cleverest most innovative people in society's incentive to take part in this economy...leaving us with not much going on and a lot bigger percentage of frankly lazy people looking for more hand outs from an ever decreasing pool.
A disaster basically.

If that's the case why is there a negative correlation between gini coefficient and gdp per capita?

Dan_Solo

theKillerBite wrote: »

A 3rd rate of tax would bring the marginal tax rate for people earning over €100k to 62%. How does that incentivise anybody to go out and do well for themselves, start a small business and start employing people?? Also people earning over €100k already pay 71% of the total tax take in Ireland.http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Comment/Opinion/COMMENT%3A+The+truth+about+who+pays+the+most+tax/id/89127228-1885-0859-7099-237509443604

The policy says pretty clearly it's applied to the bit >100,000, not the rate for the whole salary. People will still get more take home if the earn more. They same case could be made for any progressive taxation, that it is a disincentive.
I bet you're not against the 100,000 public sector salary cap though...

whitebriar

I'm sorry I'm neither clever enough or wealthy so I can't answer that.

alaimacerc

Banjo String wrote: »

They have commented on the timing of his arrest, and how it could be perceived as politically motivated.

Nope, they've flat-out asserted that it is so. Including their deputy leader.

Which, given the sequence of events since Gerry Adams made contact with the Psni signalling his availability to talk with them over five weeks and his subsequent arrest (at election campaign time) they are totally correct on doing so.

Well, you keep saying that. Is five weeks really some outrageously long period of time in the context of something of this high profile and importance, with such a long timescale historical investigation? The PSNI are supposed to get the letter, look frantically at their watches, drop everything, and check when it's OK? Never mind that Adams did agree to the PSNI's date, for all the blustering complaint about it subsequently.

This is tantamount to saying either on the one hand, that there's a very narrow (though still unspecified) interval of time in which it would have been "acceptable" to question Adams, or on the other, than they're have been a storm of complaints whatever the precise timing.

Dan_Solo

whitebriar wrote: »

what's wrong with wealth redistribution is most wealth is earned by the skill of the person earning it.

You're talking about salary, not wealth. They are very different things.

Iwasfrozen

whitebriar wrote: »

I'm sorry I'm neither clever enough or wealthy so I can't answer that.

Gini coefficient is how equal a countries income is distributed. 0 is perfectly evenly distributed and and 100 is perfectly unevenly distributed.

You see here as gini increases gdp tends to fall.

http://visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2006/01/04/gdp-per-capital-vs-gini-index

theKillerBite

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The policy says pretty clearly it's applied to the bit >100,000, not the rate for the whole salary. People will still get more take home if the earn more. They same case could be made for any progressive taxation, that it is a disincentive.
I bet you're not against the 100,000 public sector salary cap though...

Yes as I said the marginal tax rate would be 62%. It would hardly movtivate anyone to go out and and push themselves when you will only get 38% of your effort into your pocket.

Also, how will Ireland retain the top doctors, professors, scientists etc. when their efforts will be capped by a bunch of numpties. A €100k cap is ludicrous and unworkable.

Karl Stein

whitebriar wrote: »

what's wrong with wealth redistribution is most wealth is earned by the skill of the person earning it.

That's total rubbish. The vast majority of high earners are not entrepreneurs.

Dan_Solo

theKillerBite wrote: »

Also, how will Ireland retain the top doctors, professors, scientists etc. when their efforts will be capped by a bunch of numpties. A €100k cap is ludicrous and unworkable.

The fact is we won't because we can't afford them thanks to FF/FG economic policy. At least SF aren't lying about that.
BTW, doctors are vital but they always COST money where scientists should GENERATE money. You can't really lump them together.

alaimacerc

theKillerBite wrote: »

A 3rd rate of tax would bring the marginal tax rate for people earning over €100k to 62%. How does that incentivise anybody to go out and do well for themselves, start a small business and start employing people??

OMGprogressivetaxation. The humanity. Couldn't possibly think of running the country into the ground, like those notorious basket cases the Nordic countries, infamous bottom of international league tables on everything.

I realize this is such a truism of reactionary population as to be unchallengeable, but what's the actual logic to it? Does anyone actually get up in the morning and think, "well, my marginal rate of tax has gone up but 10%, so rather than trying to earn another 10K and paying 5K in tax, faced with paying 6K, I might as well go back to bed and optimise my total taxable income at the lower tax breakpoint". By the same token, why might they not be thinking "wait, I need 5K for the new kitchen, the bastards have put my tax up, I'll have to work a bit harder/longer to earn the extra 1K"?

This is, however, further and further off topic. This isn't supposed to be a SF policy forum (or indeed about the policies of parties whose actual raison d'etre really is economic equity).

Tramps Like Us

Some bedtime reading for the "tall poppy" brigade

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674430006

Can we get back to talking about Adams?

#freethebeard

whitebriar

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You're talking about salary, not wealth. They are very different things.

They are not actually.
Strong income is what grows wealth.wealth is mostly the fruit of the clever enough,incentivised enough persons effort
Income and wealth are inextricably linked

Regarding,taxing above 100,000...personally I think 100k is more than enough for anyone to aspire to as the pinnacle of their earnings.
The trouble is,if 100k is utopia,there would be no extra income earned for a SF led government unless they faced reality and discovered that they'd then have to tax people to the hilt on 80k or lower and then they start losing their incentive and then you'd see things collapse.
Vicious circle really.
No the way to do it is to dictate spending to the most needed areas really and balance the budget.
High taxation or incentive/work ethic killing fruits of your labour confiscation is a road to doom.

alaimacerc

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Some bedtime reading for the "tall poppy" brigade

I'm losing track of the use-mention distinctions myself, now. Are you recommending this to people who:

1. Are tall poppies;
2. Evince "tall poppy syndrome";
3. Or, diagnose TPD in others?

(I guess the smart Daily Show guest would at this point say, "all of the above! everybody go read the book I'm on to plug!")

Lastlight.

Ivor Bell is the tout as they are calling him in West Belfast. If Ivor is going down for her murder, so is Gerry Adams. He is going to get charged.

alaimacerc

nacho libre wrote: »

although if a new leader, a "clean skin", does emerge, a move to the center would be a wise move.

FF Nua territory, one might say?