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breaking: Gerry Adams Arrested in connection to McConville - MOD WARNING First Post

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    #2132
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    B_Rabbit wrote: »
    Fairly sure she was informing. She was also warned several times by the IRA.

    You see: this is where IRA propaganda falls down badly.

    If you are going to take someone out and murder them: say they were the guilty party, that it was an act of war, etc.

    I mean, if you lie about it for years, saying that you had no involvement, and then retrospectively say that she was an informant, even if that is true doesn't it lose some of its meaning if you were clearly so ashamed of your actions you couldn't admit to it in the first place?


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    #2133
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,192 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Damages were awarded to the family by the MOD on 7 May 2002, as part of a Belfast High Court settlement.
    Though since they were active terrorists it defies belief that the family should have been awarded damages at all.
    One wonders when SF will begin paying damages to the families of their innocent victims, they could start with the two Australian tourists they riddled in Roermond in 1990.

    What is with the random wiki links?


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    #2134
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Gatling wrote: »
    And the IRA have stated she wasn't

    Where are you getting this info from:confused:


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    #2135
    wazky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Where are you getting this info from:confused:

    Secret source I'd say, like a voice inside the head.


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    #2136
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    For any Peace process to last, and for a social division to heal, you need a line drawn under the past. If it becomes a porous line - with cases, even dreadfully sad/awful cases being cherry-picked for attention, the divisions resurface and gain traction.

    Unpalatable as it is, there has to be a consensus that what has happened happened. Society decided to move on and take the route of peace, harsh and painful as it may be to let bygones be bygones. Both sides have legitimate grievances, cases that stand out amongst the backdrop of horror and bad times. Both sides need to be big enough to forgive, if not forget. Picking at the corners will ensure the wounds never heal, especially when there are so many corners that could be picked at, on both sides.

    The only real, lasting peace will come when there are no longer two sides, just one side working towards the future. That will be harder to achieve - a good first step is making sure the line in the sand is solid.


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    #2137
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Uriel. wrote: »
    If she wasn't an informer, had there ever been any suggestion as to why she was killed. A murder is a murder is a murder, but this was, by the look of it, a quasi-millitary execution.

    It wasn't a robbery gone wrong, and I highly doubt it was a killing because some just didn't like her.

    The manner of her death (exuction) suggests something major (in the eyes of the IRA) was going on. Has there ever been any suggestions other than her being an informer?

    The IRA said she was an informer and were 'helped' by the Brits who had a policy of neither confirming nor denying whether someone was an informer or not.

    Only in after the Freddie Scappatticci Judicial Review was this policy modified. To re-quote the finding form the Ombudsman's report.......
    There is no evidence information or intelligence of any kind which refers to or emanated from Mrs Jean McConville prior to 2 January 1973. She is not recorded as having been an agent at any time. She was an innocent woman who was abducted and murdered.

    The following reason (such as it is) is offered for her abduction in the same report - it seems it was a combination of factors, rather than one single factor....
    Mrs McConville’s children have a memory of her going to the assistance of an injured soldier whom, they say, was shot before their father died in January 1972. They state that he was moaning on a balcony above the flat in which they lived previously, and that Mrs McConville went to his assistance until help arrived. However it is apparent that people in the area were aware of this event, and it may well have caused suspicion about Mrs McConville who was known to have been a Protestant who had converted to Catholicism on her marriage to a Catholic former member of the British Army.

    She was the wrong woman, in the wrong place at the wrong time.....


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    #2138
    NipNip
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 656 ✭✭✭NipNip


    wazky wrote: »
    sounds like you are hoping for it more than anything else.

    How did you get that impression? Cards on the table, I would like to see SF in government (though they are useful in opposition also). I am worried as to how this whole GA debacle will damage the party. I am less personally worried, but conscious nonetheless, of the implications for peace in the North. You must realise the barely suppressed tensions and none-to-distant memories people have of the Troubles. It's a situation requiring absolute commitment to diplomacy. Perceived antagonism by either side, could be enough to spark a re-ignition of the hostilities between the sides. Just my opinion and open to contradiction obviously.


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    #2139
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    What is with the random wiki links?

    If you cant argue with the facts you post some irrelevant question?
    Does the truth hurt that much?


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    #2140
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    For any Peace process to last, and for a social division to heal, you need a line drawn under the past. If it becomes a porous line - with cases, even dreadfully sad/awful cases being cherry-picked for attention, the divisions resurface and gain traction.

    Unpalatable as it is, there has to be a consensus that what has happened happened. Society decided to move on and take the route of peace, harsh and painful as it may be to let bygones be bygones. Both sides have legitimate grievances, cases that stand out amongst the backdrop of horror and bad times. Both sides need to be big enough to forgive, if not forget. Picking at the corners will ensure the wounds never heal, especially when there are so many corners that could be picked at, on both sides.

    The only real, lasting peace will come when there are no longer two sides, just one side working towards the future. That will be harder to achieve - a good first step is making sure the line in the sand is solid.

    I think that's what most people who voted yes to the Good Friday Agreement believed this to be the case. It is clearly now not. Most people just wanted to move on rather than keep bringing up the past. Everyone can understand where the McConville children are coming from, however it now appears that the detention and questioning of Gerry Adams relates to IRA Membership rather than trying to connect him directly to the McConville case.


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    #2141
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    ellavin wrote: »
    In the news today looking for money for British families that were affected by the ira..... what about money for the lrish who were affected... what about the mother who had her two teenage sons 16 & 22 riddled by the SAS in 1985 in strabane

    You mean the armed members of the IRA who were returning arms to an arms dump? Oh and fyi their families have already been paid by the MOD ;)

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles_in_Strabane


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    #2142
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,192 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    If you cant argue with the facts you post some irrelevant question?
    Does the truth hurt that much?

    You come across very defensive


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    #2143
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You mean the armed members of the IRA who were returning arms to an arms dump? Oh and fyi their families have already been paid by the MOD ;)

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles_in_Strabane

    Yep, money is a great comfort for the loss of a loved one.

    How about some jail time ?


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    #2144
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Yep, money is a great comfort for the loss of a loved one.

    How about some jail time ?

    They were armed, returning weapons to an arms dump and they were shot - why would anyone deserve jail time for that? Especially as the IRA use the word 'war' so often in their rhetoric - that's what happens in war, soldiers ambush each other.......so either don't join up or be better at ambush and counter-ambush operations than the other side........


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    #2145
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Yep, money is a great comfort for the loss of a loved one.

    How about some jail time ?

    Jail time for what? Armed soldiers killed other armed soldiers in a war. Should we jail every soldier who took part in WW2 as well? :confused:


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    #2146
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Why the ministry of defence and Belfast Wikipedia Articles?

    This is what adubinglasgow was questioning.

    Because they are sources of information? Or would you prefer written statements witnessed by the pope and Bill Clinton?


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    #2147
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Jawgap wrote: »
    They were armed, returning weapons to an arms dump and they were shot - why would anyone deserve jail time for that? Especially as the IRA use the word 'war' so often in their rhetoric - that's what happens in war, soldiers ambush each other.......so either don't join up or be better at ambush and counter-ambush operations than the other side........

    Ah so the killings were justified.

    Shoot to kill.

    Both armies should never have killed anyone.


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    #2148
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Damages were awarded to the family by the MOD on 7 May 2002, as part of a Belfast High Court settlement.
    Though since they were active terrorists it defies belief that the family should have been awarded damages at all.
    One wonders when SF will begin paying damages to the families of their innocent victims, they could start with the two Australian tourists they riddled in Roermond in 1990.



    Why the ministry of defence and Belfast Wikipedia Articles?

    This is what adubinglasgow was questioning.
    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    If you cant argue with the facts you post some irrelevant question?
    Does the truth hurt that much?


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    #2149
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    For any Peace process to last, and for a social division to heal, you need a line drawn under the past. If it becomes a porous line - with cases, even dreadfully sad/awful cases being cherry-picked for attention, the divisions resurface and gain traction.

    Unpalatable as it is, there has to be a consensus that what has happened happened. Society decided to move on and take the route of peace, harsh and painful as it may be to let bygones be bygones. Both sides have legitimate grievances, cases that stand out amongst the backdrop of horror and bad times. Both sides need to be big enough to forgive, if not forget. Picking at the corners will ensure the wounds never heal, especially when there are so many corners that could be picked at, on both sides.

    The only real, lasting peace will come when there are no longer two sides, just one side working towards the future. That will be harder to achieve - a good first step is making sure the line in the sand is solid.
    That's easy for you to say. She wasn't your mother.


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    #2150
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's easy for you to say. She wasn't your mother.

    And do the victims of bloody Sunday not have mothers ?


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    #2151
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Yep, money is a great comfort for the loss of a loved one.

    How about some jail time ?

    For killing active terrorists? you must e kidding.


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    #2152
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Because they are sources of information? Or would you prefer written statements witnessed by the pope and Bill Clinton?

    Sources of what information?


    I know where Belfast is, I was born and reared just over twenty miles from it until I was 27. Lived in it when I was a student for four years also. What relevance has a Wikipedia article on the place as a source for anything? Ditto ministry of defence. Why a Wikipedia article about it?

    Sometimes you lot circle the wagons very unnecessarily.


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    #2153
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,192 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    They were armed, returning weapons to an arms dump and they were shot - why would anyone deserve jail time for that? Especially as the IRA use the word 'war' so often in their rhetoric - that's what happens in war, soldiers ambush each other.......so either don't join up or be better at ambush and counter-ambush operations than the other side........
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Jail time for what? Armed soldiers killed other armed soldiers in a war. Should we jail every soldier who took part in WW2 as well? :confused:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90227965&postcount=2074

    Do you have the same view if it was an IRA soldier who killed a British soldier?


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    #2154
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    And do the victims of bloody Sunday not have mothers ?

    They probably did.


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    #2155
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    No member of the British Armed forces should ever go to Jail for killing members of the IRA (whether they are armed or unarmed), it is a war. Before you became a member of the IRA it is made very clear to you that it only ever ends in 2 ways, prison or death.


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    #2156
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    rockatansky wrote: »
    No member of the British Armed forces should ever go to Jail for killing members of the IRA, it is a war. Before you became a member of the IRA it is made very clear to you that it only ever ends in 2 ways, prison or death.

    If the IRA were soldiers why didn't they wear uniforms and fight on a battlefield instead of hiding behind civilians.


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    #2157
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,192 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Sources of what information?


    I know where Belfast is, I was born and reared just over twenty miles from it until I was 27. Lived in it when I was a student for four years also. What relevance has a Wikipedia article on the place as a source for anything? Ditto ministry of defence. Why a Wikipedia article about it?

    Sometimes you lot circle the wagons very unnecessarily.

    I now know, sillyoulfool done a copy & paste from the wikipedia page bumper234 later posted, the links were still embedded

    Capturewe534.jpg


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    #2158
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    rockatansky wrote: »
    No member of the British Armed forces should ever go to Jail for killing members of the IRA (whether they are armed or unarmed), it is a war. Before you became a member of the IRA it is made very clear to you that it only ever ends in 2 ways, prison or death.

    So no member of the ira should ever go to jail for killing British soldiers?


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    #2159
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If the IRA were soldiers why didn't they wear uniforms and fight on a battlefield instead of hiding behind civilians.

    Guerrilla warfare, its commonly used when you are out manned and out gunned. It was successfully used during the War of Independence to free the 26 Counties from British Rule


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    #2160
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    So no member of the ira should ever go to jail for killing British soldiers?

    Absolutely not.


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    #2161
    B_Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭B_Rabbit


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If the IRA were soldiers why didn't they wear uniforms and fight on a battlefield instead of hiding behind civilians.

    So I suppose the Viet Cong weren't soldiers either?


This discussion has been closed.
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