What evidence of Gerry Adams' IRA membership do people need?

flutered

no if gerry has as quick to send love letters as fg's rich uncle den and of course long fill, would we have to endure as muck wink and innendue.

Godge

maccored wrote: »

I think its defined when they said:

"No-one apart from Maria Cathal and Martin Morris can be certain of the whole truth about what happened."

I've no idea either and my thoughts where no-one apart from Maria Cathal and Martin Morris can be certain of the whole truth about what happened. I certainly wouldnt use it in a thread about gerry adams' apparent IRA membership.

It is relevant for two reasons

(1) Gerry Adams appears to have been heavily involved again in an IRA enquiry
(2) It once again appears to expose his propensity to dissemble about past events.

A Dub in Glasgo

Godge wrote: »

It is relevant for two reasons

The only relevance is you wanted to post it in this thread today however tenuous link to the thread content

Happyman42

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The only relevance is you wanted to post it in this thread today however tenuous link to the thread content

Indeed.
I'm searching for a thread on the Spotlight Kincora revelations containing similar outrage from Godge, but I can't find one. Wonder why?
Lord Mountbatten, Paisley, high ranking politicians and MI5 all alleged to be involved there.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

Indeed.
I'm searching for a thread on the Spotlight Kincora revelations containing similar outrage from Godge, but I can't find one. Wonder why?
Lord Mountbatten, Paisley, high ranking politicians and MI5 all alleged to be involved there.

Haven't come across that news in the last week.

Only came across the Spotlight stuff because I was looking for Gerry's vow to never disassociate himself from the IRA. It is curious how it was not reported down here.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Haven't come across that news in the last week.

Only came across the Spotlight stuff because I was looking for Gerry's vow to never disassociate himself from the IRA. It is curious how it was not reported down here.

The aerial is obviously only tuned to one station. GetthedirtonGerry FM.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

The aerial is obviously only tuned to one station. GetthedirtonGerry FM.

Just googled it and yes, there seem to be some questions to be answered. I don't have much faith in getting the answers - we are still waiting for a Liam Adams explanation and not getting it.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Just googled it and yes, there seem to be some questions to be answered. I don't have much faith in getting the answers - we are still waiting for a Liam Adams explanation and not getting it.

This is an ongoing (30 odd years) controversy about serious serial and organised abuse of numerous boys with senior members of the political establishment implicated as well as MI5 and still no inquiry.

Liam Adams is in jail and his brother has no questions to answer according to the PSNI.
There is no comparison tbh.

Godge

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gerry-adams-totally-refutes-claims-alleged-ira-rape-victim-told-him-of-abuse-30668568.html

"I have contacted my solicitor with regard to the allegations made against me in the Spotlight programme."

Didn't Gerry contact his solicitors about the allegations he was a member of the IRA? And also about his treatment while being questioned?

Does anyone know whether he ever took a case on any of these after talking to his solicitors?

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gerry-adams-totally-refutes-claims-alleged-ira-rape-victim-told-him-of-abuse-30668568.html

"I have contacted my solicitor with regard to the allegations made against me in the Spotlight programme."

Didn't Gerry contact his solicitors about the allegations he was a member of the IRA? And also about his treatment while being questioned?

Does anyone know whether he ever took a case on any of these after talking to his solicitors?

Has anybody taken a successful case against Gerry, over membership, over Jean McConville, over his brother, over this latest allegation?

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

Has anybody taken a successful case against Gerry, over membership, over Jean McConville, over his brother, over this latest allegation?

Who would dare?

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Who would dare?

Like a lot of places in Ireland it is easy to allege, without ever proving anything as long as the allegations are about a certain subset of people.
In Adams case it seems 'allegations' are as cyclical as the seasons.

maccored

yes, apparent IS the word, considering it's based on hearsay and rumour. Gossip might be good enough for some - but its not good enough for me.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

"Apparent" being the word.

walshb

Adams has been hit with a lot of bad pres lately. I don't see why this woman would be lying about this. It seems to have taken a lot for her to come forward.

maccored

I doubt she is lying about being abused. If Adams was involved in that abuse though let the courts decide, and not the tabloid press.

walshb wrote: »

Adams has been hit with a lot of bad pres lately. I don't see why this woman would be lying about this. It seems to have taken a lot for her to come forward.

jank

Surely his position as leader of Sinn Fein is on the line now.

walshb

jank wrote: »

Surely his position as leader of Sinn Fein is on the line now.

I think this does the party harm. Maybe a new leadership is needed.

walshb

maccored wrote: »

I doubt she is lying about being abused. If Adams was involved in that abuse though let the courts decide, and not the tabloid press.

I don't think she was saying that he had a physical involvement, just a cover up role! So, I guess that it would be an involvement nonetheless. Why would she be lying about him being involved? Seems a lot to go through to target one man. He says they met and never discussed what she is claiming. One of them is lying.

Berserker

jank wrote: »

Surely his position as leader of Sinn Fein is on the line now.

Not at this point. He is idolized by the party members and it's supporters. If more of these allegations start coming out and support for the party starts to drop them he might come under pressure. This is the 2nd case of this nature against him, leaving his other issues aside. Take a look at the detail of his brother's case. Horrific stuff.

Villain

jank wrote: »

Surely his position as leader of Sinn Fein is on the line now.

Bizarrely most polls find him to be one of the most popular leaders of a political party in the state and that parties support is also at a record high in polls!

maccored

I would like to know why she dropped the charges when it went to court. She's a Cahill, so I doubt she would have anything to fear from the PIRA. Having got as far as court, you'd think it would have went further. To be honest, I cant see why its being brought up now in the press rather than having had its day in court.

walshb wrote: »

I don't think she was saying that he had a physical involvement, just a cover up role! So, I guess that it would be an involvement nonetheless. Why would she be lying about him being involved? Seems a lot to go through to target one man. He says they met and never discussed what she is claiming. One of them is lying.

K-9

I wouldn't read too much into her not going to court, cases like this are stressful at the best of times, then you have SF and IRA involvement on top of it.

maccored

Going to court and going to the press gives you the same exposure to 'SF and the IRA' and its probably just as stressful. makes no sense to me.

K-9 wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much into her not going to court, cases like this are stressful at the best of times, then you have SF and IRA involvement on top of it.

Happyman42

K-9 wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much into her not going to court, cases like this are stressful at the best of times, then you have SF and IRA involvement on top of it.

I wouldn't agree, I find it curious that she opted out of the justice process and decided 4 years on to attempt to get justice through the media.
I have no doubt she is a victim, I am just wondering is she allowing herself to be used. Somebody in the media made a decision to air this 4 years after the abandoned court case, after all. That in itself is worthy of examination.

Berserker

maccored wrote: »

Going to court and going to the press gives you the same exposure to 'SF and the IRA' and its probably just as stressful. makes no sense to me.

By making this public, the lady is actually protecting herself. If it went to court, the detail would not be in the public domain and she would be far more open to abuse and harassment from those who want to protect the culprits. You are unhappy about her going public because it tarnish this ridiculous whiter-than-white image that Adams is trying to portray in our country.

Villain wrote: »

Bizarrely most polls find him to be one of the most popular leaders of a political party in the state and that parties support is also at a record high in polls!

That satisfaction rating is based on people who say that they would vote for SF, not all the people canvassed. As I said above, SF voters have this 'Kim Il-Sung' level of reverence for Adams, so he is always going to score highly in that category. I am surprised that it is not higher.

K-9

maccored wrote: »

Going to court and going to the press gives you the same exposure to 'SF and the IRA' and its probably just as stressful. makes no sense to me.

These things often don't, doesn't mean there's an ulterior motive.

Happyman42 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree, I find it curious that she opted out of the justice process and decided 4 years on to attempt to get justice through the media.
I have no doubt she is a victim, I am just wondering is she allowing herself to be used. Somebody in the media made a decision to air this 4 years after the abandoned court case, after all. That in itself is worthy of examination.

Maybe she got more courage from the Liam Adams case. Touting wasn't looked on kindly in the very recent past like the McCartney case.

Villain

Berserker wrote: »

That satisfaction rating is based on people who say that they would vote for SF, not all the people canvassed. As I said above, SF voters have this 'Kim Il-Sung' level of reverence for Adams, so he is always going to score highly in that category. I am surprised that it is not higher.

That would make sense if they were still below 10% but at over 20% now is that argument still valid?

Happyman42

Berserker wrote: »

By making this public, the lady is actually protecting herself. If it went to court, the detail would not be in the public domain and she would be far more open to abuse and harassment from those who want to protect the culprits. You are unhappy about her going public because it tarnish this ridiculous whiter-than-white image that Adams is trying to portray in our country.



That satisfaction rating is based on people who say that they would vote for SF, not all the people canvassed. As I said above, SF voters have this 'Kim Il-Sung' level of reverence for Adams, so he is always going to score highly in that category. I am surprised that it is not higher.

K-9 wrote: »

These things often don't, doesn't mean there's an ulterior motive.



Maybe she got more courage from the Liam Adams case. Touting wasn't looked on kindly in the very recent past like the McCartney case.

The details of this where well known and being written about in 2010 lads.
You need to ask why this is back in the media now.
And I am at a loss to explain or understand how somebody who stopped a trial of her attacker is now looking for justice in the media.
It's very odd.

K-9

Dedicated thread here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057309609

maccored

It did already go to court.

Anti Shinners have this 'he's a complete bastard' level of reverence for Adams in that justice and the law of the land applies to everyone bar him. when adams is involved, it seems to be justifiable to accuse the man of anything even when the justice system doesn't make the same accusations.

Berserker wrote: »

By making this public, the lady is actually protecting herself. If it went to court, the detail would not be in the public domain and she would be far more open to abuse and harassment from those who want to protect the culprits. You are unhappy about her going public because it tarnish this ridiculous whiter-than-white image that Adams is trying to portray in our country.



That satisfaction rating is based on people who say that they would vote for SF, not all the people canvassed. As I said above, SF voters have this 'Kim Il-Sung' level of reverence for Adams, so he is always going to score highly in that category. I am surprised that it is not higher.

maccored

K-9 wrote: »

These things often don't, doesn't mean there's an ulterior motive.

as its been pointed out - this is four years later. why is it cropping up now? doesnt that point to some form of ulterior motive by someone, possibly even suggesting the cynical political point scoring manipulation of the woman concerned by others?

Happyman42

maccored wrote: »

as its been pointed out - this is four years later. why is it cropping up now? doesnt that point to some form of ulterior motive by someone, possibly even suggesting the cynical political point scoring manipulation of the woman concerned by others?

It actually stinks to the high heavens of that tbh.

There is a safety in outing unproveable allegations. Throw enough dirt and some of it will stick.

Fuzzy Clam

maccored wrote: »

I would like to know why she dropped the charges when it went to court. She's a Cahill, so I doubt she would have anything to fear from the PIRA. Having got as far as court, you'd think it would have went further. To be honest, I cant see why its being brought up now in the press rather than having had its day in court.

She didn't drop the charges, they are still on the book. She dropped her support for the prosecution.
Maybe after 4 years, she's disillusioned with the process.

maccored

the court case collapsed either way. she didnt help her case and it doesnt explain why its cropping up now.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

She didn't drop the charges, they are still on the book. She dropped her support for the prosecution.
Maybe after 4 years, she's disillusioned with the process.

Fr. Ned

Happyman42 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree, I find it curious that she opted out of the justice process and decided 4 years on to attempt to get justice through the media.
I have no doubt she is a victim, I am just wondering is she allowing herself to be used. Somebody in the media made a decision to air this 4 years after the abandoned court case, after all. That in itself is worthy of examination.

Exactly.
Someone is organising all the press meetings, tv shows etc.
I've a feeling she's being abused again, in a different way.
It won't end good.

eire4

maccored wrote: »

the court case collapsed either way. she didnt help her case and it doesnt explain why its cropping up now.

I suspect recent opinion polls may explain why this is coming up now. Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Labour all scrambling worried about Sinn Fein's rise and the idea that they may actually threaten them and their positions.

Berserker

eire4 wrote: »

I suspect recent opinion polls may explain why this is coming up now.

Ah, do I sense the good old persecution complex? You shinners are trying anything and everything to try and get rid of this. Surely, it would have been better to release something like this prior to your failed campaign in South Dublin last week? It would have be ideal for you, as you could have blamed that loss on it.

Happyman42

Berserker wrote: »

Ah, do I sense the good old persecution complex? You shinners are trying anything and everything to try and get rid of this. Surely, it would have been better to release something like this prior to your failed campaign in South Dublin last week? It would have be ideal for you, as you could have blamed that loss on it.

I suspect you haven't listened to SF putting the blame squarely on themselves for losing that bye-election.
But sure make it up as you see fit.
As a republican I can only see this as confirmation for those already opposed to SF and it won't harm support. SF like all republicans are well used to these very transparent attempts to throw enough dirt in the hope that some will stick.
And I am afraid nothing about this latest attempt convinces me that it is any different. The only sad difference is that a young woman is not going to get justice for an attack on her. Shame on those who advised her on this route.

Godge

Getting this back on topic, the attached link is interesting:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mairia-cahill-my-grandfather-recruited-gerry-adams-into-the-ira-30677311.html


Mairia Cahill had this to say this morning:

"I know Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA. My grandfather recruited him into what was termed the Community Organisation. That is a matter of record."

"I have family members who were also in the IRA who would have confirmed this."


Having listened to the interview, Ms. Cahill comes across as a sincere clear-headed reliable person, and clearly not a politician. She sounded credible on everything she had to say and it rings true.

beeno67

Happyman42 wrote: »

I suspect you haven't listened to SF putting the blame squarely on themselves for losing that bye-election.
But sure make it up as you see fit.
As a republican I can only see this as confirmation for those already opposed to SF and it won't harm support. SF like all republicans are well used to these very transparent attempts to throw enough dirt in the hope that some will stick.
And I am afraid nothing about this latest attempt convinces me that it is any different. The only sad difference is that a young woman is not going to get justice for an attack on her. Shame on those who advised her on this route.

So this could be a conspiracy with lots of people involved including Maria Cahill who comes across as very believable relating a very believable series of events but if true it means a politician is lying.
God you are right. Gerry Adam's couldn't be lying so it must be true.

You know damn well if these allegations were about a young republican girl being abused by a member of the church Mary Lou and the gang would not be saying leave it to the proper authorities to investigate.

maccored

its in the indo. It has to be true. I would trust the Sun quicker.

Godge wrote: »

Getting this back on topic, the attached link is interesting:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mairia-cahill-my-grandfather-recruited-gerry-adams-into-the-ira-30677311.html


Mairia Cahill had this to say this morning:

"I know Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA. My grandfather recruited him into what was termed the Community Organisation. That is a matter of record."

"I have family members who were also in the IRA who would have confirmed this."


Having listened to the interview, Ms. Cahill comes across as a sincere clear-headed reliable person, and clearly not a politician. She sounded credible on everything she had to say and it rings true.

Dan_Solo

beeno67 wrote: »

So this could be a conspiracy with lots of people involved including Maria Cahill who comes across as very believable relating a very believable series of events but if true it means a politician is lying.
God you are right. Gerry Adam's couldn't be lying so it must be true.

You know damn well if these allegations were about a young republican girl being abused by a member of the church Mary Lou and the gang would not be saying leave it to the proper authorities to investigate.

I'd say if you set your mind to it within a few hours you could possibly fit one more logical fallacy into your post.
"very believable" "you know damn well"... great stuff!

Fuzzy Clam

maccored wrote: »

its in the indo. It has to be true. I would trust the Sun quicker.

Says the man who believes in the paranormal..........:rolleyes:

DarkyHughes

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Says the man who believes in the paranormal..........:rolleyes:

Yes, but the Indo is notorious for it's anti-Republican, anti-Sinn Fein, anti-Left-Wing & pro-Far-Right bias.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Getting this back on topic, the attached link is interesting:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mairia-cahill-my-grandfather-recruited-gerry-adams-into-the-ira-30677311.html


Mairia Cahill had this to say this morning:

"I know Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA. My grandfather recruited him into what was termed the Community Organisation. That is a matter of record."

"I have family members who were also in the IRA who would have confirmed this."


Having listened to the interview, Ms. Cahill comes across as a sincere clear-headed reliable person, and clearly not a politician. She sounded credible on everything she had to say and it rings true.

She didn't mention anything about Jean McConville...that MUST mean he didn't do it so.

Happyman42

beeno67 wrote: »

So this could be a conspiracy with lots of people involved including Maria Cahill who comes across as very believable relating a very believable series of events but if true it means a politician is lying.
God you are right. Gerry Adam's couldn't be lying so it must be true.

You know damn well if these allegations were about a young republican girl being abused by a member of the church Mary Lou and the gang would not be saying leave it to the proper authorities to investigate.

What would Mary Lou be saying?
And I never said anything about 'Gerry couldn't be lying'. Could you deal with what I did say?

My suspicion here is that an unfortunate woman who was raped is being used for political aims by opponents of SF.

beeno67

Happyman42 wrote: »

What would Mary Lou be saying?


And I never said anything about 'Gerry couldn't be lying'. Could you deal with what I did say?

My suspicion here is that an unfortunate woman who was raped is being used for political aims by opponents of SF.

Let's see some evidence then.

oscarBravo

Happyman42 wrote: »

My suspicion here is that an unfortunate woman who was raped is being used for political aims by opponents of SF.

And she's, what? too stupid to realise it?

What would be her motivation for allowing herself to be used in this way?

beeno67

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I'd say if you set your mind to it within a few hours you could possibly fit one more logical fallacy into your post.
"very believable" "you know damn well"... great stuff!

What kind of comment is that? The whole issue rests on who you believe in this case. The term believable is essential to it.

Dan_Solo

beeno67 wrote: »

What kind of comment is that? The whole issue rests on who you believe in this case. The term believable is essential to it.

Your whole post boils down to "I don't believe him because he is unbelievable and sure who would believe him".
It is entirely evidence free. No facts are provided to support anything.