Bloodborne (From Software / Sony)

Retr0gamer

AdamD wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that is the opposite of brilliant level design? The only reason I haven't missed significant chunks is because I've been in party chat with people who are miles ahead of me. I know its what they're going for etc. but imo the game needs more direction, some people I'm playing with have actually missed parts it won't allow them to try now until they start a new game.

Can't disagree with you more. The non-linear level design that loops around itself is just fantastic and the fact that you can miss many of it's secrets and knowing there is more to discover makes it so much more fun and rewarding to go looking for them. If you miss something its your own fault for not having a sharp enough eye.

mdwexford

sweetie wrote: »

Summon Alfred and he can help

Did that and another guy joined in as well so the 3 of us took him on.

He got killed after about half BSB energy was gone but I was able to finish him off then.

Cheers man.

cloud493

I defeated amelia without using the glitch. Blood starved beast was just ridiculous.

saidinmilamber

I'm just at the final boss now, so am gonna clear it tonight. Couldn't be bothered treking through the Nightmare Frontier just to kill Amygdala. Think I'll make a new character afterwards and try an Arcane build, they look like fun and I think I'm a bit more prepared for the difficulty at low levels that that kind of build has.

Overall the story was trying too hard to be hard to understand. And I don't mean the history, I mean just what happens to your character.

Dark Souls sort of made sense.

You're an undead left to rot in the Asylum but you get help escaping to a ruined Lordran and get caught up in the machinations of the snakes to either prolong the Age of Fire or to end it, either way you'll need to kill all of these bitchin bosses to do that.

Dark Souls 2 was a little more convoluted, but still understandable.

You go to Drangleic looking for a cure to the undead curse as your memory starts to fail you. You get caught up in the machinations of the Emerald Herald and the daughters of Manus, and whether you cure the curse or not (by unlocking the Crowns), you must decide whether to perpetuate the cycles of Dark and Light, or destroy the cycles. Either way, bitchin bosses need to die.

Bloodborne is a little more scattered but maybe VaatiVidya will clarify it eventually.

You're some guy that may be afflicted with an incurable disease. You go to Yharnam and get an infusion of blood that I guess cures your disease. As a side effect, when you're killed you go to the Hunter's Dream for some reason. Now, even though you have what you came here for, your silent character imposes their want for Pale Blood and your quest continues (begins). You need to head to the Cathedral Ward as there's a a vague lead for the Pale Blood to be there with the healing church. You kill some bosses on the way there, eventually killing Vicar Amelia, the only member of the healing church you meet. There you get a flashback vision that gives you a password that lets you go to the Forbidden Woods, so... uhhhh... I guess you go there. That leads you to Byrgenwerth, where you find a Great One that's all passive and stuff, chilling in a lake. So, you kill it, because duh, it's ugly, and the Yharnam goes all nightmarish and stuff. For some reason, you teleport to Yahar'gul and kill this thing that drips from the Paleblood Moon (which might be what you were looking for, but WHO CARES now). Then you once again magically teleport, this time to a lecture building (oh god, what a nightmare, I'm back in my undergraduate!!!) and from there to another nightmare. You kill a few horrifying things here, and then head back to the Hunter's Dream because you're all done and dusted. Then you kill or die to some final bosses and wake up all cured or as a slug. Riiiiiight?.....

AdamD

daUbiq wrote: »

It's From Software - that's how they've always done it.

That doesn't mean its not a flaw..

daUbiq

AdamD wrote: »

That doesn't mean its not a flaw..

There is no flaw, you have to actually think and look for everything, there ain't no hand holding; it's not like your average triple a title where everything is obvious and easy. It's difficult by design.

Grayditch

The level design is unreal. Far from being flawed.

heebusjeebus

It's signposted a lot more than the Dark Souls games were anyway. Doesn't the first guy you talk to through a window tell you to head across to to the Church of Healing.
It does get a bit murky once you kill Rom and the veil is lifted but it's nothing too bewildering.

Retr0gamer

Definitely nothing like the double illusionary wall to get the the place with all the trees and lake in Dark Souls. And still that was mostly signposted by helpful players.

AdamD

daUbiq wrote: »

There is no flaw, you have to actually think and look for everything, there ain't no hand holding; it's not like your average triple a title where everything is obvious and easy. It's difficult by design.

Its not difficult though, its tedious. The fighting is difficult and enjoyable, spending 20 minutes running around the same area trying to find a gate is neither difficult nor enjoyable.

Digital Solitude

Level 4 run is going fine, beaten Cleric Beast, Fr Gaz and the BSB. I'd have beaten Amelia if it wasn't for her stupid healing ability.

thorbarry

Got stuck on the BSB and Vicar Amelia even though I was around level 35. All the other enemies in the area I was disposing of very easily, but just couldnt kill these 2 bosses. Managed to get Alfred and another guy help me kill BSB, then got another guy online to help me with Amelia. Then I run into the Witch of Hemwick and kill her first go!!

daUbiq

AdamD wrote: »

Its not difficult though, its tedious. The fighting is difficult and enjoyable, spending 20 minutes running around the same area trying to find a gate is neither difficult nor enjoyable.

It seems it's not for everyone...

Kirby

daUbiq wrote: »

There is no flaw

Nope. Not having that. Bought the game and enjoyed it, like all souls games. But you are way off on that one. Being circuitous in your story telling is fine, being purposefully obtuse is not.

Frankly, if guys like vaati put a hundred hours into trying to work out the story to a game and still guess about parts of it.....that's all that has to be said.

If you have to have the story explained to you, it hasn't done its job.

Digital Solitude

Kirby wrote: »

Nope. Not having that. Bought the game and enjoyed it, like all souls games. But you are way off on that one. Being circuitous in your story telling is fine, being purposefully obtuse is not.

Frankly, if guys like vaati put a hundred hours into trying to work out the story to a game and still guess about parts of it.....that's all that has to be said.

If you have to have the story explained to you, it hasn't done its job.

He's talking about the level design, not the story. I think everyone here would agree that the story is Froms stupidest yet, it's incredibly obtuse.

Level design on the otherhand, is flawless imo

Kirby

Yeah but he said it had no flaw. Cant be having that. :P

I like the level design personally. I feel its actually the best of the souls series in regards to design. But the story......bloody hell they need a lesson in that. Nobody understood the ending.

Digital Solitude

Kirby wrote: »

Yeah but he said it had no flaw. Cant be having that. :P

I like the level design personally. I feel its actually the best of the souls series in regards to design. But the story......bloody hell they need a lesson in that. Nobody understood the ending.

Because you're taking what he said out of context?

I think I squealed with delight when I went from the Forbidden Woods back to the Clinic, I thought it was unreal

Retr0gamer

Does anyone really play souls games for the story? Even if you don't understand it it's pretty superfluous and really only accentuates the wonder and mystery about the place. It's just a nice extra that if you dive into it there's a whole lot you can get out of it. It's hardly a negative especially when it never gets in the way of the game or breaks up it's momentum the way cutscenes do.

Not ever game needs cutscenes to spell out every a story that the designer so desperately wants to tell the player. A lot more games should be like Bloodborne and remember that they are videogames and let the player play with it and explore.

Retr0gamer

Kirby wrote: »

Yeah but he said it had no flaw. Cant be having that. :P

True, nothing is perfect, but like Dark Souls it's pretty damn close. Anyway no game will ever beat Super Metroid, the true perfect games

Digital Solitude

Well I killed Amelia, but the Shadow of Yarnham are 2 shotting me Viscerals only do about ⅛th damage. This is going to be a long playthrough

tok9

I beat Amygdala in the Defiled Dungeon and I've unlocked the final Dungeon for that area. I didn't find it as difficult as the Watchdog but I would say that fight improved me a lot in patience and timing so maybe that was it.


Just need some ritual blood so I'll start off the Isz dungeons tomorrow.

tok9

Regarding the story or snippets of what's there, are some complaining because they don't like how cryptic it is or because they don't like it?

tok9

This game has so much to it.

The npc in Hemlock who roars gibberish

now talks to me due to insight I assume. He gave me the tonsil stone and told me to go to the right of the grand Cathedral.

I went there thinking I could go to the unseen village but the door was still locked so I read up the description in game and decided to let the spider giant pick me up.

After a cutscene, I'm now in the Lecture building! Therefore you could realistically skip the majority of bosses in the game.

So really there are only 4 bosses in the game you have to beat! The rest are optional. That's a bit crazy.

EDIT: Looks like I may have jumped the gun there actually. Looks like I can only get to Nightmare Frontier and not Mensis so I'm wrong.

Digital Solitude

What's the problem with only getting to Mensis?
It would depend on how much insight you need to talk to the guy as well, unless you do a fvck-ton on Co-Op there's only a certain amount you can get without killing bosses

Zero-Cool

I don't think i had that much insight when i got the tonsil stone. I have 65 atm and just at the Micholas Cage fight. Only had 1 go off him but seems really easy.

Crows with dog heads and dogs with crow heads sharing the same dead body dinner is some sight...

tok9

Digital Solitude wrote: »

What's the problem with only getting to Mensis?
It would depend on how much insight you need to talk to the guy as well, unless you do a fvck-ton on Co-Op there's only a certain amount you can get without killing bosses

Sorry that was supposed to say not instead of now.

Oh I know.. it was just something I was thinking about.

Digital Solitude

tok9 wrote: »

Sorry that was supposed to say not instead of now.

Oh I know.. it was just something I was thinking about.

Ah I get you now. How do open the doors I wonder?

Ah I know yeah I wasn't leaping in to **** on your theory, its an interesting find

saidinmilamber

Well this clarifies some bits I suppose :pac:

J. Marston

Of all the enemies in the game, it's those shítty little crows that make the most horrifying noise.

Gamer Bhoy 89

I decided to go back to Cainhurst Castle, to the secret throne room where the Queen appeared at first, only to find some other guy praising in front of her throne, where she seems to have be ripped apart and killed

The roleplayer in me wanted "revenge" :pac: so I picked a fight with him and I got an item off him. (Can't remember what the item was as I exited the game after)

Should I have killed him? Or did he have something valuable that needed him to be alive for?