Tom Gilmartin's son on LLS - "You people make the mafia look like monks"

marienbad

Tail Docker wrote: »

How free are modern democracies? Your home is only yours unless a court takes it from you, you can only change it if the state consents, CCTV follows your movements, your phone tracks your location 24/7..your e-mails are intercepted as a matter of routine, how you drive is monitored constantly, what you own and earn is taxed and monitored, bank transactions are monitored and limited - cash movements are not free, and what you choose to consume and when you choose to consume it(think alcohol, weed, cigarettes, etc) is either dictated, regulated or prohibited. Freedom is an illusion.

On topic, corruption is endemic in Ireland - it runs the gamut from businesses paying to gain contracts, or permits, or approvals, through to Politicians selling access or favours. Are we unique in that? Doubtful. It is a human nature to seek to buy your way ahead of the next man. I believe it is a universal truth - money and power are inseparable. The people with power use that power to get money. People with money use that money to buy power and gain more money. Money makes the world go round - such is life. Some are just more blatant and in your face about it than others.

How much of these things do you do by choice ?

Tail Docker

Well then how can a court take it from you?

BTW a compulsory purchase order is not "taking" it, if that's where your going. Taking it wouldn't involve you getting paid for it.

You've clearly a chip and are hamming things up worse than a tabloid editor. Trying to put an evil government slant on everything.

Presumably the lads in Leinster house are forcing you to use a mobile phone so they can track you?

Nope. People were discussing Dictatorships versus "Democracies". I think that the difference is largely semantics and window-dressing. Our elected representatives are only front-persons anyway. The permanent government -the civil service - don't get elected, they just dictate. So, semantics. I'd smiley, but someone robbed them on me.

Guy:Incognito

Tail Docker wrote: »

Nope. People were discussing Dictatorships versus "Democracies". I think that the difference is largely semantics and window-dressing. Our elected representatives are only front-persons anyway. The permanent government -the civil service - don't get elected, they just dictate. So, semantics. I'd smiley, but someone robbed them on me.

You should probably just save yourself and jumboman time and post "government = bad" then you get a post thanked and he gets to thank one.

Well done on quoting but not actually answering the quote btw.

ryan101

I see our minders have showed up

osarusan

Tail Docker wrote: »

I think that the difference is largely semantics and window-dressing.

You should think harder.

brooke 2

red sean wrote: »

Here's the LLS clip from youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rP_kiT3o2s

Thank you! Hard to keep this thread on topic for some reason!!!

brooke 2

Jumboman wrote: »

Tubridy comes from a fianna fail family he doesn't want to rock the boat.

RTE did not give Thomas Gilmartin Jr. any time on the radio, even though Newstalk, TodayFM and some if the provincial stations did.
Not just Tubridy.

ryan101

red sean wrote: »

Here's the LLS clip from youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rP_kiT3o2s

This should be made compulsive viewing for all students, and they should be told it is still exactly the same out there now, same play, just different actors, over and over, and perhaps they'll try and change it some day.

GerB40

sligojoek wrote: »

I missed this Friday night. I'll get the repeat tomorrow night.

I was doing a job for an elderly lady yesterday and the Late Late came up in conversation. She told me that she and her husband voted FF all their lives and after watching the Gilmartin interview they said never again.

I live near the village that Tom Gilmartin came from. A lot of returned immigrants tell me that he always gave people from North Sligo a job or got them a job somewhere else.

Getting back to Lowry (Sorry to be going off topic) It always riles me when posters paint people from North Tipperary with the same brush. I challenge them to go to Nenagh and start saying to people that Lowry is a great fellow. Good luck with that. He gets most of his votes from the very South of North Tipperary.

Yeah I'm from Nenagh and I saw him canvassing around town on Saturday. I swear if he asked me vote for him I'd probably still be in the cop shop.. I wouldn't píss on the corrupt fúcker if he was on fire. Anyone I've spoken to regarding politics share that sentiment.

I would go on about some of the strokes he's pulled to garner votes but I can't verify any of them completely so I'll leave it, he seems like the type of bollix who'd sue over "scurrilious lies" (as he'd put it himself)..

red sean

ryan101 wrote: »

This should be made compulsive viewing for all students, and they should be told it is still exactly the same out there now, same play, just different actors, over and over, and perhaps they'll try and change it some day.

Read the book, it's horrendous!
Should be compulsive reading for anyone thinking of voting for Fianna Fail.

juneg

red sean wrote: »

Read the book, it's horrendous!
Should be compulsive reading for anyone thinking of voting for Fianna Fail.

should be on the history curriculum too

marienbad

Tail Docker wrote: »

Nope. People were discussing Dictatorships versus "Democracies". I think that the difference is largely semantics and window-dressing. Our elected representatives are only front-persons anyway. The permanent government -the civil service - don't get elected, they just dictate. So, semantics. I'd smiley, but someone robbed them on me.

You know what , you and jumboman have convinced me ! We'd be better off in Mussolini's Italy ! Just think - great sunshine and the trains would run on time.

Get a grip ffs.

Shakespeare's Sister

Tail Docker wrote: »

Nope. People were discussing Dictatorships versus "Democracies". I think that the difference is largely semantics and window-dressing.

That's right. The difference between Ireland and: Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Mao's China, the Soviet Union under Stalin and some of his successors, nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Saddam's Iraq, Amin's Uganda, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Gaddaffi's Libya, Cuba (the latter two I am required to point out are/were "nicer" dictatorships)... is largely semantics and window-dressing.

ryan101

red sean wrote: »

Read the book, it's horrendous!
Should be compulsive reading for anyone thinking of voting for Fianna Fail.

and FG/Lab/SF/Ind - make no mistake, they are all at it. Their motto is cronieism first, country and people last.

red sean

ryan101 wrote: »

and FG/Lab/SF/Ind - make no mistake, they are all at it. Their motto is cronieism first, country and people last.

Proof??
Read the book and the grand scale of bribery, corruption that FF operated on, from the top down, makes the others look like schoolboys.
There was a small few dodgy non-FF councillors involved but they were complete "amateurs" at extortion compared to the FF "professionals" !

ryan101

red sean wrote: »

Proof??
Read the book and the grand scale of bribery, corruption that FF operated on, from the top down, makes the others look like schoolboys.
There was a small few dodgy non-FF councillors involved but they were complete "amateurs" at extortion compared to the FF "professionals" !

ah right, I get your slant now, corruption only exists when FF scum are caught at it. :rolleyes:
I suppose the recent Gardai corruption, CRC, and Irish Water consultants never existed ?
But its all see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil now ?
Don't try to kid yourself and others that FF are the only corrupt party in this country.
I'm not buying it.
All the rest are every bit as corrupt.

Shakespeare's Sister

Their record would indicate they are the most corrupt, by far, though.

ryan101

Magaggie wrote: »

Their record would indicate they are the most corrupt, by far, though.

You mean the record would show they've been caught the most, having been longest in power. Its this type of complacency that other Irish polticians are somehow cleaner that made it easy for the recent Gardai Corruption, CRC and Irish Water consultants fiasco. The only difference between the parties in Ireland, are their cronies and parasites, that is all.

marienbad

ryan101 wrote: »

ah right, I get your slant now, corruption only exists when FF scum are caught at it. :rolleyes:
I suppose the recent Gardai corruption, CRC, and Irish Water consultants never existed ?
But its all see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil now ?
Don't try to kid yourself and others that FF are the only corrupt party in this country.
I'm not buying it.
All the rest are every bit as corrupt.

They simply aren't, and saying so just takes from your point.

This is not to say that there isn't a huge sense of entitlement in Irish political classes but to equate Kenny Gilmore et al with Ahern Lowry Haughey Lawler Burke is just foolishness.

ryan101

marienbad wrote: »

They simply aren't, and saying so just takes from your point.

This is not to say that there isn't a huge sense of entitlement in Irish political classes but to equate Kenny Gilmore et al with Ahern Lowry Haughey Lawler Burke is just foolishness.

To date in their short spell in power, Gardai corruption, CRC, and Irish Water consultants have already been exposed. It's this type of niavity that lets them away with it, time and time again. Irish politics is all rotten to the core.

juneg

I make a point of never voting for anyone who is following family members into politics. These dynasties going back the generations don't sit well with me.

Shakespeare's Sister

marienbad wrote: »

to equate Kenny Gilmore et al with Ahern Lowry Haughey Lawler Burke is just foolishness.

But they're politicians! Therefore they're all corrupt gangsters yadda yadda...

red sean

Gardai corruption, CRC, and Irish Water consultants

Where have politicians of any party or no party been accused of bribery, extortion etc in any of these cases?

mbur

Magaggie wrote: »

But they're politicians! Therefore they're all corrupt gangsters yadda yadda...

On an unrelated matter. Does anyone know which elements of the media were paid off/influenced by the FF mafia to slag Tom Gilmartin?

KyussBishop

What do people think should be done to end corruption like this?

Do people personally think that other people should be the ones to try and end it? (not try to participate themselves as well)

Lots of discussion about how bad it is and all (and I agree with that, plus it's good to discuss that), just not much thinking as to what should actually be done about it.

Shakespeare's Sister

KyussBishop wrote: »

Do people personally think that other people should be the ones to try and end it?

Bingo!

I see a lot on this forum about how useless the Irish are when it comes to politics, but no alternative suggestions. At the same time though, I agree there is a sizeable contingent in the electorate with its head in the clouds.

pablo128

KyussBishop wrote: »

What do people think should be done to end corruption like this?

Do people personally think that other people should be the ones to try and end it? (not try to participate themselves as well)

Lots of discussion about how bad it is and all (and I agree with that, plus it's good to discuss that), just not much thinking as to what should actually be done about it.

We vote people in (Government), and pay people (Gardai) to do this for us. Should we do their jobs for them too?

ryan101

red sean wrote: »

Where have politicians of any party or no party been accused of bribery, extortion etc in any of these cases?

Shatter and Enda tried to cover up the Gardai corruption, and attack the whistle blowers, just in exactly the same way Gilmartin was attacked. Enda's links to the CRC are well documented, as are FG links to the Irish Water consultants fiasco. The more things 'change' in this country the more they stay the same.

dirtyden

ryan101 wrote: »

To date in their short spell in power, Gardai corruption, CRC, and Irish Water consultants have already been exposed. It's this type of niavity that lets them away with it, time and time again. Irish politics is all rotten to the core.

To handling of the garda whistle blowers by the current government was poor I will give you that but the CRC board were mainly FF cronies (actually Berties's pals) and I am nor sure what is your issue with the 'consultancy' fees for irish water when most of it was simply general set up costs, although it does play well in the media calling it consultancy fees. Can you pinpoint your problem with irish water as to where the corruption was?

You could have picked some better examples to knock the current government with. The Garda isssues in itself were incompetence on behalf of the minster of justice rather than anything more sinister in my opinion but he should have resigned.

KyussBishop

pablo128 wrote: »

We vote people in (Government), and pay people (Gardai) to do this for us. Should we do their jobs for them too?

Isn't the problem, that they aren't doing their jobs, and nobody really offers suggestions on how to make them?

marienbad

ryan101 wrote: »

To date in their short spell in power, Gardai corruption, CRC, and Irish Water consultants have already been exposed. It's this type of niavity that lets them away with it, time and time again. Irish politics is all rotten to the core.

Firstly the current crowd have only been in power 3 years and had even more pressing issues on their plates from day 1 , FF were given 3 elections and 10 years to wreck the place so a little realism is required , one term won't fix it.

Now as to the specific issues you raised , all of which were exposed by the Dail committees that this government instituted and have let run without any political interference . They have done more good and exposed more issues that the billions FF wasted on tribunal after tribunal .

Gardaí corruption and CRC are issues that existed long before this government and are only now being exposed by those committees.Can you imagine what we would know if they had the power to compel appearences.

As for Irish water I am not sure I fully understand the issue , is it just the money paid to consultants or what . It all depends on what you get for that money. It seems a bit like the furore over Mueller's Aerlingus package - this is a guy that saved an airline from implosion and you get what you pay for , even Ryan Air saw that. We need to see the details of Irish water not just headline grabbing figures.

But on one level I agree there is a massive level of cronyism and quangoism and entitlement that we must eliminate.

red sean

Good and fair post, marienbad.

Govts. the world over have, and will, make certain decisions badly. But they're human like us all and don't have the power of hindsight.
Demanding money in return for suitable political decisions is a totally different ballgame.
And that's what this thread is about.

I don't believe it's going on in Ireland anymore, despite what the conspiricists would have us believe.

Ironically, one of the people who was on Tom Gilmartin's side and completely against the extortion racket that was taking place, was Haughey's brother Sean, the then Asst. Co. Manager. He told Gilmartin about men to be wary of including Lawlor. But sadly Lawlor and his cronies were already into him (Gilmartin) for 100's of thousands at that stage.
I still can't believe Martin was unaware!

ryan101

red sean wrote: »

Good and fair post, marienbad.

Govts. the world over have, and will, make certain decisions badly. But they're human like us all and don't have the power of hindsight.
Demanding money in return for suitable political decisions is a totally different ballgame.
And that's what this thread is about.

I don't believe it's going on in Ireland anymore, despite what the conspiricists would have us believe.

Ironically, one of the people who was on Tom Gilmartin's side and completely against the extortion racket that was taking place, was Haughey's brother Sean, the then Asst. Co. Manager. He told Gilmartin about men to be wary of including Lawlor. But sadly Lawlor and his cronies were already into him (Gilmartin) for 100's of thousands at that stage.
I still can't believe Martin was unaware!

Yep no one ever tried the same tactics against the Gardai whistle blowers and no one in FG was connected to the the CRC or the Irish Water Consultants fiasco. You gotta love the selective blinkers in this country that allows the corruption to thrive on.

keano_afc

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Take P Flynn who stole €50,000 of TG's money (intended for the FF party to try to extradite himself from the crooks) and put it in his own bank account.

He is off in to the sunset and his daughter has been elected and lives in a castle like home up in Mayo.

Then the locals seem to support them. What can we do?

That's it in a nutshell. This is a country that has returned Michael Lowry numerous times and elects Healy-Rae's at the drop of a hat. And I'm not just having a go at the country folk as I'm sure Bertie would poll well if he ran again.

Nothing will change. Elected officials can do what they want with impunity.

Guy:Incognito

juneg wrote: »

I make a point of never voting for anyone who is following family members into politics. .

There is a whole thread dedicated to that ridiculous way of thinking. People in all walks of life follow their parents into the same field or get jobs with relatives. Doing the same job your father did is no proof of being bad at it.

The best candidate is the best candidate. Regardless of who their mother or father is/was.

marienbad

ryan101 wrote: »

Yep no one ever tried the same tactics against the Gardai whistle blowers and no one in FG was connected to the the CRC or the Irish Water Consultants fiasco. You gotta love the selective blinkers in this country that allows the corruption to thrive on.

You are just being selective now- I doubt if anyone in the country believes that Shatter should still be in government but to try to equate incompetence with the likes of Lawler and Aherne is just ridiculous .

The Garda situation is going on for years and at last, however incompetently, a start has been made on that, same with the charities etc .

What specifically are the issues with Irish Water ?

mbur

marienbad wrote: »

You are just being selective now- I doubt if anyone in the country believes that Shatter should still be in government but to try to equate incompetence with the likes of Lawler and Aherne is just ridiculous .

The Garda situation is going on for years and at last, however incompetently, a start has been made on that, same with the charities etc .

What specifically are the issues with Irish Water ?

So who is Guarda burns then?

Just tring to stay on topic.

renegademaster

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dont forget to vote FF in the upcoming locals/Europeans!!!

doesn't matter who we vote for if we never hold anyone to account, ever!!

KyussBishop

renegademaster wrote: »

doesn't matter who we vote for if we never hold anyone to account, ever!!

That's the thing I don't get here - a lot of people seem to see the (blindingly obvious) problem of corruption and unaccountability, but what is it that people think needs to be done, to stop it?
(hint: If Government itself, the Gardai, the courts etc. - basically all authorities - aren't going to do anything about it, who does that leave?)

pablo128

KyussBishop wrote: »

That's the thing I don't get here - a lot of people seem to see the (blindingly obvious) problem of corruption and unaccountability, but what is it that people think needs to be done, to stop it?
(hint: If Government itself, the Gardai, the courts etc. - basically all authorities - aren't going to do anything about it, who does that leave?)

Sinn Fein!:D

marienbad

mbur wrote: »

So who is Guarda burns then?

Just tring to stay on topic.

Can you elaborate please ?

KyussBishop

pablo128 wrote: »

Sinn Fein!:D

Heh - ya the only party without a history of unprosecuted crime :pac:

Hootanany

Why was Christy Moore introduced and not Mr Gilmartins son?

mbur

marienbad wrote: »

Can you elaborate please ?

Guarda Burns is the person who advised Tom Gilmartin to stop making nasty allegations about the chosen few and to F*** off back to the UK. The link will take you to the relevant part of the LLS interview. I think the events described there rather reinforce your point about the 'guarda situation' going on for years.

P_1

Hootanany wrote: »

Why was Christy Moore introduced and not Mr Gilmartins son?

Apparently the producers of the LLS insisted on having Christy Moore on as a condition for having Gilmartin JR and the author on the show. Presumably to keep the interview as low profile as they could have but it seems to have slightly Streislanded in their faces.

marienbad

mbur wrote: »

Guarda Burns is the person who advised Tom Gilmartin to stop making nasty allegations about the chosen few and to F*** off back to the UK. The link will take you to the relevant part of the LLS interview. I think the events described there rather reinforce your point about the 'guarda situation' going on for years.

Ok thanks, just not up to watching the whole thing again.

GerB40

P_1 wrote: »

Apparently the producers of the LLS insisted on having Christy Moore on as a condition for having Gilmartin JR and the author on the show. Presumably to keep the interview as low profile as they could have but it seems to have slightly Streislanded in their faces.

Okay I have to ask, Streislanded?

P_1

GerB40 wrote: »

Okay I have to ask, Streislanded?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

A typo on my part while attempting to be witty

ryan101

P_1 wrote: »

Apparently the producers of the LLS insisted on having Christy Moore on as a condition for having Gilmartin JR and the author on the show. Presumably to keep the interview as low profile as they could have but it seems to have slightly Streislanded in their faces.

I never understood the whole sweatyness thing with 'chrissstie'

Tail Docker

ryan101 wrote: »

I never understood the whole sweatyness thing with 'chrissstie'

That you Tubbers? Why don't you ask him? Way to focus on the important issues at hand though - sweatiness, yep, that's what needs to be figured out.