Season 4 Episode 5 "First of His Name": *HAVEN'T* Read The Books

bren2001

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Yeah, Littlefinger wants power more than anything. He cares more about that than he does about Catelyn. He also has Sansa now, who reminds me of Catelyn, and I can only assume he's going to creep on her at some point. Even Lysa can see it.

He has Sansa because he believes she is the key to the North. Only Emmet Bolton, Jon and Sam knows Bran and Rickon are alive. However, I do think he feels he owes some debt to Catelyn but risked everything he had built to get Sansa out of Kings Landing for this reason. I imagine this is one of the reasons Lysa asked had they consummated the marriage, if they had, Tyrion would be Warden of the North as it stands.

2ndcoming

bren2001 wrote: »

He has Sansa because he believes she is the key to the North. Only Emmet Bolton, Jon and Sam knows Bran and Rickon are alive. However, I do think he feels he owes some debt to Catelyn but risked everything he had built to get Sansa out of Kings Landing for this reason. I imagine this is one of the reasons Lysa asked had they consummated the marriage, if they had, Tyrion would be Warden of the North as it stands.

Emmet Bolton, some man for one man. Flat out training with the Lilles and plotting to seal the North of Westeros for himself at the same time.

MadYaker

2ndcoming wrote: »

Emmet Bolton, some man for one man. Flat out training with the Lilles and plotting to seal the North of Westeros for himself at the same time.

I don't get it. Who are the Lillies??

Duckworth_Luas

MadYaker wrote: »

I don't get it. Who are the Lillies??

The thing about the Lillies is they always try to White Walk it in!

ConstantJoe

MadYaker wrote: »

I don't get it. Who are the Lillies??

Kildare :pac:

It's Roose Bolton who's head of House Bolton.

2ndcoming

Only remembered another twist to Littlefinger's revelation in this episode.

It was Littlefinger who owned the dagger that the assassin who tried to kill Bran had on him at Winterfell after he woke up in season 1. He told Ned he'd lost it to Tyrion gambling and when Cat heard this it led to Tyrion being brought to the Eyrie for trial, stoking the tensions between the Starks and the Lannisters in the first place, along with the letter he had Lysa send Cat.

So it was pretty clear starting the war was his intention all along.

Bart Mars

Who owns the Ironbank? The Ironborn?

Sulla Felix

Bart Mars wrote: »

Who owns the Ironbank? The Ironborn?

Nope, Braavosi own it. They kind of sound like medieval era Venetians or Milanese.

Bart Mars

And what the hell happened to that lad in yhe box the baldy chaped with no balls had delivered to him last season !

wp_rathead

Wasn't the guy who helped Ayra escape the castle in Season 2 from Braavos? He gave a coin or something she could use? I'v feeling that going to come into use this season the way so much talk about Ironbank

DM addict

He was indeed - he was the Braavosi swordmaster, who Ned hired to teach her how to use her sword, Needle. I believe his name was Syrio, he got mentioned when Arya was practising her fighting and the Hound teased her.

TimeToShine

DM addict wrote: »

He was indeed - he was the Braavosi swordmaster, who Ned hired to teach her how to use her sword, Needle. I believe his name was Syrio, he got mentioned when Arya was practising her fighting and the Hound teased her.

I think he's talking about Jaqen who is also a Braavosi.

marco_polo

Reading the last few pages make me think I should start again from the beginning , the amount of important little details I have completely forgotten about is unbelievable

Anachrony

TimeToShine wrote: »

I think he's talking about Jaqen who is also a Braavosi.

Which, given that he's a face changer, is still not entirely impossible. But it's quite far from an established fact. We saw the guy who was fighting him was still alive later, so Syrio didn't win that fight.

Paddy Cow

marco_polo wrote: »

Reading the last few pages make me think I should start again from the beginning , the amount of important little details I have completely forgotten about is unbelievable

I binge watched all three seasons before this one aired and it really helped to freshen things in my mind. I would've missed a lot of details if I hadn't.

duploelabs

Bart Mars wrote: »

Who owns the Ironbank? The Ironborn?

The Braavosi, the ironborn are from the iron islands and are governed by the greyjoys

bren2001

duploelabs wrote: »

The Braavosi, the ironborn are from the iron islands and are governed by the greyjoys

Not correct. The Bravosi are from Bravos, the greatest of the free cities. They are across the narrow sea. The Targaryens couldn't conquer it.

The ironborn are from the iron islands and the Greyjoys are the commanders of their army but are ruled by Kings Landing. The Ironbank is the name of the bank in Bravos and has nothing to do with the Greyjoys.

duploelabs

bren2001 wrote: »

Not correct. The Bravosi are from Bravos, the greatest of the free cities. They are across the narrow sea. The Targaryens couldn't conquer it.

The ironborn are from the iron islands and the Greyjoys are the commanders of their army but are ruled by Kings Landing. The Ironbank is the name of the bank in Bravos and has nothing to do with the Greyjoys.

sorry bad punctuation. I meant the Braavosi own the iron bank. The iron islands are not ruled by kings landing and are in open revolt

K_user

Very good episode, almost at Red Wedding levels of shock, but I doubt it will be as remembered.

So Littlefinger is the one. He started it all. The only question is whether he was the man with the plan, or if he's a co-conspirator. Of course its obvious that his new marriage is just a stopping point, and we are left wondering what other pies he has left waiting in the wings?

Really enjoyed Cersei and Margaery going head to head in a polite way. Cersei really seems to be stepping up a notch, or has she just resigned?

Tywin rules. It just has to be said. :P

Danys part is progressing well. We know she can survive, we know she can conquer, but can she control? The problems of Slavers bay are far less complex then the intrigue of Kings Landing. So she has a lot to learn.

Jon...after 4 seasons of moping about, he finally had an action scene. And was nearly killed. If it weren't for the girl stabbing his opponent in the back, he was a dead man. Which was followed by the over kill of a sword through the head/face.

Last but not least, poor Sansa...again...

2ndcoming

K_user wrote: »

Jon...after 4 seasons of moping about, he finally had an action scene. And was nearly killed. If it weren't for the girl stabbing his opponent in the back, he was a dead man. Which was followed by the over kill of a sword through the head/face.

Worth remembering he's only supposed to be 17 or 18 at this stage of the series, with little or no battle experience, and that Karl character was billed as the best paid killer in Fleabottom, so he didn't do too badly in fairness.

duploelabs

2ndcoming wrote: »

Worth remembering he's only supposed to be 17 or 18 at this stage of the series, with little or no battle experience, and that Karl character was billed as the best paid killer in Fleabottom, so he didn't do too badly in fairness.

Never mind taking out a whitewalker

K_user

2ndcoming wrote: »

Worth remembering he's only supposed to be 17 or 18 at this stage of the series, with little or no battle experience, and that Karl character was billed as the best paid killer in Fleabottom, so he didn't do too badly in fairness.

Yes, but Arya, Dany, Robb, Joff and Theon, are/were meant to be young as well.

While in training for the Nights Watch there was a whole thing about how Jon was the best recruit there. On how his training as a young lord set him apart.

Granted Karl was an experienced fighter, you would have expected him to be tough. But I felt the end was still more of a "overkill" moment. To me Jon didn't come out a "hero", more of a guy who got lucky and out of desperation went for the most drastic kill shot he could. Can't imagine Ned approving of the move.

Bronn would have loved it though. What was it that he said? You want to fight pretty or you want to win?

Which I think is a running theme in the show. Robb and Ned fought fair. Tywin and Stannis do not.


Either way, IMHO, it was Jon's big moment and he kinda flopped.

K_user

duploelabs wrote: »

Never mind taking out a whitewalker

As did Sam.

golfball37

duploelabs wrote: »

Never mind taking out a whitewalker

A wight wasn't it?

Witcher

I think people are giving too much attention to Jon losing, we've already been told that a longsword isn't a good choice indoors.

Even Kit Harington said it was tough shooting the scene and swinging a sword in such tight space.

Dan_Solo

If anyone has ever seen the movie "Twilight Samurai" they'd have a fair idea why longswords aren't the weapon of choice in a cramped shack. I think it's very believable Jon got his ass handed to him, though yer man's reaction to getting a knife in the back was a bit pathetic. Was he trying to glower yer wan to death instead of just smashing her and turning back to the real danger man?
(yeah, I know he might have died from that stab, but he still looked to have plenty of fight left in him)

iamanengine

K_user wrote: »

Granted Karl was an experienced fighter, you would have expected him to be tough. But I felt the end was still more of a "overkill" moment. To me Jon didn't come out a "hero", more of a guy who got lucky and out of desperation went for the most drastic kill shot he could. Can't imagine Ned approving of the move.

Either way, IMHO, it was Jon's big moment and he kinda flopped.

Maybe this is the way we're supposed to see him, he is different from Ned but maybe that's what he needs to survive, unlike Ned. We might not be supposed to see him as the big hero yet, maybe he isn't the hero at all (although I suspect he could be up there.)

Either way I wouldn't read to much into it, kinda like when Arya got into a fight back in season 3 and was easily disarmed. Can't remember against who, could have been Beric Dondarrion.

K_user

Blay wrote: »

I think people are giving too much attention to Jon losing, we've already been told that a longsword isn't a good choice indoors.

Even Kit Harington said it was tough shooting the scene and swinging a sword in such tight space.

The kind of mistake made once...

K_user

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If anyone has ever seen the movie "Twilight Samurai" they'd have a fair idea why longswords aren't the weapon of choice in a cramped shack. I think it's very believable Jon got his ass handed to him, though yer man's reaction to getting a knife in the back was a bit pathetic. Was he trying to glower yer wan to death instead of just smashing her and turning back to the real danger man?
(yeah, I know he might have died from that stab, but he still looked to have plenty of fight left in him)

That bothered me as well. A simple slap, stab, or well aimed throw would have removed the problem of the girl. Jon was the danger, a man with his experience should have known that.

But maybe the knife wound surprised him and he lost concentration.

ben.schlomo

Christ some people really do go overboard in dissecting unimportant tidbits.

Sulla Felix

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Christ some people really do go overboard in dissecting unimportant tidbits.

You can't call yourself a real fan until you've argued about equine health and safety on long journeys and the relative advantages of different weapon types in a variety of settings. :pac:

Dan_Solo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Christ some people really do go overboard in dissecting unimportant tidbits.

Like you're doing with this rather inconsequential thread?

Bart Mars

Bart Mars wrote: »

And what the hell happened to that lad in yhe box the baldy chaped with no balls had delivered to him last season !

Anyone know??

K_user

iamanengine wrote: »

Maybe this is the way we're supposed to see him, he is different from Ned but maybe that's what he needs to survive, unlike Ned. We might not be supposed to see him as the big hero yet, maybe he isn't the hero at all (although I suspect he could be up there.)

Either way I wouldn't read to much into it, kinda like when Arya got into a fight back in season 3 and was easily disarmed. Can't remember against who, could have been Beric Dondarrion.

Jon has been trained since he was Brans age by expert swordsmen. He received more training when he joined the watch. Arya is younger, a third of his size, with very little training and no experience.

For me you have Jamie growing as a character, Tyrion getting better with each episode, being "noble" over Sansa for example, Dany learning the difference between conquering and ruling, Arya toughening up, Bran learning new skills. While Jon hasn't really done anything.

It would have been great to see him get his hands dirty. Getting all bloody and sparticus. He set out to avenge the death of the lord commander, a man who almost strangled someone to death after being critically stabbed. It was Jons time to show that he had the skills. That he was to be respected, maybe feared. It didn't happen, which I found disappointing.

God help him if it came to a face off against Thorne!

K_user

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Christ some people really do go overboard in dissecting unimportant tidbits.

The growth and development of one of the main characters is a tidbit?

Good to know.

K_user

Bart Mars wrote: »

Anyone know??

Im guessing nothing good!!

Sulla Felix

Bart Mars wrote: »

Anyone know??

It hasn't been shown in the series that I know of. I can imagine though. Varys looks to be a vengeful motha*****

K_user

Sulla Felix wrote: »

It hasn't been shown in the series that I know of. I can imagine though. Varys looks to be a vengeful motha*****

And yet not as bad as little finger!!!

wp_rathead

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Christ some people really do go overboard in dissecting unimportant tidbits.

It is a thread about a specific episode of Game of Thrones in a Game of Thrones forum.. what exactly did you expect?

wp_rathead

Bart Mars wrote: »

And what the hell happened to that lad in yhe box the baldy chaped with no balls had delivered to him last season !

I'm guessing he starved to death - he was kept in a box that was nailed shut so unlikely getting anything to eat or drink. He was the sorcerer that castrated Varys as a child. That said ya never know with GoT- by season 6 he could be sitting on the Iron Throne :pac:

ben.schlomo

wprathead wrote: »

It is a thread about a specific episode of Game of Thrones in a Game of Thrones forum.. what exactly did you expect?

I expect discussion of the more important storyline arcs as opposed to how someone can or cant swing a sword indoors, but sure have it there, ye are playing a blinder.

ben.schlomo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Like you're doing with this rather inconsequential thread?

That doesnt make any sense, why is thread inconsequential? Now back to discussing whose sword swung highest with you.

acon2119

I Know Game of Thrones is rated 18 but I have been told a lot of 13 and 14 year olds are watching it, I know nothing about it and I know its an individuals choice what age they think its suitable for so I would just like an opinion on it. I have read lots of reviews and some say its no big deal and some say there's ALOT of violence and graphic sexual content in it.

Dan_Solo

acon2119 wrote: »

I Know Game of Thrones is rated 18 but I have been told a lot of 13 and 14 year olds are watching it, I know nothing about it and I know its an individuals choice what age they think its suitable for so I would just like an opinion on it. I have read lots of reviews and some say its no big deal and some say there's ALOT of violence and graphic sexual content in it.

Graphic on-screen rape and crucified children? Definitely 18s.

ben.schlomo

acon2119 wrote: »

I Know Game of Thrones is rated 18 but I have been told a lot of 13 and 14 year olds are watching it, I know nothing about it and I know its an individuals choice what age they think its suitable for so I would just like an opinion on it. I have read lots of reviews and some say its no big deal and some say there's ALOT of violence and graphic sexual content in it.

Ya but whats that got to do with how high Jons sword was?:cool:

Dan_Solo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

That doesnt make any sense, why is thread inconsequential? Now back to discussing whose sword swung highest with you.

It makes loads of sense, except to the pooh pooh brigade.
This thread is even more inconsequential than whether Jon is good or crap swordsman in GoT, the entirety of which is inconsequential as it is an entirely fictitious story set in an imaginary alternate dimension with different laws of physics.
Commenting on the relative "triviality" of some specific part of this thread is a bit ridiculous.

Dan_Solo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I expect discussion of the more important storyline arcs as opposed to how someone can or cant swing a sword indoors, but sure have it there, ye are playing a blinder.

Yes SIR!
I hadn't realised you had been appointed guardian of the sanctity of this holy thread. Could you please list precisely what topics are suitable for future discussion under your new stewardship?

Grimebox

acon2119 wrote: »

I Know Game of Thrones is rated 18 but I have been told a lot of 13 and 14 year olds are watching it, I know nothing about it and I know its an individuals choice what age they think its suitable for so I would just like an opinion on it. I have read lots of reviews and some say its no big deal and some say there's ALOT of violence and graphic sexual content in it.

I think it's fine for someone that age. It definitely warrants the 18's label but obviously I think those ratings are ultimately flawed

K_user

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I expect discussion of the more important storyline arcs as opposed to how someone can or cant swing a sword indoors, but sure have it there, ye are playing a blinder.

If you don't like it, talk about something that interests you, rather than bad mouthing others.

Its easy to slate the conversation from behind the couch.

K_user

Grimebox wrote: »

I think it's fine for someone that age. It definitely warrants the 18's label but obviously I think those ratings are ultimately flawed

I've shown my 12 year old a few bits and pieces. Mainly the stuff with Dragons and a couple of the less graphic fight scenes.

But there isn't a chance in hell I'd let him watch a full episode.