What goes in to Value Minced Beef ?

Seamus1964

I noticed it contains a lot (a lot lot) more fat than normal minced meat.
Other than that it seems to be fairly ok for cooking chilli con carne or bolognese or even burgers.

Watching lately all those food educational tv shows where they show what goes in to burgers, sausages etc. made me wonder what those (Lidl, Aldi, Tesco) value 750g -800 g mince meat packs really do containing?

Some nasty body parts ?
Added water?
Defo a lot more fatty parts than normal mince indeed..

whomitconcerns

Seamus1964 wrote: »

I noticed it contains a lot (a lot lot) more fat than normal minced meat.
Other than that it seems to be fairly ok for cooking chilli con carne or bolognese or even burgers.

Watching lately all those food educational tv shows where they show what goes in to burgers, sausages etc. made me wonder what those (Lidl, Aldi, Tesco) value 750g -800 g mince meat packs really do containing?

Some nasty body parts ?
Added water?
Defo a lot more fatty parts than normal mince indeed..

Well not being a food whateverist I would go by the rule

Round steak mince is round steak minced, fillet beef minced is fillet beef, etc

Value Minced beef is whatever is left minced up....no better or no worse nutrition wise...any minced beef can have any amount of fat in it. Only diffeence is what parts of teh cow are minced to make it

andy1249

I was unfortunate enough to have to work in the "food industry" for a while , by that I mean a very well known and respected retailer in Ireland .... So you want to know what goes into mince , all the crap off the floor and anything looking a funny colour and about a day from being unfit to eat , that's what.

You want decent mince , buy good meat and have it minced in front of you.

All these pre-packed value items , who knows whats in them , and if you care about what you eat you should stay well away from them.

Most retailers used the mincers and the sausage machines to sell stuff they otherwise couldn't , that's a fact.

Me , Ive seen what goes on , and would never in a million years buy pre packed mince. No one who has seen it would !

mickman

andy1249 wrote: »

I was unfortunate enough to have to work in the "food industry" for a while , by that I mean a very well known and respected retailer in Ireland .... So you want to know what goes into mince , all the crap off the floor and anything looking a funny colour and about a day from being unfit to eat , that's what.

You want decent mince , buy good meat and have it minced in front of you.

All these pre-packed value items , who knows whats in them , and if you care about what you eat you should stay well away from them.

Most retailers used the mincers and the sausage machines to sell stuff they otherwise couldn't , that's a fact.

Me , Ive seen what goes on , and would never in a million years buy pre packed mince. No one who has seen it would !

Interesting - would you buy mince from the butcher thats not pre packed but is pre minced ?

Alf Veedersane

andy1249 wrote: »

I was unfortunate enough to have to work in the "food industry" for a while , by that I mean a very well known and respected retailer in Ireland .... So you want to know what goes into mince , all the crap off the floor and anything looking a funny colour and about a day from being unfit to eat , that's what.

You want decent mince , buy good meat and have it minced in front of you.

All these pre-packed value items , who knows whats in them , and if you care about what you eat you should stay well away from them.

Most retailers used the mincers and the sausage machines to sell stuff they otherwise couldn't , that's a fact.

Me , Ive seen what goes on , and would never in a million years buy pre packed mince. No one who has seen it would !

Correct me if I'm wrong but do a lot of places use a power hose on the carcasses to get off the last bits of meat to use in mince/sausages?

irishmanmick

It will tell you by the packaging. The mince will be graded in VL. So it will say 98VL , 90VL or 80VL.

That represents the lean meat / fat ratio. SO 98VL is 98% lean meat, 90VL is 90% lean meat etc etc. Typically value mince would be 80VL, therefore 80% lean 20% fat. Can be worse can be better.

As for bits off the floor etc, honestly that doesn't happen. I work in beef processing industry and it has some of the highest QC in any industry. Buy the pre-packaged mince if retailers are doing that.

Dan_Solo

Isn't it the case though that there isn't a hell of a lot of difference in fat content between fat and muscle anyway. The difference between "80% lean" and "100% lean" wouldn't even be worth bothering about.

Davei141

andy1249 wrote: »

I was unfortunate enough to have to work in the "food industry" for a while , by that I mean a very well known and respected retailer in Ireland .... So you want to know what goes into mince , all the crap off the floor and anything looking a funny colour and about a day from being unfit to eat , that's what.

You want decent mince , buy good meat and have it minced in front of you.

All these pre-packed value items , who knows whats in them , and if you care about what you eat you should stay well away from them.

Most retailers used the mincers and the sausage machines to sell stuff they otherwise couldn't , that's a fact.

Me , Ive seen what goes on , and would never in a million years buy pre packed mince. No one who has seen it would !

So something that was a day from going off is suddenly magically OK to eat for the next few days after being minced. Sounds legit.

conzy

I'd usually buy 7% or 12% fat mince in Lidl.

Their 7% is actually great value, 500g for 3.29 which is cheaper and leaner than their "premium" packaged stuff

El_Dangeroso

andy1249 wrote: »

I was unfortunate enough to have to work in the "food industry" for a while , by that I mean a very well known and respected retailer in Ireland .... So you want to know what goes into mince , all the crap off the floor and anything looking a funny colour and about a day from being unfit to eat , that's what.

You want decent mince , buy good meat and have it minced in front of you.

All these pre-packed value items , who knows whats in them , and if you care about what you eat you should stay well away from them.

Most retailers used the mincers and the sausage machines to sell stuff they otherwise couldn't , that's a fact.

Me , Ive seen what goes on , and would never in a million years buy pre packed mince. No one who has seen it would !

Are you serious? If you are then you have a moral duty to report what you saw to the food safety authority.

But I sense a bit of hyperbole in the 'crap off the floor' statement.:)

I don't know why people get all weird about eating the less desirable bits of an animal. All the sinuwy meat that would be too tough in a whole cut, is the stuff that contains all the collagen, and that's really good for you.

rubadub

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Are you serious? If you are then you have a moral duty to report what you saw to the food safety authority.

I take all these stories with a pinch of salt.

I have never heard a good reason why such an unusual amount of degenerates would be attracted to the food industry, like in cathal brugha do they have classes for chefs on contaminating returned steaks, "next week we have spitting in food, be sure to be well hydrated". DO career guidance guys go looking around the schoolyards for filthy unhygienic scumbags or something? "you picking your nose & arse, you'll make a great chef"

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

All the sinuwy meat that would be too tough in a whole cut, is the stuff that contains all the collagen, and that's really good for you.

Thats what I was wondering, if it is actually better. The thing that puts me off is that I have gotten bones a few times in tesco cheapo mince, never in dunnes cheap mince but I get that less.

mickman wrote: »

Interesting - would you buy mince from the butcher thats not pre packed but is pre minced ?

I did hear an ex-butcher tell me they added pork to beef and had a red dye. This sounds more believable to me than the pointless gross out stories, there was a good reason to be doing it.

Some will ask the butcher to mince it there & then.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but do a lot of places use a power hose on the carcasses to get off the last bits of meat to use in mince/sausages?

I think this method turns it into mush, and they might have to label it as mechanically removed. It might go into cheapo burgers or meatballs but most prepackaged mince is not all mashed together but is strands, so I don't think you would use it in mince.

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

Thats what I was wondering, if it is actually better. The thing that puts me off is that I have gotten bones a few times in tesco cheapo mince, never in dunnes cheap mince but I get that less.

Yeah, you don't want bone, that's a bit much, not bad for you, but you could chip a tooth!

siochain

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I don't know why people get all weird about eating the less desirable bits of an animal. All the sinuwy meat that would be too tough in a whole cut, is the stuff that contains all the collagen, and that's really good for you.

Folks sometimes there is a rare golden nugget of excellent info on this forum don't pass it up.

Collagen FTW

MugMugs

When I go into a butchers, I ask them to mince the round steak in front of me as I've found when I buy the pre minced stuff, it just doesn't cut the grade.

Also, Aldi do lean mince for 2.99 and pretty much nothing comes off it when fried.

TimeToShine

What goes into those really cheap burgers you can get in Tesco/Spar? The ones that are like 8 for 1.29 or so and are usually coloured brown, if the bargain mince is "bad" then this stuff must be on a completely different level.

My rule is if the beef is red then buy it, if it's brown don't touch it. It has worked so far!

redbuck

Went in to a local butchers in Mayo and got some mince once, I ended up not having enough so had to go to another butchers and get more. One set of mince was red like it should be the mince from the first butcher's was a greyish brown colour, it turned my stomach when I seen the difference between good quality and bad quality mince.

Alf Veedersane

redbuck wrote: »

One set of mince was red like it should be the mince from the first butcher's was a greyish brown colour, it turned my stomach when I seen the difference between good quality and bad quality mince.

The colour isn't necessarily to do with quality.

It's usually more to do with how fresh it is or how recent the meat has been minced.

Dan_Solo

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The colour isn't necessarily to do with quality.

It's usually more to do with how fresh it is or how recent the meat has been minced.

I've defrosted mince that went in a bright red and it came out a greeny-brown. No problems at all eating it. I don't think it's anything to do with age myself, but I don't know for sure. More like it just dries out or something.

rubadub

I think it goes brown as it oxidizes, like a cut apple, doesn't automatically mean its "bad". The prepackaged mince is usually filled with inert gas, so it cannot oxidise, like it might have nitrogen in it so no oxygen is present.

Prepackaged mince is usually nice & separated these days, without going brown. I think part of the reason butcher mince is usually pressed together is to stop it going brown.

Prepackaged mince will go brown in the fridge at the end where you opened it.

larrymiller

Watch out for the horse burgers Aswell.
May I ad that a difference in quality could come from the animal.
Butcher A May sell you grade a steak or steak mince from a nice young Angus heifer. It will be the best but at a price
Butcher B might be selling a 10 year old cow that was culled. Cheaper and less quality and smaller cut offs.

Also I would never buy meat in super market. Just a personal thing, they are always trying to squeeze every penny and cut ever corner to save a dime

_Brian

larrymiller wrote: »

Watch out for the horse burgers Aswell.
May I ad that a difference in quality could come from the animal.
Butcher A May sell you grade a steak or steak mince from a nice young Angus heifer. It will be the best but at a price
Butcher B might be selling a 10 year old cow that was culled. Cheaper and less quality and smaller cut offs.

Also I would never buy meat in super market. Just a personal thing, they are always trying to squeeze every penny and cut ever corner to save a dime

This is a great point. We farm beef and one reason for "less that prime" beef can be attributed to the proportion of young to old meat processed.
Cows only have one calf per year, so take over a 5 year period that is a ratio of 5:1 young to old animals hitting the factory floor..
Compare that to pork where a sow will have maybe 20 piglets a year, so over the five years thats a 100:1 ratio.

Now, there is nothing wrong with the meat from an older animal, but it would need to be cooked slower and longer for decent results, but the beef industry don't differentiate so sometimes the customer is dissappointed.

Another thing I've noticed is how our taste for particular cuts of meat has narrowed over the last 40 years. There was a time when near all parts of a cow would be available to buy in a butchers shop and people bought them each for their own merit, same for pigs, the old "you can eat everything except the Oink" phrase springs to mind.. Not any more, yes your value mince will contain the less desirable parts of the animal, but they won't do you any harm, they're perfectly good nutritionally.

Alf Veedersane

_Brian wrote: »

Another thing I've noticed is how our taste for particular cuts of meat has narrowed over the last 40 years. There was a time when near all parts of a cow would be available to buy in a butchers shop and people bought them each for their own merit, same for pigs, the old "you can eat everything except the Oink" phrase springs to mind.. Not any more, yes your value mince will contain the less desirable parts of the animal, but they won't do you any harm, they're perfectly good nutritionally.

I'd say it even narrowed more in the last 10 years more than the previous 30.

"It's a fillet or nothing!".

Dan_Solo

_Brian wrote: »

Another thing I've noticed is how our taste for particular cuts of meat has narrowed over the last 40 years. There was a time when near all parts of a cow would be available to buy in a butchers shop and people bought them each for their own merit, same for pigs, the old "you can eat everything except the Oink" phrase springs to mind.. Not any more, yes your value mince will contain the less desirable parts of the animal, but they won't do you any harm, they're perfectly good nutritionally.

Bang on the money.
As far as nutrition goes, there's virtually no difference between round steak and dropping the whole cow through a mincer. Things like lamb's liver and kidneys are virtually extinct in our supermarkets, never mind the pork version of same.
The real problem is gone off meat entering the food chain, not what cut or even animal it is.

larrymiller

The real problem is gone off meat entering the food chain, not what cut or even animal it is.[/quote]

On the last part is like to add that Angus beef and Hereford beef is more in demand because of various reasons such as more tender etc.
If I had a continental bullock with big muscles it would make a difference as there's less fat on it and in many cases the consumer doesn't want that.
Sorry for dragging this off topic.

argolis

If you want an idea of what they do to get some of the lowest quality "meat" out there, read the Wikipedia article on Mechanically Separated Meat. Some of it might be a bit stomach churning so be warned!

One of the main problems is making sure that the companies that do it leave out the bits they're supposed to leave out when scraping the last remnants off a carcass e.g. around the spine and skull and bone marrow, which is stuff which has been associated with transmitting the likes of BSE to humans. Whether it should be labelled meat is another question I'd have...

Bananaleaf

I remember watching a documentary where it said that sausages had to have a certain amount of pork in them to be called "pork sausages" so definitely rule out any sausages labelled with just the word "sausages"

Also, a friend who worked in a butchers once told be a similar story that "mince" labelled as such could actually be a mixture of a number of meats. Not sure that that is a bad thing, or even if it's true to be honest, but thought I'd post it up for your information anyway.

Seamus1964

"Mechanically separated meat" process applies "how to make value sausages and similar" not to "value minced meat" or might be only in US

Stheno

_Brian wrote: »

Another thing I've noticed is how our taste for particular cuts of meat has narrowed over the last 40 years. There was a time when near all parts of a cow would be available to buy in a butchers shop and people bought them each for their own merit, same for pigs, the old "you can eat everything except the Oink" phrase springs to mind.. Not any more, yes your value mince will contain the less desirable parts of the animal, but they won't do you any harm, they're perfectly good nutritionally.

I find it depends on the butchers, I use a craft butcher, and know that if e.g. I want what I call flank, and they call skirt steak, that if I just let them know in advance they will get it in for me. Now this guy is no ordinary butcher, if you want something unusual he'll ask why, and give advice on the dish etc. He also does gluten free sausages, and has won awards in European competitions for the stuff he makes.

They normally have multiple types of liver (beef/pork/lamb/chicken) and will happily get in any "abnormal" cut that they are asked for

My local supermarket is a very large independant and have a superb butchers who are almost on a par with my butchers.

If I go to a budget butchers they just buy all the stuff in, so you can't get anything unusual.

ryan101

My mate worked in a meat processing plant for a few years, he said you would not believe what he seen going into burgers and mince, from eyballs, to ears, to you name it.

Davei141

ryan101 wrote: »

My mate worked in a meat processing plant for a few years, he said you would not believe what he seen going into burgers and mince, from eyballs, to ears, to you name it.

That is a problem why? The idea of people happily eating a cows arse but freaking at an eyeball or an ear makes me laugh.

El_Dangeroso

ryan101 wrote: »

My mate worked in a meat processing plant for a few years, he said you would not believe what he seen going into burgers and mince, from eyballs, to ears, to you name it.

It's always a 'friend' funnily. Ears, maybe, but not too many, they are mainly cartilidge and you'd know fairly quick from the texture if there were.

Eyes? Give me a break, eyes actually have a very distinctive flavour (read not something western tastes would appreciate) and a watery, gooey texture.

I'm sorry but I believe your friend was bullshitting you.

ryan101

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm sorry but I believe your friend was bullshitting you.

Well I don't know what kind of friends you have, but I know this person does not bullshyte, so I have the advantage over your mere belief.

There was lots more that went into it, I can't remember half the stuff he saw going in. It doesn't bother me what you think, seeing as I don't eat mince any more, and he also refuses to eat any minced product since.
You however can eat away at it utill your heart is content, it won't bother me what you eat.

To anyone neutral reading this, if you want mince, pick your meat out at the counter and ask your butcher to mince it for you.

pwurple

TimeToShine wrote: »

My rule is if the beef is red then buy it, if it's brown don't touch it. It has worked so far!

I would normally avoid bright red beef in general, as it means it hasn't been hung or aged properly. Good quality beef should be a dark colour, almost purple, with not much liquid coming out of it. You won't usually find that in a supermarket.

TireeTerror

You're all going to turn me vegetarian if you keep this up.

Alf Veedersane

I heard, fro ma friend of a friend, that failed jockeys were thrown into mincing machines that produced pre-packed mince for supermarkets.

El_Dangeroso

I think this gif accurately sums up my reaction to this thread.

ryan101

Looks like he was told smoking causes cancer

rubadub

TireeTerror wrote: »

You're all going to turn me vegetarian if you keep this up.

my mate works on a farm, says they mix actual cow & horse shit into the ground that the veg grows in, there's no getting away from the gross out tales.

ryan101

rubadub wrote: »

my mate works on a farm, says they mix actual cow & horse shit into the ground that the veg grows in, there's no getting away from the gross out tales.

Do you think that is the same ?

_Brian

rubadub wrote: »

my mate works on a farm, says they mix actual cow & horse shit into the ground that the veg grows in, there's no getting away from the gross out tales.

I don't quite understand if your being sartastic or not ?
If yur not then this is the saddest commend I've seen on boards.ie in quite some time..

If you are... well, I've often been behind the curve on sarcism .

TimeToShine

_Brian wrote: »

I don't quite understand if your being sartastic or not ?
If yur not then this is the saddest commend I've seen on boards.ie in quite some time..

If you are... well, I've often been behind the curve on sarcism .

It's true, cow and horse **** is a tremendous fertilizer.

Alf Veedersane

Even if eyes and ears did go into mince, I'm not sure I'd be all that bothered.

Sure, I'd prefer higher quality meat going into it but I don't know why different parts of the cow should cause such horror.

_Brian

TimeToShine wrote: »

It's true, cow and horse **** is a tremendous fertilizer.

Ya, being a farmer I realise that... I was shocked that anybody wouldn't be aware of it.

bur

rubadub wrote: »

I think this method turns it into mush, and they might have to label it as mechanically removed. It might go into cheapo burgers or meatballs but most prepackaged mince is not all mashed together but is strands, so I don't think you would use it in mince.

Ah, this explains the cheap Lidl mince then. My reaction when i was trying to make burgers with it was literally "wtf is this mush?"

still tasted good though.

rubadub

_Brian wrote: »

I don't quite understand if your being sartastic or not ?

Yep, I was just taking the piss.

Dan_Solo

ryan101 wrote: »

My mate worked in a meat processing plant for a few years, he said you would not believe what he seen going into burgers and mince, from eyballs, to ears, to you name it.

So? Are cow eyes poisonous?!?!
As long as it's nutritionally the same, not gone off, and tastes good enough for you, who cares?
Do you think lions and tigers don't go for the "bad" bits and look how fine and strong those lads are.

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

my mate works on a farm, says they mix actual cow & horse shit into the ground that the veg grows in, there's no getting away from the gross out tales.

And there's actual rat shit in bread! And eggs come from a chicken's bottom! If you thought about it too much you'd never eat anything.

Don't listen to these urban myth friend of a friend stories, eat as good quality food as you can afford, and leave the fretting to the hypochondriacs.

ryan101

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So? Are cow eyes poisonous?!?!
As long as it's nutritionally the same, not gone off, and tastes good enough for you, who cares?
Do you think lions and tigers don't go for the "bad" bits and look how fine and strong those lads are.

You're not in after hours now Dan.
As this is the health & fitness, nutrition and diet forum, some people prefer to know what they are eating and what they choose to eat.

_Brian

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

And there's actual rat shit in bread! And eggs come from a chicken's bottom! If you thought about it too much you'd never eat anything.

Don't listen to these urban myth friend of a friend stories, eat as good quality food as you can afford, and leave the fretting to the hypochondriacs.

Good advice..
And if you eat as varied as possible a diet as you can manage then you are minimising the impact of the production method of any particular food source.. People who consistantly and regularly eat the same small number of processed foods are susceptable to the production method of that food.

Alf Veedersane

Everyone knows that sausages are usually made with a pig's foreskin, ankle skin, ears, ballbag and whatever else. Plenty of people still eat sausages.

El_Dangeroso

_Brian wrote: »

Good advice..
And if you eat as varied as possible a diet as you can manage then you are minimising the impact of the production method of any particular food source.. People who consistantly and regularly eat the same small number of processed foods are susceptable to the production method of that food.

That's so true, people usually eat an average of 8-10 foods. If that seems low try counting ingredients of the food you eat, I bet even the most varied eater would struggle to get past 25, a consequence of our very industrialised food system.