Anomaly Scan Campaign

psychnurse

I can't really help with the care in Ireland as I am living in another European country at the moment, but I can tell you about our standard of care here. I am 25 weeks on my second pregnancy here and the care is excellent. You get scanned at your very first appointment (this is important to me as I have very irregular periods and to go by my dates has proven to be very inaccurate for both pregnancies). You are then seen by a midwife and a doctor every 4 weeks until 27 weeks, every 3 weeks until 35 weeks and then weekly until birth. A 12 week NT scan and 10 week NT bloods are standard (abortion is illegal here, but not for FFA) and an anatomy scan is standard also. From 39 weeks you get a CTG every morning until birth to monitor the baby. I know there is debate as to whether this is necessary or not but I had some issues late in my last pregnancy and this was vitally important in my case. A glucose test is standard also.

Between these two pregnancies we were debating whether or not to return home to Ireland, and I have to say the prenatal care was a huge factor for us NOT to come home. My local hospital would have been Limerick Maternity and I don't think I could have coped with just two scans, neither of which being an NT or anatomy scan. The care I receive here is through the public health sector and I cannot fault it for one second. It is always scary having a baby in a country that isn't your own, but right now I feel it would be far scarier to come home and have a baby.

madeinamerica

Thanks psychnurse, great to see how other European systems do it. IMO such comparisons would be very useful in stating the case (and perhaps shaming some of the powers that be into change).

I'm not much use as I'm currently in the US and while I am getting more scans, appointments, tests etc than I would at home, it is hard to compare as it depends on your health insurance here. I'm just lucky I get kinda good health insurance with my job. I dread to think what it is like for pregnant women (or anyone) without it. I hope that Ireland never copies the US system as in general is it way, way worse than Ireland. That being said, we can still do better and I now would think twice about where I'll have my next child.

Can you explain some of your terms for me? I'm not familiar with CTG, FFA. I guess NT is nuchal (sp?) translucency? First-timer here. Thanks.

psychnurse

CTG is CardioTocoGraph. I think it is called a Non Stress Test too. Where they monitor baby's heart rate and movement for 30 minutes. I had pregnancy induced hypertension and spent 6 weeks on betablockers and bed rest and had a LOT of CTGs in my last pregnancy. I was obviously concerned for baby and myself during this time but the doctors were amazing. They wouldn't even discuss induction with me and said unless something serious happened with my blood pressure I would be left go 14 days over because they didn't want to risk an unnecessary section if the baby wasn't ready to come out. As it turns out I was induced at 40+3 because bed rest and meds were not keeping my blood pressure controlled but it was an on the spot decision when I went for a CTG one morning. I know a girl in Ireland who is currently due the same time as me and has had her induction date from 16 weeks.

FFA is Fatal Fetal Abnormalities. The country I am in is very religious, far more so than Ireland yet they don't believe in making you carry a baby to full term that won't survive. And yes NT is the nuchal translucany.

What is very amusing to me is that my European Health Insurance Card is what covers my care here (I am still technically an Irish resident as I am on a leave of absence from the HSE, so I am entitled to use it for the duration of my stay here) and the bill for my last pregnancy was sent to Ireland. So they are paying for me to get far superior care here, instead of, in my opinion, substandard care at home. Having spoken at length with the Irish embassy here I know that many Irish women have been in the same situation as me and we all were advised to take advantage of using the card. It must be the same in other European countries too.

I don't know did I clarify in my previous post but I get scanned every time I see the doctor, so I think I get about 15 scans in total throughout the pregnancy. They are quick scans most of the time, but even these have shown up issues, such as the beginning of incompetent cervix, in a friend of mine. Again this time around I have pregnancy induced hypertension and the placental blood flow is checked every single time I go to the doctor as it can cause growth restriction. I had to be referred to nephrology after my 10 week appointment as there were some abnormalities with my bloods and I was given an appointment for 2 days later. Not because I am pregnant but because that is how quickly you are seen in the public sector here.

lazygal

I hope its ok with mods if I post the reply I've received from AIMS as follows:

Thanks so much for getting in touch and for sending us on the thread. AIMS Ireland also has serious concerns about the fact that there is no national policy to ensure routine anomaly scans are available to all pregnant women in Ireland, should they wish to avail of them.

Although we have no national guidelines in Ireland on ultrasound during pregnancy, the NICE Guidelines in the UK are evidenced-based and considered best international practice. They recommend that if a woman chooses, she should be offered an early pregnancy scan between 10 - 12 weeks to date the pregnancy and then another scan between 18 - 20 weeks to screen for structural anomalies. They further recommend that no routine ultrasound scanning should take place after 24 weeks until a pregnancy has reached over 42 weeks. The guidelines are available at the following link: http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG062PublicInfo.pdf It is a detailed document, so you might find the information you are looking for quicker if you searched for the term "ultrasound".

You might also be interested in the following article that was published in the Evening Herald in January which says maternity units in Ireland are breaching rules for foetal scans.

http://www.herald.ie/news/maternity-units-breaching-rules-on-foetal-scans-29892335.html

If you were to begin a campaign or petition to demand all women receive ultrasound anomaly scans if they so choose, AIMS Ireland would be happy to promote it on our social media channels. We would also recommend that perhaps you contact the organisation Termination For Medical Reasons (TFMR) who may also be interested in supporting such a campaign. Their website is here: http://www.terminationformedicalreasons.com/

You may also be interested in this series of articles on ultrasound during pregnancy that we published on our blog 42 weeks earlier this year. It details how ultrasounds work, the risks and benefits, the various options and the research behind ultrasound scans in pregnancy.

http://42weeks.ie/2013/11/15/ultrasound-scans-part-1-how-can-a-scan-help-you-and-your-baby/

http://42weeks.ie/2013/11/20/ultrasound-scans-part-2-types-of-scans/

http://42weeks.ie/2013/11/29/ultrasound-scans-part-3-key-questions-to-consider/

Do send us on any information that we can publicise for you.

madeinamerica

interesting article on the lack of data and accountability in irish health care system, obstetrics gets a mention. Would be relevant for these kind of scans or lack of them, as they are all data for the system

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/health-service-failing-patients-says-departing-hiqa-chief-1.1808738

January

I'm going to mail one of the girls who started the TFMR campaign. She posts on magicmum a good bit and we've PM'd a few times.

AshAdele

http://aimsireland.ie/international-day-of-action-for-womens-health-closing-the-gaps-in-maternity-care-in-ireland/

AIMS Ireland have produced 28 demands for our health service and government! (including a right to an anomaly scan fro every pregnant women!)

How can YOU participate?
Send this list of demands – add ones of your own, to your elected representatives, to policy makers, to the HSE, to your local maternity unit. Share your stories. AIMS Ireland will be posting articles, quotes, and questions to women on our Facebook page – asking for you to add YOUR voice to this global campaign by raising awareness to Human Rights issues in Irish Childbirth - pressing the Government to REALISE THESE RIGHTS.

AIMS have a wonderful facebook ands website which are worth having a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/aims.ireland
http://aimsireland.ie/

5unlover

Hey Hun tks,I just stopped checking back in cause,I couldnt see any new posts from the ladies,we all were due in February,just like 2 know how they are feeling.did anyone have the anomaly scan.i am waiting on a anomaly scan.just wondering what's it's like.is true some people seem to think,it can cause miscarriage

Dolbert

5unlover wrote: »

Hey Hun tks,I just stopped checking back in cause,I couldnt see any new posts from the ladies,we all were due in February,just like 2 know how they are feeling.did anyone have the anomaly scan.i am waiting on a anomaly scan.just wondering what's it's like.is true some people seem to think,it can cause miscarriage

An ultrasound can't cause a miscarriage.

Neyite

5unlover wrote: »

Hey Hun tks,I just stopped checking back in cause,I couldnt see any new posts from the ladies,we all were due in February,just like 2 know how they are feeling.did anyone have the anomaly scan.i am waiting on a anomaly scan.just wondering what's it's like.is true some people seem to think,it can cause miscarriage

If that was the case, then the stats for miscarriage would be far higher than they are, and second and third trimester losses would be greater, considering most scans are done after the first trimester when the majority of pregnancy losses occur. So no, they cant cause miscarriage.

5unlover

Do u know the Internet is great for sum things,but sum times it would frightened the life out of u.tks for commenting

5unlover

Count me in I have been reading all yer posts.health care in Ireland is such a joke.i have 2 pay 500euros for my scan.how can anybody afford this it's crazy.everyone should get Anomally scan.i think we have paid enough tax into the system

Ocean Blue

5unlover wrote: »

Count me in I have been reading all yer posts.health care in Ireland is such a joke.i have 2 pay 500euros for my scan.how can anybody afford this it's crazy.everyone should get Anomally scan.i think we have paid enough tax into the system

I have never heard anyone pay quite that much for a scan. Is it paying an extra fee charged by your private consultant or are you going to a scan clinic - babyscan.ie or similar?

Millem

Ocean Blue wrote: »

I have never heard anyone pay quite that much for a scan. Is it paying an extra fee charged by your private consultant or are you going to a scan clinic - babyscan.ie or similar?

Maybe it was harmony test or panorama?

lazygal

5unlover wrote: »

Count me in I have been reading all yer posts.health care in Ireland is such a joke.i have 2 pay 500euros for my scan.how can anybody afford this it's crazy.everyone should get Anomally scan.i think we have paid enough tax into the system

Where do you have to pay that? We paid 150 per anomaly scan in the private clinic in Holles Street. I know someone who had to wait over an hour for her scan in the same clinic and they didn't charge her because of the delay. Even private scanning clinics such as Babyscan don't charge 500 for any ultrasound pregnancy scan. Was it combined with other tests?

I haven't forgotten about this campaign BTW. I'd love input on what to do about getting things moving on it.

Ocean Blue

Millem wrote: »

Maybe it was harmony test or panorama?

Well fair enough in that case. However the post made it sound as if it was an anomaly scan.

eviltwin

Great thread. I had both my children in the Rotunda as a public patient and had anomoly scans for both which were hughly reassuring. I can't believe this scan isn't available to all. I do agree its possibly partly down to the lack of TFMR here although the usual reasons of costs, cutbacks etc will be given.

5unlover

Ocean Blue wrote: »

I have never heard anyone pay quite that much for a scan. Is it paying an extra fee charged by your private consultant or are you going to a scan clinic - babyscan.ie or similar?

Hey my doctor recommended me to go private cause of my age,I am 43 so he rang the clinic and was quoted 500 euro I know I am shocked.

lazygal

5unlover wrote: »

Hey my doctor recommended me to go private cause of my age,I am 43 so he rang the clinic and was quoted 500 euro I know I am shocked.

What clinic is it? Private clinics wouldn't charge that much.

Merkin

€500 seems really exorbitant. If you dig up a couple of price lists for private providers, they are quoting significantly less. I'd shop around if I were you!

http://www.imff.ie/pricing.cfm

http://corkmotherandbabyscans.ie/fees.php

Millem

lazygal wrote: »

What clinic is it? Private clinics wouldn't charge that much.

I honestly think it must be for harmony or panorama test. I wonder if it was in early days of pregnancy like 9 weeks or 12 weeks?

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Just as a matter of interest, where is the cheapest place to get a private anomaly scan done? They don't do them as standard in Limerick maternity so if they don't scan me at my next appointment, I'm going to book a private one. Cheapest I have found is €160 from ultrasoundsuite.ie in Dublin. It's disgraceful that anomaly scans aren't mandatory, my first scan this time was at 10 weeks, which is too early to tell anything really, and my next scheduled scan isn't until 28 weeks

Chattastrophe!

Vincenzo Dry Strap wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, where is the cheapest place to get a private anomaly scan done? They don't do them as standard in Limerick maternity so if they don't scan me at my next appointment, I'm going to book a private one. Cheapest I have found is €160 from ultrasoundsuite.ie in Dublin. It's disgraceful that anomaly scans aren't mandatory, my first scan this time was at 10 weeks, which is too early to tell anything really, and my next scheduled scan isn't until 28 weeks

Keep an eye on the deals websites, I've seen them occasionally for €99 there. Also, do you have health insurance? My VHI covers up to €100 for one scan during pregnancy - I didn't actually find out about this until after the birth, however I was lucky enough to get regular scans anyways on the public system.

I'd say it would be worth ringing around the private scan centres, they could well be willing to do a good deal for you, especially if you'd be in a position to accept an appointment with short notice.

lazygal

We paid 150 for an anomaly scan in the Merrion Clinic in Holles Street.

yamiki

Some good news regarding the anomaly scans in Portiuncula (Ballinasloe) -
They now DO offer anomaly scans! (a fetal wellbeing scan, they call it). It's optional, but sure why wouldn't you. From what I can see they started offering them since late 2013 - I know when I was there with my first, in early 2013, they didn't offer this scan, and it annoyed me to no end.
Happy days!

spottybananas

yamiki wrote: »

Some good news regarding the anomaly scans in Portiuncula (Ballinasloe) -
They now DO offer anomaly scans! (a fetal wellbeing scan, they call it). It's optional, but sure why wouldn't you. From what I can see they started offering them since late 2013 - I know when I was there with my first, in early 2013, they didn't offer this scan, and it annoyed me to no end.
Happy days!

I was just told yesterday by a private scan company that they don't offer it there, after just reading this post a few hours earlier. That's great news, saves €100! I'm not surprised they offer it since late 2013 given just one birth I know of there last summer where a massive problem with the baby's body was missed by the staff until quite a few hours after birth.

prutyok

Hi everyone! I am 19 weeks pregnant, going to Portiuncula , Ballinasloe Hospital. If its true that they offer the scan, how can i book it? Btw good luck with everyone

spottybananas

prutyok wrote: »

Hi everyone! I am 19 weeks pregnant, going to Portiuncula , Ballinasloe Hospital. If its true that they offer the scan, how can i book it? Btw good luck with everyone

Can you call and ask them, or ask at your 20 week scan?

prutyok

Hi again ,I dont have a 20 weeks scan,had one at 14 weeks next one is when I am gona be 27 weeks asked my gp about the amomaly scan and he said you can get it if your pregnancy is high risk .

prutyok

this makes me very sad,3 month without seeing the baby is fine

yamiki

prutyok wrote: »

Hi everyone! I am 19 weeks pregnant, going to Portiuncula , Ballinasloe Hospital. If its true that they offer the scan, how can i book it? Btw good luck with everyone

pm sent (this is OT to the thread, hence the PM)

lisa_celtic

I am 24 weeks and attending Portiunca in Ballinasloe.

I had a fetel well being scan at 20 weeks, this was optional but apparently only one consultant is offering them, and it is a trial so not everyone is offered it.

i am public, first child and got it, others i know who are private same doctor wernt offered it.

jeeney

lisa_celtic wrote: »

I am 24 weeks and attending Portiunca in Ballinasloe.

I had a fetel well being scan at 20 weeks, this was optional but apparently only one consultant is offering them, and it is a trial so not everyone is offered it.

i am public, first child and got it, others i know who are private same doctor wernt offered it.

Hi lisa_celtic,

I've been offered a 20 week scan and am going public. As far as I could gather from my booking apt, it was available to anyone that wanted it (public patients that is).

Could I ask you at your 20 week scan, did you just report to out-patients in Portiuncula and wait your turn there? I can't remember where they told me to go, and just want to make sure! Also, how long roughly did it take you - were you there for a few hours or was it quick enough?

Thanks
Jeeney

lisa_celtic

jeeney wrote: »

Hi lisa_celtic,

I've been offered a 20 week scan and am going public. As far as I could gather from my booking apt, it was available to anyone that wanted it (public patients that is).

Could I ask you at your 20 week scan, did you just report to out-patients in Portiuncula and wait your turn there? I can't remember where they told me to go, and just want to make sure! Also, how long roughly did it take you - were you there for a few hours or was it quick enough?

Thanks
Jeeney

Hi Jeeney,

You go to outpatients to book in then go up to the next floor down through the maternity ward and there is an early pregnancy unit in there that is where your scan is. We had a nurse called collette (i think) she was fantastic she talked through everything she was doing)

Can I ask what DR you are with?

Lisa

jeeney

Great, thanks so much for confirming that Lisa! I'm under Dr. Brassil, but you know yourself you don't always get to see him. (I was under him with my second child and never saw him. But it doesn't matter as I never had any bother with the other doctors)

Can you remember how long it all took? (just that I have to head up the country after the apt, so hoping we won't be there all afternoon!)

thanks
J

lisa_celtic

jeeney wrote: »

Great, thanks so much for confirming that Lisa! I'm under Dr. Brassil, but you know yourself you don't always get to see him. (I was under him with my second child and never saw him. But it doesn't matter as I never had any bother with the other doctors)

Can you remember how long it all took? (just that I have to head up the country after the apt, so hoping we won't be there all afternoon!)

thanks
J

Ya I am under him to, met him at 12 weeks. AS far as I know, now i could be wrong it is just his patients trialling the scan.

My appointment was for 2 but she had to do an emergency scan on someone so I didnt get in till 2.45 and scan took 45mins as she could not get the angles needed as baby was moving so much. I have to go back next Tuesday to have it repeated.

jeeney

lisa_celtic wrote: »

Ya I am under him to, met him at 12 weeks. AS far as I know, now i could be wrong it is just his patients trialling the scan.

My appointment was for 2 but she had to do an emergency scan on someone so I didnt get in till 2.45 and scan took 45mins as she could not get the angles needed as baby was moving so much. I have to go back next Tuesday to have it repeated.

Thanks for that Lisa, most helpful. Yes, that probably makes sense that it's just his patients being trailled.

Good luck with your scan next week.

yamiki

jeeney wrote: »

Hi lisa_celtic,

I've been offered a 20 week scan and am going public. As far as I could gather from my booking apt, it was available to anyone that wanted it (public patients that is).

Could I ask you at your 20 week scan, did you just report to out-patients in Portiuncula and wait your turn there? I can't remember where they told me to go, and just want to make sure! Also, how long roughly did it take you - were you there for a few hours or was it quick enough?

Thanks
Jeeney

That's what I was told, out patients and they'll send you up three weeks to go, can't wait.

jeeney

yamiki wrote: »

That's what I was told, out patients and they'll send you up three weeks to go, can't wait.

Yamiki
How was your anomaly scan? Hope you enjoyed it! I've mine end of next week, can't wait either!

yamiki

jeeney wrote: »

Yamiki
How was your anomaly scan? Hope you enjoyed it! I've mine end of next week, can't wait either!

All good although I was waiting for two hours! And have to go back next week because she couldn't see the heart properly because of how baby was positioned. Might see you there she was ggreat, very thorough.

jeeney

That's good, great to hear that midwife is so thorough. Looking forward all the more now. Hope I don't have as long a wait though...:)

BelindaL

I hady 20 week scan in the early pregnancy unit in portunicla also, I too am under dr brassil (well at this stage im in midwifry led care). Scan took about 50mins. I found it so worrying throughout, she ccouldn't get head measurments for ages anfd having a fairly good understanding of human amatomy (im a nurse) I was constantly looking and wondering rather than enjoying.

Anyway there was a problem with kidneys. Both had excess fluid around them which meant I had to be reffered to Galway to see a fetal medical specialist. Was told it would be in next week or two and 4 weeks on id heard nothing so I started ringing here there and eveywhere and it turns out they forgot to arrange refferal.... so disapointing.

Galway not going to c me cuz ideal time to scan (20weeks) had passed by 5 weeks and im having another anaolmy scan on 21st nov, ill be 33 weeks.

Still though, important scans!!!

spottybananas

That's so annoying Belinda. I've heard of lots of people being told the same thing at the 20 week scan about kidney problems and they often resolve themselves naturally at a later stage so hopefully all is fine with baby.

It's awful the way you have to chase up on things yourself when really we haven't a clue what we're doing and look to them to advise. At my first appt I got history, bloods and scan done and the guy doing the scan said I could leave then, I had to point out I hadn't seen the midwife and the midwife who forgot about me had to be called back for her lunch when I repeatedly asked what was going on. Crazy!

fro9etb8j5qsl2

spottybananas wrote: »

That's so annoying Belinda. I've heard of lots of people being told the same thing at the 20 week scan about kidney problems and they often resolve themselves naturally at a later stage so hopefully all is fine with baby.

It's awful the way you have to chase up on things yourself when really we haven't a clue what we're doing and look to them to advise. At my first appt I got history, bloods and scan done and the guy doing the scan said I could leave then, I had to point out I hadn't seen the midwife and the midwife who forgot about me had to be called back for her lunch when I repeatedly asked what was going on. Crazy!

I was in and out of the maternity with blood pressure during my last pregnancy. I remember them releasing me from the antenatal ward one Friday evening on condition that I would come back into admissions on the Sunday for a bp check and a trace. Came back to admissions on the Sunday only to be told that because it was the weekend, my chart was still up in the antenatal ward and there was no porter on duty to go and get it. I was told I'd have to traipse up myself to get it because they were too busy to go get it for me. Went up myself and it took me about 15 minutes to explain the situation to the midwife on the ward who was looking at me like I was mad. Unsurprisingly after all that, my blood pressure was up and I was admitted again :mad:

Bobbins

Hi all!
First time posting in the pregnancy forums, due our first end of July! 😃 I recently heard that CUMH are going to be carrying out anatomy/anomaly scans routinely for all patients. Just wondering if anyone else has heard this?

ciar21

Hi guys,

Not sure if this is the right place to put this but there is a research study going on in Cork which is looking into pre eclampsia and premature birth. It's called IMPROvED and basically you have 2 extra visits with a midwife and a 20 week growth scan. I know it's not the full anomaly scan but still it's something!

You have to be a first time mum and under 17 weeks!!