Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

bucketybuck

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

They have all the cards tbf...

Hence the term "negotiation".

There is always leverage, and even if we are desperate for a full back we are a rich and powerful club with many options. So what exactly is the hold up?

Schwiiing

bucketybuck wrote: »

Hence the term "negotiation".

There is always leverage, and even if we are desperate for a full back we are a rich and powerful club with many options. So what exactly is the hold up?

We need a quality left back and need to comply with 'home grown' regs. Southampton know this and also know that a decent world cup showing could bring more big clubs sniffing around and a possible bidding war. They're entitled to get the best price for Shaw if they want to sell.

Lord TSC

Honestly, I think the deal is pretty much done; the majority of reports are saying it's a formality.

But the reality is also I can see why Southampton would want to delay it; the WC will boost his price, and the team shouldn't be dismantled when there is no manager. Southampton should be delaying as much as possible. And if a club are steadfast, there is nothing we could do to speed them along (short of overpaying which, after last summer, we will want to avoid...)

And yeah, that's ignoring the problems on our end as Schwiiing said...

Whatsisname

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Honestly, I think the deal is pretty much done; the majority of reports are saying it's a formality.

But the reality is also I can see why Southampton would want to delay it; the WC will boost his price, and the team shouldn't be dismantled when there is no manager. Southampton should be delaying as much as possible. And if a club are steadfast, there is nothing we could do to speed them along (short of overpaying which, after last summer, we will want to avoid...)

And yeah, that's ignoring the problems on our end as Schwiiing said...

If his price is gonna increase if we don't sign him before the WC (which I think it will) would it not be more logical to over spend now and get it done? Would give Southampton alot more time to start rebuilding and get a replacement (unless they're gonna promote Chambers to a regular starter) cause their squad is surely gonna be dismantled over the summer.

bucketybuck

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Honestly, I think the deal is pretty much done; the majority of reports are saying it's a formality.

But the reality is also I can see why Southampton would want to delay it; the WC will boost his price, and the team shouldn't be dismantled when there is no manager. Southampton should be delaying as much as possible. And if a club are steadfast, there is nothing we could do to speed them along (short of overpaying which, after last summer, we will want to avoid...)

And yeah, that's ignoring the problems on our end as Schwiiing said...

If they are able to delay the deal for as long as they want and then hope to change the price then I'm sorry, but thats very far from a deal being pretty much done.

It always comes back to the same thing. If we are interested in Shaw then this is the type of deal that should have been signed and sealed months ago. We have needed a left back for years and since last season he has been the most promising young candidate around, if we were interested then why the hell have we waited until now? Again, just how **** at negotiation are we?

Lord TSC

Southampton have us over a barrel, like it or not.

Trying to compare it to Pool buying a 32 year old striker to act as cover to possibly the best striker in the league right now is foolish though. It's apples and oranges.

Whatsisname

Two ways of looking at that though, who else are willing to offer nearly 30m for an 18 year old LB?

A liverpool supporting friend said it to me a few minutes ago, the reported 9m for Lambert, a 32 year old, you'd take without a doubt. But 27m for an 18 year old, you'd surely bite the hand off?

bucketybuck

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Southampton have us over a barrel, like it or not.

I certainly hope Woodward doesn't approach clubs with that mentality.

United have many options, I would be interested to know if he is using any of them.

DM_7

Shaw is hardly going to play at the World Cup so I doubt they expect a big increase in his value

Quandary

We should have closed the Shaw deal by now. If paying an extra 2m or 3m gets it over the line before the WC we should be doing it. This Summer is so crucial to the clubs future that we can't afford to faff about or quibble over relatively small change.

Our inability to get deals done efficiently and quickly has been a big problem over the last few years. Now is not the time to make the same mistakes again.

We are less than two weeks before the first game of the WC and we really dont look like getting anything done before then. I know people will say that other premiership clubs have been just as quiet, but IMO no other club competing for top 4 is as badly in need of reinforcements as we are.

The transfer window hasn't officially opened so it's not exactly panic stations yet, but like some other posters here have said, I have very little confidence in whoever is handling our transfer business. Last Summer was an embarrassment, it made a club of our stature look amateurish and it simply cannot be allowed to happen again.

MagicMarker

How many deals have the top 6 above us completed so far?

ShaneU

MagicMarker wrote: »

How many deals have the top 6 above us completed so far?

Zero

Mitch Connor

so what? why can't we be the fist big club on a mission this summer to sign a player? Why do we have to wait for others to start buying? United should have started the summer quick and sent out a message that we meant business and we going to bring in the players to get us back to the top. Instead all we have is stories of United deciding they no longer want to buy a player we have been scouting for months upon months.

Quandary

MagicMarker wrote: »

How many deals have the top 6 above us completed so far?

I'm more worried about what we're not doing as opposed to what they're not doing, and IMO we're more in need of good signings in crucial positions than any of them.

thelad95

I think the debacle of last summer has disturbed quite a few people, me included as to how wiley we will be in the transfer market in the next few years.

But it's still only May. If we reach mid-July (regardless of the progress Netherlands make in the World Cup) without any transfer deal of any sort, I would be getting very concerned again.

Crimson King

Stretching here I know but I was thinking about it today and it could (I emphasise could) be as a mark of respect for Glazer. He could have been very sick for a while and until that was resolved all business decisions could have been on hold.

I will probably get roasted for this but if deals are sorted already like the Shaw one seems to be then it would make sense to get family matters sorted before the dirty business of talking about money and deals.

Then again we may just be witnessing Woodward in action again and fcuking up deal after deal like last year.

billyhead

We should not have to wait for other clubs to start spending before we dip into our pockets. If we are haggling over a few million and are standing by our guns in terms of valuation of players we are if for a repeat of last summer, We need to lay down a marker that we have the financial clout and ambition to spend big and get this club back on track. I have no faith in Woodward as a transfer negotiator. Don't get me wrong he might be good at getting the marketing deals sorted but if he screws up the transfer window for us this summer he should be shown the door.

Rayne Wooney

We should be getting our stuff done early regardless of what other teams are doing after the last window, the early bird gets the worm

Two wingers who would improve our options drastically, Sanchez and Shaqiri being linked with moves to Juve and Liverpool

irishfeen

Any craic today lads?? Didn't check in all day.

Whatsisname

irishfeen wrote: »

Any craic today lads?? Didn't check in all day.

If you don't like finance or don't quite understand it, run away, run far far away

irishfeen

Whatsisname wrote: »

If you don't like finance or don't quite understand it, run away, run far far away

It's lucky I did a bit of financial management in college so - albeit construction financial management

The_Kew_Tour

Dont worry eventually we will get news.

Its actually gone quiet in the speculation front. Thank Christ!!

Rayne Wooney

Some Spanish newspaper, el confidencial, is saying Van Gaal has Koke on his list but United will have to pay the €60 million release clause to get him

MagicMarker

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so what? why can't we be the fist big club on a mission this summer to sign a player? Why do we have to wait for others to start buying? United should have started the summer quick and sent out a message that we meant business and we going to bring in the players to get us back to the top. Instead all we have is stories of United deciding they no longer want to buy a player we have been scouting for months upon months.

No one is saying we have to wait for others to buy first, don't be so stupid. It's not a race. We have over 3 months until the season starts, there's plenty of time to sign players, there's absolutely no need to rush into anything.

irishfeen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Some Spanish newspaper, el confidencial, is saying Van Gaal has Koke on his list but United will have to pay the €60 million release clause to get him

Absolutely ridiculous money but at this stage I actually don't care about that.

The_Kew_Tour

No value in the transfer market and all that

dahat

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Some Spanish newspaper, el confidencial, is saying Van Gaal has Koke on his list but United will have to pay the €60 million release clause to get him

With Athletico close to getting Rakitic they might be moving on a mid?

Lord TSC

The pressure on any midfielder costing that much would be unreal...

irishfeen

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The pressure on any midfielder costing that much would be unreal...

We're now living in the "50millon David Luiz era" - nothing will ever surprise me again in football.

Whatsisname

dahat wrote: »

With Athletico close to getting Rakitic they might be moving on a mid?

We should be going for him

Rayne Wooney

dahat wrote: »

With Athletico close to getting Rakitic they might be moving on a mid?

The money they get from getting to the CL final and winning la Liga should mean they don't need to sell unless an offer too good to turn down comes in I think

Reports are they don't want to sell so meeting the clause would be our only option if he wants to come, I've only seen him a handful of times, but when there's talk of Sanchez moving for 25 million, 60 million is most likely not going to happen

J. Marston

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Some Spanish newspaper, el confidencial, is saying Van Gaal has Koke on his list but United will have to pay the €60 million release clause to get him

Do it.

And get Rakitic too.

TheTownie

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The money they get from getting to the CL final and winning la Liga should mean they don't need to sell unless an offer too good to turn down comes in I think

Reports are they don't want to sell so meeting the clause would be our only option if he wants to come, I've only seen him a handful of times, but when there's talk of Sanchez moving for 25 million, 60 million is most likely not going to happen

Utd really should be after Sanchez if Barca want to sell but as usual Utd are unlikely to act upon such opportunities.

Rayne Wooney

Rakitic reminds me of Nedved

We should be in for him but as usual we won't be and he will go somewhere else and do well

Mitch Connor

MagicMarker wrote: »

No one is saying we have to wait for others to buy first, don't be so stupid. It's not a race. We have over 3 months until the season starts, there's plenty of time to sign players, there's absolutely no need to rush into anything.

Who is rushing, they are positions we've needed for more than a year. We could have signed someone on the final whistle at Southampton and it wouldn't have been rushing.

UnitedIrishman

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Who is rushing, they are positions we've needed for more than a year. We could have signed someone on the final whistle at Southampton and it wouldn't have been rushing.

I was mad for transfers too but promised myself this year I won't get worried until the last 2 weeks before the end of the transfer window (although earlier if we haven't anything done before that).

And if **** all happens then, I might need counseling for anger issues on/around Sept 1.

Deiseboy01

TheDoc wrote: »

OMG

I'm not crediting them with the clubs success, I'm arguing essentially that this so called "risk" wasn't a risk at all, or certainly not as big as being made out anti-glazer groups at the time.

And I'm pointing out that absolutely nothing the doomsayers predicted was anywhere close to the reality of the situation.

I'm not in anyway crediting them with the clubs success, I'm saying their takeover didn't in anyway hinder it, and we had our most successful spell, while they were in charge. Which takes a fat dump on the projections of the time that the club wouldn't be able to attract players or sustain the success that had grown during the 90's.

i'm in no way saying they are directly credited or linked with the clubs success.

The reason for our success was very much one man in fairness, I assumed that to be the general acceptance so thought I wouldn't have to actually specify him...

I'm playing catch up here reading through today's posts and thought I'd add a comment. May be repeating something that's been mentioned in the next couple of pages so excuse me if I have.

The risks were huge when the Glazers used borrowed money to 'buy' the club. They borrowed the money at huge rates of interest. No one would loan them the money at even approaching commercial rates. That's why they went to Hedge Funds to fund the purchase.

The finance was seen as hugely risky by the counterparts to the loan hence the huge interest rates. Interest rates effectively are the price of risk. High rates of interest equals high risk. They placed that risk onto the club, a club they had very little equity in so yes they gambled the clubs future.

Irrespective of what happened since they are bad news.

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We should be getting our stuff done early regardless of what other teams are doing after the last window, the early bird gets the worm

Two wingers who would improve our options drastically, Sanchez and Shaqiri being linked with moves to Juve and Liverpool

What exactly do links prove?

We have been linked to everyone!

Deiseboy01

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If you don't make profits, and your owner doesn't bankroll you, what are you going to buy players with?

Revenue apparently, irrespective of whether or not your costs are outstripping revenue and you are going bankrupt!! Profit is unnecessary in this parallel universe.

Manutd_4life

for some reason i get a feeling we have 1 or 2 transfers done but wont be announced till transfer window opens or the certain players wc 2014 campaign is over

kryogen

Anyone know anything about this lad? Reported target so Dutch naturally

I particularly enjoy the first goal, hattrick for the under 21's v Scotland, plays for FC Twente, don't know much about him myself, just to add, I know he is 22, a winger and plays for Twente. Not a whole lot more

kryogen

Sky are reporting Liverpool have made an offer for Moreno, if we fail to land the whale we are apparently pinning all the hopes on I will be a bit pissed off if Liverpool sign Moreno for a damn sight cheaper

Mikeyt086

Moreno looks a super player but I am seriously confident we have Luke Shaw wrapped up.

bucketybuck

Manutd_4life wrote: »

for some reason i get a feeling we have 1 or 2 transfers done but wont be announced till transfer window opens or the certain players wc 2014 campaign is over

I would hope that is the case, but the media knew Moyes was sacked before he did and even Fergie couldn't keep his imminent retirement under wraps for a few days before word got out. We haven't been good at keeping secrets lately so it seems unlikely that we have managed to keep new signings secret.

Besides, why would we want to keep any deals secret? Who does that benefit? Just the opposite, United need to get deals announced to create the impression that they mean business this summer. Far easier to convince Kroos or Fabregas to sign if we have already shown that we are a club with serious intent to get back to winning trophies.

Keeping transfers under wraps makes no sense whatsoever, doesn't help the club and doesn't help the incoming player.

NeVeR

Man United Fans World Cup Sweeps

Updated paid list.

--- Player --- |--- Paid --- |--- Team ---
1: NeVeR | Yes |
2: Gadge | Yes |
3: keane2097 | Yes |
4: Donnielighto | |
5: LightOfTruth | Yes |
6: Vertigo100 | Yes |
7: s.welstead | Yes |
8: duffman13 | Yes |
9: irishfeen | Yes |
10: bucketybuck |Yes |
11: astradave | Yes |
12: RasTa | Yes |
13: ManofStraw | Yes |
14: LostBoy101 | |
15: glued | Yes |
16: Thepoet85 | Yes |
17: Timmyctc | |
18: KevIRL | Yes |
19: scudzilla | Yes |
20: collie0708 |Yes |
21: Liam O | |
22: markc1184 | Yes |
23: Blatter | |
24: bennyl10 |Yes |
25: stankratz | |
26: Thatsfootball | |
27: Iago | Yes |
28: bren2001 | Yes |
29: ninja900 | Yes |
30: yermandan | Yes |
31: Saucy McKetchup |Yes |
32: Will I Amnt | Yes |




I've decided that this is the final prizes list.

World Cup winner €150
Runner Up €70

1st Most yellow cards in group stages €20
1st Red Card €20
1st OG €20
1st Peno €20
Worst goal difference in group stages. €20

irishfeen

When are you thinking of dishing out the teams NeVeR?

Hotblack Desiato

What happens if more than one team has the same goal difference or number of yellow cards? Split the prize or have a tie breaker?

NeVeR

irishfeen wrote: »

When are you thinking of dishing out the teams NeVeR?

When everyone has paid.
The deadline for payments is Tuesday 3rd June - If I get all 32 payments by midnight 3rd June i will do the Draw on the Wednesday. If I don't get them all I will remove the non payers and contact any Subs' we might have.

If I need to contact Subs I will give them until the Saturday 7th June to make payment and the draw will follow on the Sunday 8th June.

So all in all we will all know out teams by the 8th June.

ninja900 wrote: »

What happens if more than one team has the same goal difference or number of yellow cards? Split the prize or have a tie breaker?

Umm.. I did think about this but forgot to add it.
We could do it that the 1st team to hit the total wins.

meaning 2 teams have 20 yellow cards - Team A reached 20 1st. So they are the winners ?

irishfeen

NeVeR wrote: »

When everyone has paid.
The deadline for payments is Tuesday 3rd June - If I get all 32 payments by midnight 3rd June i will do the Draw on the Wednesday. If I don't get them all I will remove the non payers and contact any Subs' we might have.

If I need to contact Subs I will give them until the Saturday 7th June to make payment and the draw will follow on the Sunday 8th June.

So all in all we will all know out teams by the 8th June.



Umm.. I did think about this but forgot to add it.
We could do it that the 1st team to hit the total wins.

meaning 2 teams have 20 yellow cards - Team A reached 20 1st. So they are the winners ?

How much for a favourable draw then?

Donnielighto

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Moreno looks a super player but I am seriously confident we have Luke Shaw wrapped up.

Super!