Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Larry Wildman

rarnes1 wrote: »

How do you know Utd aren't interested?

Fingers crossed we are.

Cesc Fabregas in United's midfield...that would be a joy to behold.

bucketybuck

Larry Wildman wrote: »

United said not to be interested.

Sorry, but FFS. Just watch Fabregas next season wherever he ends up. The guy will be world class. Potentially the best midfielder in the country. And we're not interested. The mind boggles.

I simply cannot believe any paper talk that United are not interested. Our midfield is Carrick and Cleverley, if a player like Fabregas is available then we do not have the luxury of not being interested. It would be totally illogical not to be interested.

Chelsea or City might have to consider if he is really an improvement on who they already have, on an Oscar or Toure. We don't have that problem, we know he is better than anything we have.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Well, the journalists said so, didn't they.


Anyway...Kagawa at it again on a National level...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06-DxQOgRU8

I'm going too be really pissed if we don't see him preform at that level for united! Hopefully he rips up the World Cup infront of LVG who I'm hoping already has a man crush on Kags from his time at Dortmund.

Corvo

Larry Wildman wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/frank-lampard-set-for-new-york-as-jose-mourinho-makes-move-for-cesc-fabregas-30323576.html

Chelsea lining up Cesc Fabregas to replace Frank Lampard...£30m

United said not to be interested.

Sorry, but FFS. Just watch Fabregas next season wherever he ends up. The guy will be world class. Potentially the best midfielder in the country. And we're not interested. The mind boggles.

I don't think that article actually mentions anything about United's lack of interest, though I do know that is the general rumour doing the rounds.

It will take a lot for Fabregas to join Chelsea I think - he will surely have options in France and Italy (Juventus perhaps) and while the Premier League is surely his preferred destination, his previous comments and public lash-out at Jose Mourinho will have an effect.

Hopefully United have their cards close to their chest here and are makiing moves away from the public eye.

Its also conceivable that they don't want to get bogged down in another summer long negotiation with a player who cost us a lot of time and manpower last year.

Larry Wildman

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Fingers crossed we are.

Cesc Fabregas in United's midfield...that would be a joy to behold.

I wouldn't put too much stock in any journos tbh.

Even the reliables aren't really reliable this summer.

Your own clubs website and then probably the BBC are the ones I'd have faith in.

Larry Wildman

Corvo wrote: »

I don't think that article actually mentions anything about United's lack of interest

From the article:

"Manchester United made two unsuccessful bids to try to sign Fabregas last summer and were interested again until new manager Louis van Gaal informed the club he had other targets."

Corvo

Larry Wildman wrote: »

From the article:

"Manchester United made two unsuccessful bids to try to sign Fabregas last summer and were interested again until new manager Louis van Gaal informed the club he had other targets."

Sorry Larry, still suffering the effects of the weekend.

Well if Van Gaal feels the team would be better served by a different player then I will trust his experience.

Larry Wildman

Corvo wrote: »

Sorry Larry, still suffering the effects of the weekend.

Well if Van Gaal feels the team would be better served by a different player then I will trust his experience.

Hopefully that's the case.

The nightmare scenario is Van Gaal saying "Letsh not shign anyone...I want to shee how good this England international Tom Cleverly ish firsht".

duffman13

Corvo wrote: »

Sorry Larry, still suffering the effects of the weekend.

Well if Van Gaal feels the team would be better served by a different player then I will trust his experience.

+1 on this. If he has a system and a structure he wants to adopt then he should be allowed to implement it. I think we all believe Fabregas is a massively talented player but if LVG doesn't think he fits then I would trust him.

Under Moyes we were trying to sign marquee names like Fab*, but that is not always the right move. Mata was a signing to appease discontent in January. I'm delighted we got him but not what we needed as a priority. If LVG has players he wants to sign that are going to integrate into the system and are not big names we need to trust him.

*I'm not saying Fabregas is not a huge improvement on what's currently available.

Mikeyt086

Larry Wildman wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/frank-lampard-set-for-new-york-as-jose-mourinho-makes-move-for-cesc-fabregas-30323576.html

Chelsea lining up Cesc Fabregas to replace Frank Lampard...£30m

United said not to be interested.

Sorry, but FFS. Just watch Fabregas next season wherever he ends up. The guy will be world class. Potentially the best midfielder in the country. And we're not interested. The mind boggles.

Is that not clearly the club trying to save face after being told Fabregas isn't interested in us?

If Fabregas signs for Chelsea, it will be because he had agreed to it and told the other teams interested, who then have briefed the media that they are not interested (Us, Pool and Arsenal).

TheTownie

duffman13 wrote: »

+1 on this. If he has a system and a structure he wants to adopt then he should be allowed to implement it. I think we all believe Fabregas is a massively talented player but if LVG doesn't think he fits then I would trust him.

Under Moyes we were trying to sign marquee names like Fab*, but that is not always the right move. Mata was a signing to appease discontent in January. I'm delighted we got him but not what we needed as a priority. If LVG has players he wants to sign that are going to integrate into the system and are not big names we need to trust him.

*I'm not saying Fabregas is not a huge improvement on what's currently available.

As you are kind of alluding to in your last line, theres a big difference between a marquee signing for a position your well stocked in and a marquee signing for a position severely lacking in quality.

duffman13

TheTownie wrote: »

As you are kind of alluding to in your last line, theres a big difference between a marquee signing for a position your well stocked in and a marquee signing for a position severely lacking in quality.

Agreed he might be a marquee signing but he might not be the right fit for the system LVG is going to try employ. Again I would love to see him sign but if he is not what LVG requires we are better of not getting hung up on Fabregas. He is a hugely successful manager so he should be given some faith that he is going to get it right.

Mitch Connor

duffman13 wrote: »

Agreed he might be a marquee signing but he might not be the right fit for the system LVG is going to try employ. Again I would love to see him sign but if he is not what LVG requires we are better of not getting hung up on Fabregas. He is a hugely successful manager so he should be given some faith that he is going to get it right.

But what are the odds on Woodward prising some other top class player away instead of an actually available fabregas.

Cantona's Collars

We've gone from not interested to bidding €43 million for Fabergas in 24 hours if Sport.es are to be believed.

duffman13

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But what are the odds on Woodward prising some other top class player away instead of an actually available fabregas.

Haha these are the variables which make us love football. We can presume (hope) he learned from last years fiasco.

FutureGuy

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Hopefully that's the case.

The nightmare scenario is Van Gaal saying "Letsh not shign anyone...I want to shee how good this England international Tom Cleverly ish firsht".

All jokes aside, that's exactly what I expect from LVG.

No signings until late Summer lads and lassies. He'll take a look at who's at the club and then decide who needs to go and who we attempt to get in.

Adamcp898

Surely LVG looks at Fabregas and then looks at our midfield and realises that whether he's top of his list or not, he'd improve things ten-fold.

We need more than one midfielder anyway so why not just go and get the world class player that's available and then go chase your No. 1 target as opposed to chasing him all Summer, failing, and signing Marouane bloody Fellaini. I mean it's as if we have learned nothing from the debacle that was last Summer and the previous 6 years signing no decent CM :mad:

Hococop

Corvo wrote: »

Sorry Larry, still suffering the effects of the weekend.

Well if Van Gaal feels the team would be better served by a different player then I will trust his experience.

I can completely understand this but my main worry is if van gaal goes for his target player and is unsuccessful then we are in serious trouble

Larry Wildman

FutureGuy wrote: »

All jokes aside, that's exactly what I expect from LVG.

No signings until late Summer lads and lassies. He'll take a look at who's at the club and then decide who needs to go and who we attempt to get in.

You may be right.

Hopefully the best players are still available at that stage.

My concern would be that we pass on Fabregas with a view to signing a crocked guy like Strootman or someone else and they're not available or don't want to come leaving us scrambling around at the last minute for the dregs like Fellaini.

The other side to this is that Chelsea with Cesc Fabregas and Diego Costa (plus Oscar, Hazard, etc) will be very strong next year...Mourinho plus that squad will be tough to overhaul, nevermind our noisy neighbours.

FutureGuy

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Surely LVG looks at Fabregas and then looks at our midfield and realises that whether he's top of his list or not, he'd improve things ten-fold.

We need more than one midfielder anyway so why not just go and get the world class player that's available and then go chase your No. 1 target as opposed to chasing him all Summer, failing, and signing Marouane bloody Fellaini. I mean it's as if we have learned nothing from the debacle that was last Summer and the previous 6 years signing no decent CM :mad:

There's a lot more to it than "look at the midfield". He said he like sto mold younger players, and will probably do that quicker than spend 35m on a replacement. For all we know, a player like Fabregas does not fit into HIS vision for HIS United.

I hope the Dutch get knocked out of the WC asap.

Adamcp898

FutureGuy wrote: »

There's a lot more to it than "look at the midfield". He said he like sto mold younger players, and will probably do that quicker than spend 35m on a replacement. For all we know, a player like Fabregas does not fit into HIS vision for HIS United.

I hope the Dutch get knocked out of the WC asap.

I'm aware I'm oversimplifying things, but if he wants to spend the time to mould young players then I dare say he might not have us challenging within a year like he said. That and he's still going to have to sign young midfielders anyway so in addition to that it couldn't hurt to splurge on either one of the top young midfielders out there like Koke etc. or else spend nearly half that on a Fabregas, Kroos etc.

That and I'm terrified his plan is to sign Strootman and us making excuses all year that he hasn't had a pre-season if he underperforms.

TheTownie

zerks wrote: »

We've gone from not interested to bidding €43 million for Fabergas in 24 hours if Sport.es are to be believed.

Sporting Witness give a good run down of that article;

Catalan newspaper Sport say on their front page today 'Mou joins the auction for Cesc' and go on to ask 'Who bids more?' before listing the following:

Manchester United €43m

Chelsea €40m

Arsenal €36m

That of course makes it looks like they're claiming Manchester United have, or will, bid €43m for Cesc Fabregas. They repeat the claim with a graphic inside but in their actual article don't mention it once, contradict it by saying Manchester United and Arsenal are simply waiting in the wings, and say Chelsea are closest to a deal, therefore making the figures look like something added after the article to make it all a little sexier or 'cescier'. Apologies.

Here's the thing, we don't think Sport have a clue what is happening with Fabregas, which clubs are interested and what they may bid. Not a clue, not even a little one. No inside information whatsoever at this stage. No better idea than the average fan guessing. That sounds odd for a usually well connected Catalan newspaper but it's the only conclusion we can get to given the following timeline.

Sport, May 21st: Manchester United would bid up to €53m for Fabregas and Arsenal can't afford him.

Sport, May 24th: Chelsea have 'no chance' and Fabregas will only join Arsenal.

Sport, May 31st: Manchester United prepared to bid €37m, Chelsea also in the hunt, Arsenal not interested and Manchester City unlikely because of FFP.

Sport, June 1st: Arsenal favourites as Darren Dein meets Arsene Wenger.

Sport, later on June 1st: Manchester City have agreed a deal for Fabregas which could be worth up to €58m.

Sport, June 3rd: Arsenal will offer €36m, Chelsea €40m and Manchester United €43m.

The newspaper have tied themselves up in knots. It looks like there's much less going on than what they hoped for and therefore news is being spat out at a blistering rate, with no care for how contradictory it may be.

Agueroooo

a lot of newspapers are not reporting either that Barca owe Arsenal a reported £16 million from both the Song and Fabragas deals.

I still expect Chelsea to have a big say in his future.

Cantona's Collars

TheTownie wrote: »

Sporting Witness give a good run down of that article;

Sport Witness are one of the best sources,they go through them all,even translate foreign sources & call them as reliable or bs.

glued

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Is that not clearly the club trying to save face after being told Fabregas isn't interested in us?

If Fabregas signs for Chelsea, it will be because he had agreed to it and told the other teams interested, who then have briefed the media that they are not interested (Us, Pool and Arsenal).

That's total b0llocks. How is that clearly the club trying to save face? It's perfectly feasible that van Gaal doesn't want him either. Fabregas and his agent burnt themselves badly last summer.

greendom

Agueroooo wrote: »

a lot of newspapers are not reporting either that Barca owe Arsenal a reported £16 million from both the Song and Fabragas deals.

I still expect Chelsea to have a big say in his future.

Mourinho likes his midfielders to track back. never been one of Cesc's fortes.

Agueroooo

greendom wrote: »

Mourinho likes his midfielders to track back. never been one of Cesc's fortes.

true, but the clear out he has done leaves a massive hole that is ideal for a player like Cesc, and with Willian now being converted into his new Makélélé then I think the rumours are more than just that.

ShaneU

We tried to sign Kurt Zouma in January http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9336154/transfer-news-kurt-zouma-says-he-snubbed-manchester-united-to-join-chelsea

FutureGuy

Agueroooo wrote: »

true, but the clear out he has done leaves a massive hole that is ideal for a player like Cesc, and with Willian now being converted into his new Makélélé then I think the rumours are more than just that.

I can easily see Fabregas at Chelsea next year.

Manutd_4life

ShaneU wrote: »

We tried to sign Kurt Zouma in January http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9336154/transfer-news-kurt-zouma-says-he-snubbed-manchester-united-to-join-chelsea

add that to the list of failed transfer targets

kryogen

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How so?

My point is that Moyes lacked credibility.

Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ancellotti, Ferguson, etc have gravitas because of what they've achieved in the game.

I'm not trying to be unkind, but Moyes is effectively a nobody compared to the great managers.

When Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ancelotti and Ferguson had achieved nothing they still managed to get players to perform at a high level, their personalities, they were winners, people wanted to go out and perform for them. They would not need to use gimmicks like that to get a performance out of someone.

Who they coached in the past meant **** all.

Larry Wildman

kryogen wrote: »

When Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ancelotti and Ferguson had achieved nothing they still managed to get players to perform at a high level, their personalities, they were winners, people wanted to go out and perform for them. They would not need to use gimmicks like that to get a performance out of someone.

Who they coached in the past meant **** all.

Yes and no.

When Ferguson started out, he achieved wonders with "non stars", thus obtaining credibility. Plus even at United in '86, because there was no Bosman stuff, the manager had massive control over the players. And the highest paid player at United was on £100k a year so didn't have the financial security that Wayne Rooney has.

Mourinho did the same with Porto - He was a Champions League winner when he walked into Stamford Bridge.

Van Gaal built his reputation with young (and educated!) players at Ajax.

Ancellotti was part of the great Milan team (Van Basten etc) and a club legend.

Moyes had none of that. He has achieved f..k all in the game and you can conceivably see a modern day footballer challenging him on that point.

Mitch Connor

Agueroooo wrote: »

a lot of newspapers are not reporting either that Barca owe Arsenal a reported £16 million from both the Song and Fabragas deals.

I still expect Chelsea to have a big say in his future.

They owed that much 1year ago, it has likely come down. Also, it doesn't make them selling to arsenal any clearer - arsenal would have accounted for that money, as would barca.

Rayne Wooney

It could be a case of Fabregas not wanting to join us or that Van Gaal just doesn't want him

If it's the latter he better have somebody else lined up, starting the season with Cleverley, Carrick Fellaini and probably Strootman just isn't going to be good enough at all.

It's going to be last year all over again where a few months in we'll be suffering because of the CM and we'll be wondering what players we can buy in January to fix if

nullzero

My opinion would be that Fabregas doesn't like United and wouldn't move to us if we were the last club on earth. He has shown his dislike of United in the past and used us to gain leverage over his club last year. He will go to Chelsea, and probably be very successful. United however still need to secure at least two top class midfielders and Koke heading to Barcelona to replace Fabregas takes another midfield player out of the equation for United.

Mikeyt086

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It could be a case of Fabregas not wanting to join us or that Van Gaal just doesn't want him

If it's the latter he better have somebody else lined up, starting the season with Cleverley, Carrick Fellaini and probably Strootman just isn't going to be good enough at all.

It's going to be last year all over again where a few months in we'll be suffering because of the CM and we'll be wondering what players we can buy in January to fix if

Thats what I said. Cesc Fabregas probably doesn't want to play for us without Champions League football. United media team brief journos that we aren't interested.

Seems plausible to me. "Total bollox" to others apparently. Why the **** wouldn't we be interested in Cesc? Because he snubbed us last year? So now when we need him even more, it's "Nah you had your chance bro."

glued

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Thats what I said. Cesc Fabregas probably doesn't want to play for us without Champions League football. United media team brief journos that we aren't interested.

Seems plausible to me. "Total bollox" to others apparently. Why the **** wouldn't we be interested in Cesc? Because he snubbed us last year? So now when we need him even more, it's "Nah you had your chance bro."

Maybe becuase he's been fairly poor this year. Barcelona are selling him becuase after him stamping his feet last summer he's failed to live up to the hype.

Also what we tell journalists and what we're actually doing are two completely separate things. I would like to see Cesc at United but not at the expense of another midfield signing.

If van Gaal wanted Cesc we would be trying to sign him. We may well be trying to do so but the indications are that we aren't but I would insist that it's entirely plausible that the club are going to keep their mouths shut until a deal is done after how badly we were burnt last summer.

Corvo

glued wrote: »

Maybe becuase he's been fairly poor this year. Barcelona are selling him becuase after him stamping his feet last summer he's failed to live up to the hype.

Also what we tell journalists and what we're actually doing are two completely separate things. I would like to see Cesc at United but not at the expense of another midfield signing.

If van Gaal wanted Cesc we would be trying to sign him. We may well be trying to do so but the indications are that we aren't but I would insist that it's entirely plausible that the club are going to keep their mouths shut until a deal is done after how badly we were burnt last summer.

I would imagine that if United are enquiring or beginning negotiations with Barcelona it would be very subtle and I would also imagine it would be a "look, can we get this done asap - as we aren't hanging around this year only for Darren Dein to screw us over again".

As for the reasons they are getting rid of him? Well its quite simple - he held them to ransom last year for more playing time, which had already pissed off the fans and then he does not produce the goods as much as he is expected to - again ensuring he his booed.

But more than that, I think Barcelona just really want Koke who is an upgrade on him in my opinion or will be in approx 2 years.

Lord TSC

LVG talks on his attitude towards players and those who don't adapt to his playstyle...

"I am a coach who wants a good relationship with my players, I think it is very important," Van Gaal, in Amsterdam preparing for the World Cup with the Netherlands, said.

"I do everything to reach that level, but sometimes it is not reachable as the players are not open-minded and don't adapt to the norms that I put in the team.

"When you are not listening, always out, or I go out."

Source: http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/312313.html

keane2097

stankratz wrote: »

That's amazing.

Leftist

Agueroooo wrote: »

and with Willian now being converted into his new Makélélé

Rubber_Soul

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes thats right. Hoping for some good transfer business early in the window means wanting David Moyes to stay as manager. Well done. :rolleyes:

Since the end of the season you've made post after post about how incompetent the club has been for not having signings already sorted and ready to go. I think every one of us would prefer to have signings in asap, but most of us realise that with a very different manager to the last one there will likely be very different targets meaning a lot of the groundwork done in preparation for this Summer will have been in vain. The only other option is to sign Moyes targets without LVG's backing.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not an either or situation you know. For some reason people are starting to believe that LVG is an insane control freak that won't let a player on the training field unless he was personally there at birth.

He has in the past refused to play players a club signed without his say so, so it's not being ridiculous to assume he may do the same again. Even if he was cool with that, why on Earth would you want someone with zero footballing experience like Woodward dictating signings at Utd?

bucketybuck wrote: »

Said it a million times, this squad needs a hell of a lot of work done and United simply don't have the luxury of downing tools for a month waiting for LVG to come back from holidays.

But thats just my opinion, and there will always be plenty of people queuing up to say that there is still loads of time.

No one is arguing that the club doesn't need massive work, and I'm very worried about this Summer because I don't think we'll get the signings we need, I'm not even sold on LVG himself tbh. So stop pretending like you're the only one concerned for the future, we all are but this is just the reality of our situation.

UnitedIrishman

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Surely LVG looks at Fabregas and then looks at our midfield and realises that whether he's top of his list or not, he'd improve things ten-fold.

We need more than one midfielder anyway so why not just go and get the world class player that's available and then go chase your No. 1 target as opposed to chasing him all Summer, failing, and signing Marouane bloody Fellaini. I mean it's as if we have learned nothing from the debacle that was last Summer and the previous 6 years signing no decent CM :mad:

Not how Van Gaal functions or goes about his business though. Just because a player is available and he'll make our team better doesn't necessarily work for him, its about finding the right cogs for his system. That's why I am not panicking when I see us not interested in some big names. I'd love if we got our business done pre-World Cup but its not all that feasible with the manager preparing for World Cup.

Cantona's Collars

One for Game Of Thrones fans:

bucketybuck

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Since the end of the season you've made post after post about how incompetent the club has been for not having signings already sorted and ready to go....

Post after post? Really? Maybe I should just post some twitter bollocks like everybody else, would you prefer that?

So stop pretending like you're the only one concerned for the future, we all are but this is just the reality of our situation.

When the **** did I ever say I was the only one concerned for the future?

Rubber_Soul

bucketybuck wrote: »

Post after post? Really?

Yes, really.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe I should just post some twitter bollocks like everybody else, would you prefer that?

Sure, knock yourself out. Hell even a few Shadowcomplex style fantasy line-ups would be an improvement over your usual whinging.

When the **** did I ever say I was the only one concerned for the future?

Oh you may not have said it explicitly, but every post you make where you go on about others thinking everything is fine, loads of time etc... implies it.

bucketybuck

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Oh you may not have said it explicitly, but every post you make where you go on about others thinking everything is fine, loads of time etc... implies it.

More bull**** based upon absolutely nothing. You should try responding to what is actually written rather than what you think was written, as its clear they are not the same thing.

tallaghtmick

2 Youth players talking about wanting to impress LVG...... We are signing no one! :pac:

Manutd_4life

David Beckham said he feels like coming out of retirement every time he watches sportsman and athletes perform. Imagine him coming back to play for us and save us from this mess David Moyes put us in. Too good to be true

Julez

Manutd_4life wrote: »

David Beckham said he feels like coming out of retirement every time he watches sportsman and athletes perform. Imagine him coming back to play for us and save us from this mess David Moyes put us in. Too good to be true

Eh, what?