Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Vinz Mesrine

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The Liverpool bias on tv has a lot to answer for...Sturridge ahead of Rooney...FFS

(i.e. the ridiculous amount of blinkered ex Liverpool players in the media)

Picking players on reputation rather than current form... FFS

Mitch Connor

Rooney was rubbish in the last game. Poor passing, terrible first touch. Similar to what we see from him at United too often (imo). If he isn't playing well, he should be dropped as when he isn't playing well he is a passenger.

Lord TSC

If I was an England fan, I'd be wanting Sturridge starting ahead of Rooney; not only is he in better form, he's also a fair chunk younger and will be their main striker for the next 6-8 years, whereas Rooney could be declining by the next tournament.

MD1990

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Yes this talk of dropping/shoving Rooney out wide has me puzzled. Despite not playing too well in the last game he was still their top goalscorer in qualifiers, and his last few major tournaments he's been injured/had other issues and if he wasn't so integral to England he probably wouldn't have been selected at all.

That and the calls have come in favour of Sturridge who hasn't exactly ripped up trees himself in his few England caps with his goals either coming in unimportant low opposition friendlies or comfortable low opposition qualifier wins.

Sturridge is England's best striker & has great pace to stretch defences. Rooney always underperforms at major tournaments.
Rooney's lifestyle is catching up with him & it looks like he reached his peak in the 11/12 season.

FutureGuy

Wow. I'd have Sturridge well ahead of Rooney in the England pecking order.

MagicIRL

FutureGuy wrote: »

Wow. I'd have Sturridge well ahead of Rooney in the England pecking order.

Just look at the form both were in this season.Sturridge netted 21 goals in 29 games (league) with 7 assists for Liverpool. Rooney on the other hand scored 17 goals and 10 assists in the same number of games.

4 more goals or 3 more assists? I know who I would pick to be my goalscoring threat based on stats alone, but then you must consider Rooney spent some games @ #10 as well as playing under Moyes and in Europe.

I don't know who I would choose.

Mitch Connor

MagicIRL wrote: »

As would I. Just look at the form both were in this season.Sturridge netted 21 goals in 29 games (league) with 7 assists for Liverpool. Rooney on the other hand scored 17 goals and 10 assists in the same number of games.

4 more goals or 3 more assists? I know who I would pick to be my goalscoring threat.

4 more goals, not 12.

Rayne Wooney

Rooney playing behind the striker floating passes from side to side adds absolutely nothing to the team and it lets the other team get back in shape and gives England no other option but to cross it. They're better off playing Sterling behind the striker like he did for Liverpool

Rooney is better than Sturridge as a striker but Sturridge is on form and Rooney has been playing out of position most of the past two years so you can understand why Roy picks him

Their best chance was giving Rooney a few games there to get some form in the last few games and then start him up front in the groups

bangkok

Macca07 wrote: »

Sturridge has no real international experience, no major tournaments under him. Roy would be nuts to shove Rooney out on the wing. Rooney's best position is up front, I think England would be a better team with Rooney up front, with Sturridge and Sterling/Welbeck coming in from the wings. If Rooney doesn't deserve to start up front, then he doesn't deserve to start at all.

All 3 are better players than Rooney coming from the wings, Rooney should be played as the #9 or #10. But I'm sure Roy is just trying something different for tonights game and it'll be the usual setup we see at the WC.

and rooney has 2 world cups under him and was rubbish in both.... scholes was right about rooney... his best days are behind him

DARK-KNIGHT

So rooney scores 4 less than sturridge being played out of position... nevermind the united team behind rooney being shocking bad this year plus add in rooneys workrate on the pitch..

Sturridge isnt even good enough to clean rooneys boots

MagicIRL

Didn't Rooney play out left with Tevez and Ronaldo back in the day? Memory might not be too good. I swear he was deployed out left before.

bangkok

he has played on the left and right loads of times before, no big deal, he will get more space out there anyway might be more effective in this world cup. 300k a week he should be able to play anywhere he is told

Corvo

MagicIRL wrote: »

Didn't Rooney play out left with Tevez and Ronaldo back in the day? Memory might not be too good. I swear he was deployed out left before.

Oh he has, plenty of times and spent the majority of that season drifting in from there and he did quite well.

Just think that when it comes to England they would be better with Sterling or Welbeck out there so that leaves Rooney with his favoured position. BUT if he isn't fit enough or playing well enough to be there then he shouldn't play at all. Keep the players that belong on the wing on the wing and replace Rooney with someone else

Maximus Alexander

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

So rooney scores 4 less than sturridge being played out of position... nevermind the united team behind rooney being shocking bad this year plus add in rooneys workrate on the pitch..

Sturridge isnt even good enough to clean rooneys boots

This is a valid point. Rooney's goals come from playing in a team that performed dismally and finished 7th. Sturridge from a team that was a victory away from winning the league. Comparing players using these numbers is meaningless.

Lukker-

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Rooney is better than Sturridge as a striker but Sturridge is on form and Rooney has been playing out of position most of the past two years so you can understand why Roy picks him

Maybe 2 seasons ago. They are both at seperate ends of the spectrum, Rooney is on a downward curve, Sturridge on an upward. I expect it to stay that way. I think Rooney peaked about 4 seasons ago, when he scored 26 goals in the PL.

Rayne Wooney

Lukker- wrote: »

Maybe 2 seasons ago. They are both at seperate ends of the spectrum, Rooney is on a downward curve, Sturridge on an upward. I expect it to stay that way. I think Rooney peaked about 4 seasons ago, when he scored 26 goals in the PL.

What about 2 seasons ago when he scored 27 goals in the PL?

What is the common denominator with both of those seasons? Rooney played as a striker.

Macca07

bangkok wrote: »

and rooney has 2 world cups under him and was rubbish in both.... scholes was right about rooney... his best days are behind him

17 goals and 10 assists in the worst United season in 25 years would say otherwise.

Lukker-

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

What about 2 seasons ago when he scored 27 goals in the PL?

What is the common denominator with both of those seasons? Rooney played as a striker.

I still think 2010 is probably his most impressive season, but he was excellent that season too. He was played out of position plenty early on in his United career and always impressed me.

Van Persie missed a huge chunk of last season, so he had plenty of games up front on his own he still looked sub-par. I just think he's past his best.

Rayne Wooney

Lukker- wrote: »

I still think 2010 is probably his most impressive season, but he was excellent that season too. He was played out of position plenty early on in his United career and always impressed me.

Van Persie missed a huge chunk of last season, so he had plenty of games up front on his own he still looked sub-par. I just think he's past his best.

And he scored 17 goals and 10 assists last season in the worst United team of the PL era.

Your opinion seems to be made without really considering any of the facts that say otherwise

bangkok

Macca07 wrote: »

17 goals and 10 assists in the worst United season in 25 years would say otherwise.

even in the best united teams rooney never dominated a champions league game either in the way a Ronaldo messi iniesta xavi scholes ever had.

don't get me wrong he is still a great player but imo we have already seen the best of wayne rooney. Be interesting to see what shape he comes back to united after his summer of drinking smoking and eating kebabs and chips. Imagine a few years ago fergie had to send him to America to Nike headquarters for 2 weeks intense training as he let himself go completely during the summer

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And he scored 17 goals and 10 assists last season in the worst United team of the PL era.

Your opinion seems to be made without really considering any of the facts that say otherwise

same utd team that won a league by 11 points the year before that and added fellaini and mata to that squad

Adamcp898

MD1990 wrote: »

Sturridge is England's best striker & has great pace to stretch defences. Rooney always underperforms at major tournaments.
Rooney's lifestyle is catching up with him & it looks like he reached his peak in the 11/12 season.

Rooney has had issues going into his last few major tournaments, and as I said, you can take the fact he was still brought to them all as a measure of his importance to England.

That and Sturridge didn't exactly end the season in the form that seen him score most of his goals. Sterling is head and shoulders above him in terms of ''current form'' if people want to stay strictly to it.

Agueroooo

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Sturridge isnt even good enough to clean rooneys boots

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

This is a valid point. Rooney's goals come from playing in a team that performed dismally and finished 7th. Sturridge from a team that was a victory away from winning the league. Comparing players using these numbers is meaningless.

Will I Amnt

It's Rooney over Sturridge for me, England won't be nearly as dominant in games as Liverpool were for most of this season, can't see Sturridge being anywhere near as consistent at the World Cup. When Rooney plays up top he scores and scores a lot.
I don't buy into the "past it" label just yet, he never relied too heavily on pace anyway. I'd give him another season before making that call.

bangkok

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's Rooney over Sturridge for me, England won't be nearly as dominant in games as Liverpool were for most of this season, can't see Sturridge being anywhere near as consistent at the World Cup. When Rooney plays up top he scores and scores a lot.
I don't buy into the "past it" label just yet, he never relied too heavily on pace anyway. I'd give him another season before making that call.

serious??

Cantona's Collars

Marca are saying that Barca would rather do business with United over Chelsea regarding any transfer of Fabergas seeing as Chelsea are in the UCL next season & we aren't,they don't want to strengthen a rival.

Vic Vinegar

bangkok wrote: »

serious??

He's right though.

kryogen

Agueroooo wrote: »

Is it any opinion that doesn't fawn over the genius of Sturridge while disparaging Rooney that will be mocked?

Lukker-

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And he scored 17 goals and 10 assists last season in the worst United team of the PL era.

Your opinion seems to be made without really considering any of the facts that say otherwise

It's from watching him. I know United had a bad season, but I think a lot of that team are coming to end of their current cycle this season, much like what has happened at Chelsea. Rooney's will be 29 this year, not old by any standards and he should realistically be hitting his peak now but for a player who has struggled to keep his fitness up in recent years, I don't see a resurgence in form on the cards. He certainly won't score 27 goals in the league again. I don't see how he'll even fit into Van Gaals team personally, Van Persie is a better option up front, Rooney has been a waste of time in #10. I think giving him that new deal will turn out to be the worst bit of business since Torres moving to Chelsea.

Will I Amnt

bangkok wrote: »

serious??

Yeah, he's not totally reliant on pace in the way players like Torres or Owen were. He has lost that burst he had but it hasn't destroyed him as a player in the way it did the other 2.

Macca07

bangkok wrote: »

even in the best united teams rooney never dominated a champions league game either in the way a Ronaldo messi iniesta xavi scholes ever had.

Never? I think there are a lot of people that would disagree with that statement.

Personally, I don't think Rooney is anywhere near as good as the 5 players mentioned above, but to say he has never dominated a game like those is ridiculous.

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

Marca are saying that Barca would rather do business with United over Chelsea regarding any transfer of Fabergas seeing as Chelsea are in the UCL next season & we aren't,they don't want to strengthen a rival.

Agueroooo

kryogen wrote: »

Is it any opinion that doesn't fawn over the genius of Sturridge while disparaging Rooney that will be mocked?

no.

and nobody called Sturridge a genius, but the last two comparisons and statements did make me laugh. a lot.:)

Maximus Alexander

Agueroooo wrote: »

no.

and nobody called Sturridge a genius, but the last two comparisons and statements did make me laugh a lot.:)

Must be nice to be so easily amused.

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

even in the best united teams rooney never dominated a champions league game either in the way a Ronaldo messi iniesta xavi scholes ever had

Well this is pure bollocks. I suggest you watch a few of the games in 2011 again. He tore Milan to shreds and led United to the final where he was United's best player by a long way, getting a great goal feeding off scraps. He adapted his game to be an out and out striker and has lost a lot of the attributes that made him a standout second striker in his youth. When played up front he is deadly. I don't really like him but he is better than Sturridge.

fitzer1982

To be honest I think a fit and healthy Rooney will be invaluable for England, just not sure he'll have the time to get there for the world cup.

When Rooney is fit and healthy and has played games he's a world beater unfortunately he needs to be playing games to get to that level and I don't think the amount of games he played at the end of this season will be enough.

TheDoc

So from my morning read.

The Shaw to United deal is being put on hold until Southampton appoint a new manager. The club feel they won't attract a good candidate if they are seen selling their top assets..and want to have the new manager make the call on keeping Shaw or letting him leave. Seemingly Shaw is keen for the move to conclude ASAP.

Mourinho has little to no interest and Chelsea are trying to convince him to take Fabregas. Mourinho is holding firm and doesn't want him..and will make a merry song and dance if Cesc is pushes on him. The player is becoming increasingly worried about the situation.

All the while we are seemingly still not interested and have not and will not put forward a bid.

One fella is saying Strootman is going to be most likely a massive January acquisition ...as the club want to monitor his recovery and return to the field with Roma before bidding in what will be in the region of 25-30m to secure him. Available to us for 12m last sumer. Ffs.

Interesting reading this morning.

bangkok

Macca07 wrote: »

Never? I think there are a lot of people that would disagree with that statement.

Personally, I don't think Rooney is anywhere near as good as the 5 players mentioned above, but to say he has never dominated a game like those is ridiculous.

well most commentators would say the same, he has never truly been a stand out player in a champions league season. in big champions league games rooney has more often than not has gone missing

Vic Vinegar

Agueroooo wrote: »

no.

and nobody called Sturridge a genius, but the last two comparisons and statements did make me laugh. a lot.:)

Like all of us when Gerrard did his slippy thing then.

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

Well this is pure bollocks. I suggest you watch a few of the games in 2011 again. He tore Milan to shreds and led United to the final where he was United's best player by a long way, getting a great goal feeding off scraps. He adapted his game to be an out and out striker and has lost a lot of the attributes that made him a standout second striker in his youth. When played up front he is deadly. I don't really like him but he is better than Sturridge.

Milan 2011?? your facts are incorrect they never played Milan 2011, Marseille, Chelsea and schalke in the knockout rounds

MagicMarker

Ah jaysus, that time of year again is it?

"Rooney's best days are behind him..."
"He's on a downward curve..."

Only a matter of time before "He's overweight...".

The same shíte was spouted last summer too.

TheDoc

Also Rooney over Sturridge in this WC for me.

Rooney has three major tournaments under his belt for England. Sturridge none. While Rooney hasn't don't too well he is still experienced and it would be the wise choice going with him and bringing Strurridge in gently. Although I'd day both will start.

A lot of pressure going onto Rooney this WC...some from himself. Wouldn't be shocked to see him storm it.

Its kinda the same debate I don't get containing Sterling. UK journos etc crying over him not playing. Between a 19 year old with no experience whose skyrocketed to the top...and say a certain James Milner...with 40+ caps and two titles in three years...I know who I'd pick against Italy.

bangkok

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah jaysus, that time of year again is it?

"Rooney's best days are behind him..."
"He's on a downward curve..."

Only a matter of time before "He's overweight...".

The same shíte was spouted last summer too.

think that's happened a few times already in his career

Lord TSC

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah jaysus, that time of year again is it?

"Rooney's best days are behind him..."
"He's on a downward curve..."

Only a matter of time before "He's overweight...".

The same shíte was spouted last summer too.

Does the fact we have this same discussion constantly not show there's actually merit to such a discussion; that Rooney has yet to actually prove any of those things as utterly wrong?

Cantona's Collars

TheDoc wrote: »

So from my morning read.

The Shaw to United deal is being put on hold until Southampton appoint a new manager. The club feel they won't attract a good candidate if they are seen selling their top assets..and want to have the new manager make the call on keeping Shaw or letting him leave. Seemingly Shaw is keen for the move to conclude ASAP.

Mourinho has little to no interest and Chelsea are trying to convince him to take Fabregas. Mourinho is holding firm and doesn't want him..and will make a merry song and dance if Cesc is pushes on him. The player is becoming increasingly worried about the situation.

All the while we are seemingly still not interested and have not and will not put forward a bid.

One fella is saying Strootman is going to be most likely a massive January acquisition ...as the club want to monitor his recovery and return to the field with Roma before bidding in what will be in the region of 25-30m to secure him. Available to us for 12m last sumer. Ffs.

Interesting reading this morning.

You missed the one about Hummels being nearer a done deal than the Shaw transfer.

Lukker-

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah jaysus, that time of year again is it?

"Rooney's best days are behind him..."
"He's on a downward curve..."

Only a matter of time before "He's overweight...".

The same shíte was spouted last summer too.

And none of that turned out to be true...?

mike65

TheDoc wrote: »

So from my morning read.

One fella is saying Strootman is going to be most likely a massive January acquisition ...as the club want to monitor his recovery and return to the field with Roma before bidding in what will be in the region of 25-30m to secure him. Available to us for 12m last sumer. Ffs.

Interesting reading this morning.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/04/manchester-united-kevin-strootman-30m-january-target-roma

Macca07

bangkok wrote: »

well most commentators would say the same, he has never truly been a stand out player in a champions league season. in big champions league games rooney has more often than not has gone missing

What commentators? At least provide a link to an article or something.

2007, CL Semi Final 1st leg v AC Milan, scored 2
2004 against Fenerbache, he scored a hat-trick on his debut
2010 CL ties v AC Milan, 2 goals in both games

3 games off the top of my head where he was the best player on the pitch by a mile.

And you changed your argument from your last post, first by saying he has never had a great CL game, to now it being a great CL season.

In the 2011 season when United were beaten by Barca in the final, he was the best player for United that season.

In the previous season, he was also United's best player until he picked up the injury.

Agueroooo

TheDoc wrote: »

Also Rooney over Sturridge in this WC for me.

Rooney has three major tournaments under his belt for England. Sturridge none. While Rooney hasn't don't too well he is still experienced and it would be the wise choice going with him and bringing Strurridge in gently. Although I'd day both will start.

A lot of pressure going onto Rooney this WC...some from himself. Wouldn't be shocked to see him storm it.

Its kinda the same debate I don't get containing Sterling. UK journos etc crying over him not playing. Between a 19 year old with no experience whose skyrocketed to the top...and say a certain James Milner...with 40+ caps and two titles in three years...I know who I'd pick against Italy.

In the remaining run-in games before the World Cup you want the players to show a spark, hunger, and spring in their step that they are ready to show why, and what they are going to give on the biggest stage in World football.

Rooney and Johnson have done the opposite and look pissed off tbh.
and tonight will be interesting to see if they improve.

Sterling changed the game when he came on the other night, and Gerrard showed all the attributes needed,and looked well up for it with some really spicy tackles against Peru.

Sturridge never stopped trying and got a peach of a goal for his efforts, as did the the other younger members of the squad.

Joe Heart deserves a mention and I am looking forward to see how he does also.

World Cups usually make stars of the younger talents that get brought as the desire and hunger usually gets rewarded, but imo Rooney needs to give his head a wobble and play to his potential, as his time/tournament may have passed, and I think everyone might just be raving about someone else soon enough.

I think most of the negative press in the last few days is not to inflict any negative pain on him, but to maybe get him to wake up and perform.

but right now his place in the team is rightly getting questioned.

NTMK

Macca07 wrote: »

In the 2011 season when United were beaten by Barca in the final, he was the best player for United that season.

best player in 2010 aswell up to the ankle injury