Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

The_Kew_Tour

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Were people saying that United's midfield was fine?

If they were...Jesus Christ

Hindsight is wonderful and im sure you can get some crackers from me in the past(at least 200;) )

But yes even in 2012 many seemed to be happy and felt many of us were overreacting.

Like I say Hindsight and all that, but even taking that into account how some people could not see glaring ommissions is beyond me.

Headshot

We are still suffering from the Moyes effect.

How Soon Is Now

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Fair enough...so why aren't they being bought?

If he wants Strootman (for example), then why haven't we bought him (injury or no injury)?

My hope is that we have a plan and it's in motion with or without Van Gaal in Manchester but I don't know.....

Crimson King

I keep clinging to the idea that Woodward, desperate for a 'fcuk the doubters' moment is going to unveil a few players all at once (like nani's and Anderson were announced jointly a few seasons back).

Can't possibly go through another summer like last year, even if his negotiations were scuppered by de gaal changing the priorities and ruining a few signings he probably had almost completed. If there is a repeat then transfer dealings will have to be removed from him. The lack of news really is disheartening.

Larry Wildman

Liverpool decided they wanted Southampton's star striker and they just bought him.

We seem to be on the verge of signing Shaw for weeks...I agree with FutureGuy...I can see him going to Chelski

Rubber_Soul

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Fair enough...so why aren't they being bought?

If he wants Strootman (for example), then why haven't we bought him (injury or no injury)?

Because it's not like walking into a shop and saying I'll have that one, that one and one of those.

How Soon Is Now

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Liverpool decided they wanted Southampton's star striker and they just bought him.

We seem to be on the verge of signing Shaw for weeks...I agree with FutureGuy...I can see him going to Chelski

That's one the most annoying things about this club we spend way to long in most cases trying to sign players. Yet other clubs can chose there targets and deal with them in a short period of time.

Larry Wildman

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Because it's not like walking into a shop and saying I'll have that one, that one and one of those.

It seems that way for most other clubs.

Chelsea appear to be just signing guys as and when they want.

Liverpool managed to sign Ricky Lambert despite Southampton being managerless and the World Cup (excuses we hear regularly).

Kagawa

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It seems that way for most other clubs.

Chelsea appear to be just signing guys as and when they want.

Liverpool managed to sign Ricky Lambert despite Southampton being managerless and the World Cup (excuses we hear regularly).

I agree, too many other big clubs seal deals quickly and efficiently. United seem to be next to clueless!

Neeson

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Because it's not like walking into a shop and saying I'll have that one, that one and one of those.

This is true. I suppose you have to realise these things go about in cycles. John Giles told us this before. There was a time when Manchester United could go after players and say I want him and they'd get him. Now other clubs have equal power and even more power.

Lord TSC

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Liverpool decided they wanted Southampton's star striker and they just bought him.

We seem to be on the verge of signing Shaw for weeks...I agree with FutureGuy...I can see him going to Chelski

Star striker? Jesus, you make it sound like they bought Messi, not a 32 year old in his twilight years to be a back up...

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

go back to those summers and have a read up if you like.

I browsed a few times the last week. Interesting reading.

You need to back up these claims of what was supposedly said. Otherwise it is pointless comment. For all we know you're talking about the opinions of random trolls that were ignored/argued by the majority at the time.

alchemist33

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

My hope is that we have a plan and it's in motion with or without Van Gaal in Manchester but I don't know.....

I assumed when LVG met Giggs, he gave Giggs his shopping list and it was his job to do the cajoling with Woody. But he hasn't been seen or heard of since LVG's appointment

Rubber_Soul

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It seems that way for most other clubs.

Chelsea appear to be just signing guys as and when they want.

Liverpool managed to sign Ricky Lambert despite Southampton being managerless and the World Cup (excuses we hear regularly).

Maybe to you it appears that way but I'm guessing you don't follow other clubs transfer activities as close as Utds. Chelsea have been after a top class forward since last Summer.

Are you really trying to make out that Liverpool signing a 32 year old, lifelong fan of the club as a back up forward is an example of them flexing their muscle in the transfer market?

TheTownie

Headshot wrote: »

We are still suffering from the Moyes effect.

We are also still suffering from the amateurish and naive transition planning for the Fergie/Gill departures.

Amazing a club of Utd's stature could make such a meal of it.

Neeson

alchemist33 wrote: »

I assumed when LVG met Giggs, he gave Giggs his shopping list and it was his job to do the cajoling with Woody. But he hasn't been seen or heard of since LVG's appointment

Giggs was busy making a documentary. Duhhhh.

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

You need to back up these claims of what was supposedly said. Otherwise it is pointless comment. For all we know you're talking about the opinions of random trolls that were ignored/argued by the majority at the time.

Ya no worries will pop them up when get time to do it proper.

How Soon Is Now

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Maybe to you it appears that way but I'm guessing you don't follow other clubs transfer activities as close as Utds. Chelsea have been after a top class forward since last Summer.

Are you really trying to make out that Liverpool signing a 32 year old, lifelong fan of the club as a back up forward is an example of them flexing their muscle in the transfer market?

I think it's more people saying other teams can spot where they need a player and more then likely go in and get the deal done. Yet at United it's always a drawn out affair that a lot of the time we fail at the end.

fuzzydunlop85

Panic seems to be setting in and I tend to agree.So lads who are our realistic targets now? Seems the elite level players don't want to sign for us. Who are we left with? That Ukrainian winger, a crocked strootman, a couple of young Dutch guys and shaw(hopefully). Would people be happy if these were our transfer dealings? This definitely won't have us challenging for the league and would definitely see us struggle for 4th I think.

Kagawa

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Panic seems to be setting in and I tend to agree.So lads who are our realistic targets now? Seems the elite level players don't want to sign for us. Who are we left with? That Ukrainian winger, a crocked strootman, a couple of young Dutch guys and shaw(hopefully). Would people be happy if these were our transfer dealings? This definitely won't have us challenging for the league and would definitely see us struggle for 4th I think.

I agree that we can't compete for the best players, I won't be happy with second tier players either though. They simply won't improve the team enough.

tallaghtmick

Liverpool have Lambert and have bid for Lallana and some German guy, we really will be dragging our heels all summer.

Rubber_Soul

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I think it's more people saying other teams can spot where they need a player and more often not go in and get the deal done. Yet at United it's always a drawn out affair that a lot of the time we fail at the end.

Well then why didn't Jose get the forward he was after last Summer, or in January? Or City get DeRossi? It happens to all clubs.

This time though it appears we never even made a move for him which would indicate we have zero interest in him (or he has no interest in us), and yet still people are on screaming about how useless we are at transfers.

Pro. F

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I think it's more people saying other teams can spot where they need a player and more then likely go in and get the deal done. 1: Yet at United it's always a drawn out affair that2: a lot of the time we fail at the end.

1: That is not true

2: That is true for the majority of clubs

Lord TSC

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Liverpool have Lambert and have bid for Lallana and some German guy, we really will be dragging our heels all summer.

I'll be honest, I'd rather we "drag our heels" and get what we need than be aiming for the level of Lambert and Lallana.

I also think if all we were after was a 3rd string striker and the Southampton captain, we'd likely be flying with our business as well...

tallaghtmick

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'll be honest, I'd rather we "drag our heels" and get what we need than be aiming for the level of Lambert and Lallana.

I also think if all we were after was a 3rd string striker and the Southampton captain, we'd likely be flying with our business as well...

They need squad players and are getting transfers done early, we need 1st teamers and have done nothing yet.

Mitch Connor

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'll be honest, I'd rather we "drag our heels" and get what we need than be aiming for the level of Lambert and Lallana.

I also think if all we were after was a 3rd string striker and the Southampton captain, we'd likely be flying with our business as well...

Same reasoning was thrown about last summer. Plenty of time, plenty of players, blah blah blah.

Lord TSC

tallaghtmick wrote: »

They need squad players and are getting transfers done early, we need 1st teamers and have done nothing yet.

You don't see the difference in difficulty level between the two?

Mitch Connor

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You don't see the difference in difficulty level between the two?

Chelsea getting Costa and fabregas done?

Al Capwned

I don't normally post these things as many of you know.
However.....

A mate of mine was chatting to Ryan Giggs today. His best buddy is a taxi driver, and Giggs and the wife were in Dublin in his cab.
He rang my mate, and Giggsy was happy to chat to him...

He told him that Shaw is a done deal.

__


I await the backlash from all the naysayers, and I have no reason to believe him apart from the fact he's me mate. So take it how you will.

Edit - for what it's worth, there is a picture of Giggsy and me mate's mate.....

How Soon Is Now

Pro. F wrote: »

1: That is not true

2: That is true for the majority of clubs

You don agree that we beat around the bush when it comes to most of our dealings with players? Its cost us plenty of times in the past making offers bit by bit for players when other clubs just go straight in with a proper offer and try and sort it as soon as possible.

Not every club goes in and gets there main targets but they at least manage to attract other players instead.

Look at the players most of our rivals have brought in over the last few years and compare it to the ones United have.

Van Persie and Mata where two huge signings but they just covered up for not being able to deal with the real issues.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Chelsea getting Costa and fabregas done?

Chelsea have been impressive, not going to doubt that.

But there's no bonus points for speed. I'll judge the United transfer window on its entirety.

How Soon Is Now

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Well then why didn't Jose get the forward he was after last Summer, or in January? Or City get DeRossi? It happens to all clubs.

This time though it appears we never even made a move for him which would indicate we have zero interest in him (or he has no interest in us), and yet still people are on screaming about how useless we are at transfers.

Eto came in for Chelsea and scored a few when needed in a small enough amount of games. Fernandinho was one of citys most important players last season. United s summer signing well we all know how that went....

Captain Morgan Freeman

It's a tricky situation with Van Gaal at the moment as you would imagine for the next few weeks he's going to be focused 100% on his job at the world cup and will have little if any contact with United.
Im sure he's told United who he wants but what happens if say one of his targets is valued by their club at above what Woodward/Glazers would be willing to pay? Do they move for another target without going to Van Gall first?

I don't think you can go ahead and sign players without his go ahead first out of fear of being left behind as he "seems" like a manager who would happily not play someone he didn't approve of just to prove a point.
Im merely speculating on the second part of my post though based on what ive heard of Van Gaal.

The_Kew_Tour

I think many people, myself included, expected a signing if not 2 done by now.

But I think LVG knows what he wants and I trust in him to be the reason we get players.

Pro. F

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

You don agree that we beat around the bush when it comes to most of our dealings with players? Its cost us plenty of times in the past making offers bit by bit for players when other clubs just go straight in with a proper offer and try and sort it as soon as possible.

You said that at United it is always a drawn out affair. That is not true. That is not even close to true.

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Not every club goes in and gets there main targets but they at least manage to attract other players instead.

Look at the players most of our rivals have brought in over the last few years and compare it to the ones United have.

Van Persie and Mata where two huge signings but they just covered up for not being able to deal with the real issues.

Over the last few years United have brought in Mata, Fellaini, Kagawa, van Persie, Jones and de Gea among others. What rivals are you thinking of that have such a better track record of signing players?

alchemist33

Guillem Balague ‏@GuillemBalague 2m

Cesc hasnt got a deal with Chelsea, it doesnt matter what Pique or others say. Not yet. Conversations taking place but NO DEAL YET. Not yet

So it's confirmed then. He's going to Chelsea

How Soon Is Now

Pro. F wrote: »

You said that at United it is always a drawn out affair. That is not true. That is not even close to true.



Over the last few years United have brought in Mata, Fellaini, Kagawa, van Persie, Jones and de Gea among others. What rivals are you thinking of that have such a better track record of signing players?

Van Persie and only recently De Gea and maybe Mata have proved to be hits out of the ones you mentioned.

City s transfers over the last few seasons : http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-city-transfers.html

Chelseas : http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/chelsea-transfers.html

Manchester Uniteds : http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-united-transfers.html

Pro. F

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Van Persie and only recently De Gea and maybe Mata have proved to be hits out of the ones you mentioned.

That is a completely different argument. You were complaining that United always take a long time to sort out transfers and that they fail more often than their rivals. That is what I was disagreeing with you on.

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

City s transfers over the last few seasons : http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-city-transfers.html

Chelseas : http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/chelsea-transfers.html

Manchester Uniteds : http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-united-transfers.html

Chelsea and City are not our rivals in the transfer market. Complaining about the fact that United can't sign players as easily as Chelsea and City is ridiculous. Of course we can't.

Sheepy99

Reckon Fabregas is off to City or maybe Arsenal. Can't see him at all going to Chelsea, surprised ye're seemingly not in for him after all the speculation and ye were the only one being reported for months.

stankratz

stankratz wrote: »

Sure he posts here in the forum regularly doesn't he?! I'm not going to name names, but an aroused man walking sideways through an airport security scanner on his way to Thailand is always going to...

Timmyctc wrote: »

?

Bangkok

Sheepy99

irishfeen wrote: »

I'm actually getting uneasy now, direct rivals are strengthening in areas which let them down last season - United finished 7th and don't seem even close to completing a signing of any real note.

To be fair, no need to jump the gun yet, nobody's officially signed anybody, bar Liverpool with Lambert.
I'd only be inclined to believe something when it's reported on Sky (papers are too unreliable to take seriously), in which case Chelsea nearly have Costa but have nobody else up 'til this point, with City, Arsenal and (basically) Liverpool having done nothing themselves.
Early days, especially with the World Cup.
Never know who ye might pull off.

How Soon Is Now

Pro. F wrote: »

That is a completely different argument. You were complaining that United always take a long time to sort out transfers and that they fail more often than their rivals. That is what I was disagreeing with you on.



Chelsea and City are not our rivals in the transfer market. Complaining about the fact that United can't sign players as easily as Chelsea and City is ridiculous. Of course we can't.

But there our main rivals in the league what they do during a transfer window will affect us. My point was United have a history of not getting deals done in the past with players. They also have a history of pretty much ignoring areas that needed to be improved on.

We have been low balling when it comes to transfer fees then you see the likes of Chelsea or City come in and offer the money wanted and more often then not the players theres. Yes they clearly have more money then us but where not a poor club ffs where just being tight when theres no need to be.

We had the money to splash out on two 30 plus mill players last year and other years so why the need to low ball and lose out on other deals?

We should be able to attract players unless where been outbid in a huge way theres no excuses.

I honestly think where trying to save money on deals and in doing so we lose out when other clubs are willing to spend. Fabregas last year was a perfect example.

Pro. F

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

But there our main rivals in the league what they do during a transfer window will affect us. My point was United have a history of not getting deals done in the past with players. They also have a history of pretty much ignoring areas that needed to be improved on.

We have been low balling when it comes to transfer fees then you see the likes of Chelsea or City come in and offer the money wanted and more often then not the players theres. Yes they clearly have more money then us but where not a poor club ffs where just being tight when theres no need to be.

We had the money to splash out on two 30 plus mill players last year and other years so why the need to long ball and lose out on other deals?

We should be able to attract players unless where been outbid in a huge way theres no excuses.

I honestly think where trying to save money on deals and in doing so we lose out when other clubs are willing to spend. Fabregas last year was a perfect example.

City and Chelsea have sugar daddies that can afford to waste money that we cannot. That is why they get their deals done easier than United. The fact that we are trying to compete with them on the pitch does not mean that we should be able to compete with them in the transfer market. There is no argument to be had here, United cannot compete with City and Chelsea in the transfer market.

United do not have a history of failing to conclude deals any more than the other clubs who have a similar transfer spend to us.

The fact that United have bought too many strikers, wingers and centre-backs rather than other areas that needed fixing is not something I disagree with. It is also not an issue that has been caused by how we conduct transfer negotiations, but rather who Fergie and Moyes chose to go for.

Edit: I agree that it's possible that last summer United low balled too much. But, again, that is not what I disagreed with about in your post.

Sheepy99

Wouldn't like to start a fight but there's something I was curious about,
Do/How most most of you believe stories that appear in the newspaper? honestly
From reading a few pages back i've seen posts about how Fabregas is going to Chelsea, ye were in for Kroos until Van Gaal said no, similar to Fabregas, then further back that at one stage the Shaw deal was as good as done, just to name a few.

All of these stories seem to have come from one newspaper or another, which are wrong 99% of the time about transfers ( this is one of those seldom times where that figure is not an exaggeration )

Unless it's on Skysportsnews i'd always take any other story wit a pinch of salt. That said, none of these stories have appeared on the channel, so who knows what's going on behind the scenes. Chill out lads, judging by a few pages of reading some of ye are freaking out or holding no hope.
Ye could well end up with Kroos/Fabregas or somebody else of that quality, along with Shaw.

GSPfan

You're wasting your breath asking people to dismiss paper/twitter rumours. It's the best part of their days.

Sheepy99

I know, I know . I just hate it being seen as the gospel so often

Sheepy99

Sheepy99 wrote: »

Wouldn't like to start a fight but there's something I was curious about,
Do/How most most of you believe stories that appear in the newspaper? honestly
From reading a few pages back i've seen posts about how Fabregas is going to Chelsea, ye were in for Kroos until Van Gaal said no, similar to Fabregas, then further back that at one stage the Shaw deal was as good as done, just to name a few.

All of these stories seem to have come from one newspaper or another, which are wrong 99% of the time about transfers ( this is one of those seldom times where that figure is not an exaggeration )

Unless it's on Skysportsnews i'd always take any other story wit a pinch of salt. That said, none of these stories have appeared on the channel, so who knows what's going on behind the scenes. Chill out lads, judging by a few pages of reading some of ye are freaking out or holding no hope.
Ye could well end up with Kroos/Fabregas or somebody else of that quality, along with Shaw.

I'm not hitting panic stations and won't for another 6 weeks or so, but you can't blame fans for getting a little tetchy, for 2 reasons IMO...

1) The failure of last summer.

2) The apparent ease our rivals have with their "We want that player, deal done" swift movements in the transfer market.

You are right though, far too much attention is being paid to the rags which need to fill column inches in order to make money.

How Soon Is Now

Pro. F wrote: »

City and Chelsea have sugar daddies that can afford to waste money that we cannot. That is why they get their deals done easier than United. The fact that we are trying to compete with them on the pitch does not mean that we should be able to compete with them in the transfer market. There is no argument to be had here, United cannot compete with City and Chelsea in the transfer market.

United do not have a history of failing to conclude deals any more than the other clubs who have a similar transfer spend to us.

The fact that United have bought too many strikers, wingers and centre-backs rather than other areas that needed fixing is not something I disagree with. It is also not an issue that has been caused by how we conduct transfer negotiations, but rather who Fergie and Moyes chose to go for.

Edit: I agree that it's possible that last summer United low balled too much. But, again, that is not what I disagreed with about in your post.

I actually get my posts crossed sometimes on here as im posting from my phone alot of the time and i find it harder to get what im trying to say across .

Basically i think united have shown in the past they can get deals done big deals but the issue is there not always the ones that where needed. I think before Chelsea and City came into money we didnt have that many issues in the league with spending. Its a whole different ball game now and i look at some of the players they have brought in and think god if we could of even gotten one or two of them how different would things be now.......

Unless we actually know what is going on behind the scenes its hard to know what mistakes are being made and whos making them but clearly someone is not doing there job right because we are yet to address issues at the club for years now and its not as if we have not had many many chances to.

We cant even say its one person because its clearly not.

I still think we need to act faster if where not going to be able to out bid certain teams then we have to act before they do and try and close a deal pay the extra five or so million if needed and get the player we want. I know its not always that simple but where not a small club! we should be able to attract big names every year.

2moreMinutes

GSPfan wrote: »

You're wasting your breath asking people to dismiss paper/twitter rumours. It's the best part of their days.

Its actually bordering on being quite embarrassing reading some of the reactions to nothing but rumours and counter-rumours. The reaction of some to Pique's world exclusive reveal has moved beyond embarrassing to being very funny.

Pro. F

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I actually get my posts crossed sometimes on here as im posting from my phone alot of the time and i find it harder to get what im trying to say across .

Basically i think united have shown in the past they can get deals done big deals but the issue is there not always the ones that where needed. I think before Chelsea and City came into money we didnt have that many issues in the league with spending. Its a whole different ball game now and i look at some of the players they have brought in and think god if we could of even gotten one or two of them how different would things be now.......

Of course things are different now. There are two sugar daddy clubs who can afford to dwarf our transfer spend.

And United are still getting big deals done. We just bought Mata a few months ago for fúck's sake.

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Unless we actually know what is going on behind the scenes its hard to know what mistakes are being made and whos making them but clearly someone is not doing there job right because we are yet to address issues at the club for years now and its not as if we have not had many many chances to.

We cant even say its one person because its clearly not.

I still think we need to act faster if where not going to be able to out bid certain teams then we have to act before they do and try and close a deal pay the extra five or so million if needed and get the player we want. I know its not always that simple but where not a small club! we should be able to attract big names every year.

We do attract big names every year. This year we bought Mata. Last year we bought RvP and Kagawa. The previous year we bought de Gea.