Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

kryogen

Larry Wildman wrote: »

And Liverpool sign German Under 21 international midfielder Emre Can for €12m...

Release clause triggered...Bang.

Bayer Leverkeusen said to have been "powerless" once the clause was triggered.

That's how to do business.

Woodward would have bid €9m, then €10m and then Leverkeusen would have refused to do business with United because they don't like being messed around. yeah so then we bid 12 since they are powerless to do anything then

Rodgers said to have bid for left back Moreno and midfielder Lallana also.

Depressing stuff for us.

Breaking a release clause of less then £10m is fine and good, breaking them for people with £40m ones are a bit different wouldn't you say?

Structuring the payments over a few years is essential to most clubs, for a relatively small fee, like the ones United broke no problem for the likes of Smalling, even up to Zaha and Jones there is no problem getting deals done.

Its when you move up the scale of fees that the problems arise, understandably

Good bit of business today by Liverpool if the Can one is also going through, Moreno is a player I like and they had the fee agreed there earlier on

kryogen

Professional Griefer wrote: »

Its so annoying that we passed up on Strootman last year. The club really needs to take more risks.

Ah but then you have the extreme criticism of risk taking of Jones, Zaha, Kagawa, Anderson, Bebe etc etc etc

Larry Wildman

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah that is true if you completely ignore the fact that we signed Mata a few months ago.

A player who we didn't need and who Chelsea didn't want.

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Talk of rakitic to Barca... Wonder if that means they are not going for koke, meaning we might have a shot there.

I'd love Rakitic

Pro. F

Larry Wildman wrote: »

A player who we didn't need and who Chelsea didn't want.

That's got nothing to do with what you said.

If you had said something like "We have bought to many central attacking players and not enough central midfielders or left-backs" then I would have agreed with you. I've said that myself loads of times.

But what you actually said was:
"It's depressing because (as other have pointed out) our rivals seem to just do their business. Bang...player signed.
Whereas we seem to just f..k around until the last minute and then overpay for guys like Fellaini, have fake lawyers representing us / not representing us and botch scenarios where guys have release clauses."

glued

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It's depressing because (as other have pointed out) our rivals seem to just do their business. Bang...player signed.

Whereas we seem to just f..k around until the last minute and then overpay for guys like Fellaini, have fake lawyers representing us / not representing us and botch scenarios where guys have release clauses.

Okay well lets look at the situation....

Manchester United have had a manager in the job less than a month with no time to prepare for transfers in the closing months of the season meanwhile both Chelsea and Liverpool have had managers in position and probably have had negotiations ongoing for a much longer period than we've even had a manager.

Let's be realistic this Summer is going to be a slight struggle. Van Gaal is a very particular person and is a man who perceives mentality to be a huge factor in his success. He's probably going to want to sit down and talk to players.

Let's be frank here Woodward or van Gaal isn't the problem. People over complicate transfers. There are teams of people involved to sort out payment dates, contract language, legal boundaries, currency exchange etc. but the crux of the negotiation is quite simplistic. Like anything there will be an amount of haggling involved but often there is certain element of bureaucracy involved too which can block the sale of transfers. Woodward has shown his ability as a negotiator with his millions of pounds he gained the club through his role as commercial director. People really try an overcomplicate the negotiating phase when most of the hard work is drawing up contracts and accounting issues post agreement.

The problem is that we've had very little time to prepare for this transfer window. Van Gaal doesn't want Moyes' old targets and he most definitely should have the final in say in who we buy and sell.

Woodward is the scapegoat from years of neglect from Fergsuon to address core player problems and Moyes' idiotic transfer policy (Fellaini better suited to United than Thiago etc.)

Manutd_4life

Any updates on the Fabregas story after pique was said to have said he was sold to some english club for 33million

kryogen

Well according to Mitch its done and dusted so not much more to talk about there I suppose.

Manutd_4life

kryogen wrote: »

Well according to Mitch its done and dusted so not much more to talk about there I suppose.

Done and dusted to where???

How Soon Is Now

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

There's your problem. No god you see.

You won't be saying That when we sign Messi! :-) ha.

Larry Wildman

Pro. F wrote: »

That's got nothing to do with what you said.

If you had said something like "We have bought to many central attacking players and not enough central midfielders or left-backs" then I would have agreed with you. I've said that myself loads of times.

But what you actually said was:
"It's depressing because (as other have pointed out) our rivals seem to just do their business. Bang...player signed.
Whereas we seem to just f..k around until the last minute and then overpay for guys like Fellaini, have fake lawyers representing us / not representing us and botch scenarios where guys have release clauses."

Which clearly doesn't apply to Mata whose club wanted rid of him and who (it seems) nobody else wanted. Pretty easy to do business in those circumstances.

I can see your point though.

I'm despondent to be honest regarding our transfer business over recent years to be honest. Mata included because we didn't need him and desperately needed other players. It was like buying a Ferrari when you have a Lamborghini and your house's roof has fallen in.

DARK-KNIGHT

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Which clearly doesn't apply to Mata whose club wanted rid of him and who (it seems) nobody else wanted. Pretty easy to do business in those circumstances.

Nobody else wanted juan mata? What have you been smoking

Larry Wildman

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Nobody else wanted juan mata? What have you been smoking

Who wanted him? Who were we up against?

I'm not looking for a row or trying to be argumentative...I genuinely don't remember there being any other roosters in the henhouse when we signed Juan Mata.

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Which clearly doesn't apply to Mata whose club wanted rid of him and who (it seems) nobody else wanted. Pretty easy to do business in those circumstances.

To scale

DARK-KNIGHT

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Who wanted him? Who were we up against?

He wanted the move to happen firstly.... secondly we paid top dollar we are as close as guaranteeing him his place starting and was done in january top clubs in europe probably werent in for him with being cup tied... its smart business signing him

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Who wanted him? Who were we up against?

I would think a whole host of clubs would have wanted the services of Mata. He's a fantastic footballer and a lot of clubs would have wanted him.

We would paid 10 million for him if he was a player no one wanted.

mewe

Giggs doc on ITV in a few now incase anyone's forgot!

Lord TSC

Ah but we are back to a problem here; if the work to sign players isn't seen, then it simply isn't happening at all, right?

We didn't see anyone after Mata. Hence no one else wanted him or even tried.

billyhead

glued wrote: »

Okay well lets look at the situation....

Manchester United have had a manager in the job less than a month with no time to prepare for transfers in the closing months of the season meanwhile both Chelsea and Liverpool have had managers in position and probably have had negotiations ongoing for a much longer period than we've even had a manager.

Let's be realistic this Summer is going to be a slight struggle. Van Gaal is a very particular person and is a man who perceives mentality to be a huge factor in his success. He's probably going to want to sit down and talk to players.

Let's be frank here Woodward or van Gaal isn't the problem. People over complicate transfers. There are teams of people involved to sort out payment dates, contract language, legal boundaries, currency exchange etc. but the crux of the negotiation is quite simplistic. Like anything there will be an amount of haggling involved but often there is certain element of bureaucracy involved too which can block the sale of transfers. Woodward has shown his ability as a negotiator with his millions of pounds he gained the club through his role as commercial director. People really try an overcomplicate the negotiating phase when most of the hard work is drawing up contracts and accounting issues post agreement.

The problem is that we've had very little time to prepare for this transfer window. Van Gaal doesn't want Moyes' old targets and he most definitely should have the final in say in who we buy and sell.

Woodward is the scapegoat from years of neglect from Fergsuon to address core player problems and Moyes' idiotic transfer policy (Fellaini better suited to United than Thiago etc.)

Great post. Transfers are fairly complicated and can be drawn out affairs their is a lot involved in the negotiating and sorting out the financial aspect of it and both parties haggling over a fee. Its not a ase of picking players off the supermarket shelve. We need to be patient and have full faith and trust in LVG. The time to start being pessimistic is the 31st August if we still have not signed anyone

Larry Wildman

Problem is if it ends up being too late for Van Gaal to do the business that he wants (or if he prefers to assess the squad before signing anyone), next season (1/3 of his contract) could be a write-off...

Forgive my pessimism guys...to be honest, I'm despondent. City and Chelsea are disappearing over the horizon, Rodgers' Liverpool are on an upward trajectory, Arsenal are Arsenal and Spurs may just have cracked it with Pochettino.

Manutd_4life

Jose Mourinho just said when asked about Cesc Fabregas:

''He's going to sign for Chelsea or another English club''

There's still hope

Kerrydude1981

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Problem is if it ends up being too late for Van Gaal to do the business that he wants (or if he prefers to assess the squad before signing anyone), next season (1/3 of his contract) could be a write-off...

Forgive my pessimism guys...to be honest, I'm despondent. City and Chelsea are disappearing over the horizon, Rodgers' Liverpool are on an upward trajectory, Arsenal are Arsenal and Spurs may just have cracked it with Pochettino.

I wouldn't blame you been despondent,but,

I do think LVG will get in a few players that will improve the squad and then you have his way of playing which could be a major point in how the team plays next season put it this this way they cant be any worse then last season,

He will also have the fear factor on the line and that alone should get fella's to pull the finger out and get results.

Pro. F

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Which clearly doesn't apply to Mata whose club wanted rid of him and who (it seems) nobody else wanted. Pretty easy to do business in those circumstances.

I can see your point though.

I'm despondent to be honest regarding our transfer business over recent years to be honest. Mata included because we didn't need him and desperately needed other players. It was like buying a Ferrari when you have a Lamborghini and your house's roof has fallen in.

The idea that nobody else wanted Mata is laughable. He fell out of favour with Mourinho so a move became possible. It was still a massive coup for United to sign him.

I know you are despondent. It is obviously clouding your judgement on what the evidence is for how successful or not the club have been at conducting transfer negotiations.

Liam O

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Problem is if it ends up being too late for Van Gaal to do the business that he wants (or if he prefers to assess the squad before signing anyone), next season (1/3 of his contract) could be a write-off...

Forgive my pessimism guys...to be honest, I'm despondent. City and Chelsea are disappearing over the horizon, Rodgers' Liverpool are on an upward trajectory, Arsenal are Arsenal and Spurs may just have cracked it with Pochettino.

I don't think you know what a write off means.

Larry Wildman

Liam O wrote: »

I don't think you know what a write off means.

It's a write-off in my book if Van Gaal starts the season wanting to assess Cleverley etc and then realises they're sh1te at which point the best guys have been hoovered up leaving us struggling.

It's a write-off if we postpone the massive remedial work that's required.

Lest we forget, we've now lost Ferdinand and Vidic...Giggs too. A huge rebuilding job is required and we effectively don't have a manager.

MagicIRL

Giggs, Giggs will tear you apart! That was awesome.

Quandary

That Giggs documentary was very enjoyable.

Now excuse me for a moment, I think I have something in my eye...

Liam O

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It's a write-off in my book if Van Gaal starts the season wanting to assess Cleverley etc and then realises they're sh1te at which point the best guys have been hoovered up leaving us struggling.

It's a write-off if we postpone the massive remedial work that's required.

Lest we forget, we've now lost Ferdinand and Vidic...Giggs too. A huge rebuilding job is required and we effectively don't have a manager.

Keane is capable of replacing Rio's squad role. A CB is only needed because of Evans, Jones and Smalling being injury prone. If 2 of them can stay fit then it's not that big of a deal bit that's obviously a big if.

What if LVG didn't buy anyone(won't happen but let's say it anyway) and implemented his style on the players who are there and waited for the players he wants in January or next season? That could hardly be construed a write off.

The_Kew_Tour

Just here to say hello.

FutureGuy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just here to say hello.

Something's happening...

isn't it...

Larry Wildman

Liam O wrote: »

Keane is capable of replacing Rio's squad role. A CB is only needed because of Evans, Jones and Smalling being injury prone. If 2 of them can stay fit then it's not that big of a deal bit that's obviously a big if.

What if LVG didn't buy anyone(won't happen but let's say it anyway) and implemented his style on the players who are there and waited for the players he wants in January or next season? That could hardly be construed a write off.

It's tough to do business in January and if we're waiting until January or next summer for the remedial work that we all know is required, then the 2014/2015 is the definition of a write-off in my view.

The remedial work needs to be done NOW. We need a centre half, at least one midfielder (and probably two) and a left back NOW.

If we do no business this summer we are donald ducked.

Mitch Connor

Liam O wrote: »

Keane is capable of replacing Rio's squad role. A CB is only needed because of Evans, Jones and Smalling being injury prone. If 2 of them can stay fit then it's not that big of a deal bit that's obviously a big if.

What if LVG didn't buy anyone(won't happen but let's say it anyway) and implemented his style on the players who are there and waited for the players he wants in January or next season? That could hardly be construed a write off.

Two seasons of failing to qualify for the CL would be an absolute disaster, we can't afford to take risks this season. Obviously there is no certainty about qualifying for the CL, regardless of what we do in the summer window, but we can't basically give up on the goal by doing nothing this summer.

Mitch Connor

FutureGuy wrote: »

Something's happening...

isn't it...

NOTHING is happening. NOTHING.

Larry Wildman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just here to say hello.

Have you transfer news? Please say you do.

The_Kew_Tour

FutureGuy wrote: »

Something's happening...

isn't it...

Ya WC starts next week

MagicIRL

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just here to say hello.

WHAT DO YOU ELF EYES SEE!?

ElChe32

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just here to say hello.

TELL US SOMETHING YOU TRANSFER SLAAAAAGGGG! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Larry Wildman

Cesc is coming...

Copper_pipe

Vidal is coming....

Adamcp898

Winter is coming....

The_Kew_Tour

Like I said before I don't do teasing and if I hear something will be straight.

I just wanted to say hello

ShaneU

Disappointment is coming ...

dahat

Shaw fee agreed is the whispers on Twitter plus Vidal coming and Hummel's and Schwestaiger (spelling).....though I hope something is happening,anything at this point.

Liam O

Kew to replace Andy Burton as the transfer gimp Regale us with you knowledge Kew!

Lord TSC

Guardian reporting Mangala would prefer us over City...no idea why...

ElChe32

Don't do this to me Kew...I said I wouldn't fall for you sexy flirty eyes again..

Larry Wildman

dahat wrote: »

Shaw fee agreed is the whispers on Twitter plus Vidal coming and Hummel's and Schwestaiger (spelling).....though I hope something is happening,anything at this point.

If that comes to pass...Sweet Divine Jesus

The_Kew_Tour

Liam O wrote: »

Kew to replace Andy Burton as the transfer gimp Regale us with you knowledge Kew!

Tbf I had great record last season was very proud.

Pretty much in the ball I was.

Anyway I wont be throwing up much if anything.

I hope we get good summer and v confident we will.

TheTownie

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Guardian reporting Mangala would prefer us over City...no idea why...

Followed by saying Van Gaal isn't keen. :pac:

Article by Jamie Jackson;

Eliaquim Mangala, Manchester City’s No1 summer transfer target, would prefer a move to Manchester United, though Louis van Gaal is not prioritising the Porto central defender because of reservations over his temperament.

The_Kew_Tour

dahat wrote: »

Shaw fee agreed is the whispers on Twitter plus Vidal coming and Hummel's and Schwestaiger (spelling).....though I hope something is happening,anything at this point.

If that happens I will walk on broken glass, barefoot, all the way to your house, or else I will just be really happy.