Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

homerjay2005

M!Ck^ wrote: »

One bad game in a international friendly and suddenly he's not worth it by the sounds of a few posters.

????? his performance the last day has nothing to do with people doubting if he is worth £30million or not. he wasnt worth it last week and he is not worth it today.

if the deal is done we all hope he will turn into world class superstar, but £30million is an obscene amount of money for an unproven player. doesnt say alot for our negotiation tactics either.

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

????? his performance the last day has nothing to do with people doubting if he is worth £30million or not. he wasnt worth it last week and he is not worth it today.

if the deal is done we all hope he will turn into world class superstar, but £30million is an obscene amount of money for an unproven player. doesnt say alot for our negotiation tactics either.

he had an excellent season in the premier league. if he was a proven world class player at 18 years of age you could end up paying a lot more.

look at david luiz, "proven" player Chelsea bought for 21m and he prob got worse and sold for 50m!!

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

????? his performance the last day has nothing to do with people doubting if he is worth £30million or not. he wasnt worth it last week and he is not worth it today.

if the deal is done we all hope he will turn into world class superstar, but £30million is an obscene amount of money for an unproven player. doesnt say alot for our negotiation tactics either.

We don't have much negotiation tactics when your up against a side who are competing in Europe and can throw money around at will.

I agree he's not worth 30 million but if we want him then that's what we need to pay and there's now way around it.

Deiseboy01

homerjay2005 wrote: »

massive sense of deja vu already about last summer, but you'd hope that Van Gaal will be a bit less dithering than Moyes and the deals will get done.

my main worry however is that there stilll a massive sense of the "this team were champions" attitude within the club, that multiple posters had on here last summer and they genuinely think that everything will be fine.

one question, am i the only person that has alot of reservations about signing Shaw for £30million? there seems to be a feeling that people dont care about price tag as the bigger it is, the better it makes them feel.

but people saying "sure we have plenty of money, i dont care if we overspend" need a sense check, as we have seen in the past, we tend to have a set amount of money to spend and if a big chunk of it goes on Shaw, it is highely possible other areas wont get looked after properly. Rooney and Rio worked out, but Shaw is a deal that im not fully convinced about.

I agree completely. If money is not an object then certainly fire ahead but I think we ll have 100 mill plus money from sales tops to spend. 30 on a left back is huge. More so a relatively unproven one. Big risk.

Maybe its because I haven't seen a lot of him so willing to be led by other solid poster's opinion on this one plus I can see the upside of sorting a position for a decade and a half if it works out.

Overall I m not too concerned about us not signing a raft of big name signings. Id nearly rather VG spring a few surprises over the next couple of months rather than just spend 60 mill on Vidal or some other name.

One big name centre back or centre mid and three or four more low key young players would be an excellent start. No Europe so he can make a couple of adjustments, secure CL next year then push on again the following summer with no tournament football to complicate matters.

bangkok

and looks like mangala prefers united over city...

TheDoc

RE: Rooney, Pro.F pretty much changed my opinion a while back when we had a natter about Rooney.

When I put aside my personal dislike of the man for his behaviour, it's hard to not appreciate he has been a high performing top attacking player in one of the best/toughest leagues for a decade.

In terms of Scholes, not sure. Probably lining himself up for some work going forward. He's a straight talker with no sugar coating, but I'm disappointed hes working with PP a company that slaughtered and humiliated the club on a weekly basis.

I get the impression that he has beef with the club, hopefully doesn't turn into a Keane type pantomime figure, that mans reputation has been well and truely shattered in my eyes

newballsplease

Could the death of Mr.Glazer be having an impact on the clubs future spending? Could this be slowing down things? Maybe the glazers arent sanctioning any transfers yet.

Timmyctc

Paddy Power just posted this link of Januzaj belter in training

Timmyctc

Timmyctc wrote: »

Paddy Power just posted this link of Januzaj belter in training

****ing dinger :pac:

homerjay2005

newballsplease wrote: »

Could the death of Mr.Glazer be having an impact on the clubs future spending? Could this be slowing down things? Maybe the glazers arent sanctioning any transfers yet.

Glazer has been very ill for a long time, his input and impact in the club has been gone for years so the answer to both questions is no. i am sure that anything regards budgets would have been agreed months ago, or well at least you'd hope so anyway.

the most logical explanation of nothing done so far is simple - we had a huge volume of work done on certain targets and its pretty much been ripped apart by Van Gaal and while i dont think its a case of starting all over again, it definately means we are in for a long and somewhat frustrating summer.

Maximus Alexander

I bet Moyes would have had a couple of signings made by now. :pac:

Deiseboy01

Nuts102 wrote: »

Last season Barkley was on loan in the Championship where he played 17 games and Fellaini was probably Everton's best player. Offering 20 million but have been stupid and horrible business.

Barkley has had a decent season playing in a position we don't need to sign and has already had two serious injuries. Their is no way i would sign him and their is no way you could suggest we signed him for 20 million last summer.

Surely Moyes could see the potential. Twenty million for that level of raw potential is not a stupid move. Plus long term I can see him playing centre mid if required something i dont think Rooney, Mata or Kags can do. Also we didnt have Mata at the time just a non performing Kagawa so even as a ten he was worth a punt at that money.

Adamcp898

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I bet Moyes would have had a couple of signings made by now. :pac:

Hypothetically speaking, if we get to the end of the Summer and say all we have signed is an unfit Kevin Strootman, would people have been happier with LVG and Strootman or Moyes and say Kroos, Carvalho, Shaw, and Hummels(or another similarly rated CB)?

Lord TSC

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, if we get to the end of the Summer and say all we have signed is an unfit Kevin Strootman, would people have been happier with LVG and Strootman or Moyes and say Kroos, Carvalho, Shaw, and Hummels(or another similarly rated CB)?

I would have been happier with Klopp, Ronaldo, Messi and Bale....since we are running hypotheticals...

homerjay2005

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, if we get to the end of the Summer and say all we have signed is an unfit Kevin Strootman, would people have been happier with LVG and Strootman or Moyes and say Kroos, Carvalho, Shaw, and Hummels(or another similarly rated CB)?

id take bloody Mike Phelan in charge if it meant we signed Kroos and the other 3, it would be a super summer.

if an injured player is our only summer signing, id expect Woodward to be gone by September 2nd and Van Gaal will see people turn on him quick if he allows that though given whats gone on in the past 12 months, its something that we could expect to happen .

newballsplease

Hope LVG isnt relying on signing Strootman. That man might not be the same player again after his injury.
Id be pretty sure hes gonna sign at least 1 or 2 dutch players.
Zaha might get a chance next year as he seems to give youth a chance.

Adamcp898

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I would have been happier with Klopp, Ronaldo, Messi and Bale....since we are running hypotheticals...

I'm pointing out that if keeping Moyes meant we actually managed to sign all the players we have been reportedly very close to doing so (CB aside) would people be happy instead of basically starting from scratch in terms of signings by appointing LVG and the Summer then going the way of last Summer.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id take bloody Mike Phelan in charge if it meant we signed Kroos and the other 3, it would be a super summer.

if an injured player is our only summer signing, id expect Woodward to be gone by September 2nd and Van Gaal will see people turn on him quick if he allows that though given whats gone on in the past 12 months, its something that we could expect to happen .

Yeah Woodie could be gone if that happens, but, and I know it's not terribly fashionable, if for a moment we believe all of United's briefs to have been the truth, would it not be LVG's fault for turning down the chance to sign these players that Woodward seemingly had on a plate.

I'm feeling very hypothetical this morning.....

MagicIRL

newballsplease wrote: »

Zaha might get a chance next year as he seems to give youth a chance.

He gives youth a chance, yes, but Zaha can't even get his game at Cardiff. Lawrence, Wilson, Janko, Keane and Valera will play for the United first team before Zaha.

Robson99

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Surely Moyes could see the potential. Twenty million for that level of raw potential is not a stupid move. Plus long term I can see him playing centre mid if required something i dont think Rooney, Mata or Kags can do. Also we didnt have Mata at the time just a non performing Kagawa so even as a ten he was worth a punt at that money.

Beat me to it Deiseboy. I think Barkley will be a top class box to box midfielder in the next two years. He reminds me a lot of a young Gazza [ ive said this for a while not because some journalist had it in a paper yesterday]

newballsplease

MagicIRL wrote: »

He gives youth a chance, yes, but Zaha can't even get his game at Cardiff. Lawrence, Wilson, Janko, Keane and Valera will play for the United first team before Zaha.

Shame as he showed serious potential at CP.

Lord TSC

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I'm pointing out that if keeping Moyes meant we actually managed to sign all the players we have been reportedly very close to doing so (CB aside) would people be happy instead of basically starting from scratch in terms of signings by appointing LVG and the Summer then going the way of last Summer.

You are asking if people would rather the perfect summer transfer window or a poor one. It's pretty obvious which one people would want. It also presumes Moyes would have pulled it off which there is more evidence supporting he wouldn't than he would have.

lordgoat

newballsplease wrote: »

Shame as he showed serious potential at CP.

Big fish small pond. With an attitude than was a lot greater than his ability it seems.

Backstreet Moyes

MagicIRL wrote: »

He gives youth a chance, yes, but Zaha can't even get his game at Cardiff. Lawrence, Wilson, Janko, Keane and Valera will play for the United first team before Zaha.

Zaha has shown far more ability than any of those players so far it is bizarre to say they will play before him. Zaha probably lost his confidence after being frozen out last season i think he has great potential and hopefully LVG can improve him.

Liam O

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You are asking if people would rather the perfect summer transfer window or a poor one. It's pretty obvious which one people would want. It also presumes Moyes would have pulled it off which there is more evidence supporting he wouldn't than he would have.

I'm not sure about that at all. Woodward was waxing lyrical before Moyes left about the amount of business going to be done. Van Gaal is coming in at an even later stage than Moyes last season and I'd definitely have taken Moyes' year with the team over anything any manager could provide looking in from the side.

Adamcp898

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You are asking if people would rather the perfect summer transfer window or a poor one. It's pretty obvious which one people would want. It also presumes Moyes would have pulled it off which there is more evidence supporting he wouldn't than he would have.

No I'm saying are we better off throwing away all the groundwork seemingly done on several deals just to be rid of Moyes, or are we better off with a more accomplished manager and starting from scratch with deals? Because we know where starting from scratch left us last Summer. Hardly the same as asking ''would everyone be happy if we signed Messi?''

TheDoc

Never really sold on Zaha, as posted above attitude stinks.

Doubt he will make it to be fair unless he has a serious turnaround in attitude, and to be fair developement.

Backstreet Moyes

TheDoc wrote: »

Never really sold on Zaha, as posted above attitude stinks.

Doubt he will make it to be fair unless he has a serious turnaround in attitude, and to be fair developement.

Have you any links to talk about his poor attitude. I am not questioning you i just can't remember that being said.

kryogen

Robson99 wrote: »

Beat me to it Deiseboy. I think Barkley will be a top class box to box midfielder in the next two years. He reminds me a lot of a young Gazza [ ive said this for a while not because some journalist had it in a paper yesterday]

Maybe you think that, maybe deiseboy does, but maybe Moyes didnt and since he had probably seen a bit more of him then ye, went with his own instincts on it?

Also, was Gazza now a box to box midfielder? Would have always referred to him as an attacking midfielder personally

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

Have you any links to talk about his poor attitude. I am not questioning you i just can't remember that being said.

In other news, Wilfried Zaha could lose his place in the England under-21s after new boss Gareth Southgate was reportedly unimpressed by the United winger’s attitude.
Zaha had an altercation with former United starlet Ravel Morrison last week. But the Mirror claims it is Zaha’s attitude to playing for the under-21s in general that could see him dropped in the future.

Lord TSC

Adamcp898 wrote: »

No I'm saying are we better off throwing away all the groundwork seemingly done on several deals just to be rid of Moyes, or are we better off with a more accomplished manager and starting from scratch with deals? Because we know where starting from scratch left us last Summer. Hardly the same as asking ''would everyone be happy if we signed Messi?''

Moyes was a disaster. He spent 65m and dropped us down from 1st to 7th. There's nothing to suggest getting in more players would have changed his tactical view point, his PR disasters or any other of the negatives Moyes brought with him.

The reason I use the Messi thing though is because we're not going to have a summer where we sign no-one, its just that we aren't going to have a summer where we sign everyone quickly. It's panic that makes people think that we might have been better off with Moyes, cause we wouldn't have.

dahat

Plenty of articles around suggesting he has a stinking attitude.

Didn't he turn up.somewhere in jeans and t shirt when everyone else was suited up?

Deiseboy01

Robson99 wrote: »

Beat me to it Deiseboy. I think Barkley will be a top class box to box midfielder in the next two years. He reminds me a lot of a young Gazza [ ive said this for a while not because some journalist had it in a paper yesterday]

Spot on. Gazza is the english player he most closely resembles for me. Maybe lacks Gazzas sheer inventivness but he may get cuter in time. I think he s got the potential to be world class. If we want him hes going to cost a **** lot more this year or next than he would have last summer. Big fail by Moyes not to bring him across with him.

kryogen

If you just watched his performances and on field attitude for Cardiff you would not even need to wonder about it

kryogen

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Spot on. Gazza is the english player he most closely resembles for me. Maybe lacks Gazzas sheer inventivness but he may get cuter in time. I think he s got the potential to be world class. If we want him hes going to cost a **** lot more this year or next than he would have last summer. Big fail by Moyes not to bring him across with him.

Heard it all before, except the kids name was Jack Rodwell that time

Adamcp898

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Moyes was a disaster. He spent 65m and dropped us down from 1st to 7th. There's nothing to suggest getting in more players would have changed his tactical view point, his PR disasters or any other of the negatives Moyes brought with him.

The reason I use the Messi thing though is because we're not going to have a summer where we sign no-one, its just that we aren't going to have a summer where we sign everyone quickly. It's panic that makes people think that we might have been better off with Moyes, cause we wouldn't have.

Personally I'm happier with LVG. But I just wanted to get people's attitudes to basically what would be either; a United under Moyes who had now settled in and built a squad, or, a United under a new manager whom we could be saying by December that he needs time to settle and build his squad. Something which is very conceivable if we don't sign 3-4 key players this Summer.

bangkok

kryogen wrote: »

Heard it all before, except the kids name was Jack Rodwell that time

or remember dan gosling meant to be the next gazza as well!!

Lord TSC

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Personally I'm happier with LVG. But I just wanted to get people's attitudes to basically what would be either; a United under Moyes who had now settled in and built a squad, or, a United under a new manager whom we could be saying by December that he needs time to settle and build his squad. Something which is very conceivable if we don't sign 3-4 key players this Summer.

I genuinely don't think we won't get in a few signings. I just think the majority won't be finalized etc until after LVG starts the job full time.

I think it'll be a quiet June, a middling July and an exciting August.

Deiseboy01

Liam O wrote: »

I'm not sure about that at all. Woodward was waxing lyrical before Moyes left about the amount of business going to be done. Van Gaal is coming in at an even later stage than Moyes last season and I'd definitely have taken Moyes' year with the team over anything any manager could provide looking in from the side.

To be honest I am struggling to understand why people think signing the players VG wants will take so much time and effort. Maybe someone more ITK can educate me but is it not a case of VG identifying the players and Woodward putting together an offer that suits? VG surely has studied Utd for months, knows what we lack, has a database of players he rates highly so that should be accomplished already. Going to Club A and offering X million and then speaking to an agent to agree terms cannot be that big a deal or am I hopelessly naive? I just don't see the panic to get this done right now. Once the players are in place pre preseason then who cares.

Leftist

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

To be honest I am struggling to understand why people think signing the players VG wants will take so much time and effort. Maybe someone more ITK can educate me but is it not a case of VG identifying the players and Woodward putting together an offer that suits? VG surely has studied Utd for months, knows what we lack, has a database of players he rates highly so that should be accomplished already. Going to Club A and offering X million and then speaking to an agent to agree terms cannot be that big a deal or am I hopelessly naive? I just don't see the panic to get this done right now. Once the players are in place pre preseason then who cares.

I think you're right.

clubs don't need van gaal to be there at the negotiations. Half the clubs around now, and most in europe conduct these things without the manager involved.

My own concern is that woodward is incapable.

homerjay2005

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

To be honest I am struggling to understand why people think signing the players VG wants will take so much time and effort.

because last summer (and to a lesser extent previous summers) showed that United cannot get multiple deals done at the one time and then we end up signing players in a panic buy scenario like Fellaini and Mata***. it takes us months to sign deals that other clubs get done in weeks.

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

. Going to Club A and offering X million and then speaking to an agent to agree terms cannot be that big a deal or am I hopelessly naive? I just don't see the panic to get this done right now.

in one sense no, you are not naive as it should in theory be a straight forward business but in the United sense yes you are, weve not done anything in recent years to suggest we can go out and sign several top world class players in a the space of a few weeks. its just not in our capability to do it, especially once it hits August.

***to be clear on mata, i am delighted we signed him but it was £37.4million that should have been spent on a world class midfielder first and foremost and we already have several players like him in the squad/first team.

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I just don't see the panic to get this done right now. Once the players are in place pre preseason then who cares.

with every passing week, the likelyhood of this happening gets lesser and lesser especially with the WC happening.

Deiseboy01

kryogen wrote: »

Heard it all before, except the kids name was Jack Rodwell that time

We recognised serious potential and acted on it once before too and it worked out quite well. Rooney has been a fantastic success. This kid has the ability to make a similar impact. I would have expected Moyes to take the best Everton had to offer across with him not a mediocrity.

With regards to Rodwell I never rated him that highly, he was decent but I never bought into the hype. That said he could have made better progress at a different club. City like Chelsea are often the deathbed of young talent. Demands for instant success dont allow them to develop young players properly. Utd would have managed him far better.

Leftist

homerjay2005 wrote: »

because last summer (and to a lesser extent previous summers) showed that United cannot get multiple deals done at the one time and then we end up signing players in a panic buy scenario like Fellaini and Mata***. it takes us months to sign deals that other clubs get done in weeks.




in one sense no, you are not naive as it should in theory be a straight forward business but in the United sense yes you are, weve not done anything in recent years to suggest we can go out and sign several top world class players in a the space of a few weeks. its just not in our capability to do it, especially once it hits August.

***to be clear on mata, i am delighted we signed him but it was £37.4million that should have been spent on a world class midfielder first and foremost and we already have several players like him in the squad/first team.

good post.

united's conduct in the market for the last 10 years or so has been incompetent. Started with kenyon.

During Gill's time, people blamed the lack of funds and ferguson's disregard to the midfield requirements.

Then it was moyes choosing not to sign players. Arda Turan now claiming united choose not to sign him after a deal was close.

It could be all of those things and the status of the club working against itself.

Macca07

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

With regards to Rodwell I never rated him that highly, he was decent but I never bought into the hype. That said he could have made better progress at a different club. City like Chelsea are often the deathbed of young talent. Demands for instant success dont allow them to develop young players properly. Utd would have managed him far better.

I don't think United is the best place for a young player either anymore. In the mid to late 90s, yes, it was the best place, but United also need that instant success, and that is evident by the lack of players that come from our youth team to the first team. I think the B team idea is a great way forward for English football, Spain have it with a long time.

Macca07

Leftist wrote: »

good post.

united's conduct in the market for the last 10 years or so has been incompetent. Started with kenyon.

During Gill's time, people blamed the lack of funds and ferguson's disregard to the midfield requirements.

Then it was moyes choosing not to sign players. Arda Turan now claiming united choose not to sign him after a deal was close.

It could be all of those things and the status of the club working against itself.

A lot has changed in world football in the last ten years as well, Abramovich took ownership at Chelsea, and raised the price of footballers dramatically. United were the go-to team in late 90s, Chelsea changed that. Then City came in. We always had the money to spend, but Chelsea always had more.

Robson99

kryogen wrote: »

Maybe you think that, maybe deiseboy does, but maybe Moyes didnt and since he had probably seen a bit more of him then ye, went with his own instincts on it?

Also, was Gazza now a box to box midfielder? Would have always referred to him as an attacking midfielder personally

Gazza was an all rounder imo. More attack minded than defensive but perfect player in a middle two. Probably himself and Shearer are the only two players im sorry we never signed.

Macca07

Anyone know if the Ryan Giggs documentary from last night will be repeated? Or has anyone a link to it online?

ITV player has it, but not allowed from an Irish location.

Leftist

Macca07 wrote: »

Anyone know if the Ryan Giggs documentary from last night will be repeated? Or has anyone a link to it online?

ITV player has it, but not allowed from an Irish location.

101 great goals

Vertigo100

Macca07 wrote: »

Anyone know if the Ryan Giggs documentary from last night will be repeated? Or has anyone a link to it online?

ITV player has it, but not allowed from an Irish location.

Zenmate for chrome. Thank me later.

ericzeking

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id take bloody Mike Phelan in charge if it meant we signed Kroos and the other 3, it would be a super summer.

I'll never be 100% convinced Moyes couldn't have turned it round especially seeing some of the subsequent player departures and the apparent replacements who were lined up.....that is not to say I'm not excited about LVG starting though.

I plan to potter through the summer taking as little notice as possible of the rumours and wallow in the excitement of the new manager the charismatic Focker that he is

ericzeking

Leftist wrote: »

good post.

united's conduct in the market for the last 10 years or so has been incompetent. Started with kenyon.

During Gill's time, people blamed the lack of funds and ferguson's disregard to the midfield requirements.

Then it was moyes choosing not to sign players. Arda Turan now claiming united choose not to sign him after a deal was close.

It could be all of those things and the status of the club working against itself.

From a fans perspective it may have been incompetent but from a business perspective it's been remarkable, outgoings kept under control while keeping the club successful has lead to the business which is what we are, being in the 'rolling in it' position we apparently find ourselves....far from incompetent if you look at it like that. The Glazers, Kenyon, Gill and Woodward are business men first and foremost.

It would have been nice to sign some more/better players over the years though...