Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In the Bundasliga, a cakewalk anyway.

If only football was that simple.

Hotblack Desiato

good tune just needs a few new lyrics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp2qcCrdBLA

NTMK

Agueroooo wrote: »

ahh here ya cant have it both ways.

in fairness this year it was a cakewalk. Dortmund were playing with a 2nd string side for most of the season.

you cant do much about the opposition but bayern winning the league isnt a huge plus, its expected.

peps rumoured situation is probably more down to pissing off Bayerns overlords who have built a team that the manager now wants to change than getting knock out of the CL

Doesn't Van Gaals teams have similar traits to Peps?

ie, dominating possession, pressing high up the pitch

Rayne Wooney

Pep's style is based off Van Gaal's but taken to the extreme on the passing front

gracehopper

Louis Van Gaal............you big dutch man.....we love you so.....la la la, la

Maybe a bit premature?

Agueroooo

Agueroooo wrote: »

ahh here ya cant have it both ways.

And why not?

Dortmund were a much weaker team this season than they were last season and they are the only team to pose even a challenge. Bundasliga was no test at all.

Munich destroyed Barca last a season with there vicious pace & width.

There tactics took a role reversal and Munich got well beaten by Real Madrid this season because Guidiola took the sting out of there attack and turned there team into a team all about Possession football. They lost what was most threatening about them last season.

bangkok

possession never wins you football matches...barca had 72% possession against munich last year over 2 legs and were hammered 7-0!!

Back on topic. Were down to 3rd on Forbes. Report up on SSN.

Think approx 1.6BN

keane2097

**** Pep and his gammy style IMO. No way I'd take being the most dominant club team in the world over an extended period if I had to agree to losing sometimes to go along with it. No way man.

Rayne Wooney

Possession needs to be used correctly, if you read what Van Gaal says about his philosophy you will see where Pep veered off and added his own mark to it with the excessive passing.

When Van Gaal talks about possession it's about circulation, to draw the opponent on and leave gaps in behind before striking. However you need a plan B when a team sets out to sit back and not be drawn towards the ball like United v Bayern and Chelsea v Pool

keane2097

keane2097 wrote: »

**** Pep and his gammy style IMO. No way I'd take being the most dominant club team in the world over an extended period if I had to agree to losing sometimes to go along with it. No way man.

Barca at the time he was in charge were awesome. Consisting of the arguably the 3 best midfielders in the world all in there prime.
Not to mention Messi.

Munich last year were setup tactically in a completely different way to best utilize there 2 best Attacking assets, Robben & Ribery.

The same system he he trying use with Munich now was the wrong option.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

redbaron_99

I think Bayern were far more effective last season, but my original point stands: Pep did not make a balls of it this season. Finishing in 7th or something like that would be a balls of a season.

NTMK

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Back on topic. Were down to 3rd on Forbes. Report up on SSN.

Think approx 1.6BN

Figures in $
1)Real 3.44
2)Barca 3.2
3)United 2.8
and Bayern are worth 1.8 (not sure of placing)

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Barca at the time he was in charge were awesome. Consisting of the arguably the 3 best midfielders in the world all in there prime.
Not to mention Messi.

Munich last year were setup tactically in a completely different way to best utilize there 2 best Attacking assets, Robben & Ribery.

The same system he he trying use with Munich now was the wrong option.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

He's only in the job a year tbf.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Barca at the time he was in charge were awesome. Consisting of the arguably the 3 best midfielders in the world all in there prime.
Not to mention Messi.

Munich last year were setup tactically in a completely different way to best utilize there 2 best Attacking assets, Robben & Ribery.

The same system he he trying use with Munich now was the wrong option.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's more like jumping to conclusions too quickly.

Agueroooo

I'm from the days when a manager was giving the time to implement his project over a couple of seasons- If it failed he got the sack. (fair enough imo)

It then moved into a manager getting a season - If he failed he got the sack.

more recently its being a manager gets half a season -If he failed he got the sack.

what are we saying now?... lose a CL game you've failed?

madness.

patmac

Interesting that if we beat Southampton away next week we will end up with the best away record in the Premiership (this would have been Liverpool if it wasn't for those pesky Palace kids), also for the first time in a long time we have a worse home record than away, I seem to recall that this happened in the late seventies early eighties before, but then I am old and this time was mainly a blur, I shall check it out later.

Backstreet Moyes

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I think Bayern were far more effective last season, but my original point stands: Pep did not make a balls of it this season. Finishing in 7th or something like that would be a balls of a season.

Moyes would have walked the league with Bayern this season.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

It's more like jumping to conclusions too quickly.

Can't see how I'm jumping to conclusions. Munich were better last season than they are this season and it's clear why.

Agueroooo

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Can't see how I'm jumping to conclusions. Munich were better last season than they are this season and it's clear why.

give me three bullet points on how and why?

Agueroooo

Agueroooo wrote: »

give me three bullet points on how and why?

My previous posts have covered my reasons. Your asking me to repeat myself so no.
3 bullet points are a requirement according to the laws of football debate?

keane2097

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Can't see how I'm jumping to conclusions. Munich were better last season than they are this season and it's clear why.

I agree, system will never work for Bayern - never.

Throw it out, waste of time, I've seen enough.

Presumably there's someone they can bring in instead to get them playing exactly like Heynckes did?

Possibly a guy he likes from a similar part of Munchengladbach who can carry on his traditions?

If I know anything, it's that when a super-successful manager leaves a club the best thing you can do is try and carry on doing the exact same thing you've always done and hope it keeps working as though the manager wasn't important and anyone can carry on his work in much the same way with no falling off in performance likely.

keane2097

keane2097 wrote: »

I agree, system will never work for Bayern - never.

Throw it out, waste of time, I've seen enough.

Presumably there's someone they can bring in instead to get them playing exactly like Heynckes did?

Possibly a guy he likes from a similar part of Munchengladbach who can carry on his traditions?

If it works next season then happy days for Munich. It didn't work this year. In the now.
Whatever about people stating that there 'from the days where managers are giving a chance' nothing got to do with my opinion, I'm stating the change of one style to another was not required for Munich when they showed utter dominance last season.

Agueroooo

M!Ck^ wrote: »

My previous posts have covered my reasons. Your asking me to repeat myself so no.
3 bullet points are a requirement according to the laws of football debate?

no but I am seeing others regurgitate others posts, but without any solid reasons as to why Guardiola is a 'failure'?

Have Bayern regressed? ...yes probably but thats to be expected with such a sea-change in style.

Bayern wanted Guardiolas style of football and it would have been obvious that it would take time considering the way they played, and the way the wanted to play.

Its way too early to be calling anyone a failure, and if the in 12 months Bayerns results in CL have not improved (which I am confident they will) then the question can start to be asked - but not when someone has already won a domestic league, and cup whilst also changing a whole philosophy in season#1

Agueroooo

Agueroooo wrote: »

no but I am seeing others regurgitate others posts, but without any solid reasons as to why Guardiola is a 'failure'?

Have Bayern regressed? ...yes probably but thats to be expected with such a sea-change in style.

Bayern wanted Guardiolas style of football and it would have been obvious that it would take time considering the way they played, and the way the wanted to play.

Its way too early to be calling anyone a failure, and if the in 12 months Bayerns results in CL have not improved (which I am confident they will) then the question can start to be asked - but not when someone has already won a domestic league, and cup whilst also changing a whole philosophy in season#1

Read above post.
Also who was cailing it a failure?
I agreed he balls it up against Madrid because of the tactics and playstyle and all my reasons are above for why I think the system hasn't worked this season. It doesn't suit the players at his disposal. Much more of a threat with witdh and pace. Its frustrating having to repeat myself continuously.
I think we should open a new thread for this :P
Isn't this the man utd thread?

Cantona's Collars

Blatter wrote: »

Not sure if this has been posted already but definitely one of my favorites.

This is better:

The_Kew_Tour

I would not mind Pep as United manager thats for sure

zerks

zerks wrote: »

This is better:

:P Nice timing.
I agree with Kew tour now.
We really do need a zerks gif.

Son Of A Vidic

redbaron_99 wrote: »

He did not make a balls of it this season. Jesus, talk about a knee jerk reaction!

How did he not make a balls of it? Are they the 2014 CL Champions? No, they are a team that was destroyed by Madrid and made a meal of beating a Moyes led United. The Bayern led by Heynckes were a powerful, dynamic and lethal outfit. This team led by Guardiola and how he has made them play, does not compare to last years team.

NTMK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would not mind Pep as United manager thats for sure

i wouldnt like him at united he'd bring success to the club but his style of play would bore me to death

hes a great manager though all the same

Cantona's Collars

Our Q3 financial results are out this day next week.I reckon with all the new sponsorship deals we are going to be seeing healthy numbers.
So much for all the naysayers and those wishing for us to go the way of Leeds etc.
With the new kit deal & Chevrolet money on the way,the club is looking in a very healthy financial position.

Headshot

Ya its looking fair healthy for the Glazers alright

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

Ya its looking fair healthy for the Glazers alright

It's frustrating....get money in take money out. As long as there's a kitty this summer.

Will I Amnt

Headshot wrote: »

Ya its looking fair healthy for the Glazers alright

They know they will have to invest heavily this time around. Simply can't afford another season like this, it would seriously hurt the "brand"
It will be a case of spend big bucks to make big bucks.

homerjay2005

zerks wrote: »

Our Q3 financial results are out this day next week.I reckon with all the new sponsorship deals we are going to be seeing healthy numbers.
So much for all the naysayers and those wishing for us to go the way of Leeds etc.
With the new kit deal & Chevrolet money on the way,the club is looking in a very healthy financial position.

this years finances will be fine, its next year there will be a problem. our projection was £420million-£420million turnover this season and this will be missed, but still up about 10-15% on last season.

the projections would have been even higher for 2014-2015 with the new shirt deal, but this will be way off target now and probably out by £30-£50million due to loss of CL revenue.

another season like this and you will see the panic buttons starting to be hit. season ticket sales will be interesting for next season also..

Agueroooo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

They know they will have to invest heavily this time around. Simply can't afford another season like this, it would seriously hurt the "brand"
It will be a case of spend big bucks to make big bucks.

very true.

Its going to take significant investment in the squad, and would you be worried that some clubs/agents might try and take you to the cleaners with asking prices etc knowing the financial position, and to bridge the gap of no CL?

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

very true.

Its going to take significant investment in the squad, and would you be worried that some clubs/agents might try and take you to the cleaners with asking prices etc knowing the financial position, and to bridge the gap of no CL?

Most clubs, mainly English, take us to the cleaners simply for being Manchester United, don't think it will change significantly in that part.

Outside of England the transfer market is far more reasonable.

NTMK

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this years finances will be fine, its next year there will be a problem. our projection was £420million-£420million turnover this season and this will be missed, but still up about 10-15% on last season.

the projections would have been even higher for 2014-2015 with the new shirt deal, but this will be way off target now and probably out by £30-£50million due to loss of CL revenue.

another season like this and you will see the panic buttons starting to be hit. season ticket sales will be interesting for next season also..

CL is offset somewhat by the chevy and PL tv deal. lack of CL will cost us about £20mill next season unless we finish top 2 iirc

not a financial disaster but still would rather the CL esp since the new tv deal starts in 2016 i think

Rayne Wooney

Award ceremony tonight when we're in 7th place is strange

Rooney or Dave obvious POTY choices

homerjay2005

NTMK wrote: »

CL is offset somewhat by the chevy and PL tv deal. lack of CL will cost us about £20mill next season unless we finish top 2 iirc

not a financial disaster but still would rather the CL esp since the new tv deal starts in 2016 i think

those deals were always included in any targets set. no matter what way you look at it, the clubs finances will be down about £30-£50million next year now to what was commited in the last financial summary and even this year i dont think it will hit the target, unless they pulled in extra revenue that was not planned.

maybe another floatation of 5% could offset the CL drop, but hard to know if they will go down that route.

dont forget, United charge an extra £5 for all CL games, then that goes up as the knockout stages goes on..an average of about £50 per ticket, add in match day revenue a CL game is turning over about £4million...we had 5 this year....this is before even the TV and sponsorship money kicks in.

of course more games = more costs and that money is not all profit, but the drop is huge and can be up to £50m on a good run like this year (which takes into account also that finishing in top 3 is also worth a considerable amount more than finishing 7th).

Al Capwned

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this years finances will be fine, its next year there will be a problem. our projection was £420million-£420million turnover this season and this will be missed, but still up about 10-15% on last season.

the projections would have been even higher for 2014-2015 with the new shirt deal, but this will be way off target now and probably out by £30-£50million due to loss of CL revenue.

another season like this and you will see the panic buttons starting to be hit. season ticket sales will be interesting for next season also..

I would think that with the impending announcement of a proven manager, season ticket sales won't drop. If Moyes had stayed on, the situation may have been different however.

Hotblack Desiato

Will I Amnt wrote: »

They know they will have to invest heavily this time around.

Actually invest? Or just leech off less than usual, or run up debts which the club is liable for?

KH25

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Award ceremony tonight when we're in 7th place is strange

Rooney or Dave obvious POTY choices

Has to be De Gea for me. Our most consistent player all season.

homerjay2005

Al Capwned wrote: »

I would think that with the impending announcement of a proven manager, season ticket sales won't drop. If Moyes had stayed on, the situation may have been different however.

from speaking to lads in recent months(and there were a few on here also), if Moyes stayed the season tickets would have dropped considerably.

added to that, if Europa League is included next season in the ACS, you can be sure that this would effect the sales also, though i think Spurs will see that this doesn't become an issue.

there is a two week window between end of season and renewal date (when practically all renewals take place)....funny how the announcement appears to be destined to be done during this period.....

Will I Amnt

ninja900 wrote: »

Actually invest? Or just leech off less than usual, or run up debts which the club is liable for?

Invest, spend, whatever you want to call it. I don't really care as long as we are getting in players and competing again.
Obviously without running the club into a load more debt.

Pyjamarama

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

How did he not make a balls of it? Are they the 2014 CL Champions? No, they are a team that was destroyed by Madrid and made a meal of beating a Moyes led United. The Bayern led by Heynckes were a powerful, dynamic and lethal outfit. This team led by Guardiola and how he has made them play, does not compare to last years team.

Are we to ignore the absolute spanking they gave the soon to be BPL champions at city?!? Making a balls of it is what moyes did... Bayern won the league!!! No team has ever retained the champions league afaik.

Mars Bar

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Award ceremony tonight when we're in 7th place is strange

Rooney or Dave obvious POTY choices

Majority of clubs are having theirs this week. Everton had theirs last night.

irishfeen

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Sure every big club in europe could think that way at different stages in history. Your basically saying its 100% certain that utd wouldve beaten chelsea in 09 final the team knocked out by barca in the semis. Then real in the 11 final the team knocked out by barca in the semis. Its a ridiculous coment utd are the biggest club in the world and if only for that pesky really good barcelona team of recent years we would have the european trophies to prove it.
As I said on here before Real and Barca are the big two. Utd are along with bayern below that level. Biggest club in england yes but apart from shirt sales/ most fickle asian fans not the biggest club in the world.

Not at all, that Barca team was incredible - the best team of our generation... Just look at Spain winning so much even without Messi ... I never said they didn't deserve to win those CL's, not at all but it was incredibly bad luck for us to peak around the exact same time - just why we have 3 European cups doesn't mean we are any less of a club then Real, Barca or anyone....

As I said earlier - there are three footballing top tier superpowers ... United with the biggest fanbase, Real with incredible spending power and Barca bringing a touch of magic to the world of football on their day. Manchester United are the Barclays Premier League outside England - the most supported league in the world... The PL chief has already said that they are watching on slightly worried that viewership of the league is down across the globe as United's form has collapsed this season - A PL without United challenging is a slightly worrying proposition for the PL itself and in fact the rest of the clubs in the league who rely on revenue generated via broadcasting deals.

Son Of A Vidic

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Are we to ignore the absolute spanking they gave the soon to be BPL champions at city?!?

A result which was as meaningless as when City beat them 3-2 in December. And is beating City the benchmark to measure them by? Or would the recent hammering by Madrid be a more suitable benchmark?

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Making a balls of it is what moyes did... Bayern won the league!!!

Yes that's right, Moyes could possibly have beaten an unimpressive Bayern team. And I wouldn't be giving them too much kudos, for winning a very poor German league this year.

Pyjamarama wrote: »

No team has ever retained the champions league afaik.

Nor have the reigning CL Champions ever been so comprehensively outclassed and hammered so hard.