Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Lord TSC

TheTownie wrote: »

31 in October. Amazing if true.

With Giggs, Rio and Vidic gone, and Evra hopefully dropping to a rotation, we'll need experienced heads on the field too. Wouldn't want to be paying loads for him, mind, but if he's under 15m, wouldn't mind at all. And at CB, he could do another 2 or 3 seasons.

TheTownie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

didn't we have the same rumours in the january, then he signed a new contract very quickly?

Ya he signed a new contract so lord knows why these rumours are here now.

Same guy reckons we've made a late bid for fab.

Gonçalo Lopes @_GoncaloLopes · 10m
The 'Cesc deal'. Just telling the info i've got! It's not a case of "nonsense". The info is this: MUFC made a late bid, that's it!

Trigger

TheTownie wrote: »

31 in October. Amazing if true.

That tweet is from January 21st ???

TheTownie

astradave wrote: »

That tweet is from January 21st ???

Whoops. My bad. Was a retweet. Didn't expect a retweet to be that old.

As you were people. :pac:

Saucy McKetchup

TheTownie wrote: »

31 in October. Amazing if true.

Seeing as he foretold it 5 months ago it would be very amazing

ElChe32

Lads were my eyes playing tricks on me this morning or were BBC saying that Shaw has made his intentions made clear and wants to join United, but Saints are waiting to appoint a new manager before this can happen? (Long day at work..too lazy to trawl back through pages..forgive me)

GSPfan

Yes they did. There you go.

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/27758163

ElChe32

GSPfan wrote: »

Yes they did. There you go.

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/27758163

Cheers pal.
Hopefully this gets done and dusted soon!

GSPfan

I'd be surprised if the Shaw deal didn't happen at this stage.

Still can't believe Arsenal are not mentioned as contenders for Fabregas. They must have their budget allocated somewhere else.

Will I Amnt

GSPfan wrote: »

They must have their budget allocated somewhere else.

If they are to only spend big on one player, you would have to imagine it would be a frontman.
Big bid for Welbeck??? :pac:

Professional Griefer

James Ducker @DuckerTheTimes

United are not in for fabregas #mufc


Sickened.

GSPfan

Will I Amnt wrote: »

If they are to only spend big on one player, you would have to imagine it would be a frontman.
Big bid for Welbeck??? :pac:

Yeah they defo will or should buy a proper centre forward but i still cant believe they'd pass on Fabregas.

They are rumoured to be after Benzema and Hulk.

I still think Fabregas could end up there though. Just seems a bit too weird.

TheTownie

Whoever in charge of Man Utd twitter must be a bit of a messer. They're after retweeting the Lopes guy's tweet about fab.

QikBax

TheTownie wrote: »

Whoever in charge of Man Utd twitter must be a bit of a messer. They're after retweeting the Lopes guy's tweet about fab.

No they didn't.

Twitter is getting the best of you this evening

TheTownie

jamc wrote: »

No they didn't.

Twitter is getting the best of you this evening

Fùck twitter handles or whatever the fùck allows those busby fellas to call themselves man utd. :pac:

ericzeking

That show about Becks in the Amazon is on BBC at moment...always comes across as such a nice fella

Manutd_4life

Really hope whoever the new boss at Southampton doesn't full on refuse to sell Luke Shaw for any price if he happens to have an awesome WC. I think we're all in need for some legit transfer announcements and not get carried away by ANY tweets from the so called reliable sources

The_Kew_Tour

even as optimistic as I am I have to admit im disappointed no signing has been made by now.

I thought there would.

Crimson King

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

even as optimistic as I am I have to admit im disappointed no signing has been made by now.

I thought there would.

No excuses for it, the whole world knows signings need to be made and Woodward talked to lvg 2 months ago so he knew his targets.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

even as optimistic as I am I have to admit im disappointed no signing has been made by now.

I thought there would.

Do you think Van Gaal wants to see the Utd squad in the flesh before making decisions?

I'd imagine most managers would operate that way

Manutd_4life

rarnes1 wrote: »

Do you think Van Gaal wants to see the Utd squad in the flesh before making decisions?

I'd imagine most managers would operate that way

Makes sense but its risky as very possibly by then, the top players will be out of our reach.

The_Kew_Tour

rarnes1 wrote: »

Do you think Van Gaal wants to see the Utd squad in the flesh before making decisions?

I'd imagine most managers would operate that way

Im sure targets are listed etc.

I think we will see some good talent come to club, but signing would have eased the nerves for many I reckon and would maybe have shown they mean business.

I still think we will be ok.

TheTownie

rarnes1 wrote: »

Do you think Van Gaal wants to see the Utd squad in the flesh before making decisions?

I'd imagine most managers would operate that way

Lisandro Lopez apparently said in A Bola newspaper that he was signed as a replacement for Garay but when Utd pulled out last summer he was sent out on loan to Getafe.

Wouldn't be surprised if something similar happen this summer when LVG arrived.

Although Shaw looks like it will still be done, surely Utd were working on other deals too.

homerjay2005

rarnes1 wrote: »

Do you think Van Gaal wants to see the Utd squad in the flesh before making decisions?

I'd imagine most managers would operate that way

werent players signed before Pellagrini, Jose and Carlo took their first trainings last summer?

Blatter

homerjay2005 wrote: »

werent players signed before Pellagrini, Jose and Carlo took their first trainings last summer?

Yes but those clubs have directors of football.

TheTownie

Blatter wrote: »

Yes but those clubs have directors of football.

Will be interesting how long it takes Utd to realise they need one.

secman

TheTownie wrote: »

Will be interesting how long it takes Utd to realise they need one.

Don't believe in them myself, in a manager's brief ,in my book. SAF didn't believe in them either. Director of Football me arse !

Quandary

Blatter wrote: »

Yes but those clubs have directors of football.

Now that Utd are moving toward a more conventional managerial setup I think we'll need a director of football too.

homerjay2005

TheTownie wrote: »

Will be interesting how long it takes Utd to realise they need one.

not a fan of them myself, a strong manager and CEO should be enough. if we need a director of football, then there one of them is not strong enough to do their job.

id like to think an discrepancies Woodward has will be sorted quickly by Van Gaal.

secman

Quandary wrote: »

Now that Utd are moving toward a more conventional managerial setup I think we'll need a director of football too.

What exactly is a "more conventional managerial set up " ? A good manager is what you need, hopefully we now have one.

TheTownie

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not a fan of them myself, a strong manager and CEO should be enough. if we need a director of football, then there one of them is not strong enough to do their job.

id like to think an discrepancies Woodward has will be sorted quickly by Van Gaal.

Utd's CEO is a banker and we will more than likely see a new manager at the helm every few years. I think there is a gap there that needs to be filled between the two that ensures smoother transitions between managers and continuity in approach to youth setup, scouting, transfer market, etc.

Quandary

secman wrote: »

What exactly is a "more conventional managerial set up " ? A good manager is what you need, hopefully we now have one.

The relationship between fergie and the club was unique and IMO no club has ever really given that level of control to a manager over such a long period of time. The amount of trust the club had in fergie was incredible and he paid them back with over 2 decades of success, allowing the club to become the juggernaut it is today. Most of us agree we probably aren't going to see something like this happen again with the way the game has gone.

We're most likely going to see the club having to change managers a lot more frequently than before. I think a director of football could help make the transitions smoother, especially when bridging the gaps between managers by handling transfer business and taking on some of the footballing matters.

Professional Griefer

So this popped up on my tweetdeck..



:pac:

Adamcp898

Wouldn't mind seeing a DoF myself, someone who has a respected background in football to help with player identification and acquisition and so long as he would have the exact same vision as the manager there shouldn't be any constant jostling for position and powers.

A different way of approaching it to the continental set up could be to appoint a manager who has a very clear definition of how the playing staff should be organised throughout a club at all ages, a way to build one for success, but who wouldn't be expected to stay for the long haul (a là LvG) and allow him to establish the groundwork needed. Then ask him to seek a DoF who would have the same vision and beliefs as himself, All so that when he would leave the club there is someone there who has a say in how the club is being continually built and what players are required to this end and who would have a say in identifying and hiring the next manager so that the same coherent vision is always being built upon.

In a perfect world this system could lead to seamless transition from one manager to the next, something we can all see the value of.

GSPfan

If we took that approach that you suggest then lets say Moyes hired a DOF with his sense of style then we'd be stuck with a DOF trying to implement an awful style of play.

I do agree we should have someone recruiting players but only on the current managers say so. I think they should be a figure head but should not be in charge of identifying players and buying them. That just spells disaster.

I'm thinking of a David Beckham type figure who can wine and dine players and agents and convince them to join United but only after the manager has told him who to go get.

homerjay2005

GSPfan wrote: »

I'm thinking of a David Beckham type figure who can wine and dine players and agents and convince them to join United but only after the manager has told him who to go get.

i honestly dont think we will need that with LVG now on board.

Adamcp898

GSPfan wrote: »

If we took that approach that you suggest then lets say Moyes hired a DOF with his sense of style then we'd be stuck with a DOF trying to implement an awful style of play.

I do agree we should have someone recruiting players but only on the current managers say so. I think they should be a figure head but should not be in charge of identifying players and buying them. That just spells disaster.

I'm thinking of a David Beckham type figure who can wine and dine players and agents and convince them to join United but only after the manager has told him who to go get.

That's why the initial appointment is the most important You hire someone attractive who has experience working with young players and make sure that if you're really planning on building something, you make certain that everyone throughout each level at the club knows what the score is and knows what they're meant to be creating and how. Once that is created properly then in many respects replacing coaching personnel is simple in that you're just trying to propagate the original premise.

It's better than, replacing a manager every few years with someone who is allowed tear up the book and make their own rules.

ElChe32

Professional Griefer wrote: »

So this popped up on my tweetdeck..



:pac:

GSPfan

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i honestly dont think we will need that with LVG now on board.

I hope so. I'll agree at the end of the current window if we actually sign someone decent.

DM_7

GSPfan wrote: »

If we took that approach that you suggest then lets say Moyes hired a DOF with his sense of style then we'd be stuck with a DOF trying to implement an awful style of play.

I do agree we should have someone recruiting players but only on the current managers say so. I think they should be a figure head but should not be in charge of identifying players and buying them. That just spells disaster.

I'm thinking of a David Beckham type figure who can wine and dine players and agents and convince them to join United but only after the manager has told him who to go get.

Can the manager not do this himself?

With transfers its a person who can convince the club to do business at the right price that is needed more than someone to convince a player. The person who should deal with clubs doesn't have to be a known football figure.

................................................................................................


When it comes to a Director of Football, different clubs have different functions for that role and at many clubs the roles we associate with that job are carried out by more than one person.

For example, Brian McClair is the head of the youth academy at United.

GSPfan

Adamcp898 wrote: »

That's why the initial appointment is the most important You hire someone attractive who has experience working with young players and make sure that if you're really planning on building something, you make certain that everyone throughout each level at the club knows what the score is and knows what they're meant to be creating and how. Once that is created properly then in many respects replacing coaching personnel is simple in that you're just trying to propagate the original premise.

It's better than, replacing a manager every few years with someone who is allowed tear up the book and make their own rules.

I dont disagree with the idea of it. I just think its riddled with difficulty. So who is to blame if the style of the first team is shoite? The manager or the DOF?

And is the DOF a former manager or coach? Is he gonna think he should be manager if the current manager isn't doing what he wants him to do?

If say Ferguson is our DOF and he suggests Moyes is the man to continue his style and it bombs big time, What do you do now cause surely LvG is ruled out cause he wont implement Fergies style. No top coach would. So who is gonna be manager?

You see what i mean. I can think of a dozen major fails with this set up.

kryogen

TheTownie wrote: »

Utd's CEO is a banker and we will more than likely see a new manager at the helm every few years. I think there is a gap there that needs to be filled between the two that ensures smoother transitions between managers and continuity in approach to youth setup, scouting, transfer market, etc.

David Gill was an accountant, same as Woodward.

GSPfan

DM-ICE wrote: »

Can the manager not do this himself?

With transfers its a person who can convince the club to do business at the right price that is needed more than someone to convince a player. The person who should deal with clubs doesn't have to be a known football figure.

................................................................................................


When it comes to a Director of Football, different clubs have different functions for that role and at many clubs the roles we associate with that job are carried out by more than one person.

For example, Brian McClair is the head of the youth academy at United.

1. Yes the manager can do that but a lot of big clubs have club legends hanging around to sell the club to players.

2. We are failing big time with a financial guy in charge of transfers so not sure your declaration is correct. This is a suggestion to try something else.

homerjay2005

kryogen wrote: »

David Gill was an accountant, same as Woodward.

David Gill however has huge respect within the game.

Pro. F

The majority of good managers are going to want to pick their own players to buy and sell. So if you're planning on hiring good managers, DOFs will cause unnecessary aggravation far too often.

I would much rather that United are slow in the odd transfer window during managerial transitions than that a DOF is appointed and causes problems for the manager all the time.

glued

TheTownie wrote: »

Utd's CEO is a banker and we will more than likely see a new manager at the helm every few years. I think there is a gap there that needs to be filled between the two that ensures smoother transitions between managers and continuity in approach to youth setup, scouting, transfer market, etc.

But the Director of Football role is largely a representation of the thoughts of the owners/president on footballing matters. Also what if the DoF leaves? Where is the continuity there?

Managers like van Gaal take control. He is best left to do what he wants with ALL football related matters of the club. Having a Director of Football now would be pretty rudderless as we have no ideology to implement. If the club believes that the philosophy of Louis van Gaal should continue post his departure then there certainly could be some argument for such a role to ensure the academy and recruitment is run in line with a particular philosophy or ideology.

But I would be against restricting ourselves to one particular ideology and becoming rigid. I believe that the manager should have total control of footballing matters. It's important to continue success through successful candidate selection and the club and Ferguson failed in this department with the appointment of Moyes.

Adamcp898

GSPfan wrote: »

I dont disagree with the idea of it. I just think its riddled with difficulty. So who is to blame if the style of the first team is shoite? The manager or the DOF?

And is the DOF a former manager or coach? Is he gonna think he should be manager if the current manager isn't doing what he wants him to do?

If say Ferguson is our DOF and he suggests Moyes is the man to continue his style and it bombs big time, What do you do now cause surely LvG is ruled out cause he wont implement Fergies style. No top coach would. So who is gonna be manager?

You see what i mean. I can think of a dozen major fails with this set up.

It's a long term set up, ideally you would hire a manager capable of constructing not just a first team but also would have knowledge of how to design a youth structure so that at all levels the purpose and pathway to how it helps the first team are clear to see. And of course one with a favourable playing style would be preferred.

The DoF should be appointed by the manager or whomever has created the playing structure of the club, they should have a respected stature in the game from a player's perspective as they will need a good grounding in the playing ideals which the club wants to create and build, and also someone whom potential signings will respect as they will have a role in identifying and acquiring them.
Their main purpose however is to facilitate continuity from one manager to the next having a major say in appointing someone who will not attempt to reconstruct what has already been built.

I don't really have time to go into major detail about the specifics of each person's role and how they would change with time and stage the club is in of its development.

Nothing is fool proof, there are many flaws which can be pointed out with any system, it's how it's implemented which ultimately decides if it's a success or not.
But I can think of much more than a dozen flaws with a system which allows each succeeding manager to rip up anything the previous one has built, and who has been appointed on the major factor being the hope they're ''the one'' and will hang around for two decades.

TheTownie

glued wrote: »

But the Director of Football role is largely a representation of the thoughts of the owners/president on footballing matters. Also what if the DoF leaves? Where is the continuity there?

Managers like van Gaal take control. He is best left to do what he wants with ALL football related matters of the club. Having a Director of Football now would be pretty rudderless as we have no ideology to implement. If the club believes that the philosophy of Louis van Gaal should continue post his departure then there certainly could be some argument for such a role to ensure the academy and recruitment is run in line with a particular philosophy or ideology.

But I would be against restricting ourselves to one particular ideology and becoming rigid. I believe that the manager should have total control of footballing matters. It's important to continue success through successful candidate selection and the club and Ferguson failed in this department with the appointment of Moyes.

You get another Dof to build upon the work done up until that point? Its rare for a Dof and manager to leave at the same time so I think it should not be a problem to maintain the philosophy and goals that are being pursued should one leave their post.

Once LVG was appointed, there was no hope of a DoF being appointed. LVG just wouldn't be having it. I agree right now you wouldn't see much tangible results from having a Dof but that is due to the longer term nature of the job. I wouldn't mind seeing one there right now to work with LVG just to get bedded into life at Man Utd but as I said that won't be happening.

Although having one now would require Utd to commit to a philosophy and direction in which they want to take the club and IMO I would like the club to be clear on what they want that to be.

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

David Gill however has huge respect within the game.

He certainly does........now.

Edit: Also, as much as we all enjoy the hourly Woody bashing, lets not kid ourselves that the guy is not respected in any circles that actually matter.

sigmundv

homerjay2005 wrote: »

David Gill however has huge respect within the game.

kryogen wrote: »

He certainly does........now.

Exactly. I don't know for sure what the respect for Gill was like after 12 months, but I can imagine it was a lot less than it is now.