Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

KH25

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Don't agree with that at all.

De Gea
Rafael Evans Smalling Jones Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Mata
Rooney Rvp

Sorry, I meant 3/5/2. Our defence isn't solid enough for that IMO.

MagicIRL

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Don't agree with that at all.

De Gea
Rafael Evans Smalling Jones Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Mata
Rooney Rvp

De Gea
Rafael Evans Hummels Jones Shaw
Strootman Fellaini
Mata
Rooney Rvp

Can't see us not signing a few players tbh.

Lucas Hood

KH25 wrote: »

Sorry, I meant 3/5/2. Our defence isn't solid enough for that IMO.

352/532 are essentially the same thing . You've generally got 3 at the back when in possession but when you lose it your wingbacks drop further back to make a 5.

duffman13

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Don't agree with that at all.

De Gea
Rafael Evans Smalling Jones Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Mata
Rooney Rvp

I think we have the players to use it aswell. I don't think it's the best system for us or the league however. I think LVG switched to this system solely because of Strootmans injury. Strootman naturally dropped in as an extra defender when the Dutch don't have the ball hence the switch now to a back 3/5

Lucas Hood

MagicIRL wrote: »

De Gea
Rafael Evans Hummels Jones Shaw
Strootman Fellaini
Mata
Rooney Rvp

Can't see us not signing a few players tbh.

He said we didn't have the players to use the system I just showed we did.

Mitch Connor

KH25 wrote: »

Sorry, I meant 3/5/2. Our defence isn't solid enough for that IMO.

Both formations are basically the same from LVGs point of view, it is just the positioning of the wing backs whether defending or attacking that changes what you might want to call the fomation.

Similarly, his 433 and 343 formations can be the same in terms of players, with a defender pushing into midfield if the pattern of the game needs/allows it.

MagicIRL

Lucas Hood wrote: »

He said we didn't have the players to use the system I just showed we did.

Reckon signing players would still use that position or move to something else?

duffman13

MagicIRL wrote: »

De Gea
Rafael Evans Hummels Jones Shaw
Strootman Fellaini
Mata
Rooney Rvp

Can't see us not signing a few players tbh.

If we sign Strootman we won't play that system. I would however be delighted if we signed those three players.

Spazdarn

duffman13 wrote: »

If we sign Strootman we won't play that system. I would however be delighted if we signed those three players.

Hummels and Strootman are by no means certain to want to come to United...

MagicIRL

“What do we need to do? They are the number one team in the rankings and we are number 15, so it is very important we play a compact game when the opponent has the ball and when we have possession we have to skip stations. But it won’t be easy because of the resistance of the Spanish team,’ said Van Gaal, who defended the approach taken by his predecessor Bert Van Marwijk in the 2010 decider.

“I believe that physical resistance is part and parcel of football, part of the profession. There is a referee who will point out what the limits are. The team four years ago didn’t cross the line,’ said Van Gaal.

“I think the physical struggle is part of football, part of sport, and if you watch our training you can see it for yourself.”

This afternoon could be more a tactical struggle than a physical one, and Spain look equipped to come out on top by the narrowest of margins.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/holland-netherlands-preview-world-cup-1514676-Jun2014/

Look for some bite in United next season!

Iseedeadpixels

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No.

They played 433 through qualification I believe, and are switching to 352/532 now, due to the injury to strootman mainly - so if it shows anything it shows LVG plays to what he percieves as the strength of the players at his disposal rather than a set formation the players have to bend to.

From reading interviews with him, he subscribes to a way of playing football and terms of tempo and pressing, but the formation itself is fluid.

I would like to see 433 myself for us I think we have the players for it and with some (hopefully) decent transfers we could be a very attractive team to watch.

Mitch Connor

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

So what formation can you see us playing 433 or 352/532?

No idea to be honest.

At AZ he played 442 because the makeup and talents of the squad fitted it, he has played 433, 343, 352 etc elsewhere. As said, his formation is dictated by the players - so until we see who (if fecking anyone) we sign and sell over the remaining weeks of the window, i find it impossible to guess what the formation will be.

My guess is that he will be aiming at the 433/343 formation.

duffman13

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Hummels and Strootman are by no means certain to want to come to United...

True but the funny thing is with the reports of LVG apparently liking Carrick I would say he is thinking he can get Carrick to do a similar role and drop in to CB when we don't have the ball. That's if he is going to deploy that system.

Hummels, again he is the ideal choice but I do feel we will sign a CB regardless if it's Hummels or someone else.

duffman13

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No idea to be honest.

At AZ he played 442 because the makeup and talents of the squad fitted it, he has played 433, 343, 352 etc elsewhere. As said, his formation is dictated by the players - so until we see who (if fecking anyone) we sign and sell over the remaining weeks of the window, i find it impossible to guess what the formation will be.

My guess is that he will be aiming at the 433/343 formation.

+1 on this. He will see what he has rather deciding on a system and shoe horning players into it. By the looks of the current squad it could be 433 or 442 but no way of telling till August and seeing our squad then.

beno619

Not really sure about the fapping over Rakitic last night. I though Modric was the best player on the park, he's grown in stature since moving to Madrid. Its a shame we didnt go for him when he was still at Spurs, Levy would have milked us no doubt though.

MagicIRL

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Hummels and Strootman are by no means certain to want to come to United...

I reckon Strootman is very likely just purely because of the LvG factor. Reading Pirlo's book lately and he says the exact same thing about him almost signing for Chelsea purely because Ancelotti was in charge.

KH25

duffman13 wrote: »

+1 on this. He will see what he has rather deciding on a system and shoe horning players into it. By the looks of the current squad it could be 433 or 442 but no way of telling till August and seeing our squad then.

I think 4-3-3 is the way to go. Against the bigger teams I think a 2 man midfield can be overwhelmed.

Spazdarn

MagicIRL wrote: »

I reckon Strootman is very likely just purely because of the LvG factor. Reading Pirlo's book lately and he says the exact same thing about him almost signing for Chelsea purely because Ancelotti was in charge.

It's very frustrating seeing how Chelsea have gone opposed for 2 world class players at a relatively cheap price (in this market anyway).

If LVG knows who he wanted why wasn't approaches made before the WC before the prices rise even higher...

bullvine

ToiletFusion wrote: »

It's very frustrating seeing how Chelsea have gone opposed for 2 world class players at a relatively cheap price (in this market anyway).

If LVG knows who he wanted why wasn't approaches made before the WC before the prices rise even higher...

Maybe the deals are done, waiting till after WC to announce them.

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Maybe the deals are done, waiting till after WC to announce them.

Yeah, maybe they are.
I'd be absolutely shocked if that were the case but maybe there is a slight small teeny tiny chance of it yeah.

bullvine

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah, maybe they are.
I'd be absolutely shocked if that were the case but maybe there is a slight small teeny tiny chance of it yeah.

We can only hope that's the case, cause otherwise it will be a fricken disaster again!

Zico

bullvine wrote: »

Maybe the deals are done, waiting till after WC to announce them.

That's the 2nd time I've heard that nonsense.

Where is this bull**** coming from?

MagicIRL

I expect a few lads on that Dutch team to sign for United over the course of LvG's first season. Players he knows, who know his syetm and will help implement it at United.

Bruno Martin Indi, for example, currently at Feyenord. Young LB (can also play CB) playing under LvG, or Stefan de Vrij another young CB again used to LvG and his system.

Iseedeadpixels

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No idea to be honest.

At AZ he played 442 because the makeup and talents of the squad fitted it, he has played 433, 343, 352 etc elsewhere. As said, his formation is dictated by the players - so until we see who (if fecking anyone) we sign and sell over the remaining weeks of the window, i find it impossible to guess what the formation will be.

My guess is that he will be aiming at the 433/343 formation.

Quoted me and replied before my sneaky edit that's quick and impressive! :pac:

Have we been linked with any non WC players?

bullvine

Zico wrote: »

That's the 2nd time I've heard that nonsense.

Where is this bull**** coming from?

Why is it nonsense? How do we know whats going on at the club? All we can do is wait and see what happens.

Crimson King

bullvine wrote: »

Maybe the deals are done, waiting till after WC to announce them.

I held fast to this notion all last Summer believing that every man and his dog knew the issues in midfield we had and surely the club were working on the known problems. I started to get worried midday on the last day of the transfer window when it became clearer to me that the club hadn't a fcuking clue what it was doing and then, like now I squarely blame Woodward for this.

Maybe they learnt their lessons from last year. However I would be shocked if they did.

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Why is it nonsense? How do we know whats going on at the club? All we can do is wait and see what happens.

why would United not want to announce they can actually conclude a deal?
why would the player want to keep it a secret?

ericzeking

Zico wrote: »

That's the 2nd time I've heard that nonsense.

Where is this bull**** coming from?

Because lots of stuff happens in the background...announcing the confirmed fee and signature is the last thing that happens. Just because United aren't posting every feckin bid or negotiation they have on Red Cafe or Boards.ie or their own website or briefing all these so called 'respected journalists' does not mean they are not sounding out, negotiating with or tapping up players....

Jaysus last summer we were 'an embarrassment' because everything was done in the public eye..this year it's the opposite yet a significant percentage of the fans still aren't happy.

Lord TSC

ToiletFusion wrote: »

It's very frustrating seeing how Chelsea have gone opposed for 2 world class players at a relatively cheap price (in this market anyway).

If LVG knows who he wanted why wasn't approaches made before the WC before the prices rise even higher...

Am I the only one who finds it suspicious that, by most accounts, no one but Chelsea wanted him? fab admitted Arsenal turned down the chance to sign him, we said we weren't interested, neither City nor Liverpool made moves for him. The talk was even Jose was weary but he didn't have much say in the deal. Why is it this world class player wasn't subject to a massive bidding war (at least according to the journalists)?

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

Because lots of stuff happens in the background...announcing the confirmed fee and signature is the last thing that happens. Just because United aren't posting every feckin bid or negotiation they have on Red Cafe or Boards.ie or their own website or briefing all these so called 'respected journalists' does not mean they are not sounding out, negotiating with or tapping up players....

Jaysus last summer we were 'an embarrassment' because everything was done in the public eye..this year it's the opposite yet a significant percentage of the fans still aren't happy.

Well done for getting pissy over a different argument no one was engaging in.

The statement was that United could have deals done and just waiting for the WC to end to announce them - not that United are probably working on some deals in the background.

Zico

bullvine wrote: »

Why is it nonsense? How do we know whats going on at the club? All we can do is wait and see what happens.

I usually find past experience is a good indicator of what to expect in future.

Last summer Woodward couldn't buy a sandwich without holding a press conference so if he's signed someone we'd know about it.

Maybe a club chief exec. who was secure in his job at a club meeting the expectations of it's fans could afford to sit on news of a new signing for a month, but Woodward definitely does not have that luxury.

bullvine

Mitch Connor wrote: »

why would United not want to announce they can actually conclude a deal?
why would the player want to keep it a secret?

Maybe some are part of the Dutch Squad and LVG doesn't want any attention!

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Maybe some are part of the Dutch Squad and LVG doesn't want any attention!

So its better to have speculation surrounding the players?

bullvine

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So its better to have speculation surrounding the players?

There's been practically zero speculation regarding any of the dutch players except Strootman. Who knows whats really going on. We come back in at the end of July and nobody has signed, then it will be time to panic.

Will I Amnt

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So its better to have speculation surrounding the players?

I would say yes, by a long shot. Speculation is going to happen anyway, bellends from Sky Sports News hanging around your hotel and hounding you every time you put your head out the door is a different matter.

Cookiemunster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So its better to have speculation surrounding the players?

The only speculation is here and in the papers. The actual players will know exactly whats happening so it won't be affecting them.

Mitch Connor

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The only speculation is here and in the papers. The actual players will know exactly whats happening so it won't be affecting them.

indeed - so if a deal is done, why not just announce it. If speculation doesn't matter then why would attention over a completed transfer make a difference?

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well done for getting pissy over a different argument no one was engaging in.

The statement was that United could have deals done and just waiting for the WC to end to announce them - not that United are probably working on some deals in the background.

I'm not "pissy"-whatever that means- at all, have a read back over some of your own postings to see who is the one who is "pissy" about the transfer situation.

So lets get it right....you agree that work is being done in the background, but you think that any announcements should be made asap...you're not happy with the work being in the process of being done you want it finished with and announced, and if it's all but done you still want it announced by PM if possible....something along those lines?

There are all manner of reasons why it wouldn't be announced or confirmed-it doesn't mean they are not going to happen. i's to be dotted, t's to be crossed....Shaw, for example, may have to convince his bird to skip college for a year for all we know (watch and wait for someone to jump on that tongue and cheek statement), you're dealing with human beings here.....but the most pertinent reason I think is that 99 focking percent of transfers haven't happened yet, a couple of teams have done a few deals but the majority haven't. We're not in pre-season training, there is no manager in situ at the club at this minute, there is no pressing need for anything to be fully completed and announced, apart from apeasing fans, that is the one and only reason why something would need to be announced and that's not a good enough reason imo.

Some will say the player/club will want to avoid unneccessary speculation and uncertainty but if all parties are 99% agreed then there is no problem.

Zico

ericzeking wrote: »

Jaysus last summer we were 'an embarrassment' because everything was done in the public eye..this year it's the opposite yet a significant percentage of the fans still aren't happy.

I agree it's better that negotiations are done discreetly, I'm sure we were in for Fabregas but Chelsea was just a better offer.

In the space of a year we've bought a player Chelsea didn't want for a club record and they've got the player we really wanted for the price we paid for a last resort alternative.

You can't be happy about that surely?

glued

Mitch Connor wrote: »

indeed - so if a deal is done, why not just announce it. If speculation doesn't matter then why would attention over a completed transfer make a difference?

I wouldn't say that there are any deals done but I would say that a lot of negotiations have gone on over the past few weeks. Van Gaal may have given Woodward a 'list' of transfer targets but van Gaal isn't the sort of manager that signs a player without sitting down and talking to them. He seems like he needs deeply intelligent footballers. There is a very high chance that the Netherlands may get knocked out at the group stages and if van Gaal is seen to be signing players before the World Cup then he's leaving himself open for criticism on his priorities.

Could you imagine the shít storm if van Gaal signs a couple of Dutch players before or during the World Cup? Van Gaal is a professional and he's not going to want to have any distractions going on during the World Cup.

Maximus Alexander

Zico wrote: »

In the space of a year we've bought a player Chelsea didn't want for a club record and they've got the player we really wanted for the price we paid for a last resort alternative.

Do you not think that's an odd way to look at it though? If you put it that way, then Chelsea just bought a player Barcelona didn't want. What's worse is that if rumours are to be believed, he's a player Chelsea's manager didn't want either.

ericzeking

Zico wrote: »

I agree it's better that negotiations are done discreetly, I'm sure we were in for Fabregas but Chelsea was just a better offer.

In the space of a year we've bought a player Chelsea didn't want for a club record and they've got the player we really wanted for the price we paid for a last resort alternative.

You can't be happy about that surely?

I would have loved Fabregas...so would David Moyes, but maybe LVG just didn't want him quite that much and has other plans...I'm happy to stick by our managers judgement, he's knows more about it than me.

I think London was also a critical factor in a Fabregas deal though.

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

I'm not "pissy"-whatever that means- at all, have a read back over some of your own postings to see who is the one who is "pissy" about the transfer situation.

So lets get it right....you agree that work is being done in the background, but you think that any announcements should be made asap...you're not happy with the work being in the process of being done you want it finished with and announced, and if it's all but done you still want it announced by PM if possible....something along those lines?

There are all manner of reasons why it wouldn't be announced or confirmed-it doesn't mean they are not going to happen. i's to be dotted, t's to be crossed....Shaw, for example, may have to convince his bird to skip college for a year for all we know (watch and wait for someone to jump on that tongue and cheek statement), you're dealing with human beings here.....but the most pertinent reason I think is that 99 focking percent of transfers haven't happened yet, a couple of teams have done a few deals but the majority haven't. We're not in pre-season training, there is no manager in situ at the club at this minute, there is no pressing need for anything to be fully completed and announced, apart from apeasing fans, that is the one and only reason why something would need to be announced and that's not a good enough reason imo.

Some will say the player/club will want to avoid unneccessary speculation and uncertainty but if all parties are 99% agreed then there is no problem.

No, I'm saying your argument to which I first replied was based on someone saying 'How do you know we aren't working on deals in the background and they just need to be finalised when the player is available post world cup", when the actual comment was 'How do you know the deals aren't done and we are just waiting to announce them'. Two different arguments.

As for whether I agree United are working on stuff in the background... depends on what you are happy with.

I think we have agreed everything with Shaw, but are finding it very hard to agree with Southampton.

Apart from that, I do not believe United are close to signing a single player. Not schweinsteiger, not hummels, not strootman or any other dutch player. We may be looking at players and weighing up some bids, but I do not believe we are in advanced talks with any player or club apart from Shaw/Southampton - and THAT is what I am pissed about. United need to do a lot of work this summer, and it is starting as badly as last summer did, and the same person responsible, imo, for last summer is in charge of the deals for this summer too.

bullvine

I hope you're wrong Mitch because if its as bad as last summer, I don't think most of us could take it.

Zico

Not signing Shaw before the WC is yet more incompetence by Woodward.

If he never gets on the pitch, he still won't be any cheaper after the WC.

But suppose Shaw plays brilliantly at the WC. Whatever negotiations that were going on before the WC will have been for nothing because his price goes up, his wage demands go up and inevitably other clubs like Chelsea with bigger wage budgets can gazump the deal.

It's like the Fellaini deal all over again.

Maximus Alexander

I don't even know whose side I'm on in this argument. I've been willing myself so heavily not to think about the transfer window that I actually have no opinion. It's working!

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't even know whose side I'm on in this argument. I've been willing myself so heavily not to think about the transfer window that I actually have no opinion. It's working!

Neither do I.....

Lord TSC

Zico wrote: »

Not signing Shaw before the WC is yet more incompetence by Woodward.

If he never gets on the pitch, he still won't be any cheaper after the WC.

But suppose Shaw plays brilliantly at the WC. Whatever negotiations that were going on before the WC will have been for nothing because his price goes up, his wage demands go up and inevitably other clubs like Chelsea with bigger wage budgets can gazump the deal.

It's like the Fellaini deal all over again.

The joy of this though is it completely ignores the fact it could be Southampton sticking their feet down and saying "No, not till after the WC and not till we have a new manager".

So what does Woodward do? Overpay now so we don't overpay after the WC? Then everyone will be moaning we overpaid on him anyway.

Southampton are in a solid position of not having to sell, and the only way to change that would have been to put in a stupid offer now, and that still would have had people crying foul...

2moreMinutes

I don't get why the ITK's on here don't just fire their sources a message on Viber to see what the story is. Their blood pressure would be the better for knowing.

glued

10k