Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

PhlegmyMoses

slingerz wrote: »

Pretty sure Cole was a transfer record at the time

That's my point. He was a hit and was a bigger spend than Fellaini in today's terms.

homerjay2005

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Michu & Bony are hardly in the same in bracket one cost 2m ,the other 12m.

£12m for 24 goals is excellent value imo.

For every Van Persie there's a Veron or Downing.

Spending big money on a player doesn't always work.

All signings carry some risk tbf.

PhlegmyMoses

rarnes1 wrote: »

For every Van Persie there's a Veron or Downing.

Spending big money on a player doesn't always work.

All signings carry some risk tbf.

This isn't correct. The ratio is far more in favour of hit than miss at that level.

You get some flops but it is not on the same level.

homerjay2005

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This isn't correct. The ratio is far more in favour of hit than miss at that level.

You get some flops but it is not on the same level.

hmmm dunno, id say more big money players (superstars like RVP, Silva, Aguero are exceptions) flop than are a success or at least its 50-50. look at United - Berba, Fellaini (so far), Veron all are contributed well below their value, Rio and Rooney massive successes of course.

would be interesting to look at the last 20 players to be signed for over 18 million in the PL and rank them hit or miss.

look at Norwich, massive money on RVW and he scored what, one goal? contrast that to Bony and what he did for Swansea. its highly possible that Norwich would have survived if the signed a striker like Bony and maybe Swansea would have went down.

Lord TSC

Funny enough, I think the topic at hand (namely: value on the transfer market, wanting to add 4-5 new first team players) might be in the context of Liverpool right now but applies hugely to what we're facing too this summer.

Shaw is a nice start though.

Anyway, was going to do this myself but noticed someone else already had on Reddit. Makes it pretty clear what we need to do next season to get back into things...not lose all but one six-point games :P

Will I Amnt

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This isn't correct. The ratio is far more in favour of hit than miss at that level.

You get some flops but it is not on the same level.

Big money flops at United pale into insignificance when compared to the big money hits. I'd rather take my chances with a big name than take a risk on a few relatively unknown players.

beno619

Berba wasnt a flop, he contributed to as least 2 title victory's and scored that hattrick :pac:

His time wasnt a resounding success but calling him a flop is clutching at straws .

TheDoc

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This isn't correct. The ratio is far more in favour of hit than miss at that level.

You get some flops but it is not on the same level.

What do you mean? I think he has a point when he says every transfer comes with risk, even at a high level of spending.

The list is endless, no transfer is risk free, or obviously going to work out. I think it's silly to think otherwise.

Yaya was damaged goods a lot of people didn't want. Schevchenko (omg spellcheck) was a massive disappointment, no one forsaw the surgey would ruin Torres never to recover, Kezman was electric in Erdvise and was poison here.

Djibril Cisse was a monster in France and was hit and miss here. Kuyt was a dominating striker that turned into a grafting mediocre winger.

Have to say Ricky Van WolfPenis has been a massive disappointment, granted more due to the inept service he gets at ~Norwich, but he's near damaged goods now. Gary Hooper was a proven goalscorer in Scotland and sits mostly on the bench.

Even looking at our "potential" targets. Nothing is a certainty.

While you assume serious groundwork is done to ensure the player coming in will fit the system, and adapt well to the club and it's mindset etc., nothing can be for certain. When you take a player from a small club into a big club, no homework will tell you the player will develop an ego and slack off ( Zaha), nothing will tell you the player is simply incapable of further developement ( Miller) and nothing will tell you the player at home leads a terrible lifestyle and doesn't take recovery seriously (Anderson).

Nothings a sure fire bet. We got a good year from RVP last season, this year back to his old ways of injury stricken. Everyone thought that the transfer was epic business with no risk, but there of course was risk.

Not only did we take in a star striker who has recessed into injury prone spells, but that transfer scuppered a more detailed plan deploying Kagawa behind Rooney. No we have a Kagawa in no mans land, has never settled, and rarely being given the run of games to play where he was signed to play. That was a risk, all coupled from the one transfer, that Kagawa wouldn't settle into the squad, and that's more then come to pass.

Have to say I saw his withdrawal yesterday and felt thats the last I'll see him which is a pity. Smacks of Berbatov MKII, a beautiful player we all love, but hate seeing being used incorrectly.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This isn't correct. The ratio is far more in favour of hit than miss at that level.

You get some flops but it is not on the same level.

Well it shouldn't be on the same level as the money is much bigger.

If you buy 3 10m players and 2 are flops it's 20m wasted.

If you buy 3 30m players and 1 is a flop it's 30m wasted.

Schwiiing

beno619 wrote: »

Berba wasnt a flop, he contributed to as least 2 title victory's and scored that hattrick :pac:

His time wasnt a resounding success but calling him a flop is clutching at straws .

Top league goalscorer in a title winning season aswell. If he was used in a similar system to vNistelrooy he would have tore up the league but he like Tevez suffered in the rise of Ronaldo.

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

Well it shouldn't be on the same level as the money is much bigger.

If you buy 3 10m players and 2 are flops it's 20m wasted.

If you buy 3 30m players and 1 is a flop it's 30m wasted.

Scenario 1 - You have a 10m rated player playing at his peak

Scenario 2 - You have 2 30m players playing at their peak and another possibly playing at the level of the 10m rated player in the other team.

It's all relevant. I know which scenario I'd take for a 10m hit.

PhlegmyMoses

TheDoc wrote: »

What do you mean? I think he has a point when he says every transfer comes with risk, even at a high level of spending.

The list is endless, no transfer is risk free, or obviously going to work out. I think it's silly to think otherwise.

Yaya was damaged goods a lot of people didn't want. Schevchenko (omg spellcheck) was a massive disappointment, no one forsaw the surgey would ruin Torres never to recover, Kezman was electric in Erdvise and was poison here.

Djibril Cisse was a monster in France and was hit and miss here. Kuyt was a dominating striker that turned into a grafting mediocre winger.

Have to say Ricky Van WolfPenis has been a massive disappointment, granted more due to the inept service he gets at ~Norwich, but he's near damaged goods now. Gary Hooper was a proven goalscorer in Scotland and sits mostly on the bench.

Even looking at our "potential" targets. Nothing is a certainty.

While you assume serious groundwork is done to ensure the player coming in will fit the system, and adapt well to the club and it's mindset etc., nothing can be for certain. When you take a player from a small club into a big club, no homework will tell you the player will develop an ego and slack off ( Zaha), nothing will tell you the player is simply incapable of further developement ( Miller) and nothing will tell you the player at home leads a terrible lifestyle and doesn't take recovery seriously (Anderson).

Nothings a sure fire bet. We got a good year from RVP last season, this year back to his old ways of injury stricken. Everyone thought that the transfer was epic business with no risk, but there of course was risk.

Not only did we take in a star striker who has recessed into injury prone spells, but that transfer scuppered a more detailed plan deploying Kagawa behind Rooney. No we have a Kagawa in no mans land, has never settled, and rarely being given the run of games to play where he was signed to play. That was a risk, all coupled from the one transfer, that Kagawa wouldn't settle into the squad, and that's more then come to pass.

Have to say I saw his withdrawal yesterday and felt thats the last I'll see him which is a pity. Smacks of Berbatov MKII, a beautiful player we all love, but hate seeing being used incorrectly.

I think you've missed my point. I'm talking about monster signings.

Again, take United (Prices are relative):

Miss:
Veron
Anderson
Berba

Hits:
Keane
Cole
Stam
RVN
Rooney
Rio
RVP

Hargreaves was a miss but not because of ability, which is the point of the excercise. United are a better example than City and Chelsea as they were buying to consolidate success. Many of the petroclubs' signings were loss leader big names to entice other players and increase recognition.

TheDoc

I don't see how Berba can be classed as a miss yet RVP a hit.

If RVP fails to capture his form on signing, and form from this season continues he could well constitute a flop going by that grading.

It's not Berbatovs fault Ferguson changed his vision for the team, to something Berbatov couldn't fit into.

It's not his fault Ferguson thought he could play the 10 role with Rooney the striker, when it should always have been the other way round.

keane2097

There seems to be some sort of reverso hipster anti-English-player sentiment thing creeping in here a bit lately.

Let's call a spade a spade, whatever about hype and potential transfer fees, Barkley and particularly Lallana have been class this season.

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't see how Berba can be classed as a miss yet RVP a hit.

If RVP fails to capture his form on signing, and form from this season continues he could well constitute a flop going by that grading.

It's not Berbatovs fault Ferguson changed his vision for the team, to something Berbatov couldn't fit into.

It's not his fault Ferguson thought he could play the 10 role with Rooney the striker, when it should always have been the other way round.

Was just about to type same....Berbas real good season is very much comparable to RVPs season last year

TheDoc

keane2097 wrote: »

There seems to be some sort of reverso hipster anti-English-player sentiment thing creeping in here a bit lately.

Let's call a spade a spade, whatever about hype and potential transfer fees, Barkley and particularly Lallana have been class this season.

Don't think anyone disputing that, but when you consider they have emulated the form of plenty of English players which have come before them, it's always a worry that maybe they might not turn out to be world class stars.

If I'm not outragously mistaken, Young hit some numbers with Villa that dwarf Lallana's 8 goals and like 5 assists. And look how he turned out.

James Milner was being touted as potentially being converted into a dynamic, technically gifted CM.

I don't think anyone is doubting their season, I think maybe being weary of what may or may not come ahead, which I think is fair enough when you consider how easy the UK rpess get carried away.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

Was just about to type same....Berbas real good season is very much comparable to RVPs season last year

I have a tendancy to "mixmash" seasons into the one memory.

Am I right in saying the season Berbatov finished like joint goalscorer with Drogba, he was dropped for a fair few games in the run in, as Ferguson preferenced Chico alongside Rooney for a "high tempo, pacey" front line, to tackle Barca at Wembley?

Or am I putting two seasons into the one memory again

shadowcomplex

If evra and Buttner go we will need 2 left backs , anyone else think alonso at Sunderland would be a good signing as competition for shaw ?

Schwiiing

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If evra and Buttner go we will need 2 left backs , anyone else think alonso at Sunderland would be a good signing as competition for shaw ?

I'd go for Coentrao if he was still available.

Backstreet Moyes

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If evra and Buttner go we will need 2 left backs , anyone else think alonso at Sunderland would be a good signing as competition for shaw ?

Why would Buttner go and we need to get Shaw first.

tallaghtmick

Even with injuries this season RVP has been good

12/13 : 48 Games 30 Goals
13/14 : 28 Games 18 Goals

You cant compare him to Berbatov

08/09 : 43 Games 14 Goals
09/10 : 43 Games 12 Goals
10/11 : 42 Games 21 Goals
11/12 : 21 Games 9 Goals

Shocking return for a 28 million player, he is (imo) a flop but his fans on here are blinded by the image that he's some cool as **** fella.

keane2097

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't think anyone disputing that, but when you consider they have emulated the form of plenty of English players which have come before them, it's always a worry that maybe they might not turn out to be world class stars.

If I'm not outragously mistaken, Young hit some numbers with Villa that dwarf Lallana's 8 goals and like 5 assists. And look how he turned out.

James Milner was being touted as potentially being converted into a dynamic, technically gifted CM.

I don't think anyone is doubting their season, I think maybe being weary of what may or may not come ahead, which I think is fair enough when you consider how easy the UK rpess get carried away.

Comparing Ashley Young and Lallana on a goals/assists stats sort of thing is weird, they're very, very different sorts of players.

Milner is a super player whose development has stagnated by moving to a team where he can't get a game in the middle because of Yaya Toure.

I think people complaining about the UK press getting carried away are inclined to get reverso carried away to the same extent and more a lot of the time.

We had a genuine Bale vs Nani debate in here last year where people were trying to convince me the only reason I thought there was a difference between the two was because some newspapers that I don't read were saying so. Presumably Real Madrid were reading the same papers.

redbaron_99

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Even with injuries this season RVP has been good

12/13 : 48 Games 30 Goals
13/14 : 28 Games 18 Goals

You cant compare him to Berbatov

08/09 : 43 Games 14 Goals
09/10 : 43 Games 12 Goals
10/11 : 42 Games 21 Goals
11/12 : 21 Games 9 Goals

Shocking return for a 28 million player, he is (imo) a flop but his fans on here are blinded by the image that he's some cool as **** fella.

He is cool as ****

redbaron_99

I suppose you can never real tell how a player will do. There's always a doubt, no matter what the price and reputation.

By the by, was looking at the transfer business Simeone has done since his arrival at Athletico. It's astounding!

TheDoc

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Even with injuries this season RVP has been good

12/13 : 48 Games 30 Goals
13/14 : 28 Games 18 Goals

You cant compare him to Berbatov

08/09 : 43 Games 14 Goals
09/10 : 43 Games 12 Goals
10/11 : 42 Games 21 Goals
11/12 : 21 Games 9 Goals

Shocking return for a 28 million player, he is (imo) a flop but his fans on here are blinded by the image that he's some cool as **** fella.

Don't think anyone is blinded, I know I'm not. I appreciate his limitations as a player, but his strengths was something we only played to once, and he bagged 20 goals.

He operated behind Rooney if memory serves most of the time, as well as being rotated a fierce amount. Always felt we never used him properly and he got unfairly critised for it.

In the team this season where it's being slow patient buildup in the final third, he's the sort of player that youd want, clever movement and intricate passing. Was said by someone else here but little interchanges with Mata, Kagawa and Berbatov would be excellent.

Playing really well for Monaco at the moment in a side that is playing to his strengths.

TheDoc

keane2097 wrote: »

Comparing Ashley Young and Lallana on a goals/assists stats sort of thing is weird, they're very, very different sorts of players.

Milner is a super player whose development has stagnated by moving to a team where he can't get a game in the middle because of Yaya Toure.

I think people complaining about the UK press getting carried away are inclined to get reverso carried away to the same extent and more a lot of the time.

We had a genuine Bale vs Nani debate in here last year where people were trying to convince me the only reason I thought there was a difference between the two was because some newspapers that I don't read were saying so. Presumably Real Madrid were reading the same papers.

Why is the comparison odd?

I'm always open to correct as I said above my memory can sometimes be muddied, but Lallana has to my knowledge only moved into a more central position this year. He was typically operating from the left wing or wide in a left trio, similar to Young in his younger days at Villa operating form the left cutting inside.

My point about Milner is that he was seen, thought and attempted to be converted into a CM. He was always a winger, thoughts of him being a CM were ridiculous and seeing a technical player, crying out for him to be played through the middle. He has a wonderful cross, tremendous engine and carries out great defensive duties aswell as good place and a trick or too.

He's recaptured a bit of that form that saw him rocket with Leeds, but only after ditching that feeble attempt at playing CM, which stunted his development, nothing to do with Toure.

My point is that there is an air of caution around Lallana and Barkley which I believe is merited considering typically how England seem to hype their players beyond belief. Barkley however looks to be an outragous talent, and I'd hope he continues on in that vain of developement.

I love watching big, strong players power their way through teams leaving opponents for dust.

tallaghtmick

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't think anyone is blinded, I know I'm not. I appreciate his limitations as a player, but his strengths was something we only played to once, and he bagged 20 goals.

He operated behind Rooney if memory serves most of the time, as well as being rotated a fierce amount. Always felt we never used him properly and he got unfairly critised for it.

In the team this season where it's being slow patient buildup in the final third, he's the sort of player that youd want, clever movement and intricate passing. Was said by someone else here but little interchanges with Mata, Kagawa and Berbatov would be excellent.

Playing really well for Monaco at the moment in a side that is playing to his strengths.

28 million or in around that 4 seasons and scores less than 60 goals, we signed him to be a goalscorer like he was at spurs, not good enough in my eyes.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

My point about Milner is that he was seen, thought and attempted to be converted into a CM. He was always a winger, thoughts of him being a CM were ridiculous and seeing a technical player, crying out for him to be played through the middle. He has a wonderful cross, tremendous engine and carries out great defensive duties aswell as good place and a trick or too.

I though he was great in the middle for Villa, was hoping we would sign him to play there.

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't think anyone is blinded, I know I'm not. I appreciate his limitations as a player, but his strengths was something we only played to once, and he bagged 20 goals.

He operated behind Rooney if memory serves most of the time, as well as being rotated a fierce amount. Always felt we never used him properly and he got unfairly critised for it.

In the team this season where it's being slow patient buildup in the final third, he's the sort of player that youd want, clever movement and intricate passing. Was said by someone else here but little interchanges with Mata, Kagawa and Berbatov would be excellent.

Playing really well for Monaco at the moment in a side that is playing to his strengths.

Matagawatov.......KagMatov....drooooool

Think you're right about Berbs being dropped in that run in too...unfortunate that he didn't run around enough in the eyes of the masses....

Actually, I remember having that very thought one night watching the Champions league where they give the distance travelled stats and Berba had massive numbers, it was more his languid style than his actual, factual lack of work rate that went against him in the eyes of many I feel.
Even Fergie...I often had the feeling Fergie had a fairly basic way of looking at the game, Berba didn't appear to run enough so he was out.

Schwiiing

tallaghtmick wrote: »

28 million or in around that 4 seasons and scores less than 60 goals, we signed him to be a goalscorer like he was at spurs, not good enough in my eyes.

At Spurs the idea was for everyone to give him the ball like Utd did wth vNistelrooy and he scored for fun. At Utd Ronaldo was on the rise and Berba was played behind Rooney. The 1 season we used him to his strengths he was the leagues top scorer and scored a hat trick against Liverpool and 5 against Blackburn.

KombuchaMshroom

TheDoc wrote: »

I have a tendancy to "mixmash" seasons into the one memory.

Am I right in saying the season Berbatov finished like joint goalscorer with Drogba, he was dropped for a fair few games in the run in, as Ferguson preferenced Chico alongside Rooney for a "high tempo, pacey" front line, to tackle Barca at Wembley?

Or am I putting two seasons into the one memory again

It was Tevez not Drogba he tied with but you are right.

I even put the question to Martin Tyler on his sky blog and he said that Berbatov was by a long way the player to start the fewest premier league games and still be top scorer, 23 starts I think it was, with the next lowest from previous years being 30.

Despite carrying us for a huge portion of that season then he was ridiculously dropped from the entire CL final squad. I'm in no way saying we would have won with him playing, but starting Hernandez back then was just idiotic considering how bad his overall play was back then.

clubberlang12

TheDoc wrote: »

Why is the comparison odd?

I'm always open to correct as I said above my memory can sometimes be muddied, but Lallana has to my knowledge only moved into a more central position this year. He was typically operating from the left wing or wide in a left trio, similar to Young in his younger days at Villa operating form the left cutting inside.

My point about Milner is that he was seen, thought and attempted to be converted into a CM. He was always a winger, thoughts of him being a CM were ridiculous and seeing a technical player, crying out for him to be played through the middle. He has a wonderful cross, tremendous engine and carries out great defensive duties aswell as good place and a trick or too.

He's recaptured a bit of that form that saw him rocket with Leeds, but only after ditching that feeble attempt at playing CM, which stunted his development, nothing to do with Toure.

My point is that there is an air of caution around Lallana and Barkley which I believe is merited considering typically how England seem to hype their players beyond belief. Barkley however looks to be an outragous talent, and I'd hope he continues on in that vain of developement.

I love watching big, strong players power their way through teams leaving opponents for dust.

I may be mistaken, and this is not being critical of what you are saying, but i'm pretty sure Milner excelled in his final season at Villa when deployed in a central midfield role driving forward and creating opportunities.

upstairs for coffee

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

tallaghtmick

Schwiiing wrote: »

At Spurs the idea was for everyone to give him the ball like Utd did wth vNistelrooy and he scored for fun. At Utd Ronaldo was on the rise and Berba was played behind Rooney. The 1 season we used him to his strengths he was the leagues top scorer and scored a hat trick against Liverpool and 5 against Blackburn.

So 8 goals against 2 teams......that leaves 13 for the rest of the season in which we play 38 games, I'm really not seeing it tbh. I guess im just not a fan of his type of player.

tallaghtmick

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

Yeh we really slipped up there alright.....

Will I Amnt

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

TheDoc

clubberlang12 wrote: »

I may be mistaken, and this is not being critical of what you are saying, but i'm pretty sure Milner excelled in his final season at Villa when deployed in a central midfield role driving forward and creating opportunities.

Your dead right he did excel, but by comparison to the midfield options at the time they were slim. I'm pretty sure he was drafted into the middle to cover for injuries and this notion arose that he would be a top CM

With Milner there is my Da in the back of my head, big Leeds fan, gets irked everytime he sees Milner. Thought he should have been a top European talent, not a make shift winger whose top trait is "graft".

I tend to agree, he's much more then a grafter.

Schwiiing

Am I right in saying that David Moyes won more silverware than Liverpool this season?

RichFTW

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

10 million on Borini, 15 million on Allen, 20 million on Downing, 35 million on Carroll, 20 million on Aquilani, 20 million on Keane.

tallaghtmick

Schwiiing wrote: »

Am I right in saying that David Moyes won more silverware than Liverpool this season?

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I think you've missed my point. I'm talking about monster signings.

Again, take United (Prices are relative):

Miss:
Veron
Anderson
Berba

Hits:
Keane
Cole
Stam
RVN
Rooney
Rio
RVP

Hargreaves was a miss but not because of ability, which is the point of the excercise. United are a better example than City and Chelsea as they were buying to consolidate success. Many of the petroclubs' signings were loss leader big names to entice other players and increase recognition.

You should definitely include transfer failures caused by injury and other unpredictable issues. Money wasted is money wasted.

upstairs for coffee

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

7 mil on vidic. 12 mil on ronaldo. 5 mil on evra. 2 mil on van der sar. not so ouch

and thats without going back to the likes of keane, cantona, irwin , schmeichel

Schwiiing

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

1m for Cantona. 3m for Keane. 7m for Vidic. 5m for Evra. 12m for Ronaldo. 0 for Giggs Beckham and Scholes combined. Balances it out don't you think.

@Ayan CoolS Dustpan got there before me.

clubberlang12

TheDoc wrote: »

Your dead right he did excel, but by comparison to the midfield options at the time they were slim. I'm pretty sure he was drafted into the middle to cover for injuries and this notion arose that he would be a top CM

With Milner there is my Da in the back of my head, big Leeds fan, gets irked everytime he sees Milner. Thought he should have been a top European talent, not a make shift winger whose top trait is "graft".

I tend to agree, he's much more then a grafter.

IT may have arisen from being drafted in to cover injuries, i can't recall, but there was no doubting his performances while playing there. I remember thinking that he really came into his own through the middle. A lot of young players start out wide, especially when entering a top team as a youngster, sometimes because of physical development or lack off. Milner was very effective out wide but in his last season at Villa i thought i seen the makings of a very good central box to box midfielder. I believe that had he gone to a team where first team football was guaranteed he would have remained playing through the middle.

Schwiiing

Schwiiing wrote: »

1m for Cantona. 3m for Keane. 7m for Vidic. 5m for Evra. 12m for Ronaldo. 0 for Giggs Beckham and Scholes combined. Balances it out don't you think.

@Ayan CoolS Dustpan got there before me.

great minds think alike....... or fools seldom differ. one of those

TheDoc

Schwiiing wrote: »

Am I right in saying that David Moyes won more silverware than Liverpool this season?

Might be alone on this one, but I've found it somewhat embarrassing people using the Charity Shield as a put down on Liverpool and as a defence by Moyes.

If anyone else used it as a defence I'd absolutely slaughter them. It's pure twisting the achievement to fit the narrative.

Charity shield is one of the most pointless competitions there can be, and I'd be highly suspect of anyone using it as legit.

I get it's been somewhat a running joke lately, but I've seen plenty of people using it as an actually justification or defence for Moyes, or a put down on Liverpool.

If your one of the people that has seriously used the Charity shield as a notch on the belt.........

keane2097

I was looking at fees adjusted for inflation the other day - that Keane figure would be like £30M+ by most measures. Obviously still a great transfer but not an example of getting a great player on the cheap in the slightest.

tallaghtmick

keane2097 wrote: »

I was looking at fees adjusted for inflation the other day - that Keane figure would be like £30M+ by most measures. Obviously still a great transfer but not an example of getting a great player on the cheap in the slightest.

Its 2014 not 2097 you and your time travel internet!

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

Your dead right he did excel, but by comparison to the midfield options at the time they were slim. I'm pretty sure he was drafted into the middle to cover for injuries and this notion arose that he would be a top CM

With Milner there is my Da in the back of my head, big Leeds fan, gets irked everytime he sees Milner. Thought he should have been a top European talent, not a make shift winger whose top trait is "graft".

I tend to agree, he's much more then a grafter.

Nope. Had to go to wiki for comfirmation.

At the start of the 2009–10 season, Milner moved into the centre of midfield after the sale of captain Gareth Barry to Manchester City.[69] On 28 February 2010, he scored the opening goal in the 2010 Football League Cup Final from the penalty spot. However, Villa were eventually beaten 2–1 by Manchester United. Milner ended the season with 12 goals and was named Aston Villa's Fan's Player of the Year and PFA Young Player of the Year.

He was excellent and found his true position in football imo. He doesnt have the trickery to be a top winger but in CM he was a toned down version of Yaya Toure imo. Would have been an excellent signing for us at the time.