Landlord charging for PRTB fee due to change in Flatmate?

Zascar

I have lived in my apartment for approx 4 years. I originally moved in with a friend but when she moved out I had to get someone else, been living with him for the last 1.5 years. Now he’s moving out and I have found someone new via Daft. However the letting agent mailed me today saying that since they only registered the PRTB a while back, and due to the change in flatmate – she wants to charge my current flatmate €90.

I think this sounds a bit ridiculous. Can anyone advise on this? I did not realise each person has to be named on the application and it has to be kept up to date. What if you have 6 people in a place, there will be a lot of changes, do you have to reregister and pay each time?

Any advice appreciated.
Thanks

snubbleste

What do the regulations say? I presume you checked.

quietsailor

Zascar wrote: »

I have lived in my apartment for approx 4 years. I originally moved in with a friend but when she moved out I had to get someone else, been living with him for the last 1.5 years. Now he’s moving out and I have found someone new via Daft. However the letting agent mailed me today saying that since they only registered the PRTB a while back, and due to the change in flatmate – she wants to charge my current flatmate €90.

I think this sounds a bit ridiculous. Can anyone advise on this? I did not realise each person has to be named on the application and it has to be kept up to date. What if you have 6 people in a place, there will be a lot of changes, do you have to reregister and pay each time?

Any advice appreciated.
Thanks

Check the PRTB FAQ's, I remember seeing something there that if a tenant changes but some of the original tenant(s) stay on then it is not a new tenancy, rather the Landlord/Agent is only updating the tenancy and it isn't a new tenancy, hence no fee needed.

Something to be careful of, if they re-register you it may mean your indicating that a new tenancy has commenced, that means that they can terminate withing the first 6 months for n reason, it gets harder after the 6 months, I doubt this is what they are up to, I'd imagine the PRTB would take a dim view of tricking people into allowing their tenancy to be ended early/more easily for the LL.

The flip side of that coin is if it's ignorance on the part of the agent your tenancy resets, so after 6 months you can stay for the next 3.5 yrs and the LL will find it difficult to move you, At the moment your 4 year Part 4 security of tenure is due to end soon so you will go back on the 6 months of limited reason needed to terminate (I think! I've never been in or had a tenancy last that long)

am i bovvered

Sounds like the landlord is trying to charge you for their incompetence.

sharpsuit

There is no fee to update the details of a tenancy registration. There are no grounds for the new flatmate to have to pay this fee.

OP's entitlement to a Part 4 tenancy is measured by the time period since the tenancy started, and not when the landlord first registered the tenancy.

quietsailor

sharpsuit wrote: »

OP's entitlement to a Part 4 tenancy is measured by the time period since the tenancy started, and not when the landlord first registered the tenancy.

Indeed, except in this case - if the changeover between the original 2nd tenant (call the OP the 1st tenant for simplicity's sake) and the "new" 2nd tenant who just came in wasn't done properly then the new 2nd tenant has the same tenure as the OP --- and the 4 yrs of security is almost up. This means they BOTH revert back to the period where the LL hasn't to give a reason for terminating the tenancy, ie the first six months of a tenancy.

OP: you are on a Part IV not a fixed term tenancy aren't you?

Zascar

sharpsuit wrote: »

There is no fee to update the details of a tenancy registration. There are no grounds for the new flatmate to have to pay this fee.

OP's entitlement to a Part 4 tenancy is measured by the time period since the tenancy started, and not when the landlord first registered the tenancy.

Thanks so much - that's exactly what I was hoping for. I did a search and just found this:

http://www.prtb.ie/landlords/helpful-info-documents/registration-faq's

If there is a change in one of the particulars of the tenancy after it has been registered with the PRTB this is considered to be an update to a tenancy. For example, if some of the tenants are replaced by new tenants (but at least one of the tenants remain in the rented property) then this would be considered an update to an existing tenancy....
No fee is payable when providing an update of tenancy details.

Quietsailor, I'm on a part 4 but just about to sign a new lease when the new guy moves in.

Penny Tration

Zascar wrote: »

Thanks so much - that's exactly what I was hoping for. I did a search and just found this:

http://www.prtb.ie/landlords/helpful-info-documents/registration-faq's



Quietsailor, I'm on a part 4 but just about to sign a new lease when the new guy moves in.

Do you want to sign a new lease? You don't have to.

Marcusm

Perhaps you'd like to pay the landlord's reletting charge too. If anyone could be expected to hear such a cost it would be an outgoing tenant being released early from his tenancy. Otherwise it's a thin end of the wedge. (Speaking as a landlord and a tenant I know on which side I feel these costs should fall.)

quietsailor

Zascar wrote: »

Thanks so much - that's exactly what I was hoping for. I did a search and just found this:

http://www.prtb.ie/landlords/helpful-info-documents/registration-faq's



Quietsailor, I'm on a part 4 but just about to sign a new lease when the new guy moves in.

You personally don't need to sign a lease your still on the Part IV from your existing tenancy - you said the 4 yrs are nearly up so either way you'll be soon entering into the initial 6 months period of a part IV, if you think it'll keep things cordial between the agent/LL and yourself you could sign it

Signing a new lease is good and bad, it depends on your own circumstances;
-If you think you'll move soon don't sign a fixed term lease
- if you think you'll be there for a few years sign the lease

Zascar

Thanks, yes I want to be there for the foreseeable future, so I want to sign the lease. I basically control the apartment and have been finding flatmtes in that time. Should I just have myself on the lease or the new tenant too?

odds_on

Zascar wrote: »

Thanks, yes I want to be there for the foreseeable future, so I want to sign the lease. I basically control the apartment and have been finding flatmtes in that time. Should I just have myself on the lease or the new tenant too?

You are coming up to a period known as a "Further Part 4" tenancy. As has been said, you can be evicted, without reason, during the first 6 months of the Further Part 4 tenancy. To safeguard against that, because you intend to stay long term, your best option is to sign a new fixed term lease. Furthermore, with a fixed term agreement, the landlord may only evict you if you are in breach of your obligations and for no other reason unless there is a suitable break clause.

However, new most leases have a clause prohibiting renting out a room without the landlord's express permission - check for that one.

As regards the letting agent charging for PRTB registration, this would not normally occur as it is just a change of tenant. However, if the housemate is found by you. and lives there (with the landlord's permission) but pays the rent to you and is not on the lease (nor an assignee) then that person is a licensee or lodger and not a tenant.

If the housemate is a tenant and the housemates change by assignment, then there is no extra PRTB registration to pay. However, as it is a letting agent doing the work of informing the PRTB of a change of tenant, they may charge the landlord for their work and thus the landlord may pass this charge on to the tenant.

In the principle of an assignment, (because, in effect, it is a breach of a fixed term lease (but not of a Part 4 lease) the landlord should not be "out of pocket" by even 1 cent. Therefore, any expenses the landlord has must be paid for by the tenant.