DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

annapr

22km LSR this morning, to beyond Sutton and back along the sea front. Spotted a few of the mad people who are doing the 10 marathons in 10 days, there seemed to be only about 10 runners doing it (no surprise there)... fair play to them. I encouraged a few of them, then realised I wasn't sure if I was encouraging racers or just confusing people out training. Exchanged waves with Mrs. FBOT too.

Felt good all the way, maybe a little tired before the last 5k, but once I get to the wooden bridge I feel as if I'm already home so the last 4k were no bother. I got a cheery wave from the guy manning the finish (?) van for the marathon. He knew well I wasn't in that group anyway!

A good week's running:
Tuesday -- 4miles -- 5:39/km
Weds -- 8 miles -- 13 km 5:48/Km
Saturday -- 5k (did i mention i got a park run pb? :-)) -- 5:10/km
Today -- 22k at 6:09/km -- still too fast but I keep thinking I'm running slower

I was only supposed to do 12miles today but since I missed the 5miles during the week I was a few miles short of the weekly target so added a few Km. Took a gel at about the half way mark (high 5 berry burst), it was inoffensive but no idea if it had any effect. Carried about 400ml of water with a half a zero tab dissolved. And stopped to get a VitHit drink at the end, I find those really refreshing at the end of a LSR, and full of vitamins to replace the ones sweated out.

I feel like I'm speaking broken English, switching between miles and Km!!! maybe I could slow down more if I did my lsr in miles...

Corrib man

Long slow miles are much more relaxing don't you think? Well done on sat at parkrun . Any idea what distance Sutton to clontarf Station? Always do The same routes do getting a bit tedious!

Mimojo

Just back from 3 mile slow recovery after 20 yesterday, first time I went out day after lsr & found it def helped with stiffness. Here rolling heel on frozen coke bottle, great tip!!!

skittles11

Out on yesterday's 30km lsr along Wicklow Way, saw a good few others out training and got to thinking if any of them were on here. It'd be good to know if others were on similar runs to yourself. Basically I'm wondering if there's any Boards running kit? I've seen some nice cycling jerseys out there but never spotted any running tshirts. Just a thought.

Ososlo

Kop On wrote: »

15 miler done today in the Phoenix Park, my longest ever run. In hindsight I may still have done this run too fast for a LSR, would welcome any input? The plan was to try 10:30 per mile. Completed it in 2:38:41 (Avg pace 10:35) but wasn't entirely consistent:

M1 - 10:39
M2 - 10:55
M3 - 11:07
M4 - 10:50
M5 - 10:49
M6 - 11.07
M7 - 10:56
M8 - 10:30
M9 - 9:41
M10 - 9:52
M11 - 9:54
M12 - 10:55
M13 - 10:45
M14 - 10:16
M15 - 10:22

Had a gel at 5 miles and 10 miles, a fig roll at 13 miles and some wine gums at 14 miles. Definitely couldn't eat too much without water. Not sure why I picked it up so much for Miles 9,10 and 11.

Home and in to a cold water bath and looking forward to a rest day tomorrow!

I wouldn't worry about it being really consistent as inclines/declines etc will have an effect on the effort/pace.
How did you feel during it and after it? You seemed to have finished well judging by the pace at the end.
What kind of marathon time do you think you're capable of? Will you do a half or have you done one? (sorry if you've told us before).
If you felt very comfortable during it and could have chatted easily enough and were not out of breath during it then you should be fine with this pace. If you were struggling here and there then maybe take it down a notch.

Ososlo

laura_ac3 wrote: »

I dropped my last fruit pastille at mile 17 of a run last weekend - I had been looking forward to it so much as a "snack'. I quickly picked it up....decided on a 5 second rule and ate it anyway. Should I feel ashamed???

ha ha no not at all:D I go by the 5 second rule too!

Ososlo

KillianByrne wrote: »

I remembered in 2012 that the jellies from the supporters were a lifesaver, even just for the interaction with people and something to take my mind off running.

So being injured in 2013, I bought 5kg of jellies and it was one of the most enjoyable things about the day. While it may be a while off now and without wanting to tempt fate, if anyone is injured you might consider getting on to the course anyway and shouting encouragement at random strangers. it is very rewarding.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. I had a ball in 2012 watching all the runners. A thoroughly enjoyable day out and a great idea for those injured to still be a part of a wonderful experience.

Ososlo

YourPaceOrMine wrote: »

I'm not doing the half, Nicsx is. After all our lsr's together I'm not sure we will run DCM together I can't see me being able to hold the pace for 26 miles so I'm thinking about playing it safe and going with a slower group. Maybe it's a lack of confidence in myself, cold feet or just pure fear of burning out and not being able to finish at all. Found the last 2 lsr's tough, tougher than it should be at this stage.

If you don't think you're very equally matched in terms of ability, then it might be a really bad idea setting out together. If one of you starts out even a tiny bit too hard it could lead to major problems later in the race. Definitely better to start out very conservatively and pick it up after 20 miles if still feeling good so I think you're being really sensible reconsidering running it together.
I know it's a shame as you've done all the training together but it's important to look at the bigger picture and you both want to have the best experience you can possible have. If that means running apart then ...

Ososlo

skittles11 wrote: »

Out on yesterday's 30km lsr along Wicklow Way, saw a good few others out training and got to thinking if any of them were on here. It'd be good to know if others were on similar runs to yourself. Basically I'm wondering if there's any Boards running kit? I've seen some nice cycling jerseys out there but never spotted any running tshirts. Just a thought.

There is a Boards running top but I rarely see them around. Every few years a guy around these parts organises ordering a batch. They're blue with white writing. I don't think any order has been organised in the last year or so.
I'll post up a pic later if I can find one.
Another way of meeting other Boardsies is to arrange to run with them by posting in this thread. Just put up your name and the time and place you plan to run and the general pace you hope to run. Others then might come along and list their name under yours.

Pacing Mule

So Strava has a course profile loaded for DCM

Link to it here

Those afraid of hills may be better off not clicking :pac:

Firedance

OK here it is, race report from Athlone, apologies for delay, I took the opportunity to see family in Leitrim so just getting back to reality now.

After all the race it/dont race it discussion I was looking forward to giving it a good shot, ate well & healthily in the run up and kept well hydrated. Early night on Friday night so woke feeling rested on Saturday morning. Had a bowl of porridge at 7.30am with the plan to eat toast & peanut butter on the journey down as race start was 11am. However, I had to force the porridge in due to nerves and never ate the toast in the end. Had a large glass of water with Berocca and set off. Got there in plenty of time to register and do a little warm up, it was already very hot and a good crowd was there. I stood with the 2 hr pacers on the start line feeling confident that I had put the work in and could do this, the pacers re-assured us they would keep a steady pace throughout.

Off we went at a nice steady pace, if anything felt a bit slow, think it was around 9.15/9.20, we kept to this for the first few km (pacers called out each KM), it was fairly crowded with a good bit of bumping off each other and the road ahead was jammed packed with runners, but it didnt matter because they were going faster than us and and followed the marshalls instructions about where to start from, right? wrong! we were going too slow and being held back by a very large group of people on the narrow country roads, the pacers had to sprint at stages to get through and this is where I fell apart, at one stage we were doing 8.10 according to my watch, I know just for a short burst but nonetheless between that and the now incredibly intense heat of the packed road I blew up. I went from being comfortable and thinking I could hold this pace to struggling hugely, by around miles 6-7 I could feel my heart rate quite elevated and I felt a little concerned, I slowed my pace and at one stage stopped and walked, totally defeated. Then I came upon a group of girls, two of them running with their music playing through the phone and decided to hang with them and let their tunes help me through (i had no music with me). That kept me going for a while, at least 3K I think. My breathing was still all over the place to the extent that when I stopped to walk i felt almost constricted and wheezy. I came across several people that were being attended to by medics along the way and lots of people walking. Plan A (2 hours) and B (PB) were out the window and I was now onto plan C (finish!). Somewhere in me I talked myself into pushing on, I knew I'd be so disappointed in myself if I didn't and so I pushed on, the course was very lonely with sporadic support and broken roads causing a blister that I've never had before. I have to say, physically and mentally it was the worst race I've ever run. I'm not blaming the course or anyone else in case that's coming across here, if I do that half again I've learned valuable lessons! I spent a lot of the run wondering how on earth I could do this for 26.2, I know my pace for DCM will be considerably slower. Having slept on it I don't feel quite so downhearted. I learned a lot about myself and what does/does not suit me and I guess that's invaluable experience. Fuel wise I brought 2 gels thinking I'd only need one, took them both and had an electrolyte drink with me which I topped up at each water station. Also dumped water over myself at each station to try and keep cool which did help. The clock said 2.17 as I crossed the line, my watch said 2.15, my carlingford half was 2.12.

If anyone can spot anything they think I should/shouldn't have done in the above I'd love to hear it :-) Thanks folks and well done everyone on some smashing long runs over the weekend, have been reading through all the reports!

splits
903
905
942 (water station)
936
10.31
1015
1106 (water station)
1028
1107
1120 (water station)
1046
1105
1026

Pacing Mule

Hi Firedance

Fair play to you for posting such an honest report.

For me there was a combination of factors there. Not your ideal nutrition, an awfully hot day, pacing issues etc. Boils down to being unlucky. And happy days - you got unlucky then and not on the big day at DCM.

Move on and don't look back.

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

OK here it is, race report from Athlone, apologies for delay, I took the opportunity to see family in Leitrim so just getting back to reality now.

No doubt about it but you started off way too fast (not your fault). I'd say if you had run your own race and not with the pacers you would have done much better. You shot your load too early in the race. If you had adjusted your effort for conditions from the start and started out much much slower than target pace, I think you could have steadily gotten faster and ended up running the second half faster and finishing strong.
I also think you're losing too much time at the water stations. Did you stop completely to drink instead of grabbing a drink and continuing on your way whilst running?
Trying to eat breakfast whilst nervous is a very difficult thing to do. I know this only too well. You'll have to have a good breakfast in you the morning of DCM so just try and find things that will go down easy.
Definitely bring extra gels for the marathon.
At the end of the day, I think it's a pacing issue. Get that right for DCM and you'll fly it. At the start of the race the pace should feel very conservative. Be prepared to readjust your goals even on the morning of the race. If the first few miles feel too fast, then they are.
Seriously though, well done to you. I mean that. You've got great stamina and that is worth so much when it comes to running a marathon.

Firedance

Thanks ososlo, appreciate that. I normally grab & run at the water stations but because I was struggling I allowed myself to walk thro while taking on water & gels hence the lower paces around those miles. I agree, if id started at the very back and adjusted pace things may have been different & I guess these are the important lessons we learn. I plan to carry 4/5 gels for DCM.

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

Thanks ososlo, appreciate that. I normally grab & run at the water stations but because I was struggling I allowed myself to walk thro while taking on water & gels hence the lower paces around those miles. I agree, if id started at the very back and adjusted pace things may have been different & I guess these are the important lessons we learn. I plan to carry 4/5 gels for DCM.

Ah yeah very understandable that you needed the extra time at the water stations.

Yeah you'll have learned an awful lot from it and you know you're capable of much better than you did.
Take it very easy for a few days as you did put in a good effort yesterday so keep everything at recovery effort for the rest of the week.
Well done again:)

annapr

Corrib man wrote: »

Long slow miles are much more relaxing don't you think? Well done on sat at parkrun . Any idea what distance Sutton to clontarf Station? Always do The same routes do getting a bit tedious!

Haha and thanks! Sutton to Clontarf dart station is about 9.5k or if you want to relax, 6 miles. Lovely run along the seafront with only about 2k on the side of the road and about 3k on grass. Or if you want to take in Dollymount strand that adds another 2k or so. Only thing to keep in mind is the wind can be tough... And some days seems to be against you in every direction!

annapr

Firedance wrote: »

Thanks ososlo, appreciate that. I normally grab & run at the water stations but because I was struggling I allowed myself to walk thro while taking on water & gels hence the lower paces around those miles. I agree, if id started at the very back and adjusted pace things may have been different & I guess these are the important lessons we learn. I plan to carry 4/5 gels for DCM.

It sounds like it was a really hot day too, reading your report brought me back to last year's half in the park, it was my first and it felt awful... People were dropping like flies, even by 5-6K people were walking. And it was humid yesterday too. Thanks for the report and fair play to you for sticking with it.

Hal Higdon himself (if in fact he is a real person) say it's ok to walk through water stations.

ecoli

annapr wrote: »

Hal Higdon himself (if in fact he is a real person) say it's ok to walk through water stations.

Bill Rodgers walked through every water stop in Boston, didn't stop him winning the marathon in 2.09 If it means you are getting the right fluids on board the 15-20 seconds it takes to stop and drink the water may be worth a minute or two in the long run

Tigerandahalf

Lovely weather out there at the moment these days. Fantastic countryside to be running through with the patchwork of harvested fields and animals pottering about.
Anyway 4 recovery miles this evening plus core work. Was at the beach today and went for walk with herself. Legs felt good after the lsr yesterday. Best I have felt after long run. Not as fatigued. Those that are not doing the half next weekend what are the plans?
@Firedance , was very hot for a race this weekend. Not nice to be racing hard. I found it tough enough on the lsr and I was trying to take it easy. Still came home with a red face! You have another race under the belt and no harm in the long term.

hillsiderunner

Report for this "weeklet" is mainly a case of watching the ITB and pulling back mileage - was a shorter week (Wed-Sun) than usual because of last week's LSR sliding to Tuesday. Anyway I did a 5miler on the Wednesday and could feel the ITB a bit during that, and the couple of days after ... so I changed the plans, did no running Thurs-Sat, and ended up with just 17 miles for this short week.

Wed pm: 4.81 miles EZ 9:36 pace
[Could feel the effect of Tuesday's 19miles on my body, and 9:36 wasn't that easy after all. Should have been closer to 10min pace here. ITB was rubbing the side of the knee a tiny bit in the last 2 miles.]

I skipped Thurs, Fri because of the ITB being tender. In the end I skipped Saturday's run too as it didn't feel perfect and I was mentally flattened from a heavy week at work. I decided I wouldn't even try to do 20miles today as it seemed too dangerous on the leg, especially after the light mileage for the rest of the week. Instead I did just 12miles, but as a "half marathon LR" rather than a marathon LR. It's faster than I do the marathon LRs, for a reason - I'd missed my Pace/Tempo running earlier in the week... I really wanted to try some miles at my goal half pace.

Sunday pm: 12.02 miles "Longish MultiPace Run"
The PLAN: 3 miles @9:20 (PMP+15secs), 5-6miles @8:20 (PHMP), 3 miles @9:20
The reality: 3miles @9:19 avg, 3miles at half pace (8:19, 8:17, 8:19), 6miles @9:15 avg
[Was quite consistent, with all the slower miles between 9:14-9:20 except the last one at 9:05. The reason I only did 3 miles at PHMP was because during the 3rd one I felt I'd only be able to do at most a 4th, and wasn't sure about that, so switched to the slower pace. Could feel the left hip/thigh being slightly 'different' from 6.5 miles on, but no pain ... fingers crossed.]

Anyway there it is ... I'm not sure what the implications of "only 3 PHMP" will mean for DCHM. The McMillan calculator gives 1hr 49 for my Half based on recent 10k and 5k results ... and I've always thought I've more endurance than speed. Might be that the extra taper from the week ahead (and the enforced "tapering" this week) will give my legs a boost.

Plan for the week ahead is to watch/stretch the ITB, and to do 5 miles including intervals on Tues, 3 comfortable miles on Wed, and 5 miles Thurs .. then down to the Phoenix Park on Saturday morning to follow the 1:50 pacers. But I will pull back if it feels too tough in the early miles.

Mimojo

Just a query on pacing for DCM. My LSR this weekend was 20 Miles in 3 hrs 40min, so average pace of 11min/mile. When I input this into the McMillan Calculator it is giving a marathon time of 4:54. I dont really have a clue of what to actually aim for on the day, but was kind of thinking 4.20/4.30 ish, but maybe my calculations are completely out? LSR on Saturday was tough going, I felt like I could have managed another mile or two, but another 6 was def going to be a tall order! I know I have read on here that on the day as it is a race with so many other people & supports your pace will be a bit faster, but is 4:30 too ambitious?

I am doing the HM on Saturday & again not too sure what to aim for. My time at the Frank Duffy was 1:32, so was hoping that I could do the HM in under 2:10ish, would hope to be a bit quicker. So that is where I was getting the 4:30 prediction for, but I am prob way off!

Joleigh

Mimojo wrote: »

Just a query on pacing for DCM. My LSR this weekend was 20 Miles in 3 hrs 40min, so average pace of 11min/mile. When I input this into the McMillan Calculator it is giving a marathon time of 4:54. I dont really have a clue of what to actually aim for on the day, but was kind of thinking 4.20/4.30 ish, but maybe my calculations are completely out? LSR on Saturday was tough going, I felt like I could have managed another mile or two, but another 6 was def going to be a tall order! I know I have read on here that on the day as it is a race with so many other people & supports your pace will be a bit faster, but is 4:30 too ambitious?

I am doing the HM on Saturday & again not too sure what to aim for. My time at the Frank Duffy was 1:32, so was hoping that I could do the HM in under 2:10ish, would hope to be a bit quicker. So that is where I was getting the 4:30 prediction for, but I am prob way off!

Do the McMillan calculator again with your Frank Duffy time in rather than your LSR time. And a goal time of 4.30 hours and it will give you a suggested marathon pace.

Joleigh

annapr wrote: »

It sounds like it was a really hot day too, reading your report brought me back to last year's half in the park, it was my first and it felt awful... People were dropping like flies, even by 5-6K people were walking. And it was humid yesterday too. Thanks for the report and fair play to you for sticking with it.

Hal Higdon himself (if in fact he is a real person) say it's ok to walk through water stations.

Also brings me back to last years Half in the park. It was so humid. I saw people picking bottles of water off the ground to drink! I drank all the water I got from stations plus a bottle I brought with me. Forecast for this sat is looking like low winds and warm temps again (so far, that could change).

Well done Firedance, you stuck with it and got it done. That's great preparation for the mental demons you will battle with on the big day!

avfc1874

Hi has anyone tried yoga or Pilate's. I want to try something to increase my flexerbility especially in the legs and hips after my longer runs. I can't try both as classes are starting on the same day anyone who has tried either and could give me their opinions would be great thanks

Firedance

avfc1874 wrote: »

Hi has anyone tried yoga or Pilate's. I want to try something to increase my flexerbility especially in the legs and hips after my longer runs. I can't try both as classes are starting on the same day anyone who has tried either and could give me their opinions would be great thanks

Hi avfc, I do both, they both have benefits to runners. Yoga is great for stretching out & toning up muscles, Pilates is great for strengthening your core which in turn helps running. If its flexibility you're after then yoga is the one to try, if you have a smart phone you could always download a pilates app and do that on alternate days.

ciaranmac

Only got three runs in but I got something from each of them.

Tuesday - 11.9k pace run, felt good so I pushed it a little and ran 10k in 63:03 - faster than I've raced that distance.

Friday - 6.5k intervals, sprints and hills.

Sunday - Another milestone - 34 km in 4:25. I took the opportunity to try out pretty much everything I planned on doing at DCM.
- 2 types of gels, High5 and Kinetica. Neither gave me the trouble I was afraid of
- Wore the singlet the Irish Cancer Society sent me and it chafed a bit - even with Vaseline I might have to wear something under it.
- I got a water belt during the week so I gave that a try. Found it very handy but due to the heat I ran out of water.

I ran 4 laps of 8.5 km so I was able to pick up more water (till it ran out) and food from the car. Near the end when I had no water left a nice lady came out from her house and handed me a pint glass of clear, refreshing water and it never tasted as good

Overall I didn't find it as tough as the 31km I did last week, though the last bit was hard. I think the gels made a big difference.

MLC_biker

Have been training since June for the DCM, last Saturday was 18 miles (Sutton to AK Ashtown where OH was buying new shoes, agree with other thread - North Road goes on forever...). Next weekend is Half in the Park, last year 2:19, hoping for 2:10 this year on the back of a 1:34 in the FD 10 mile. Plan to go with the 4:50 pacers in the DCM (my first marathon) and enjoy the day, will worry about PBs in the future...

For those running Sutton-Clontarf , a good variation is via Raheny to get a bit of a climb , adding Watermill road if you want to make it a bit longer. Or Sutton-Offington-Howth and back via the beach if the tide is out (hyc.ie).

Week after next is one and only 20 mile, probably do a loop (Sutton-Clonshaugh-Malahide Road - Fairview - Raheny-Sutton) that is becoming more familiar by the week........especially to the staff at Spar in Coolock!

Joleigh

avfc1874 wrote: »

Hi has anyone tried yoga or Pilate's. I want to try something to increase my flexerbility especially in the legs and hips after my longer runs. I can't try both as classes are starting on the same day anyone who has tried either and could give me their opinions would be great thanks

Yoga is all about stretching and relaxing, very calming. Pilates is about stretching too but also working on the core, so I'd feel you'd get more of a work out. Because of the core work I'd choose pilates over yoga. It will def help with Marathon training.

MLC_biker

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Grant Thornton 5K Sep 2014 - 25.37 (trying for 25 next year)
Terenure 5 miles May 2014 - 44.36
Frank duffy 10 mile 2014 - 1:34
DRS Half Marathon Sep 2013 - 2:19

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do) No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. Currently run 4 days a week, , mileage approx 35-40 per week,
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Ideally would like to finish in 4:50, but want to enjoy the day and finish
How many days a week can you train? 3-4
Why are you running this marathon? Time to give it a go, have been running a few years now and really enjoyed DRS to Half-Marathon last year. Older brother has done it time for the kid to man up !

Thanks Ososlo for mentoring :-)

avfc1874

Firedance wrote: »

Hi avfc, I do both, they both have benefits to runners. Yoga is great for stretching out & toning up muscles, Pilates is great for strengthening your core which in turn helps running. If its flexibility you're after then yoga is the one to try, if you have a smart phone you could always download a pilates app and do that on alternate days.

Thanks very much for that. I'll give yoga a go. Thanks again