DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

MKDTH

Dublin Half Marathon



Well after not really training since the start of August due to a ongoing tendinitis of the patella in my left knee, I was happy to get round and finish!

I started in the last ten people to start the race exactly as I did in the Frank Duffy. This was so that I would not be able to increase pace at first due to the traffic ahead.
As expected from looking at the route, it was very congested at the one mile marker which was not helped by the Ambulance fund raiser guys, although not really caring about time helped my mood on this. Feeling the congestion and a tightness from my heavy strapping I had on my injured knee I ended up stopping twice within this first mile to try and adjust it.
We were almost at walking speed going up the hill with cars parked on the left before getting back onto Chesterfield for a little more room when I could start over taking a few more. Going up this hill was the first time my knee gave me the pain I had been dreading although it.

Mile three and I decided to stop for a pee which I though I had covered by going to the toilet 15 mins before the race, note to self - a little less water the morning of a race! I had been drinking extra all week leading up to this so that must of played its part. (This little stop cost me about 40 seconds.)
Onto the first water station and I had caught up with the ambulance fund raiser and in what became my race ritual grabbed two bottles of water, poured one over my head and shoulders and sipped at the other bottle while hanging onto it until next the water stop.

As the miles ticked by I had a jelly baby roughly every two miles and was still feeling okay and then seemed to slow as I was no longer over taking many. I was running at the same speed as some club runners in yellow and green and had my one and only gel about now. I then noticed the club runners were all of the sudden a good 30 meters ahead when reaching the lucozade station.
Most of us had a jealous glance of those coming up Upper Glen Road as they only had a few hundred meters left while us coming back from farmleigh still having over six miles left .
I always had it in my head that i would run steady to around this point and hopefully kick on just like I did for the last six miles of the frank duffy, but I was doing okay in my own tempo but not really speeding up with my lack of recent training showing me just how badly my fitness is getting.

Mile nine came and I had overtaken two of the three club runners once more and did not see them again for the whole race During this time it suddenly dawned on me that I was starting to really feel tired now and figured I had four miles left, but 17 if this was a marathon!!!!!!!!!
I had over taken a good few going down Chesterfield but as the hill went down further many started flying past me to my dismay.
We then turned for the long drag outside the park with me still grinding away as one by one people stopped to walk giving me more and more of a excuse to stop as my brain was telling me it was okay as others were also walking!!! I had to really push hard not to not stop and found myself in constant conversation and shouting inside my own head to keep going and stop being a pussy.
The long slow drag outside finally finished, I knew that Upper Glen Road was going to be horrible after last months experience but thankfully kept plugging away.
I finished in 2:23:48 and never stopped after the 3mile pee stop, a last 50 meter sprint before having my knee lock as soon as I stopped running which I knew was on the cards as it also happened after the Frank Duffy.

I was elated to just finish a race in which I thought my knee could lock at any stage, the Doctor in the first aid tent had a look and says I may have a tear of my cartilage as I feared two months ago although no way of telling if this fresh or not. No idea if my ultrasound and exercises from two trips to the sports physio had helped or not.
Next stop I am going to the very same Doctor on Monday morning when he will then forward me on for a MRI scan on. My other knee is feeling very second hand with a very similar feel to it!
After the MRI i may finally be willing to admit defeat in my bid for DCM, but hopefully not defeat in my running career which only started in May and has given me loads of fun and just as importantly a chance to eat as much food as I want without getting obese .


Sorry for the long read.

Ososlo

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Right...now I'm a bit more composed and have time here's my report. Never done a proper one of these before but might as well give it a bash! Health warning: this is probably going to be long and waffly.......

Great report Mrs! Super pacing there, lovely and consistent.
You ran a very clever race and lovely to finish so strongly and the 'almost' puking is a great sign that you gave it your all.
Well done again, you're setting yourself up nicely for the big one!

Darren 83

Well done everyone on the half great results, did just over 11 miles lsr a nice step back from last week delighted with the pacing of it

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/595852678

I'm trying to fit in another 20 mile lsr before the big day, if I did one two weeks before the race before taper would this be ideal?

Ososlo

Darren 83 wrote: »

Well done everyone on the half great results, did just over 11 miles lsr a nice step back from last week delighted with the pacing of it

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/595852678

I'm trying to fit in another 20 mile lsr before the big day, if I did one two weeks before the race before taper would this be ideal?

Hi Darren, nice run there!

This is the set up for the lsr (in miles) for the Boards Plan between now and the big day:
20, 18, 14, 8, 2

And this is Hal:
14, 20, 12, 8, 0

Going on those I'd try to keep the very long runs to the next 2 weeks and start the taper then (3 weeks before)

bungalow

The plan I'm following is 19 next week end, then 20, the 13 and I think 10

bungalow

Actually last one is 6miles not 10

Darren 83

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi Darren, nice run there!

This is the set up for the lsr (in miles) for the Boards Plan between now and the big day:
20, 18, 14, 8, 2

And this is Hal:
14, 20, 12, 8, 0

Going on those I'd try to keep the very long runs to the next 2 weeks and start the taper then (3 weeks before)

I was thinking that I'll be In Dublin in two weeks staying there for the week end, Sunday wont be a option for a lsr will have to do it really early Sat.

Pacing Mule

Sorry to anyone who has read this already in my log but figured I may get some advice here from the boss, her merry helpers and other experienced boardsies that would not have seen my log .....

Alright folks - this will be a slightly long one but I'd really appreciate if you bear with me and offer some advice at the end.

Today I set off to do 20 miles. I had a route mapped out in my head that would finish at the top of heartbreak hill to give me a good insight into the clonskeagh drag etc. I left my house ran down through blanchardstown, castleknock and chapleizod hill, straight up that mega hill to the bottom of kylemore road and up to join the marathon course at walkinstown roundabout. Aimed for a pace around 10:30 which would be MP + 1 minute. Would be happy with 15 seconds either side of that depending on the terrain and stage of the run.

Things didn't go very well at all. By 10 miles in I was starting to hurt. Knees, hips, legs in general were all giving out much more than I would have expected at that point in. Then a gradual realisation that I had messed up the route and that I would be landing up heartbreak hill at 17 miles and not the 20 planned. Of course I was still going to run 20 miles but now it felt like 23 if you get me as I had being counting down the route in my head by roads - just down to terenure then to milltown etc So was feeling a bit demoralised all round.

Things continued to hurt a but and got gradually worse but I did make it up from Milltown to Clonskeagh and heartbreak hill unscathed. A good confidence booster to have met them whilst uncomfortable and not be cracked.

That said by mile 18 I was really hurting and involuntarily slowed down for the last 2 miles. The last mile in particular was a total painful slog just hanging on for dear life. If I didn't have a goal of 20 miles I'd have stopped at 18. I had no chance of finishing off 26.

Splits are ...

10:35, 10:24, 10:22, 10:23, 10:32, 10:39, 10:26, 11:23 (took a walk up that steep hill out of Chapleizod as I figured it made no sense to shred myself trying to run it), 10:45, 10:48, 10:38, 10:51, 10:53, 10:46, 11:01, 10:31, 10:48, (up Clonskeagh / Roebuck) 10:58, 11:23, 11:25

Finished in tatters legs wise but absolutely perfect aerobically. This wasn't the issue at all.

So although I nailed Clonskeagh and Roebuck which was great I am really concerned that I am nowhere near a 4:10:00 marathon and am wondering should I be looking at cutting goal times back ?

My own observations / thoughts / questions ...

• Slight head cold over last couple of days could be a factor.
• Miles 2-5 were a little fast. Did I overcook it then ? However considering 9:32 is target MP that shouldn't be that bad.
• Did I really nail the clonskeagh drag considering I totally fell apart after them (I think I would have anyway tbh)
• How much will a proper taper effect things. Can I realistically expect enough of an improvement to not be worried.
• Is it normal at this point novice wise to be struggling that much on a 20 mile LSR.
• The last long LSR 2 weeks ago was an 18 miler which went so much better. I could easily have done another 2 onto that. Should I put this down to a bad day and see how the 20 miler in 2 weeks goes ?

The most important question though is do I need to pull target time back now and train accordingly, slow the next LSRs down to a new target + pace etc ?



I would really appreciate the experience / thoughts of the more experienced members on this ! Thanks in advance.

Dub13

I did a handy 14k recovery run this evening @ 6:04 min/km, feel much better after that.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/595940319

Ososlo

Mimojo wrote: »

Just uploaded my Garmin stats, and just as I figured, got slower as I went around rather than faster!!

9:03
9:42
9:43
9:42
9:43
9:31
9:42
9:38
10:06
9:44
10:04
10:30
10:39

So def need to work on this. Average pace was 9:49. My average for the Frank Duffy was 9:11, and the 5 Mile was 8:42 (I am getting slower!!)

20 mile LSR last Saturday was average pace of 11.01.

So for DCM I am thinking somewhere around 10:30, is this a realistic target?

Yes you gotta work on a better pacing strategy for sure! A slower start and easing into the target pace over the first few miles would probably be a better way to go about it.
We'll get down to specifics of target times later in the week. But yes in or around 10:30 should be do-able for you.

bungalow

I feel your pain my last run was like that I even walked. I've been told to go slower.

menoscemo

Correct me if I am wrong P_M, but isn't that the first time you have run 20 miles?
The first 20 miler of any training block is always tough so the first one of your life is going to be doubly hard. I wouldn't go making any decisions yet. I am sure you have another 20 in your programme? If so chances are that one will go a lot better

Pacing Mule

menoscemo wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong P_M, but isn't that the first time you have run 20 miles?
The first 20 miler of any training block is always tough so the first one of your life is going to be doubly hard. I wouldn't go making any decisions yet. I am sure you have another 20 in your programme? If so chances are that one will go a lot better

Yeah Meno - first time ever and another one due in 2 weeks. It was more that it started getting tough after 10 miles that really worried me. 2 weeks back done an 18 miler and finished that off with the fastest mile of the day. Last week done a solid half marathon with a bit at MP and a last mile at nearer 5k pace so I was expecting to be able to take out 20 at a constant easy pace handily enough.

Ososlo

Do you mind me asking PM what your weekly mileage has been like over say the last month?

I remember you having a bad long run a good while ago and then the following week having a great one so it could have been just one of those days.

Also, when you say your legs were really hurting, do you mean sore as in like an injury coming on or just tired?
Are you foam rolling lots?

Firedance

Well done pacing mule! I know you found it tough but big congrats on your first 20 miler. Did you race a HM last week? If so you're bound to be a bit more tired?

Dub13

Today was meant to be my last 20 mile run on the BAA plan, with running the half yesterday I have missed that. I have done 5 runs at 20 mile or over so far in the plan so its not a huge issue. My only slight bit of concearn is having my last big run last Sunday seems a bit far out. I am thinking of turning next weeks run from an 18 miler into a 20. Any issues with this..? Here are the remaining LSR.

Week 12: Long Distance - 15 to 18 miles, running middle 3 miles at marathon pace
Week 13: Long Distance - 14 to 16 easy, long run
Week 14: Long Distance - 12 to 14 miles
Week 15: MLR - 10 miles, steady, easy pace
Week 16: Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Dublin Half Marathon


I finished in 2:23:48 and never stopped after the 3mile pee stop, a last 50 meter sprint before having my knee lock as soon as I stopped running which I knew was on the cards as it also happened after the Frank Duffy.

After the MRI i may finally be willing to admit defeat in my bid for DCM, but hopefully not defeat in my running career which only started in May and has given me loads of fun and just as importantly a chance to eat as much food as I want without getting obese .


Sorry for the long read.

Well what you've achieved so far is pretty amazing considering you only started running in May. It's really no big shock that you're having injury woes. Training for a marathon should be a really slow and gradual process for the body to be able to handle it safely and adapt to what you're putting it through so it's just a case of too much too soon I'm afraid.
The most important thing is that you don't do any damage to yourself and you can have a long running future ahead of you and DCM will be there next year and the year after that and the year after that....
Best of luck and let us know what happens after the MRI.

Pacing Mule

Ososlo wrote: »

Do you mind me asking PM what your weekly mileage has been like over say the last month?

I remember you having a bad long run a good while ago and then the following week having a great one so it could have been just one of those days.

Also, when you say your legs were really hurting, do you mean sore as in like an injury coming on or just tired?
Are you foam rolling lots?

No not at all. Averaging out at 35 to 40 miles depending on the step back parts of the plan.

Yeah I've been a bit inconsistent with the runs. Like I mentioned to Meno above have had 2 great LSRs in the last 2 weeks. This one was poor.

Sore joints wise - hip was feeling it by mile 10 - I kind of put that down to the terrain. Lots of driveways up and down which I'm not used to at all and sweet Jesus that hill down towards Chapleizod is steep !! Knees started to give out a bit later. By the end it was muscular too. Calves were not happy at all - that's a constant for me though. Tight calves have been the root of most of my niggles. Foam rolling quite a bit recently. Had been using "The Stick" but picked up a roller a couple of weeks ago to help out with the achilles in particular.

Pacing Mule

Firedance wrote: »

Well done pacing mule! I know you found it tough but big congrats on your first 20 miler. Did you race a HM last week? If so you're bound to be a bit more tired?

No racing for me unfortunately due to work commitments but I did do an unofficial PB for a half marathon. (It was a very soft PB though from 2 years ago - the PB was done with a few miles at MP and one at 5k pace at the end with the rest easy)

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Today was meant to be my last 20 mile run on the BAA plan, with running the half yesterday I have missed that. I have done 5 runs at 20 mile or over so far in the plan so its not a huge issue. My only slight bit of concearn is having my last big run last Sunday seems a bit far out. I am thinking of turning next weeks run from an 18 miler into a 20. Any issues with this..? Here are the remaining LSR.

Week 12: Long Distance - 15 to 18 miles, running middle 3 miles at marathon pace
Week 13: Long Distance - 14 to 16 easy, long run
Week 14: Long Distance - 12 to 14 miles
Week 15: MLR - 10 miles, steady, easy pace
Week 16: Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles

IMO nothing wrong with turning next week into a 20. I don't think you really need to do another one as you're well covered but if you feel more confident having done it then why not.
We have a 20 in our plan here next weekend too. Well done again on yesterday! How's the body feeling today?
Rest of it sounds perfect.

Ososlo

Pacing Mule wrote: »

No not at all. Averaging out at 35 to 40 miles depending on the step back parts of the plan.

Yeah I've been a bit inconsistent with the runs. Like I mentioned to Meno above have had 2 great LSRs in the last 2 weeks. This one was poor.

Sore joints wise - hip was feeling it by mile 10 - I kind of put that down to the terrain. Lots of driveways up and down which I'm not used to at all and sweet Jesus that hill down towards Chapleizod is steep !! Knees started to give out a bit later. By the end it was muscular too. Calves were not happy at all - that's a constant for me though. Tight calves have been the root of most of my niggles. Foam rolling quite a bit recently. Had been using "The Stick" but picked up a roller a couple of weeks ago to help out with the achilles in particular.

so you're getting a decent amount of miles consistently along with the lsrs.
I'd be going for a sports massage if I was you.
Get in another 20 before you make any final decisions about target pace. Good idea to throw in a few target mp miles towards the end of the run to see what mp feels like on very tired legs.

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

IMO nothing wrong with turning next week into a 20. I don't think you really need to do another one as you're well covered but if you feel more confident having done it then why not.
We have a 20 in our plan here next weekend too. Well done again on yesterday! How's the body feeling today?
Rest of it sounds perfect.

Cheers, for my own peace of mind I think I will do the extra 2 mile next Sun. The body feels grand today, still a little disappointed I held back so much for the hills near the end as I felt grand after the race. I really do think I am more suited to distance running, I did all the race series and felt the worst after the 5 mile.

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Cheers, for my own peace of mind I think I will do the extra 2 mile next Sun. The body feels grand today, still a little disappointed I held back so much for the hills near the end as I felt grand after the race. I really do think I am more suited to distance running, I did all the race series and felt the worst after the 5 mile.

Yeah it was a hard one to pace as you just don't know how much to leave in tank for the damn hills at the end but at least you'll know for next year that you can start to push from further back!
Keep up the great training!

Casey78

Anyone else doing Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 and also done half marathon yesterday?
Today was suppose to be a 20miler but obvs after doing half yesterday I wasn't going to do 20 today.
Next Sunday is only a 12 mile lsr then 20 again the following week which is the last long run before Marathon.
I've already done a 20 mile a few weeks ago on a day that was scheduled for an 18. Is doing only one more enough?
Should I maybe do a 16 or 18 next week then the 20 the following week.
With missing the 20 this week and only doing a 12 next week that will be 3 weeks in a row that I haven't gone above 13 for a long run.

KillianByrne

I fcuking hate foam rolling.

There, I said it.

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

Anyone else doing Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 and also done half marathon yesterday?
Today was suppose to be a 20miler but obvs after doing half yesterday I wasn't going to do 20 today.
Next Sunday is only a 12 mile lsr then 20 again the following week which is the last long run before Marathon.
I've already done a 20 mile a few weeks ago on a day that was scheduled for an 18. Is doing only one more enough?
Should I maybe do a 16 or 18 next week then the 20 the following week.
With missing the 20 this week and only doing a 12 next week that will be 3 weeks in a row that I haven't gone above 13 for a long run.

Yes I think you should do 16-18 next weekend and 20 the weekend after. I advised people to add on warm up and cool down miles yesterday to bring up the daily total so don't know if you did that?
You'll be fine with having done 2 x 20. Our plan has 2 x 20 and Hal has 1 x 20 so I think you'll be well set up.

Ososlo

KillianByrne wrote: »

I fcuking hate foam rolling.

There, I said it.

Ha ha yeah it is a bit of a pain alright. Good to get that off your chest!
How you feeling today about yesterday? Or more to the point, how's the wife dealing with it all?

KillianByrne

Ososlo wrote: »

Ha ha yeah it is a bit of a pain alright. Good to get that off your chest!
How you feeling today about yesterday? Or more to the point, how's the wife dealing with it all?

I'm better both mentally & physically! A jog & a swim helped a lot. Maureen however hurt her back sneezing, so it's taking her much longer than normal to take care of me and do all her normal chores.

Ososlo

KillianByrne wrote: »

I'm better both mentally & physically! A jog & a swim helped a lot. Maureen however hurt her back sneezing, so it's taking her much longer than normal to take care of me and do all her normal chores.

Lol:D Maureen is a saint I'd imagine:D god love her!
Good to hear you're in better spirits today.

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

Great report Mrs! Super pacing there, lovely and consistent.
You ran a very clever race and lovely to finish so strongly and the 'almost' puking is a great sign that you gave it your all.
Well done again, you're setting yourself up nicely for the big one!

Thanks O. I mentioned it in my report and I think a couple of others have touched on it too in recent posts, including you. It's hard to find the balance between going out too fast and blowing up, going too conservatively, keeping something in the tank and knowing when to push on and taking advantage of having a good day! All part of the learning process I guess :eek: still flip flopping over whether to do the athlone 3/4 marathon, will see how I get on over the next week maybe.