DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Firedance

[QUOTE=laura_ac3; still flip flopping over whether to do the athlone 3/4 marathon, will see how I get on over the next week maybe.[/QUOTE]
ooooh do it Laura & you can pass your pacing wisdom on to me at the start line :-)

laura_ac3

Firedance wrote: »

ooooh do it Laura & you can pass your pacing wisdom on to me at the start line :-)

You must have missed my summaries of one or two of my recent LSRs where I must have left this pacing wisdom at home have you signed up?

Laois_Man

Laura I think you should look at your dads video, just so you can observe your running form

I'd like to see a video of myself running......coz just looking at my shadow while I run, I've recently been thinking I must look a bit goofy

Laois_Man

Anyway, did a slow 6 miles tonight (but then all my running is slow).
11:10 pace.
Wanted to go on for another 2 or 3 miles but made myself stop.
Feeling in a little discomfort in both legs - especially in the first half.
Knee is slightly sore after Friday's 20 miles but not too bad.

36 miles for the week - an improvement.

Can anyone recommend anywhere to get a good sports massage in the Carlow area?

Casey78

Laois_Man wrote: »

Laura I think you should look at your dads video, just so you can observe your running form

I'd like to see a video of myself running......coz just looking at my shadow while I run, I've recently been thinking I must look a bit ********

That's not a very nice term to use to be honest,even if you are joking.

Laois_Man

Casey78 wrote: »

That's not a very nice term to use to be honest,even if you are joking.

Sorry - fixed.

Firedance

laura_ac3 wrote: »

You must have missed my summaries of one or two of my recent LSRs where I must have left this pacing wisdom at home have you signed up?

ahhh but you got it right on race day which is all that matters :-) yep I signed up a while ago, hoping there will be lots there doing proper LSR pace close to mine!

frash

Just loaded up my times from Saturday....

1.00 mi 9:7 min/mi
2.00 mi 9:6 min/mi
3.00 mi 9:7 min/mi
4.00 mi 9:12 min/mi
5.00 mi 9:19 min/mi
6.00 mi 9:11 min/mi
7.00 mi 8:53 min/mi
8.00 mi 9:14 min/mi
9.00 mi 9:21 min/mi
10.00 mi 9:24 min/mi
11.00 mi 9:39 min/mi
12.00 mi 9:51 min/mi
13.00 mi 10:17 min/mi

Plan was to keep it around 9:30 to finish in 2:05.
I got a bit carried away at the start (could almost hear Ososlo giving out about me 'shooting my load' too early) but was by & large able to keep that faster pace going for the first 10 miles.

Slowed down a bit then towards the end.

Was running up that last hill thinking I was giving it everything but then someone near me started playing 'Eye of the Tiger' out loud.
I suddenly got a burst of energy and started over-taking people but it only lasted 100 yards so maybe I had given it all at that stage.

Finished in 2:02:41 so faster than my 2:05:00 target & knocked 7 mins of my PB from the Clontarf Half in July.

Hoping to do 20 mile LSR this weekend with 18.5 being my furthest to date.

Joleigh

Casey78 wrote: »

Anyone else doing Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 and also done half marathon yesterday?
Today was suppose to be a 20miler but obvs after doing half yesterday I wasn't going to do 20 today.
Next Sunday is only a 12 mile lsr then 20 again the following week which is the last long run before Marathon.
I've already done a 20 mile a few weeks ago on a day that was scheduled for an 18. Is doing only one more enough?
Should I maybe do a 16 or 18 next week then the 20 the following week.
With missing the 20 this week and only doing a 12 next week that will be 3 weeks in a row that I haven't gone above 13 for a long run.

I'm doing HHI1. I stupidly just looked at the plan. Had it in my head that next weekend is 18 and the following one 20, rather than 12 and 20. I jogged to warm up before the race on sat then walked half way home which brought me to 17.63 miles on my feet but I still don't feel its a substitute for a 20m lsr. And mentally I don't think it would be good for me to only do one 20m. I had planned on making this week 20m (because I thought it was 18 anyway, not 12) and another 20 the following week and then taper.

Also the week before last was a step back week, then with tapering for the half marathon last week, I feel like I've cheated on training a bit! I think I'm gonna try 20 this weekend and do my best to rest, roll and have a few nice bubble baths.

Joleigh

KillianByrne wrote: »

I fcuking hate foam rolling.

There, I said it.

I've learned to hate it a little less. When it hurts I know I'm working out those knots!!

locombia

Great, great race on Saturday. Despite pre race jitters and doubts I managed to secure a PB for myself which I was absolutely delighted with!!! I was aiming for sub 1hr 52 and I came in just on 1hr 49. Thrilled with it especially as I really thought I was going to blow up on the last mile. Huge thanks go out to all three of the 1.50 pacers on the day. This is the first time I've managed to keep up alongside pacers and I have to say I learnt SO MUCH from them. They actually made me aware of how inexperienced I am on the whole area of pacing... Looking back on how I paced the FD 10 mile my pacing is all over the shop!!!

1 9:00.6 1.00 9:01
2 8:57.9 1.00 8:58
3 9:09.9 1.00 9:10
4 8:43.5 1.00 8:44
5 8:17.1 1.00 8:17
6 7:39.4 1.00 7:39
7 7:59.3 1.00 7:59
8 8:01.2 1.00 8:01
9 8:36.2 1.00 8:36
10 8:19.4 1.00 8:19
11 :09.3 0.02 6:41

I got the time I wanted but I think I was way to conservative starting off, had to really pick it up in the middle and then just about made it to the finishing line.

In comparison, my pacing for the half was consistent right through from the start till the end


1 8:33.6 1.00 8:34
2 8:28.2 1.00 8:28
3 8:10.2 1.00 8:10
4 8:14.8 1.00 8:15
5 8:07.1 1.00 8:07
6 8:24.4 1.00 8:24
7 8:12.5 1.00 8:12
8 8:21.2 1.00 8:21
9 8:07.3 1.00 8:07
10 8:11.0 1.00 8:11
11 8:06.6 1.00 8:07
12 8:33.9 1.00 8:34
13 8:32.5 1.00 8:33
14 1:10.8 0.15 7:44


and even though on the day it really felt like I was slowing down by a full minute from mile 11-13 it wasn't really as bad as I thought! This is all thanks to the pacers. Has really open my eyes up to how important pacing is if you want to run a comfortable race and achieve your target time. It also helped that they were friendly and so encouraging and if it hadn't been for them shouting us up Furze road I think I would have plonked myself on the ground and totally given up. So thank you! Great day and roll on the 27th!!! :-) :-) :-)

adrian522

35 Days to go. 5 Weeks.

Most of the work is done at this stage to be honest.

Anyone care to offer some advice on a suggested target time.

My recent race results are as follows:

DLR Bay 10K 0:48:24
Frank Duffy 10 Mile 1:18:58
Dublin Half Marathon 1:42:53

McMillan suggests 3:36:31

Based on a VDOT of 43 Daniels suggests a time of 3:36.

Other calculators I've looked at all give similar (3:36-3:38).

I do realise that a lot of these calculator over estimate potential marathon times so I was just looking for some advice on a realistic target.

Mileage wise I've been doing about 55-60 miles per week with the max being 70 miles.

I was thinking of aiming for around 3:45 or 3:50 on the day, what do you think?

Mimojo

adrian522 wrote: »

35 Days to go. 5 Weeks.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Feels very real now!!

dukeraoul

adrian522 wrote: »

35 Days to go. 5 Weeks.

Most of the work is done at this stage to be honest.

Anyone care to offer some advice on a suggested target time.

My recent race results are as follows:

DLR Bay 10K 0:48:24
Frank Duffy 10 Mile 1:18:58
Dublin Half Marathon 1:42:53

McMillan suggests 3:36:31

Based on a VDOT of 43 Daniels suggests a time of 3:36.

Other calculators I've looked at all give similar (3:36-3:38).

I do realise that a lot of these calculator over estimate potential marathon times so I was just looking for some advice on a realistic target.

Mileage wise I've been doing about 55-60 miles per week with the max being 70 miles.

I was thinking of aiming for around 3:45 or 3:50 on the day, what do you think?

I'd always add 10-15 mins onto a Mcmillan prediction for your first marathon. 3:45-3:50 sounds reasonable enough....

dcorcaigh

adrian522 wrote: »

35 Days to go. 5 Weeks.

Most of the work is done at this stage to be honest.

Anyone care to offer some advice on a suggested target time.

My recent race results are as follows:

DLR Bay 10K 0:48:24
Frank Duffy 10 Mile 1:18:58
Dublin Half Marathon 1:42:53

McMillan suggests 3:36:31

Based on a VDOT of 43 Daniels suggests a time of 3:36.

Other calculators I've looked at all give similar (3:36-3:38).

I do realise that a lot of these calculator over estimate potential marathon times so I was just looking for some advice on a realistic target.

Mileage wise I've been doing about 55-60 miles per week with the max being 70 miles.

I was thinking of aiming for around 3:45 or 3:50 on the day, what do you think?

my times and training are very similar to you Adrian and McMillian has me down for 3:38 but I know I am not at the level yet so I aiming for 3:50. I am doing cork to cobh next weekend and will do it at marathon pace so I should know after that if I can sustain it over the marathon with a proper taper. I did Dublin also last year and Macmillian predicted my time as 4:02 and I did it in 4:19, so I just use those predictors as a guidance more than anything.

johndoe11

Hi,

Being following the boards.ie plan from about week 4. First post to this and also will be my first marathon. Did the Frank Duffy 10 in 1:16:00 and was planning on getting in around 1:42 - 1:43 in the half on Saturday. Had a really strange day, went out at 1:45 pace, and said I'd pick it up in the second half, but wasn't able to pick it up at all, even struggled to maintain 1:45 pace, finished at 1:48. A bit of a knock to the confidence, not sure what to aim for now in Dublin. My Pb for a half is 1:44:50 when i was a lot less fit than I am now. I did a 20 mile run last weekend and was relatively comfortable at 9.05 /mile, maybe it took more out of me than I realised . I'm thinking starting at a 3.50 marathon pace, and see if I can pick it up a bit towards the end.

Corrib man

Hey, don't beat yourself up too much over hm time, everyone gets days like that, dcm 3.50 sounds on for you, is it your first marathon? It really only starts at mile 20/ 21 so see how you feel and go with that. Certainly not easy picking up time towards end of it, as I've found out, going to just TRY to run a steady pace throughout. Best of luck anyway.

johndoe11

Corrib man wrote: »

Hey, don't beat yourself up too much over hm time, everyone gets days like that, dcm 3.50 sounds on for you, is it your first marathon? It really only starts at mile 20/ 21 so see how you feel and go with that. Certainly not easy picking up time towards end of it, as I've found out, going to just TRY to run a steady pace throughout. Best of luck anyway.

Thanks. Yeah first marathon, I'm thinking 3.50 should be grand. I definitely don't want to overestimate my capability and suffer towards the end!

hillsiderunner

I was not able to escape for my easy miles yesterday (my lawn-mowing skills were in demand!), so today my legs were on the stiff side. No danger signs for injuries though. So Sunday's easy miles were delayed (and shortened) to tonight - 5.35 comfortable miles at 9:35 pace, bringing my total for half-marathon week to 35miles.

Well done to all the others that ran DCHM on Saturday, there were some great performances there.

I'm envious of adrian and other people who are in the home stretch. I'm not there yet. Plan for the coming week is to get in around 40miles overall, and 21miles for the LSR.

ChadHogan

dcorcaigh wrote: »

my times and training are very similar to you Adrian and McMillian has me down for 3:38 but I know I am not at the level yet so I aiming for 3:50. I am doing cork to cobh next weekend and will do it at marathon pace so I should know after that if I can sustain it over the marathon with a proper taper. I did Dublin also last year and Macmillian predicted my time as 4:02 and I did it in 4:19, so I just use those predictors as a guidance more than anything.

I remember reading a thread around people's first marathon performance versus target times/predicted times from their previous half marathon. I couldn't find it when I searched. From what I recall those who were most successful in hitting their targets were those who were consistent with their LSRs.

Those who did not hit their targets either did not run enough miles or ran their LSRs too fast and were short of time on their feet.

If you tick both the boxes above I think you can pick the more aggressive of the the two options.

My 10 mile and HM times are similar and I think i'll wait until i get my last two LSRs done before deciding on target time. I have been convinced to go with a pace group by some of the input here, so i'll either aim for 3:50 or 4 hrs

Ososlo

Hi guys
I know you're all eager to start thinking about choosing your target marathon time so I guess we'll get the discussion going.

A lot of people will tell you that you shouldn't worry about a time at all and just go out and enjoy it. I agree to a certain extent, but if you have been training very hard like I was last year then you do want to do your training justice and put in a good effort on the day and get a result you feel you deserve. There's nothing wrong with this at all.
Conversely, there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with just going out there and taking it fairly easy for most of the race and just really enjoying it and soaking up the atmosphere with the sole target of just completing the distance without stopping.
I had to run my first pretty much as a lsr as I hurt my leg the morning of the race and couldn't push things, so I just enjoyed it like a lsr and relished every moment coming home probably 20 minutes slower than I felt I deserved was my realistic target. I was still very happy as I had such a good experience.

So, down to business:
I've been doing some research over the past while about using half marathons to predict your first full marathon times and the general consensus seems to be that you double your time and add between 10 and 20 minutes or double your time and add 10%.

My suggestion would be that if you're very well trained, have been running a few years with fairly consistent training and jumping into a marathon training programme 14 weeks ago was a natural progression of your training and wasn't a huge mammoth task for you, then I'd add 10-12 minutes to double your half time.

If you're relative new to running (running about a year) and if the transition from your normal training at the start of the programme was quite a big jump in terms of mileage, and you're just about hanging on with the plan and lsr, then I'd add 20 minutes plus to ensure you have a good experience and don't blow up on the day.

Here are some calculators and other interesting bits but just to reinforce the point made previously, the predictions with most of these calculators are too ambitious for your first marathon.

The Riegel calculator

Improved Riegel calculator

McMillan calculator

Runners World calculator

Walk, jog, run calculator

Determining Marathon Pace – half marathon time and First marathon goal time. A google doc created by career_move last year which compares some Boardsies' half marathon times with their full marathon times.

So let the fun begin!

Tyrone_03

Although I am not a novice to marathon running I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

I have previously ran DCM in 2009 4.28, London 2012 4.26 and Derry 2013 3.52!

Hoping to get sub 3.45 this year.

First 20 miler on Saturday there in 2.57.

Thanks for all the help folks.

Firedance

I have a rough idea what time id like to come home in but equally am happy to do LSR pace on the day depending on how I'm feeling, as has been said so often we only get one first marathon & I intend to enjoy it, if I survive it (!) I can work on improving times in future marathons :-)

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

I have a rough idea what time id like to come home in but equally am happy to do LSR pace on the day depending on how I'm feeling, as has been said so often we only get one first marathon & I intend to enjoy it, if I survive it (!) I can work on improving times in future marathons :-)

You'll do more than survive it;) You're well trained and have a great attitude. That'll get you home in style:)

Tyrone_03

Running a big city marathon is the only chance for the vast majority of us to feel like proper athletes.

The cheers from the crowds is something special and is absolutely brilliant.

Enjoy the atmosphere and 'high 5' as many kids as you can!

Ososlo

Tyrone_03 wrote: »

Although I am not a novice to marathon running I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

I have previously ran DCM in 2009 4.28, London 2012 4.26 and Derry 2013 3.52!

Hoping to get sub 3.45 this year.

First 20 miler on Saturday there in 2.57.

Thanks for all the help folks.

You're fairly experienced alright compared to some of us:o:o! How's your training been going in the past few months? Confident of the sub 3.45?

Casey78

I've done a 20.2 mile run a few weeks ago in training in 3:20.
I wasn't watching pace so probably could have went a little faster as I was very comfortable throughout the run.
Would a 4:10 marathon be a realistic goal? I've all but given up on sub 4hr

If I do follow the 4:10 pacer how late in the race could I leave it to push on for 4hr if I felt up to it?

Tyrone_03

Ososlo wrote: »

You're fairly experienced alright compared to some of us:o:o! How's your training been going in the past few months? Confident of the sub 3.45?

The training has been going great. I am following the Hal Higdon plan so I have 1 more 20 miler to get done.
Most of my long runs have been with a group of people from my running club which definitely helps.

I did the Great North Run in 1.41 and followed it up last week with a 1.39 half in Derry. I added a few miles on at the end of both races to get the miles in.

Working hard and trying to stay injury free. I am pretty confident of nailing the 3.45 however I am also aware that anything can go wrong on race day.

laura_ac3

Firedance wrote: »

ahhh but you got it right on race day which is all that matters :-) yep I signed up a while ago, hoping there will be lots there doing proper LSR pace close to mine!

Yeah if I do it that's what I'm planning. If you do it at your lsr pace what time-ish would you be out there for? My only 20 miler so far took me just under 4 hours, bit concerned that I could be the last left on the course!!

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

I've done a 20.2 mile run a few weeks ago in training in 3:20.
I wasn't watching pace so probably could have went a little faster as I was very comfortable throughout the run.
Would a 4:10 marathon be a realistic goal? I've all but given up on sub 4hr

If I do follow the 4:10 pacer how late in the race could I leave it to push on for 4hr if I felt up to it?

I'd consider more 4:15 to be honest or 4:20 even, and then you could follow a pacer if you want. 4:10 might just be that little bit aggressive for you to hang on for the whole race.
Your decision of course, that's just my opinion:)
If you do go with 4:10 then I wouldn't push on until 20 miles. Maybe 18 if feeling great.
The race only really starts at 20 miles:)